Nice guys should just accept bachelorhood?

Scanlas The 2nd

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I've had plenty of girlfriends etc, but honestly I can't remember seeing a girl I thought was hot, walking over and trying to talk to her. It has just kind of happened, I've never launched myself like that on total strangers.

I certainly have and it's one of my favourite things to do also I've been approached myself numerous times. My point was directed towards people who don't meet the opposite sex and also do nothing about it yet think they are entitled to meet to have sex and relationships.

BraziliaNZ

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I certainly have and it's one of my favourite things to do also I've been approached myself numerous times. My point was directed towards people who don't meet the opposite sex and also do nothing about it yet think they are entitled to meet to have sex and relationships.

What I mean is, for these down on their luck sorts, there are more ways than approaching total strangers. I've never really been into it and met people through just living my life I suppose.

Scanlas The 2nd

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

What I mean is, for these down on their luck sorts, there are more ways than approaching total strangers. I've never really been into it and met people through just living my life I suppose.

Of course there's numerous ways so long as they actually make the effort.

curlzy

I'm engaged to typical MR NICE GUY. He loves kittens/puppies/kids, has never raised his fist to ANYONE, always turns the other cheek. Is relaxed and level headed and constantly in a good mood and would do anything for a friend in need. Regularly gives to charity.

Why? . . . Demon in the sack :D:D.

Nice Guys don't finish last, that myth is total bullsh*t made up by bitter people that want a simple reason they have been constantly passed over, I'd bet any money they're not the Nice Guy they claim to be.

cantdecide

I'm glad to see there's a lot of people here with no hang-ups or shyness and I now regard myself as being in that category. Am I afraid to approach women in social settings? Not a bit! Am I a nice guy? Yes! Do I get the time of day? Feck no!! Some of us just don't fit in with the profile of the pub/ club scene...

Scanlas The 2nd

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm glad to see there's a lot of people here with no hang-ups or shyness and I now regard myself as being in that category. Am I afraid to approach women in social settings? Not a bit! Am I a nice guy? Yes! Do I get the time of day? Feck no!! Some of us just don't fit in with the profile of the pub/ club scene...

It's not you that doesn't fit in, it's what you don in that scene doesn't fit in.

cantdecide

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

It's not you that doesn't fit in, it's what you don in that scene doesn't fit in.

Explain...

Scanlas The 2nd

cantdecide wrote: »

Explain...

I bet you could be successful in the pub/club scene as could most if you changed the way you behave in these places. As could most guys.

I'd be willing to bet that you feel "in your head" in these places. Not relaxed in the moment. That can be changed and you'd learn to have your own fun in these places, this draws people to you.

Brain Stroking

curlzy wrote: »

I'm engaged to typical MR NICE GUY. He loves kittens/puppies/kids, has never raised his fist to ANYONE, always turns the other cheek. Is relaxed and level headed and constantly in a good mood and would do anything for a friend in need. Regularly gives to charity.

Why? . . . Demon in the sack :D:D.

Nice Guys don't finish last, that myth is total bullsh*t made up by bitter people that want a simple reason they have been constantly passed over, I'd bet any money they're not the Nice Guy they claim to be.

So if he was just average in the sack he wouldnt be with you? You seem to be implying that you're with him despite his niceness because he is good in bed.

cantdecide

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'd be willing to bet that you feel "in your head" in these places. Not relaxed in the moment. That can be changed and you'd learn to have your own fun in these places, this draws people to you.

This might well be the crux of the issue; I will firstly say that I'm perfectly relaxed in these environments but they are not where I am most able to be myself. I don't regard "having your own fun" as being fun!! Engaging, chatting and exchanging experiences and ideas is what's fun to me.

It is a societal expectation that I have to play a character or adopt a persona if I wish to be successful and I'm probably not interested in someone who will expect me to be something other than what I am. Becoming this character doesn't fall under the category of self improvement so I feel it's a waste of energy, EVEN IF I could pull it off and be that person, which is something I probably couldn't do. It's just a bridge too far for some of us to be that person.

The reality is that this is a major disadvantage to me and anyone like me and I can pucker about it all day long if I want but it has been a stalemate to me my whole life. Be myself and get nowhere or be some pseudo version of myself that I probably can't even pull off and probably still get nowhere as a consequence.

curlzy

Brain Stroking wrote: »

So if he was just average in the sack he wouldnt be with you? You seem to be implying that you're with him despite his niceness because he is good in bed.

No dearie. If he wasn't a demon in the sack I wouldn't be with him, life is too short to go without explosive orgasms.

I'm not with him despite his niceness, and because he's good in bed. I'm with him because of his niceness, he's a wonderful, kind and generous person and also happens to be kinky as all hell and knows how to blow my mind in the bedroom. I found Mr Nice Guy and a sex god in one, hurray

You seem to be clutching at straws. Can you not get any? : (

Scanlas The 2nd

cantdecide wrote: »

This might well be the crux of the issue; I will firstly say that I'm perfectly relaxed in these environments but they are not where I am most able to be myself. I don't regard "having your own fun" as being fun!! Engaging, chatting and exchanging experiences and ideas is what's fun to me.

It is a societal expectation that I have to play a character or adopt a persona if I wish to be successful and I'm probably not interested in someone who will expect me to be something other than what I am. Becoming this character doesn't fall under the category of self improvement so I feel it's a waste of energy, EVEN IF I could pull it off and be that person, which is something I probably couldn't do. It's just a bridge too far for some of us to be that person.

The reality is that this is a major disadvantage to me and anyone like me and I can pucker about it all day long if I want but it has been a stalemate to me my whole life. Be myself and get nowhere or be some pseudo version of myself that I probably can't even pull off and probably still get nowhere as a consequence.

Why do you feel you need to play a character in pubs/clubs?

That could be the issue, you don't realise you can be yourself and do well. Be yourself and be playful and have fun and have a laugh.

StudentDad

For me it's plain and simple if you go to a meat market (pubs/clubs) you will be expected to behave like 'you're on the market.' If that is the expected norm well you can't complain if there are no 'buyers' - male or female.

SD

dttq

creeper1 wrote: »

Word of wisdom from a audio-blogger.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61_R2X3Pr1I

He discusses the well known fact that women aren't attracted to nice guys. There are many reasons for this. Ranging from nice guys being too boring to not being like alpha males.

We are more like animals that we realise IMHO. In a animal environment it is only the alpha male. The baddest, strongest, most attitude filled stag that gets mating rights to all the females.

And if any of the other stags have the audacity to try to mate with females the alpha male will come and stick horns up his ass! Or murder the poor sod!!

The worst of the worst is the nice guy that takes care of the baby fathered by another man. Darwin (and me) would be disgusted by you.

So is bachelorhood a better options for nice guys. In my opinion it probably is. There are women that can paid to satisfy your needs. Way preferable to supporting to the child of another.

Is this another American male trying to fob oftinis books/ DVDs or whatever else on unsuspecting and gullible single males?

"Hey guys, are you tired of women never giving you the time of day? Well guys I have the answer you've been wanting answered in my book at Amazon. Youre single because you've been too damn nice, women hate that sort of thing! In my book I discuss how you too can become the loud, obnoxious, mean, sexist and abusive guy that women just can't get enough of.

In my book I give some valuable tips such as

(a) To be successful you need to lose the nice guy stuff. Next chick you meet in a nightclub, simply slap her on the ar$e and as loud as you can shout "you, me, my bed now"........she'll be so enamoured by your bad boy approach that she will fall for you on the spot.

(b) When she asks questions like "does my bum look big in this" don't be the pussy whipped nice guy, explain to her "yeah dear your arse is bigger than a gorrilas, cut down on the big macs. She will appreciate your brutal honesty and bad boy tell-it-like-it-is

(c) Women just love testing guys and respect guys who stand up them, and just HATE non-confratational nice guys. So next time she says she isn't in the mood to make dinner, don't just be the nice guy with "an ok honey". Give her a few slaps and she'll be running to the kitchen to whip up a big hearty meal. Because she is tired of all these walk over, non-slapping nice guys, she'll appreciate the fact that you aren't taking any nonsense from her.


And plenty more tips on how to break the nice guy deadlock. Buy my book and it won't be you looking for chicks anymore, you'll have chicks falling at your feet.

cantdecide

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I bet you could be successful in the pub/club scene as could most if you changed the way you behave in these places.

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

you don't realise you can be yourself and do well. Be yourself and be playful and have fun and have a laugh.

All of this, I do. Some of just don't do playful-banter-while-shaking-your-arse all that well. My nature is to be a bit of a wall flower but I am a friendly and personable and confident but hell, I just don't get the benefit of the doubt with strangers. I think when you're 6'4" with a shaved head, you're just a goal down before you open your mouth. I find when I'm introduced to women, it's a different story but when I introduce myself, I get nowhere. It's not an insurmountable problem but there is no one size fits all solution. Everyone is different.

blacklilly wrote: »

I have done in the past but not in recent years

I'm calling you on this, BL:P Explain why you you don't approach guys in the present:P

blacklilly

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Why do you feel you need to play a character in pubs/clubs?

That could be the issue, you don't realise you can be yourself and do well. Be yourself and be playful and have fun and have a laugh.

I don't think its as much about feeling the need to play a character its more that not everyone feels completely comfortable in a pub setting.
A lot of people depend on alcohol to make them feel comfortable. I know when I'm not drinking i don't tend to feel totally comfortable in a pub setting because I'm surrounded by people under the influence. I also don't particularly like being chatted up by men that are under the influence either and I can find the whole scene a little unnerving

blacklilly

cantdecide wrote: »

All of this, I do. Some of just don't do playful-banter-while-shaking-your-arse all that well. My nature is to be a bit of a wall flower but I am a friendly and personable and confident but hell, I just don't get the benefit of the doubt with strangers. I think when you're 6'4" with a shaved head, you're just a goal down before you open your mouth. I find when I'm introduced to women, it's a different story but when I introduce myself, I get nowhere. It's not an insurmountable problem but there is no one size fits all solution. Everyone is different.



I'm calling you on this, BL:P Explain why you you don't approach guys in the present:P

Emmmm I've no excuse really but if I'm totally honest I guess its to do with a lack of confidence, I get too in my head and think that no guy will find me attractive

dd972

the older I get, the more convinced I am that random, arbitrary luck decides who gets hitched and who doesn't.

there are loads of attractive, educated, men and women who are seemingly stuck in a void of involuntary celibacy and singleton status despite all their efforts to change this with dating websites, trying to meet people through people, getting rat arsed in meat markets like Coppers to try and tempt fate and nudge Cupid's arrows.

then there are millions of boring, mediocrities who get ''the one'' parachuted into their laps via school, college, workplaces, mutual friends etc

then of course, not to forget, there are those who marry, have kids, buy houses and 6 months or 8 years later, it's been the worst single thing that's ever happened to them.

Scanlas The 2nd

cantdecide wrote: »

All of this, I do. Some of just don't do playful-banter-while-shaking-your-arse all that well. My nature is to be a bit of a wall flower but I am a friendly and personable and confident but hell, I just don't get the benefit of the doubt with strangers. I think when you're 6'4" with a shaved head, you're just a goal down before you open your mouth. I find when I'm introduced to women, it's a different story but when I introduce myself, I get nowhere. It's not an insurmountable problem but there is no one size fits all solution. Everyone is different.



I'm calling you on this, BL:P Explain why you you don't approach guys in the present:P

There's lots of ways you can improve how you approach women but I'd have to see and hear you to help out in a meaningful way. The problem could be as simple as not smiling when approaching or moving around and being too fidgety. When you expect people to be friendly there is a greater chance they'll be friendly in return.

Galwayguy35

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

There's lots of ways you can improve how you approach women but I'd have to see and hear you to help out in a meaningful way. The problem could be as simple as not smiling when approaching or moving around and being too fidgety. When you expect people to be friendly there is a greater chance they'll be friendly in return.

Why should he change anything about himself though?

If someone isn't interested it's best to move on and find someone who is.

curlzy

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

There's lots of ways you can improve how you approach women but I'd have to see and hear you to help out in a meaningful way. The problem could be as simple as not smiling when approaching or moving around and being too fidgety. When you expect people to be friendly there is a greater chance they'll be friendly in return.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why should he change anything about himself though?

If someone isn't interested it's best to move on and find someone who is.

S/he didn't say anything about him changing himself. S/he said he can change his approach to women, those are two totally different things.

Scanlas The 2nd

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why should he change anything about himself though?

If someone isn't interested it's best to move on and find someone who is.

Because they are simple habits he can change to lead a more enjoyable life. If someone thinks walking slouched looking at the ground is intrinsically a part of them they are mistaken. Walking with your head held up will command more respect. These are just habits, we aren't are habits. They can be changed.

No one has to change any of these things of course, but if they lead to a more satisfying life why wouldn't you.

Galwayguy35

curlzy wrote: »

S/he didn't say anything about him changing himself. S/he said he can change his approach to women, those are two totally different things.

If someone is interested they will respond, if not then it really doesn't make any difference what way someone approaches them IMO.

Just to add I obviously don't mean trying to chat someone up while pissed drunk.

Scanlas The 2nd

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If someone is interested they will respond, if not then it really doesn't make any difference what way someone approaches them IMO.

Just to add I obviously don't mean trying to chat someone up while pissed drunk.

I can tell you from experience how you approach is hugely important. There were women who I was with who wouldn't have been with me if I approached in a different way. Experiment for yourself if you don't believe me. Approach 10 women/goups while shifting around in your feet and fidgeting then approach 10 where you plant your feet and put your hands in your back pocket. That's just one variable. One more to experiment with would be to speak slower with pauses and removing filler words such as "you know", um, ehh etc. or nervous laughter versus the opposite. The difference is massive.

Galwayguy35

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I can tell you from experience how you approach is hugely important. There were women who I was with who wouldn't have been with me if I approached in a different way. Experiment for yourself if you don't believe me. Approach 10 women/goups while shifting around in your feet and fidgeting then approach 10 where you plant your feet and put your hands in your back pocket. That's just one variable. One more to experiment with would be to speak slower with pauses and removing filler words such as "you know", um, ehh etc. or nervous laughter versus the opposite. The difference is massive.

I do see where you are coming from on this, I just don't see why I should have to try to "impress" someone that catches my eye in a pub and who I feel I would like to go over to talk to.

Obviously I would be polite when I am approaching a person and if I feel it's not going anywhere then I will make my excuses and leave.

Brain Stroking

curlzy wrote: »

No dearie. If he wasn't a demon in the sack I wouldn't be with him, life is too short to go without explosive orgasms.

I'm not with him despite his niceness, and because he's good in bed. I'm with him because of his niceness, he's a wonderful, kind and generous person and also happens to be kinky as all hell and knows how to blow my mind in the bedroom. I found Mr Nice Guy and a sex god in one, hurray

You seem to be clutching at straws. Can you not get any? : (

Er no i do fine thank you.

Sorry if i offended, twas an honest observation. Your above reply hasn't done much to dispel it either.

Scanlas The 2nd

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I do see where you are coming from on this, I just don't see why I should have to try to "impress" someone that catches my eye in a pub and who I feel I would like to go over to talk to.

Obviously I would be polite when I am approaching a person and if I feel it's not going anywhere then I will make my excuses and leave.

Well the way I see it is never try to impress a woman, be yourself, but take on good habits that will benefit you in various areas of your life.

dttq

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Well the way I see it is never try to impress a woman, be yourself, but take on good habits that will benefit you in various areas of your life.

That's a bit of a catch 22 situation there isn't it? The whole "don't impress, pretend you don't give a fukc attitude" is in itself a means of trying to attract and impress. It's a bit of a Murphys law situation whatever way you look at it.

And please dont tell me that fellas don't flash cash or show off cars in front of women, or that women don't wear make-up, short skirts etc. in order not to impress. It's in-built human nature to try and impress the opposite sex, in order for the prize the effort bring about.

Scanlas The 2nd

dttq wrote: »

That's a bit of a catch 22 situation there isn't it? The whole "don't impress, pretend you don't give a fukc attitude" is in itself a means of trying to attract and impress. It's a bit of a Murphys law situation whatever way you look at it.

And please dont tell me that fellas don't flash cash or show off cars in front of women, or that women don't wear make-up, short skirts etc. in order not to impress. It's in-built human nature to try and impress the opposite sex, in order for the prize the effort bring about.

Well IMO when a woman sees you are trying to impress her they often lose interest. Of course men and women try to impress. IMO you impress women by not trying to impress them or care if they are impressed. So if she asks you what your job is you could say you sit on a stool in the street holding an advertisement sign. That's so much more attractive IMO than bragging about your car, cash etc. if you actually want to let her know that you are rich then let her know "accidentally" or downplay it.

You can actually try to impress her so long as she doesn't think you are trying to impress her. Impress by not impressing. Also try to get her to impress you.

blacklilly

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Well IMO when a woman sees you are trying to impress her they often lose interest. Of course men and women try to impress. IMO you impress women by not trying to impress them or care if they are impressed. So if she asks you what your job is you could say you sit on a stool in the street holding an advertisement sign. That's so much more attractive IMO than bragging about your car, cash etc. if you actually want to let her know that you are rich then let her know "accidentally" or downplay it.

You can actually try to impress her so long as she doesn't think you are trying to impress her. Impress by not impressing. Also try to get her to impress you.

Make her laugh too, women love laughing

Daveysil15

I don't think the bars and clubs are great places to meet a potential partner. The most I've gotten was the odd shift while the music goes 'ounce, ounce, ounce.' You can't have a decent conversation in a noisy club anyway, so I think most of that PUA stuff goes out the window in that situation, especially when most people are pissed. Any relationships I've ever had came about from either meeting people in work or online.

Daveysil15

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You can actually try to impress her so long as she doesn't think you are trying to impress her. Impress by not impressing. Also try to get her to impress you.

The most confusing sentence ever!

Scanlas The 2nd

Daveysil15 wrote: »

The most confusing sentence ever!

If she thinks you are trying to impress her she often loses interest, probably why so many women like to be teased or made fun of.

There's usually quiter parts of nightclubs where you can talk, take her there.

Daveysil15

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If she thinks you are trying to impress her she often loses interest, probably why so many women like to be teased or made fun of.

There's usually quiter parts of nightclubs where you can talk, take her there.

The jacks maybe?

jaffacakesyum

dd972 wrote: »

the older I get, the more convinced I am that random, arbitrary luck decides who gets hitched and who doesn't.

there are loads of attractive, educated, men and women who are seemingly stuck in a void of involuntary celibacy and singleton status despite all their efforts to change this with dating websites, trying to meet people through people, getting rat arsed in meat markets like Coppers to try and tempt fate and nudge Cupid's arrows.

then there are millions of boring, mediocrities who get ''the one'' parachuted into their laps via school, college, workplaces, mutual friends etc

then of course, not to forget, there are those who marry, have kids, buy houses and 6 months or 8 years later, it's been the worst single thing that's ever happened to them.

+100000000000000000000

Great post. I really think a lot of it comes down to luck. Now you can increase your chances, of course, (by becoming more confident, outgoing, open to meeting new people, friendly, chatty etc.) but what it boils down to is luck in my opinion.

Gummy Panda

blacklilly wrote: »

Make her laugh too, women love laughing

So i should tickle their feet?

blacklilly

Gummy Panda wrote: »

So i should tickle their feet?

Yes and her nose

EdenHazard

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Either that or online dating and salsa dancing, the boards solution to everything, from cancer to loneliness!

OMG hahahahhahahahahaahahahahahah this is just so funny

beks101

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I just don't see why I should have to try to "impress" someone that catches my eye in a pub and who I feel I would like to go over to talk to.

We're not talking impress in a 'I have many leatherbound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany' kind of way. Moreso just to impress to the point where she thinks, "he seems nice, he seems attractive, I wouldn't mind seeing him again."

It's really just about showing the best version of yourself in that relatively narrow window that you have with the person you're interested in, and seeing if you click. These things happen over a matter of minutes, seconds even, it's a cruel fact of dating but first impressions are important.

Body language is the main thing really. I'm female, I've been approached a lot and have done the approaching and the ones that always work are when I've felt comfortable around the guy, as though I'm talking to a new friend. He seems interested in what I have to say, he picks up on things I say about my job, family, views of life etc and uses them to propel the conversation forward. The whole conversation is driven by a sense of playfulness and humour, we're laughing a lot, maintaining strong eye contact and no-one feels nervous or on edge or 'trapped' into a conversation they can't get out of - either of us could walk away at any second but we don't want to.

Nervousness is cute in theory, but in reality I find that it just means awkwardness and a sense of pressure on me to lead the conversation, which I don't feel like doing when I'm the one being approached.

Happy Christmas everyone!

previous user

I could be considered a nice guy and I've just started dating a nice gal there before Christmas, You just have to put yourself out there.

StudentDad

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Well the way I see it is never try to impress a woman, be yourself, but take on good habits that will benefit you in various areas of your life.

I'd have to agree with that. Going around with a virtual sign around your neck that reads, 'desperate bloke for rent,' can't be all that attractive.

SD

Daveysil15

beks101 wrote: »

Body language is the main thing really. I'm female, I've been approached a lot and have done the approaching and the ones that always work are when I've felt comfortable around the guy, as though I'm talking to a new friend. !

Would it be comfortable if the guy was really unattractive though? He could be comfortable and have good body language, but if the girl thinks he's ugly it won't count for much.

twinytwo

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Would it be comfortable if the guy was really unattractive though? He could be comfortable and have good body language, but if the girl thinks he's ugly it won't count for much.

I used to think the same tbh, however i was at a friends birthday recently and one of her friends who is one of the few women i would consider to be truly drop dead gorgeous was talking to this fella for ages and i asked my friend who he was.. he was her friends bf... i was like :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: he was well well below average. yet he managed to hook her.

Daveysil15

twinytwo wrote: »

I used to think the same tbh, however i was at a friends birthday recently and one of her friends who is one of the few women i would consider to be truly drop dead gorgeous was talking to this fella for ages and i asked my friend who he was.. he was her friends bf... i was like :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: he was well well below average. yet he managed to hook her.

It's all subjective though. She obviously found him attractive.

1ZRed

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Would it be comfortable if the guy was really unattractive though? He could be comfortable and have good body language, but if the girl thinks he's ugly it won't count for much.

I love the lads who think great looks mean absolutely everything to everybody. It does for some, it doesn't for a lot of others.
You could be perfectly comfortable around someone who may not be particularly attractive to you, but their personality, confidence, body language and general sense of humor, or whatever else, could be a big decider in how you perceive them and then for you to build an attraction on.

So I wouldn't bank much on "if the girl thinks he's ugly it won't count for much" because there are many, many factors at play at deciding attractiveness, and that doesn't always just mean physical attractiveness.

I know many lads who wouldn't be the greatest looking guys in the world but they are the best craic to be around, genuinely comfortable in themselves and they have gone out with some unreal looking girls.
I figure a lot of them don't hang around pining over how good they could look or how women would prefer if they were better looking, etc, because all that sulking and obsessing isn't attractive to anyone.

I'd say the best thing you could ever do is to get comfortable with yourself because a lot of confidence comes with that, and that is an attractive quality to people.

Scanlas The 2nd

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's all subjective though. She obviously found him attractive.

I think you'll find women are a lot more forgiving generally than men when considering looks. A below average man in looks can be highly attractive to most women whereas it doesn't really work like that for women. There personality has a lot less power to make them attractive IMO. Still a factor of course.

Duck Soup

At the risk of disagreeing with some people on the internet - and it's rare that that happens - I have to say that the older I get, the less I think it's down to dumb luck. I remember picking out in my early 20s the people - friends, acquaintances, cousins etc - I'd expect not to get married (including myself) and those early predictions have turned out to be unnervingly accurate.

There's a variety of different personalities, from the painfully shy to the aggressively shocking and gauche, but they all seem to have one thing in common - they self-exclude themselves from the evolutionary mating game (yeah, I went there.)

'Nice guys' are usually what it says on the tin, but they invariably lack a willingness to flirt - in other words, present themselves to a woman in a (usually light and joking) sexual light. They seem to lack the self-confidence to allow themselves to be judged as a mate, believing that they will always be rejected.

Go straight into 'nice guy' mode and you present yourself as a non-threatening, non-sexual friend. Always with a smile and willing to lend a hand and offering support, but never willing to put yourself on the line and risk rejection. The truth - and advantage - of flirting is that it enables you to go a little way towards putting yourself forward as a possible partner, but has plenty of out-clauses so both parties can feel 'no harm, no foul'. Sometimes they flirt back, sometimes they don't. Okay, so when they roll their eyes it hurts a bit.

Most of the nice guys I know lack the basic sexual confidence to put themselves on the line. They sit there, sexually inert, and expect some stray female to notice their doubtless fine qualities.

I debated with myself whether to throw out this tangential observation, but I'll pass it on for what it's worth. On the other hand, I know two fine catches of women who are blazingly successful professionally but remain conspicuously single heading into their forties. The commonality is that they are looking for the alpha males to their alpha females. The problem is that, despite both being remarkable and intelligent women, both are frankly plain. An alpha male isn't necessarily threatened by an alpha female's success, but they better have the alpha female looks to go with the career achievements. Men are dogs; they judge and choose on looks. My two female friends can't understand why they can't find handsome, successful guys to match them. There's no easy way to explain to them what I think is at work.

alan767

creeper1 wrote: »

Word of wisdom from a audio-blogger.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61_R2X3Pr1I

He discusses the well known fact that women aren't attracted to nice guys. There are many reasons for this. Ranging from nice guys being too boring to not being like alpha males.

We are more like animals that we realise IMHO. In a animal environment it is only the alpha male. The baddest, strongest, most attitude filled stag that gets mating rights to all the females.

And if any of the other stags have the audacity to try to mate with females the alpha male will come and stick horns up his ass! Or murder the poor sod!!

The worst of the worst is the nice guy that takes care of the baby fathered by another man. Darwin (and me) would be disgusted by you.

So is bachelorhood a better options for nice guys. In my opinion it probably is. There are women that can paid to satisfy your needs. Way preferable to supporting to the child of another.

Excellent post I fully concur. You have hit the nail right on the head my learned friend.

Daveysil15

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think you'll find women are a lot more forgiving generally than men when considering looks. A below average man in looks can be highly attractive to most women whereas it doesn't really work like that for women. There personality has a lot less power to make them attractive IMO. Still a factor of course.

I don't dispute that. Obviously there's more to attraction than physical looks, but as you say, it is still a factor. A guy could be very average in the looks department but have a great personality, and that would make him attractive to some. But if a girl finds someone to be hideously unattractive physically, then its going to be difficult to build attraction from anything else.

beks101

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Would it be comfortable if the guy was really unattractive though? He could be comfortable and have good body language, but if the girl thinks he's ugly it won't count for much.

Well obviously yes, I've always been attracted to the guy in question, but that's as much to do with his confidence and personality and attention towards me as it has his looks. I don't tend to date Brad Pitts.

The attraction thing is always a risk. But how are you going to know whether or not she's attracted to you if you don't even bother?