has motor tax passed the "is it worth buying" rate?

tipptom

If the majority of people who thinks the tax is inequitable and unfair refused to pay the tax full stop and forced them to pass a fairer tax system,would the moral high grounders here gallop on down to join our hard fought and won campaign or would you stay up on your lofty positions insisting on paying your upward only tax and saying what ragged mob we are?

tipptom

tipptom wrote: »

If the majority of people who thinks the tax is inequitable and unfair refused to pay the tax full stop and forced them to pass a fairer tax system,would the moral high grounders here gallop on down to join our hard fought and won campaign or would you stay up on your lofty positions insisting on paying your upward only tax and saying what ragged mob we are?

Where can I book a flight to fantasy island to consider that possibility?

I'll pay whatever motor tax is due on the car I own.

Dartz

Or perhaps just took to the streets around Leinster house and clogged them up with so many cars, nobody could get in or out. Grind the city to a halt for the day.

Make a point.

tipptom

RoverJames wrote: »

Where can I book a flight to fantasy island to consider that possibility?

I'll pay whatever motor tax is due on the car I own.

So if there was a well organised protest by the majority of people for a fairer tax.you would not join in,you would just keep giving what ever the fragrant frau Enda and Merkel demands?,and wait to see the outcome.?

Chris_Heilong

Dartz wrote: »

Or perhaps just took to the streets around Leinster house and clogged them up with so many cars, nobody could get in or out. Grind the city to a halt for the day.

Make a point.

I had this very thought but didn't want to say anything as I guessed it would be against board rules to organize a protest or a coup d'état:rolleyes:. Someone get a partition up first.

Our man in Havana

I see no problem in organising a protest.

Chris_Heilong

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I see no problem in organising a protest.

SO a coup d'état is out of the question then?:)

Our man in Havana

Not at all.

tipptom

tipptom wrote: »

So if there was a well organised protest by the majority of people for a fairer tax.you would not join in...........

Correct
As I've mentioned more than a few times motor tax rates (the fairness of them, the cost of them etc etc) rank quite low on my list of things I give a sh1t about.

tipptom wrote: »

............you would just keep giving what ever the fragrant frau Enda and Merkel demands?
..

My previous post has already answered that........"I'll pay whatever motor tax is due on the car I own"

tipptom wrote: »

............and wait to see the outcome.?

I couldn't give less of a sh1t of the outcome.

I'll just throw out a few of the things I see requiring some government focus ahead of motor tax rates....

- means testing childrens allowance
- the tax relief on pension contributions
- people who were paying little tax due to their situation (single income couples with kids for example (on the likes of a normal wage), there are many more examples) who got hit with the USC, in my eyes this was the most deplorable of ill thought out taxes/levies/charges whatever you want to call it introduced by an Irish government in the last decade (and there has been lots stuff introduced)
- continued wastage in the health service while A&E faclilities and the number of beds are still being cut, along with other front line, essential services
- cuts to carers and funding for special needs assistants
- TDs pensions
- abuse of sick pay "entitlements" by PS workers
- CP agreement ensuring more money is p1ssed down the drain
- "bankrupt" c0cks**kers not being adequately dealt with and the value of their assets not being maximised by NAMA etc
- the bailed out banks fleecing their customers


When all or some of the above is improved upon I might start to see why people get their knickers in a twist about motor tax rates

Dartz

Okay....

Um.

There's maybe ten of us here along with.....?

That begs the question. How do protests get organised?

Deliverance XXV

While I think the prices are unjust and unequal I think the system is a joke. Instead of requiring an insurance policy to tax your car then why not require a tax certificate to insure your car instead? That would cut down on a lot of the tax payments non-conformance. They would have to level the insurance time-frame with the tax time-frame though. Meh.

joujoujou

Deliverance XXV wrote: »

While I think the prices are unjust and unequal I think the system is a joke.

Yep, you're right. The system is a joke indeed.

Deliverance XXV wrote: »

Instead of requiring an insurance policy to tax your car then why not require a tax certificate to insure your car instead? [...]

And what if one buy a car without insurance nor tax? How to buy an insurance without tax then? And how to pay a tax without insurance? :P

By the way - in fact, there's no insurance necessary to tax a car. Once I paid a tax online and made a typo in insurance number entered. Unwillingly.

No problem at all. Tax paid, disc issued

Next time did another "mistake" (on purpose this time) just for testing purposes.

And again, no problem.

Deliverance XXV

joujoujou wrote: »

Yep, you're right. The system is a joke indeed.

And what if one buy a car without insurance nor tax? How to buy an insurance without tax then? And how to pay a tax without insurance? :P

By the way - in fact, there's no insurance necessary to tax a car. Once I paid a tax online and made a typo in insurance number entered. Unwillingly.

No problem at all. Tax paid, disc issued

Next time did another "mistake" (on purpose this time) just for testing purposes.

And again, no problem.

I meant tax requirement for insurance to replace insurance requirement for tax. But then, I didn't know you could *fiddle* the online tax payment. Or indeed if insurance policy for tax is legally needed.

Meh. System needs to be changed.

Dartz

Easiest solution to that would be to make tax part of the insurance so one payment covers all.

Then again, that would also make costs for both less transparent to the driver.

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

Where can I book a flight to fantasy island to consider that possibility?

I'll pay whatever motor tax is due on the car I own.

If in Budget 2014, they decide to ramp up the tax on your car to €2000 a year, you're still happy to pay it are you?

Somehow I quite doubt that.

The Bishop Basher

Dartz wrote: »

Okay....

Um.

There's maybe ten of us here along with.....?

That begs the question. How do protests get organised?

It begins with a couple of leaders and a groundswell of popular support.

I'm in.

Bigus

Swanner wrote: »

It begins with a couple of leaders and a groundswell of popular support.

I'm in.

A bit of imagination needs to be put into an effective protest not like farmers marching on the dail .

Also if cars are involved they'll all have to be taxed and insured.

The more I read the opinions in this thread it seems tome that an actual drop in revenue is on the cards due to unfair rates on older cars. This is what really gets the attention, of the powers that be.

So by over cooking the rates the government may cause revenue to fall.

So an effective protest would re inforce this point.

166man

Bigus wrote: »

A bit of imagination needs to be put into an effective protest not like farmers marching on the dail .

Also if cars are involved they'll all have to be taxed and insured.

The more I read the opinions in this thread it seems tome that an actual drop in revenue is on the cards due to unfair rates on older cars. This is what really gets the attention, of the powers that be.

So by over cooking the rates the government may cause revenue to fall.

So an effective protest would re inforce this point.

It would re-inforce the fact that clearly we can see the Laffer curve effect on Motor tax. There was evidence of this in the '80's too. I see it being a very strong point to bring up tbh.

Bigus

166man wrote: »

It would re-inforce the fact that clearly we can see the Laffer curve effect on Motor tax. There was evidence of this in the '80's too. I see it being a very strong point to bring up tbh.

Yes indeed the high horse brigade have come up with the following answers on this very forum

Buy a bike

Downgrade

Get a smaller car

Get a newer more tax effective car

Use public transport

Go from a two car family yo one

Walk

And guess what all theses solutions = large drop in government revenue, wiping out the rates increase or

Probably decreasing revenue AND causing otherwise law abiding citizens to consider breaking the law.

So maybe a concerted effort of not taxing cars for a three month or even one month period would drive the point home.
I suggest the month of MAY when the weather's good enough to use alternatives.

Dartz

The problem with that is....

It's kind of easy to kill if you don't get enough grunt behind it, and if the government is able to really roll over and stop a protest it makes them look better and more in control.


If it happens. It has to be midweek. And it has to happen before TD's get driven to the Dail. Keep them from going in and governmenting for a bit. Or at least force them to walk through it all.

Bigus

Or a WALK to the Dail with placards with pictures of the untaxed cars lying up printed on the placards, and large figures of the lost revenue.

166man

166man wrote: »

If in Budget 2014, they decide to ramp up the tax on your car to €2000 a year, you're still happy to pay it are you?

Somehow I quite doubt that.

I don't expect to have the ZT this time next year, but as per my post that you quoted ill pay whatever tax is due on the car I own, along with the vast majority of motorists

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't expect to have the ZT this time next year, but as per my post that you quoted ill pay whatever tax is due on the car I own, along with the vast majority of motorists

Whether or not you'll have it isn't the main thing. If you bought another 2.5 litre car and they decided that €1000 wasn't enough and that it would be €2000 a year to tax, if you're honestly saying you'll have no problem paying that you must be a very very wealthy man.

bbsrs

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Not paying your tax is also illegal. Doesn't stop people not doing it.

Don't think I've ever read in the paper of anyone being prosecuted for a forged tax disk.

€100 euro fine forged tax disc some mitigating circumstances in this case though.

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/fake-tax-disc-cant-fool-eagle-eyed-garda-3062451.html

False off road declaration to obtain tax disc, silly mistake reading the article . €300 euro fine.

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/made-false-declaration-to-obtain-motor-tax-disc-3064525.html

As I said, I will pay whatever the rate is for the car I own, that's my feelings on the matter. I'm far from a very very wealthy man as bigus can tell you

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

As I said, I will pay whatever the rate is for the car I own, that's my feelings on the matter. I'm far from a very very wealthy man as bigus can tell you

So you head off next year and buy something else with a big engine seeing as the tax doesn't bother you say a 325i for arguments sake. However the tax has increased to €2000, you're still going to pay that no matter what is it?

Being able to fork out the guts of €1k a year in your own yoke and it being ''low on your list of important things'' makes you quite a wealthy man in my books.

....at the risk of repeating myself I'll tax whatever I own so the answer to your question is yes.

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

....at the risk of repeating myself I'll tax whatever I own so the answer to your question is yes.

I just needed you to repeat yourself because I wasn't sure I was reading it correctly.

I sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying that much for a disk on my windscreen and to drive on sh1tty roads. I'd far prefer to see some of the idea's you posted be implemented instead such as means-testing children's allowance.

Forking out that much cash a year and not seeming to be remotely bothered by it seems a bit odd to me, I dunno though, I'm a poor student.

Bigus

166man wrote: »

I just needed you to repeat yourself because I wasn't sure I was reading it correctly.

I sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying that much for a disk on my windscreen and to drive on sh1tty roads.

Holy god 166 man I nearly read it as

"paying out ,that much to drive a ****ty Ro...,"

Just as well I didn't jump to conclusions.

As I mentioned recently the roads I drive on aren't bad at all, I can see how the motor tax rates aren't fair but as I mentioned they're not on my list of government must fixes. You'll also notice the opposition folk don't bring them up too often. You'll buy a busso engined Alfa for very small money when you leave college if you're so inclined.

Bigus

K

Bigus wrote: »

Holy god 166 man I nearly read it as

"paying out ,that much to drive a ****ty Ro...,"

Just as well I didn't jump to conclusions.

Not like you not to jump to conclusions, you're mind is narrower than a strippers g string

flutered

hytrogen wrote: »

simple, go into your nearest dealership, point & say "I want that one"

Fair point but Bigger risk on main roads than boy racers statistically since br's are being irradiated & running into walls trying to overtake biddy doing 20 in a 40 zone.. However I do agree that there should be more infrastructural support for the elderly so they don't have to drive & face confusing speeds..

the recession has finished the boy racers, hell if one of them cannot overtake a car travelling at 20 without crashing then they should be automatically issued with a high nelly.

bbsrs

godtabh wrote: »

Yes it does. There is a budget for motor tax the government needs to collect. If every one paid what they were meant to pay the burden on average would be less per person.

The fact that you illegally decided that the rate you are going to pay means that every one else who pays in full has to take up your slack.

If you ignore the post 2008 changes the pre 2008 system was never going to change. You knew when you bought that car that the system was as it is and the only way the tax would go is up.

Now there is a perceived injustice that post 2008 tax system was introduced. Did you pay your motor tax pre 2008?

So say he went and bought a post 08 car , he would pay for one year the same as he pays now for 6 months what would happen the slack then . In your view everyone that's moves from a pre 08 to a post 08 is creating more slack .

Esel

We need ANPR on every Garda car, linked to an up-to-date database of tax and insurance. Can't see it happening soon in the current economic climate though.

The Bishop Basher

RoverJames wrote: »

As I mentioned recently the roads I drive on aren't bad at all, I can see how the motor tax rates aren't fair but as I mentioned they're not on my list of government must fixes. You'll also notice the opposition folk don't bring them up too often. You'll buy a busso engined Alfa for very small money when you leave college if you're so inclined.

It's got nothing to do with the roads. It's a motor tax as well you know.

Swanner

Swanner wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with the roads. It's a motor tax as well you know.

I was replying to 166man, he mentioned the roads.

SeanW

godtabh wrote: »

Did you not know that how much it was going to cost to tax the car? Did some one trick you or something to buy the car?

When I bought my car, annual tax was €614. Now it's €710, almost €100 of an increase. I most certainly did not know that was going to happen!

gov.ie must think we're all loaded or something ...

ART6

SeanW wrote: »

When I bought my car, annual tax was €614. Now it's €710, almost €100 of an increase. I most certainly did not know that was going to happen!

gov.ie must think we're all loaded or something ...

And the other sneaky trick was that the increased rates would not apply to 2008 cars onwards -- except that the registration date chosen for when a car becomes 2008 was 1st July, not 1st January! Since January is the peak period for new car sales, that means that in actual fact a large number of 2008 cars will be liable for the increased taxes.

Saab Ed

Esel wrote: »

We need ANPR on every Garda car, linked to an up-to-date database of tax and insurance. Can't see it happening soon in the current economic climate though.

We do in our bollockz. I don't know! Are you a drone! Have you been reading nothing in this thread! The entire problem of non compliance is either A) because everyone's broke because we got fcuked by the state or even if you're not yet broke, you will be soon by being fcuked by the state. Making criminals out of good people again.

You want to hand over endless amounts of retained information on non law breaking citizens to badly educated plebs in a fiesta van . Has this country gone completely fcuking mad! I know, I know, the state has made a balls of this, let's give them more power. Better still, why don't we just bring in our own form of secret police, no fcuking around then.

Here's an idea though. Tell some banksters that some other banksters used their money badly and now they don't have it to give back. Tell them our banksters are in prison and that we look forward to seeing our European Union partners putting their banksters in prison too. Also tell them that due to the fact that we are not under writing their gambling debts, motor tax will not be increased this year. Put tags on these banksters forever when they do finally get out of prison and allow the plebs in the fiesta van to pull them over at will and question them about their financial affairs. Now there's a solution ......

Fcuk me, I give up on this country.

tipptom

Clogging up the Dail with cars does not work,the only way they will take notice is a well organised timeframe for anyone who thinks the tax is unfair and simply do not pay,clog up the courts and grind the system to a halt.
We are not objecting to the tax,its the fairness that we need addressed and when they are forced to do this, then have a zero tolerance policy towards non compliant car users.
SEIZE THE DAY PEOPLE,SEIZE THE DAY.

As you mention court it seems you are suggesting driving untaxed cars on public roads, what will the court cases be about? Refusing to allow ags impound all the untaxed cars? Can't see any of the anti motor tax mouths having the balls to follow that one through, can you ?

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

As I mentioned recently the roads I drive on aren't bad at all, I can see how the motor tax rates aren't fair but as I mentioned they're not on my list of government must fixes. You'll also notice the opposition folk don't bring them up too often. You'll buy a busso engined Alfa for very small money when you leave college if you're so inclined.

The point about me buying an Alfa when I leave college is just plain irrelevant. Once again, I highly doubt that if tax doubled next year, it would be low on your order of preferences, unless money isn't an issue of course.

Bigus

Esel wrote: »

We need ANPR on every Garda car, linked to an up-to-date database of tax and insurance. Can't see it happening soon in the current economic climate though.

I think you'd be more at home in the uk ,super compliance over there apart from the number plate cloning.

166man

166man wrote: »

The point about me buying an Alfa when I leave college is just plain irrelevant. Once again, I highly doubt that if tax doubled next year, it would be low on your order of preferences, unless money isn't an issue of course.

The point about tax doubling next year is equally irrelevant
Regardless, as I've said 3 or 4 times I will pay what's due, not my issue you don't like the answers to your questions

Our man in Havana

Grand so we shall raise it to 5 grand. It can be called the "I don't care" band.

Our man in Havana

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Grand so we shall raise it to 5 grand. It can be called the "I don't care" band.

Try and remain somewhat realistic
Lol at the "we"

Sobanek

I still think motor tax in fuel is the best alternative. You drive = you pay. You don't drive = you don't pay.
As fair as it can be.

Paddy001

Sobanek wrote: »

I still think motor tax in fuel is the best alternative. You drive = you pay. You don't drive = you don't pay.
As fair as it can be.

Indeed, but promoting fuel laundering won't help will it! Not sure if it has been mentioned, but as regards ANPR, it's updated every Tuesday and Thursday as far as I am aware. I once taxed a car on Thursday and had traffic corp all over me on Friday

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

The point about tax doubling next year is equally irrelevant
Regardless, as I've said 3 or 4 times I will pay what's due, not my issue you don't like the answers to your questions

How is it? Can you predict what will happen? Doubt it somehow... It's not that I don't like your answers, I find them more amusing tbh, how the government could ramp up motor tax rates and you wouldn't give a stuff. Comical stuff really.

166man

166man wrote: »

How is it? Can you predict what will happen?

I can make an educated guess based on recent budgets
I'm happy to say with 99% certainty that none of the current cc rates for Private Cars registered before 1 July 2008 will double in budget 2014, if you think it's likely they will I find that amusing if not bordering on ridiculous

166man wrote: »

... It's not that I don't like your answers, I find them more amusing tbh, how the government could ramp up motor tax rates and you wouldn't give a stuff. Comical stuff really.

I do believe my comments were that " I'll pay whatever tax is due on the car I own" (including if the car is a 2.5) and "As I've mentioned more than a few times motor tax rates (the fairness of them, the cost of them etc etc) rank quite low on my list of things I give a sh1t about".

If cc rates do double next year (which I'm 99% sure they won't as I've explained) my views won't change

For a €1000/annum rate to hit €2000/annum I reckon it would take 11 years of 7% rises. I imagine that's not likely to happen either but I'll say again I'm 99% sure none of the cc rates will double next year

To put the current cc rates in perspective if a single person with no dependents (taxed at the higher rate) received a Christmas bonus of €2500 the government would get €1200 ish of that €2500 in PRSI, PAYE and USC and they'd also get a few more €€s in employers PRSI if the person was a PAYE worker as opposed to being self employed. That's the annual motor (best part of) tax for a 3.0 car, so when you look at the levels of direct tax people pay over 12 months a 7% or so rise in motor tax is really a drop in the ocean.

Now considering the standard rate cut off is €35k ish how people can't understand or find it amusing how someone isn't overly bothered about a small few quid extra in motor tax I find baffling.

I was in the A&E of Cork University Hospital recently, during the day I may add not on a Saturday night/peak time, a shocking scene and the rest of the A&Es in the country are hardly any better.

To reiterate, motor tax rates, not on my list of give a sh1ts about.
And that's the day after I taxed my yoke for 6 months

By all means do continue to rant and rave and send emails to whoever about motor tax rates, have a protest, organise "mass" non payment of same but don't expect everyone to join in and don't expect people to focus on motor tax when many of us feel there are far more pressing problems that need more focus at the current time.