Nice guys should just accept bachelorhood?

Eve_Dublin

This thread hasn't gone so badly, actually! What a relief!!

cantdecide

One thing I always say to people IRL when they allude to the belief that nice guys finish last is whom they are referring to as persuing. I have often noticed how these guys will approach the, seemingly, most approachable women. Usually the confident, open, friendly, pretty ones [this is my experience-don't write me a letter]. I've often seen them dismiss the ones that appear to be less approachable. It has to be said but the less approachable ones are often the shy ones. Unfortunately, the shy ones, by definition, are the ones that they probably have the best chance of relating to yet they feel these women aren't approachable enough. Personally, I go through bouts of outgoingness and I will approach women to chat. The ones that make me most nervous about approaching are the shy, quiet ones. It's not about standards- it's about knowing your market:D

Wibbs wrote: »

...Other than the actual loopers, the women I've known who've gone through a "bad boy" phase(and luckily it's usually a phase) are most often younger women with little experience of men and especially little experience of actual good men...

Now compare that to the steretypical "nice guy". Tends not to understand social cues, especially in the opposite sex. Tends to not come forward with romantic intentions, hides them(badly) or goes way overboard. Emotionally can be non commital or really bloody scary(I know you an hour lets get married and have babies).

I do feel sorry for some "nice guys". They may actually be nice men underneath, but have missed an important phase in adolescence where you can work this guff out

Age is definitely a critical part of the equation and IMO, the damage can often be done quite young. In all probability it was my particular social circle but I was that guy in my teens that just couldn't get any interest from the girls I knew. However my friends, a bunch of full-on ladies men, went through the girls like wild fire. Jaysus when I think of all the times I had the girls crying on my shoulder. I wasn't out of my teens when I swore I wouldn't be doing this any more. In my teens, I believed 100% that nice guys finish last and for me, at the time, it was true.

I'm older now and I'm still the quiet guy that I was back then but you have no one else to blame but yourself if your mind is still stuck in the same loop years later.

ToddyDoody

There's a balance here. Biological attraction for the sex, personality attraction for enjoying each other's company. Without the latter, the women will have much to bitch and moan about if they have kids (or so I believe)

BraziliaNZ

I've seen it myself where some men have been an "asshole" towards women, to the extent of even insulting them, then later in the night the women are wearing the face off them. It could be some kind of "OMG I have to get him to like me!" thing from the woman, but other women would just think "wanker" and move on.

People are being a bit harsh on these "nice guys" in fairness. Not everyone has the social skills to pick up chicks and you can imagine how frustrated they must get when they see the likes of the above happening.

Nice guys - just try to be more comfortable in your skin, accept yourself, try to realise that women have very similar minds and views to you, they're not all that different (don't quote me on that). They're not going to want to f*ck you if you're bitter about the type of men some women are attracted to. And if you're not getting any, just deal with it, try and find something else to fulfill your life. That in itself makes you a better catch.

Either that or online dating and salsa dancing, the boards solution to everything, from cancer to loneliness!

Pherekydes

bluewolf wrote: »

All men are thick.

Only from your POV. :pac:

smash

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I've seen it myself where some men have been an "asshole" towards women, to the extent of even insulting them, then later in the night the women are wearing the face off them.

I heard a theory that you can easily manipulate someone by talking to them and throwing in the odd subtle insult, like telling them you thought they were older than they were etc. but you brush past it and keep talking. This knocks their confidence but you're still talking to them so while they feel sh!tty about themselves, they see you're still talking to them so they they'll go for you. Never tried it myself.

AnonoBoy

Too many people equate being 'nice' with not getting the girl. There's plenty of decent guys who have loads of success.

There's also plenty of asswipes who think they use this 'nice guys finish last' thinking to try to justify them being d*ckheads all the time.

I'm not an arsehole to women and I've had decent success with women.

But then again I'm stunningly handsome.

Gummy Panda

bluewolf wrote: »

All men are thick.

That's the way women want us. Thick and big

MaxSteele

To the posters referring to these "bad boys", what do you mean by that ? Cocky d*ckhead who turns into a mouse when by himself or when the boys aren't there with him ?

Seriously I have never once heard anyone I know or any of my mates come out with this attitude that "nice guys" finish last or women go for "bad boys". This thread is beginning to sound like an american teen soap.

BraziliaNZ

MaxSteele wrote: »

To the posters referring to these "bad boys", what do you mean by that ? Cocky d*ckhead who turns into a mouse when by himself or when the boys aren't there with him ?

A bad ass, lives by his own rules, doesn't care what anyone else thinks. He doesn't try to be a bad ass, he just simply is one.

A badass is not a jerk. A badass does not prey on the weak, and shows kindness in return to those who are kind.

Thank you urbandictionary.

Blisterman

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I've seen it myself where some men have been an "asshole" towards women, to the extent of even insulting them, then later in the night the women are wearing the face off them. It could be some kind of "OMG I have to get him to like me!" thing from the woman, but other women would just think "wanker" and move on.

I suspect, what you saw as him insulting her, was actually flirting or playful banter.

mariaalice

I have been on boards for 6 years or so and there are literally hundreds of threads similar to the one above they are all variants on a them.

Meeting someone and forming a relationship, I think most of it is random and chance and only a small amount of it is who your are....

Nice guys...I have a good friends who is getting married next year to a very nice guy she is in her thirties they got together not because she took a chance on a nice guy, they got together because she was attracted to him its as simple as that.

Looking around me so far I can figure out from looking at my siblings, wider family, friends, and people I work with, the vast majority end up in a significant relationship with someone its about a ratio of 9 to 1

As for the other variant on this them....woman are only interested in the status of the man...its human natuer...its not that a woman would not get in to relationship with someone who is unemployed its more the kind of unemployed you are..there is a big different between being long therm unemployed, with no education or direction in your life v being an unemployed architect or civil engineer.

Keep in mind the vast majority of people do end up in a significant longterm relationship and even if you don't its far better to be single in 2012 than it would have ever been in the past.

Scanlas The 2nd

mariaalice wrote: »

I have been on boards for 6 years or so and there are literally hundreds of threads similar to the one above they are all variants on a them.

Meeting someone and forming a relationship, I think most of it is random and chance and only a small amount of it is who your are....

Nice guys...I have a good friends who is getting married next year to a very nice guy she is in her thirties they got together not because she took a chance on a nice guy, they got together because she was attracted to him its as simple as that.

Looking around me so far I can figure out from looking at my siblings, wider family, friends, and people I work with, the vast majority end up in a significant relationship with someone its about a ratio of 9 to 1

As for the other variant on this them....woman are only interested in the status of the man...its human natuer...its not that a woman would not get in to relationship with someone who is unemployed its more the kind of unemployed you are..there is a big different between being long therm unemployed, with no education or direction in your life v being an unemployed architect or civil engineer.

Keep in mind the vast majority of people do end up in a significant longterm relationship and even if you don't its far better to be single in 2012 than it would have ever been in the past.

Don't forget people who end up in a relationship with partners who they aren't fully attracted to. I'd say most men would be with different women if they had the ability to get their 1st choice.

3qsmavrod5twfe

Funnily, the good looking "nice guys" aren't resigned to eternal bachelorhood.

cantdecide

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Don't forget people who end up in a relationship with partners who they aren't fully attracted to. I'd say most men would be with different women if they had the ability to get their 1st choice.

Is attraction everything now? I'd say an awful amount of people, male and female, are in relationships that are doomed because there's tons of attraction and feck all else. Attraction is just a piece of the puzzle or a prerequisite at best...

pickarooney

beks101 wrote: »

The fact is, most ladies like assertive, confident, forward guys. Guys who aren't afraid to express how they feel, take the bull by the horns and flirt with you, initiate physical contact, kiss you, WITHOUT over-stepping boundaries or coming on too strong too soon - this requires good body language, an ability to flirt and to read social cues.

The nice guy, confident chap, bad boy and absolute arsehole are usually just one step to either side of that thin and ever-moving line. I don't really envy those who aren't blessed with the ability to sense where that is.

cantdecide

Avalyn Gray Floor wrote: »

Funnily, the good looking "nice guys" aren't resigned to eternal bachelorhood.

Natural good looks are an unfair advantage, IMO. It's the exception not the rule. Of everything that's been discussed, your own good looks, or lack of, are something you can do schyte all about. The only thing you can control on this issue is to keep presenting yourself in the best way possible. If you don't have looks on your side, just make sure you are doing everything you can to put your best foot forward. You could walk down the street today and meet people who would give anything for what you are taking for granted.

cantdecide

cantdecide wrote: »

Is attraction everything now? I'd say an awful amount of people, male and female, are in relationships that are doomed because there's tons of attraction and feck all else. Attraction is just a piece of the puzzle or a prerequisite at best...

Attraction is just a good place to start: what happens next depends on what else you both bring to the party.

whiterob81

I'm a nice guy who's married with a kid so **** all y'all


YOLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!!!!!!!

whiterob81

But seriously I think the the whole thing of "Women only like bastards" is nonsense. It pretty much equates with the whole "All men are bastards" mindset. It generally comes from people who can't see their own shortcomings. Put it like this, if you're not able to maintain a relationship with any man/woman, maybe the problem isn't with all men\women.

Clarehobo

smash wrote: »

I heard a theory that you can easily manipulate someone by talking to them and throwing in the odd subtle insult, like telling them you thought they were older than they were etc. but you brush past it and keep talking. This knocks their confidence but you're still talking to them so while they feel sh!tty about themselves, they see you're still talking to them so they they'll go for you. Never tried it myself.

Did I meet you the other night????
lol - seriously, it doesn't work. Give up if that is your go to approach:P
Met a 'nice' guy the other night that must have been attempting that technique or else he had foot in mouth disease. Needless to say, he got shot down.

Scanlas The 2nd

whiterob81 wrote: »

I'm a nice guy who's married with a kid so **** all y'all


[SIZE="7"]YOLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!!!!!!![/SIZE]

The OP will tell you it's not yours, some alpha male is the Father.

Scanlas The 2nd

Clarehobo wrote: »

Did I meet you the other night????
lol - seriously, it doesn't work. Give up if that is your go to approach:P
Met a 'nice' guy the other night that must have been attempting that technique or else he had foot in mouth disease. Needless to say, he got shot down.

What did he say?

Grayson

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I know you're not saying all women like bad boys but do you (and everyone else on the thread) think that enough women "like bad boys" enough for it to be a stereotype? I really don't think so. I don't think I know any women who deliberately got with a "bad boy" and thought they could change him. Actually, I don't think I know any women who deliberately were attracted to a "bad boy" at all. I definitely know women who have been with d1ckheads but they, unfortunately, found that out at a later stage; it wasn't something that initially attracted them.


The whole "women are attracted to bad boys" thing just makes me cringe. Even typing it...it's such a cheesy generalisation.

having skipped to the end of the thread...

....But I think you're missing his point. He's saying that women are attracted to confidence etc... and that dickheads tend to have those qualities.

The women aren't attracted to them because they're dickheads. They might not even be aware of their dickheadness when they are attracted to them.

Clarehobo

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What did he say?

Ah the over-estimating the age thing and that I was very blunt etc... Just trying to knock my confidence.

Then he proceeded to spend the next few hours chatting to me before finally trying it on - I got out of it relatively unscathed.

Long story short, he was either trying to play me or he was genuinely an insulting baxtard!

Dolbert

Clarehobo wrote: »

Ah the over-estimating the age thing and that I was very blunt etc... Just trying to knock my confidence.

Then he proceeded to spend the next few hours chatting to me before finally trying it on - I got out of it relatively unscathed.

Long story short, he was either trying to play me or he was genuinely an insulting baxtard!

Sounds like he was 'negging' - aka sad bastard PUA technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTE-ig7NhY

Ando's Saggy Bottom

A different form of the "nice guy" is the weaselly little bloke who's had his chance and blew it with a bird but still hovers around for years on the off- chance she might suddenly realise he's the one for her, waiting to swoop in to be a shoulder to cry on when she has a row with her actual boyfriend.

Any man who'd have the lack of self respect to keep in doing that needs a good boot up the hole.

Daveysil15

Avalyn Gray Floor wrote: »

Funnily, the good looking "nice guys" aren't resigned to eternal bachelorhood.

Just like the good looking PUA's. Take a look at any of the PUA guru's who give seminars and make videos for Youtube. They wouldn't exactly be minging. A 30 stone man walking onto a stage to give advice on how to approach women wouldn't be very believable.

Scanlas The 2nd

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Just like the good looking PUA's. Take a look at any of the PUA guru's who give seminars and make videos for Youtube. They wouldn't exactly be minging. A 30 stone man walking onto a stage to give advice on how to approach women wouldn't be very believable.

There's loads of ugly ones, one guy only has one arm.

This guy is hardly good looking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1JDOkL1330&sns=em

Daveysil15

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

There's loads of ugly ones, one guy only has one arm.

This guy is hardly good looking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1JDOkL1330&sns=em[/QUOTE]

He's hardly ugly either though, although I suppose its all subjective.

Millicent

DenMan wrote: »

WTF!!! You have far too much time on your hands. That post sounds like something written by a machine after sifting through gossip and relationship magazines. It’s like a published article without any feeling to it! Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her, it’s the challenge that keeps her focused. The idea of a nice guy ticks all the boxes as he will just roll over and allow himself to be dominated by a woman and after a while she will tire of him and be bored of his submissiveness. He’s too weak and that’s not what anybody wants in a relationship. There’s no teasing, no surprises and the unexpected doesn’t exist, and the sex may be boring! Nice guys are good but they are timid and will roll over too easy. Women want to be protected and a bad boy is more honest and upfront!

Or, you know, some of us have hobbies. I want a boyfriend, not a project.

newmug

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

You mis-understand my friend. The term "nice guy" is an Americanism, a phrase. It was well described in a previous post, the one with the urban-dictionary link. It DOESNT mean someone who is a sound bloke. I'd be an "alpha" male stereotype, but I can assure you I'm nice.

Eve_Dublin

Avalyn Gray Floor wrote: »

Funnily, the good looking "nice guys" aren't resigned to eternal bachelorhood.

Funnily? Why? It makes perfect sense. I'm going out with one. *smug smile*.

Madam_X

I love the claims that a woman resembling Jabba The Hud would get a ride in five minutes. Even if she did, it would be either a practical joke or extreme drunkenness, and she's hardly going to get a living relationship out of it - probably just ridicule, so she'd be better off not having that shag.

And finding good-looking people more attractive - oh how unreasonable, and clearly women have the monopoly on that of course...

BBDBB

come on, its shag or raid the fridge, of course she's better off

1ZRed

Do people actually sit down and listen to these sad bastards? I watched the beginning few seconds of that video and he started off with "yo, yo, yo" and goes on to give you tips for the "game". Seriously, that's how they see going out and pulling, as a game with tactics and pre-thought out techniques?

That's hardly a normal mindset, in fact I'd say it was fecking sad. Reminds me of all the lads who go out mad for the ride telling everyone and their granny about how they'll pull tonight and they've got all the techniques in place. They rarely end up living up to the promise and if they do, a lot end up settling for some desperate wan at 1:50.

I never saw the point of looking at going out as a strange hunting game purely to get the ride and trying every single person until one agrees. I'd rather have a laugh and a bit of craic with my mates and go meeting new people primarily, and if things go good and leads onto more then great, if not, I've had a good time and enjoyed myself anyways so nothing lost.

In fairness, I've noticed when you're just out, being comfortable and having the laugh instead of standing at the bar eyeing up girls and approaching them one by one, you'll do a lot better.

I think it just looks better if you're actually there to have a good time. I know I'd find it more attractive if someone was there for that same reason instead of only interacting with a girl/guy in hopes of getting in their pants.

Nailin4Whales

Millicent wrote: »

Or, you know, some of us have hobbies. I want a boyfriend, not a project.

Its amazing how many people don't have hobbies and try to fill it with drama instead. Also TV+Facebook+Twitter+Youtub don't count as hobbies.

Scanlas The 2nd

1ZRed wrote: »

Do people actually sit down and listen to these sad bastards? I watched the beginning few seconds of that video and he started off with "yo, yo, yo" and goes on to give you tips for the "game". Seriously, that's how they see going out and pulling, as a game with tactics and pre-thought out techniques?

That's hardly a normal mindset, in fact I'd say it was fecking sad. Reminds me of all the lads who go out mad for the ride telling everyone and their granny about how they'll pull tonight and they've got all the techniques in place. They rarely end up living up to the promise and if they do, a lot end up settling for some desperate wan at 1:50.

I never saw the point of looking at going out as a strange hunting game purely to get the ride and trying every single person until one agrees. I'd rather have a laugh and a bit of craic with my mates and go meeting new people primarily, and if things go good and leads onto more then great, if not, I've had a good time and enjoyed myself anyways so nothing lost.

In fairness, I've noticed when you're just out, being comfortable and having the laugh instead of standing at the bar eyeing up girls and approaching them one by one, you'll do a lot better.

I think it just looks better if you're actually there to have a good time. I know I'd find it more attractive if someone was there for that same reason instead of only interacting with a girl/guy in hopes of getting in their pants.

That's great but if you're crap with women that is a huge part of your life that is suffering. Why not seek to improve it? Is it sad wanting to get fitter and healthier? Is it said wanting to improve your employment prospects? Watch the whole video and then judge it.

Wibbs

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

That's great but if you're crap with women that is a huge part of your life that is suffering. Why not seek to improve it? Is it sad wanting to get fitter and healthier? Is it said wanting to improve your employment prospects? Watch the whole video and then judge it.

That's fine and dandy, but "Jeffy" in the vid is a pretty good looking well built man. He's not a munter anyway. Getting women should not be a problem for him unless he doesn't wash for a month. It's about as useful as a video instruction manual with Scarlett Johansson describing how easy it is to get a man. Show me a PUA video with Danny DeVito and then I might think differently. Though old Danny seems to be an actual nice guy so the fecker probably had his fair share before he got hitched.


EDIT To be fair to "Jeffy" outside the 'Merkin Sales BS and PUA jargon some of what he says has merit, however the sales BS and PUA jargon queers the deal for me.

BraziliaNZ

1ZRed wrote: »

I never saw the point of looking at going out as a strange hunting game purely to get the ride and trying every single person until one agrees. I'd rather have a laugh and a bit of craic with my mates and go meeting new people primarily, and if things go good and leads onto more then great, if not, I've had a good time and enjoyed myself anyways so nothing lost.

What if they're doing that for years on end and are just tired of it, and their mates have settled down and they live in a studio apartment and their chances of meeting people seem to become slimmer and slimmer? Should those people not be actively seeking out a partner?
Not talking about myself here of course, cough!

Zillah

whiterob81 wrote: »

But seriously I think the the whole thing of "Women only like bastards" is nonsense. It pretty much equates with the whole "All men are bastards" mindset. It generally comes from people who can't see their own shortcomings. Put it like this, if you're not able to maintain a relationship with any man/woman, maybe the problem isn't with all men\women.

Anytime I hear a guy complaining that girls don't like "nice guys" I always want to sit down with them and explain that there is a difference between being a decent person and being a spineless doormat. If you let people walk all over you and don't stand up for yourself and your opinions, you're not a "nice guy", you're a faceless push-over. People admire strength. You can be strong and nice.

That's not even touching on any other reasons people not be going for them.

kowloon

DenMan wrote: »

WTF!!! You have far too much time on your hands. That post sounds like something written by a machine after sifting through gossip and relationship magazines.

Wibbs is a machine, and it's learning, learning our weaknesses.

Handsome Bob

Madam_X wrote: »

I love the claims that a woman resembling Jabba The Hud would get a ride in five minutes. Even if she did, it would be either a practical joke or extreme drunkenness, and she's hardly going to get a living relationship out of it - probably just ridicule, so she'd be better off not having that shag.

And finding good-looking people more attractive - oh how unreasonable, and clearly women have the monopoly on that of course...

Self worth is worth way more than what's likely to be a quick and disappointing experience, though I do find your attitude slightly cynical.

the_syco

kowloon wrote: »

Wibbs is a machine, and it's learning, learning our weaknesses.

I had to quote this

dd972

I've always been non plussed by these blokes who've no social skills, no sense of humour, no mates, no conversational abilities, no obvious looks or dress sense,no interest in music, films, sport etc, never go out for a drink in a pub etc, etc


....yet still blag themselves a missus / gf and knock out kids

.......how do they hook up ?

TeddyTedson

1ZRed wrote: »

The more threads of this I see the more I start to think 'nice guys' are fucking whiners, at least the very vocal ones that bitch and complain women only want assholes and feel so hard done by it all.

It's of course bullshit. Nobody wants to end up with an asshole but there is a thing as being too much of a pushover and overly nice with no sense of messing around -that's not attractive.

I think a lot of these guys that complain need to learn to just get on with it and stop obsessing about what women want and how they should get so much attention because they're "so nice" and just enjoy themselves in the meantime.

Well said

BBDBB

dd972 wrote: »

I've always been non plussed by these blokes who've no social skills, no sense of humour, no mates, no conversational abilities, no obvious looks or dress sense,no interest in music, films, sport etc, never go out for a drink in a pub etc, etc


....yet still blag themselves a missus / gf and knock out kids

.......how do they hook up ?

rohypnol

"Nice Guys" do most of the damage to their own chances themselves. This insistence on putting everyone into boxes and then declaring one whole box (women in general in this case it seems) do not like one whole other box into which you have put yourself (in this case "nice" guys") is poor and ones lack of chances with such women is all in ones own mind.

And all that is before one looks into whether all these self proclaimed "nice" guys actually are. What are their standardards of what constitutes "nice" and how have they so readily judged themselves to fit them? I certainly know that any one who goes around declaring how great and nice they find themselves to be are not likely to be on my radar for relationship material.

To me the only way to approach relationships and potential participants in relationships with me is to treat each and every one of them as the individuals they actually are and see where it goes from there.

It is therefore not "nice" guys who should just give up and accept bachelorhood in my opinion but sweeping generalisationists who have in their own head defined and declared themselves to be out of the game before they even begin.

I certainly know I would not be in the relationship living with the girls I am today if I had subscribed to - and wasted time on - notions of how nice I found myself to be or what "league" I thought I or they were in. Instead I approached them as individuals and as an individual myself and waited to see what would come of it.

smash

Clarehobo wrote: »

Did I meet you the other night????
lol - seriously, it doesn't work. Give up if that is your go to approach:P
Met a 'nice' guy the other night that must have been attempting that technique or else he had foot in mouth disease. Needless to say, he got shot down.

Hey, I didn't say I do it. But since writing the post I found out it was in a book written by one of the Rolling Stones or something. Apparantly Russell brand lives by it. And he's ugly so it must work

Scanlas The 2nd

smash wrote: »

Hey, I didn't say I do it. But since writing the post I found out it was in a book written by one of the Rolling Stones or something. Apparantly Russell brand lives by it. And he's ugly so it must work

The purpose of the comment or action is to signal subtly to a woman who believes she is out of your league that you aren't interested in her without being rude. It can cause these women to chase your validation.