Why are we not revolting???

gobnaitolunacy

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

How do I become a TD ?

Step 1 seems to be get a job as a school teacher.:rolleyes:

KyussBishop

UCDVet wrote:

6.) Closely related to #5....but I don't see a viable alternative. Everyone wants a more prosperous Ireland, but everyone disagrees with how to go about it. We'd need a central idea/figure/leader that provides us an alternative and manages to convince a significant percent of the unhappy people their way is better. And it can't just be marginally better.

There are several alternatives, but they are all at an EU level; short-term, a lot can be done to reduce our debt interest payments, and longer term, a recovery program can be put funded (in non-inflationary ways) with money creation.

It's only possible at an EU level though, Ireland can't do a thing; that doesn't mean protesting is not important though, because it puts greater pressure on government and the EU.

ilovesleep

KyussBishop wrote: »

There are several alternatives, but they are all at an EU level; short-term, a lot can be done to reduce our debt interest payments, and longer term, a recovery program can be put funded (in non-inflationary ways) with money creation.

It's only possible at an EU level though, Ireland can't do a thing; that doesn't mean protesting is not important though, because it puts greater pressure on government and the EU.

That's right. The real problem with this deficit is growth or the lack of it. Growth is hindered due to the cutbacks on the money supply.

justaskin likeyakno

I'm sure there are people out there who don't want anything to change as they're happy with things as they are.

Workers are too buey to protest and all those not working are not bothered, for whatever reason.

The unemployed of the Boom, are no less off now than when things were rolling, so they don't care, they've settled into a life of welfare.

I feel for the newly unemployed, those just out of school or college and the people forced to emigrate.

Irish people of today don't know what real poverty is, they think they are impoverished because they can't afford Sky or a take away/dinner out or a social life, that's just recession stuff. Just because you can't afford the lifestyle you had in the Tiger Years doesn't mean you're not well off.

Higher taxes etc are just the price we have to pay, yes it's unfair on a minority, and you can get all worked up, but for what...to give yourself a stress induced heart attack or just have a chip on each shoulder.

There is over 50% of the irish population on Medical Cards, a lot of them don't need it, but that's another story.

Money could be saved in so many places but the system doesn't seem to be there to implement it, let alone put a one in place.

We are a social welfare dreamland according to some, and untill we start looking after Irish people first and stop giving foreign aid to others and floating non nationals, we are going no where.

We are not revolting because most of the irish are gone and the ones that are left don't care anymore.

Brinimartini

franktheplank wrote: »

We've been divided and conquered, there's still enough groups of cronies being pampered and looked after to prevent a critical mass from occurring.

Yes, incredible as it seems this is very likely to be the truth.
If true then there simply are'nt enough suffering to tilt the balance.

sock puppet

justaskin likeyakno wrote: »

I feel for the newly unemployed, those just out of school or college and the people forced to emigrate.

Those just out of college have quite a few opportunities available to them. I don't understand the problem with young people emigrating. I'll be graduating next year and while I'm happy to work in Dublin, I'd love to go abroad at some stage. In faact given the choice I'd probably rather work abroad now.

Things are quite **** but the gloom on boards isn't reflected in any college student or grad I know.

Sully

Biggins wrote: »

The numbers have changed but the following will give you an idea of what a TD is capable of collecting!


Irish Political Gravy Train

With hundreds of thousands of workers facing the prospects of pay cuts and job losses, Ireland’s politicians should look at their own perks and payments before dictating to the rest of the country.Let’s have a look at what your local TDs gets paid – as well as the tens of thousands of euro they get TAX FREE every year in expenses and allowances.

POLITICIANS’ SALARIES: Since October 2001, Ireland’s TDs and Senators pocketed a whopping 15 pay rises to almost double their bounty every year – and this is without the extravagant expenses and allowances they claim.Back in October 2001, a first-time TD was earning a basic salary of €65,592 a year – a handsome amount for the time.

But thanks to the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness, Social Partnership, Towards 2016 and benchmarking, they have seen their basic salaries rise by 53% to a staggering €100,191 a year.For TDs with three years service or more, they saw their salaries rise by the same percentage from €67,685 to €103,389 and those with six years service or more saw their pay pocket bulge from €69,777 to €106,582.Senators have also seen their salaries rise over the past seven years but by a larger degree – 60%.Back in 2001, a new Senator was earning €43,824 a year but this has shot up to €70,134 a year.

A Senator with three years service now gets €72,371 (up from €45,223) and a Senator with more than six years service now gets €74,608 (up from €46,621).And if this wasn’t enough, when it comes to office holders such as the Taoiseach, Tanaiste, Ministers and Ministers of State, they have also seen their salaries increase phenomenally.

Back in 2001, the Taoiseach was paid €126,141 on top of his TDs salary bringing his total salary to €191,733. By 2008 this had rocketed by 47% to €185,392 on top of his TDs wages bringing his total salary to €285,583.
The Tanaiste has also experienced a significant pay hike – from a total of €164,595 in 2001 to €245,325 in 2008.

Ministers and the Ceann Comhairle get an extra €125,005 on top of their TDs salaries (up from €86,178 in 2001) and the Attorney General has seen his pay rise by 48% from €151,770 in 2001 to €225,196.

Junior Ministers pay has increased by 43% over the past seven years – from €38,137 on top of their TD’s salary in 2001 to €54,549 in 2008.

Payments for the Leas Ceann Comhairle, the Cathaoirleach, Leas Cathaoirleach and Leader of the Seanad have also increased by over 40% in the past seven years to €54,549, €49,255, €27,112 and €21,525 on top of their TDs/Senators salary respectively.

POLITICIANS’ ALLOWANCES:

The six-figure sums that our politicians are earning are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the gravy train they are riding on.

Allowances and expenses – all TAX FREE – have the same effect of almost trebling a politicians’ salary.

• ‘WALKING AROUND MONEY’: Each TD is entitled to what is terms ‘walking around’ money of €5,482.73 a year. This is supposed to cover expenses that other allowances don’t cover. Politicians do not have to supply any receipts for this and are free to use it however they wish. In the case of Ministers, they yet in excess of €13,000 a year in ‘walking around money’..

• TELEPHONE: Each TD gets €6,384.69 a year to pay for the telephone in their constituency office. If they are a Committee Chairperson or a Whip, they get an extra €1,269.74 a year – UNTAXED. Within Leinster House, they are entitled to free phone calls.

• MOBILE PHONES – A special scheme exists for TDs so they can buy their mobile phone and car-kit directly from their local dealer and they are reimbursed the total cost of the equipment. The reimbursement is on a vouched basis in respect of the equipment and a further €250 is paid to cover insurance, maintenance and miscellaneous expenses (not exceeding €770 every 18 months).

• POSTAL FACILITIES: Each TD is entitled to 1,750 paid envelopes every month. There is an additional postal allowance for Dail party whips and Seanad group whips.

• CONSTITUENCY OFFICE MAINTENANCE: TDs can claim €8,888.17 every year for the upkeep of their constituency offices. This allowance, again UNTAXED, is supposed to cover rent, rates, electricity, heating, purchase of office equipment, cleaning and insurance.

• CONSTITUENCY OFFICE GRANT: Each TD can claim a once-off Constituency Establishment Grant of €8,888.17 when setting up an office.

• SPECIAL SECRETARIAL ALLOWANCE: TDs are entitled to €8,888.17 every year in respect of expenses arising from the engagements of additional secretarial assistance.

• OVERNIGHT ALLOWANCES: Yet another unvouched allowance for TDs. The current overnight allowance is €139.67 and TDs who live more than 15 miles from Leinster House can claim it in respect of the preceding night while attending the Dail, Seanad or Committee. The TDs can also claim it on any day the Dail, Seanad or Committee sits irrespective of adjournment time. So if the Dail adjourns at 2pm on a Thursday, the TDs can still claim an overnight despite there being ample time to return to their constituencies. They are also entitled to claim this allowance if they travel to Leinster House for a meeting or if they simply have to travel to Leinster House to use its facilities.

• TRAVEL TO LEINSTER HOUSE: If a TD lives within 15 miles of Leinster House, they are entitled to a ‘Daily Allowance’ of €61.53. If they further than 15 miles, they have a choice – claim the ‘Daily Allowance’ or claim an overnight allowance and civil service mileage of €1.16 per mile for the first 4,000 miles and 54c a mile for each mile over that level. TDs can also claim full mileage even if they use public transport to travel to Leinster House.

• CONSTITUENCY TRAVEL: In addition to travel and overnight allowances, TDs also benefit from a Constituency Travel Allowance to cover travel within their constituencies. There are three rates of allowances available depending on the size of the TD’s constituency – €2,745, €5,480 or €8,782.

• INDEPENDENT ALLOWANCE: Independent TDs were entitled to a TAX-FREE payment of €41,152 on top of their salaries, expenses and allowances just because they are not members of a political party. The main parties in government took this off their opposition!

• If a TD is appointed the Chair of an Oireachtas committee, he/she gets an extra €20,023 and the vice-chair gets €10,241. The chair and whips of the five subcommittees receive €6,380 a year. This payment is taxable.

EARNING POTENTIAL OF A TD:

Take Joe Bloggs. He has been a TD for a constituency based 100 miles away from Dublin for the past ten years. He is representative of a large number of TDs in Leinster House at the moment.

Considering that Joe Bloggs spends 100 nights in Dublin and travels to the capital once a week for 30 weeks, lets see what he can expect to rake in in a single year.

SALARY – €90,000+ (as he has more than six years service, he is entitled to this higher rate)
COMMITTEE CHAIR PAYMENT – €20,023

WALKING AROUND MONEY – €5,489 TAX FREE
CONSTITUENCY TRAVEL – €5,489 TAX FREE
CONSTITUENCY OFFICE GRANT – €8,888.17 TAX FREE
CONSTITUENCY OFFICE MAINTENANCE – €8,888.17 TAX FREE
CONSTITUENCY TELEPHONE ALLOWANCE – €6,348.69 TAX FREE
SPECIAL SECRETARIAL ALLOWANCE – €8,888.17 TAX FREE
OVERNIGHT ALLOWANCE – €139.67 x 100 = €13,967 TAX FREE
MILEAGE – 200 miles a week for 30 weeks = 6,000 miles. 4,000@€1.16 and 2,000@54c = €5,720 TAX FREE.

TOTAL EXTRAS: €63,678.20 TAX FREE

TOTAL SALARY INCLUDING ALLOWANCES AND EXPENSES – €170,283.

From: http://irishpoliticalpopcorn.blogspot.ie/


* For an update on the increases they awarded themselves - while cutting others today: http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/irish-tds-award-themselves-more-money/



* How is their (our?) money spent? On expensive clocks and cufflinks: http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/how-td-expenses-can-cost-the-state/

...And if you can cope with the above, yo can cope with the rest: http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/the-tds-expenses-fiasco-continues/

The only people gaining money this year is TDs and Senators.
So much for austerity for all!

I agree some of these need to be cut. But it isn't going to avoid harsh budgets so we need to remember that.

Madam_X

ilovesleep wrote: »

^^^^ Jesus Biggins - that's shocking. I've said it a few times, they should be leading by example in government.

How are people so apathetic towards that sh1t?

Your post is giving me thumbing headaches.

I dont know anyone who is apathetic towards it. Theyre all angry but limited in what they can do; not able to offer an alternative... like you.

Sergeant

People really seem to forget that things will get better. As tends to happen in these boom-boost cycles. And the rich will get richer. And the poor will still be defined by ever rising benchmarks of what constitutes poor. And people will still complain. And FF will get back into power.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

Eden3

Great post, have to say - a lot of truth there. It's amazing that we all complain and moan about our "hard lot" when really we are so much better off than Greece etc. However, we are hard done by, by our Government I think and we should react to that. Certainly there's a lot of "reaction" here on this forum ... should be put into action. There's way too many people complacent on the Dole - have been on it for donkeys years - that has to stop! Defo an element of Irish society who think the State pays for their existence and should continue to do so because they've got used to it that way, but they must realise it's their working neighbours who pay for it and now, those neighbours, are paying through the teeth for it ...!

Sergeant

Sergeant wrote: »

People really seem to forget that things will get better. As tends to happen in these boom-boost cycles. And the rich will get richer. And the poor will still be defined by ever rising benchmarks of what constitutes poor. And people will still complain. And FF will get back into power.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

Do you really think that the cycle will continue when you have several Asian countries replacing much of the manufacturing industries in the west by using "low maintenance employees"? High energy costs and a workforce that has expensive (relative to most of the world) needs will condemn us to a continuous downward spiral until we're nearer to parity with the wealthier "Third World" countries.

Sergeant

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really think that the cycle will continue when you have several Asian countries replacing much of the manufacturing industries in the west by using "low maintenance employees"? High energy costs and a workforce that has expensive (relative to most of the world) needs will condemn us to a continuous downward spiral until we're nearer to parity with the wealthier "Third World" countries.

As was predicted when Japan became a low-cost producer in the 60's and South Korea in the 80's? Yes, absolutely. The spirit of human initiative and a desire to better ourselves is a very basic thing. It's why everyday there are so many new and exciting products and service released that we want to purchase.
We'll always require 'expensive' employees. Moaning about our lot will do very little towards recognising that.

Sergeant

Sergeant wrote: »

As was predicted when Japan became a low-cost producer in the 60's and South Korea in the 80's? Yes, absolutely. The spirit of human initiative and a desire to better ourselves is a very basic thing. It's why everyday there are so many new and exciting products and service released that we want to purchase.
We'll always require 'expensive' employees. Moaning about our lot will do very little towards recognising that.

Japan stopped growing in the early 1990s and has never restarted growth!

hatrickpatrick

franktheplank wrote: »

We've been divided and conquered, there's still enough groups of cronies being pampered and looked after to prevent a critical mass from occurring.

This. The endless public/private sector feuding is a prime example. It's EXACTLY what the establishment wanted us to do, and we fell for it hook line and sinker.

While we're all attacking eachother, those who created the mess are walking away with what's left of the cash. :mad:

Sergeant

Deleted User wrote: »

Japan stopped growing in the early 1990s and has never restarted growth!

Stopped growing how? The Japanese still have one of the highest standards of living in the world. They became a mature economy and allowed their government to interfere in matters they had no business getting involved in. Other Asian economies unencumbered by such 'principles' have filled the gap. Japan remains a mature and prosperous democracy.

There is no massive 'end of days' crisis in the global economy. This is a cycle. It happens. And the vast majority of people in the world will continue to live longer, eat better and have more access to health care, education and entertainment than ever before.

Cookie_Monster

the simple answer is we are not revolting because the impact on the average person is clearyl not as big as some like to make it out to be and there is simply no need from most people's point of view

BlatentCheek

franktheplank wrote: »

We've been divided and conquered, there's still enough groups of cronies being pampered and looked after to prevent a critical mass from occurring.

Fully agree. Even people without much are kept in a cycle of fear that they may lose what they have, and jealousy that another group has more. Constant government leaks/statements on doomsday cutbacks/taxes and out of context reports on earnings/pensions/perks of groups fairly or unfairly seen as privileged perpetuate this.

This fragmentation is reflected by the way most large protests seem to represent only one, or at least a couple, of groups or interests. eg, student fees protests may strike hard pressed non-students as reeking of a sense of entitlement while anti-austerity protests seem to chiefly feature union representatives or "crusties": with unions mainly representing public sector workers protected by the GPA, indifferent to the plight of private sector workers and perfectly happy to ensure relative penury to new entrants to protect their own incomes it's difficult for anyone else to rally to them; by "crusties" I mean the lifestyle protestors who turn up for anything on molesworth street, some come across as idiots, many come across as informed and well-intentioned, but the mainstream are always going to be turned off by the perception of them as unrealistic pot-smokers with dreadlocks and a penchant for bongo's.


By far the most volatile group in any society is the young. But we have a far stronger emigration tradition than any of the other PIGS, and more emigration opportunities than most Arab countries, and thus our chief catalyst for change has been exported to places like Australia and the UK where they're in gainful employment. Of those young people that remain the trend away from political involvement in the last few decades has left them apathetic and with low expectations from politicians who have learnt that young people are much less likely to vote than their elders; and accordingly treat them with content and put their interests at the bottom of the pecking order.

Sergeant

Sergeant wrote: »

Stopped growing how? The Japanese still have one of the highest standards of living in the world. They became a mature economy and allowed their government to interfere in matters they had no business getting involved in. Other Asian economies unencumbered by such 'principles' have filled the gap. Japan remains a mature and prosperous democracy.

Looks quite weak to me... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan#Postwar_period_.281945.E2.80.93present.29

Sergeant wrote: »

There is no massive 'end of days' crisis in the global economy. This is a cycle. It happens. And the vast majority of people in the world will continue to live longer, eat better and have more access to health care, education and entertainment than ever before.

That's the key point, the global economy may have "flatlined" but much of it is still growing at the expense of the "First world" countries such as the US & Western European countries. Chindia are able to build their economies with high energy costs in mind (just as Britain did at the start of the industrial revolution), their workers are not expected to drive to the factories or live in big houses on daddies farm.

Jev/N

Discounting the Middle East as it's an unfair comparison, OP, what have the Greek people achieved with their mass rioting, violence and destruction?

Nothing. And if anything, they've worsened their only plight by their actions.

Sergeant wrote: »

Stopped growing how? The Japanese still have one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Japan took 20 years to get out of the massive hole they found themselves in. If anything, they're an example of how not to do it

somefeen

I wasn't able to vote for most of the boom years and got very little benefit from it.
I'm helping the economy by ****ing of to a different country so I'm not on the dole.

I think me and and all my cohorts should just disappear and let all you aul wans clean up your mess :pac:

Try and get it sorted in time for us to come back and pay for ye're pensions.

blacklilly

I'm on my way home and ive the hee cups, ,, please help

blacklilly

I'm on my way home and ive the hee cups, ,, please help

Jev/N

Jev/N wrote: »

Discounting the Middle East as it's an unfair comparison, OP, what have the Greek people achieved with their mass rioting, violence and destruction?

Nothing. And if anything, they've worsened their only plight by their actions.



Japan took 20 years to get out of the massive hole they found themselves in. If anything, they're an example of how not to do it

Even now, they're not out of it, and unlikely to ever "recover" as the rest of the world gravitates towards cheaper products.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20722595
Sentiment among Japanese businesses worsened in the three months to December, the Bank of Japan's Tankan survey has indicated, underlining the weakness in the country's economy.
The survey's large manufacturers' index deteriorated to minus 12, from minus three in the previous quarter.
Japanese manufacturers have been hurt by slowing export demand, a strong yen and subdued domestic consumption.

Back in Ireland, we're still in the "hangover" stage after the Celtic Tiger party, if we continue down the present course, we'll be "turning Japanese!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEmJ-VWPDM4

CruelCoin

matt-dublin wrote: »

Looking at whats been going on recently with tax and price hikes all over the place, why are we as a country not doing anything.

Egypt, Syria etc all hate their government and are standing up against them. Ok somewhat of an extreeme example but still. Why are we so happy to sit here and just take all these tax hikes that the government are imposing on us.

Why isn't there ten or even a hundred thousand people marching outside the dail?

Realistically all these new taxes are going to force a lot of people who already resent the home they live in into more arrears and unrecoverable debt.

surely should we not be causing riots, forcing the goverment to back down over property, motor and other taxes????

Most people realise there is no alternative.

The fairy ****ing godmother is not going to wave her wand and magic some cash out of her ass.

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

Most people realise there is no alternative.

The fairy ****ing godmother is not going to wave her wand and magic some cash out of her ass.

The only good thing printing money would achieve is to inflate away the debt, you'll easily repay the €400,000 mortgage, but, a burger would cost €50,000.

Inflation allowed previous generations to get out of debt much quicker than they otherwise would have, a £10,000 mortgage in the 1970s would have been an enormous burden but by the 1990's when the final repayments were due it would have been one of the smaller bills.

CruelCoin

Deleted User wrote: »

The only good thing printing money would achieve is to inflate away the debt, you'll easily repay the €400,000 mortgage, but, a burger would cost €50,000.

Inflation allowed previous generations to get out of debt much quicker than they otherwise would have, a £10,000 mortgage in the 1970s would have been an enormous burden but by the 1990's when the final repayments were due it would have been one of the smaller bills.

I'm not suggesting we print money, we can't while still being in the Euro.

We have two realistic options:
1: Shut up and pay our bills. You owe 10 quid you pay 10 quid. The stupidity of people refusing to accept that you should pay what you owe that is mind-boggling. Not paying is theft, plain and simple, and the bond markets will not soon forget a theft on that scale.
2: Leave the Euro, bring back the punt, print money like crazy, suffer mahoosive inflation, return to growth prematurely and suffer another ****ing bubble 10 years later.

1 makes sense, 2 is just plain dumb.

SpiderHead

[QUOTE=
and in fairness - the government were elected by the people, by a huge majority to govern - dont like the actions they take? dont vote for them the next time , and make sure those that did , dont do it again

and never forget , this is a free country , you can come and go - feel free to leave at ANYTIME if the living conditions ar not to your liking

riot - FFS - something original please[/QUOTE]

So without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

KyussBishop

Deleted User wrote: »

The only good thing printing money would achieve is to inflate away the debt, you'll easily repay the €400,000 mortgage, but, a burger would cost €50,000.

Inflation allowed previous generations to get out of debt much quicker than they otherwise would have, a £10,000 mortgage in the 1970s would have been an enormous burden but by the 1990's when the final repayments were due it would have been one of the smaller bills.

Money creation doesn't automatically lead to inflation, it's how you spend it that determines inflation. Typically, inflation is caused by too much money, chasing too few goods, i.e. demand exceeding supply.

Right now, we have loads of surplus in labour, industry and resources; loads of excess supply for money creation to soak up, before inflation can happen.

matt-dublin

KyussBishop wrote: »

Money creation doesn't automatically lead to inflation, it's how you spend it that determines inflation. Typically, inflation is caused by too much money, chasing too few goods, i.e. demand exceeding supply.

Right now, we have loads of surplus in labour, industry and resources; loads of excess supply for money creation to soak up, before inflation can happen.

Yet prices are continiously going up on everything. so we are still seeing inflation.

matt-dublin

CruelCoin wrote: »

I'm not suggesting we print money, we can't while still being in the Euro.

We have two realistic options:
1: Shut up and pay our bills. You owe 10 quid you pay 10 quid. The stupidity of people refusing to accept that you should pay what you owe that is mind-boggling. Not paying is theft, plain and simple, and the bond markets will not soon forget a theft on that scale.
2: Leave the Euro, bring back the punt, print money like crazy, suffer mahoosive inflation, return to growth prematurely and suffer another ****ing bubble 10 years later.

1 makes sense, 2 is just plain dumb.

Really, because the american banks quite successfully burnt their bond holders and are still flying???

the money we would lose on rates further down the road by burning the bondholders is nothing in comparison to the value of the bonds.

KyussBishop

matt-dublin wrote: »

Yet prices are continiously going up on everything. so we are still seeing inflation.

We are having inflation due to oil and it's affects throughout the entire economy (that's the reverse of what I posted, a loss of supply causing inflation, rather than an increase in demand); we can even pump money creation into alternative power sources, like renewable or nuclear, to ameliorate the inflation caused by oil.

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

Hi Terry its a good idea--I already signed the pledge last night.

You've pledged to vote for whoever Terry 'sells' your vote to?
I hate that phrase 'sheeple', but....

dvpower

matt-dublin wrote: »

Yet prices are continiously going up on everything. so we are still seeing inflation.

We've had very low inflation for the last couple of years and before that we had a period of deflation.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/inflation-cpi

books4sale

Revolt against what? I wouldn't help you if I was paid OP.

Seems like all the 'stupids' on this planet watched their investments go up in schmoke, and now want a revolution to get it back.

.... my time has come, i'm too busy getting my piece of the pie for your little soiree style revolution.

books4sale

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

How do I become a TD ?

Grow a thick skin, get off your behind and become more involved in the local community.

.....but that's probably too much for some who are too busy flicking the remote for their 48" plasma screen all day while they're favourite pastime is giving out about the state of the nation, the lack of work, money and why doesn't someone start a revolution.

ilovesleep

Madam_X wrote: »

I dont know anyone who is apathetic towards it. Theyre all angry but limited in what they can do; not able to offer an alternative... like you.

We had an alternative, last year, to try and get the government to lead by example - with the household charge but people coughed up allowing the gravy train to keep on rolling. It was estimated that the household charge would have brought in approw 1.6 million. We could have forced the hand of the government to cut their own pay and bonuses and expenses etc. Instead 60% coughed up.

Sheer greed, selfishness and carelessness got Ireland into the mess it's in. And greed will not get us out from the mess and yet the government is just that - greedy. Take a look at what Biggins wrote lining their own pockets and protecting themselves. All they care about are themselves. They are not fit to care for this country when all they only care about are themselves. They should be leading by example.

therealgirl

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Would it actually achieve anything other than cause damage to property and potential harm to human life?

I guess it might show we give a ****...they might actually get that people are really angry at them...

We make it easy for them to screw us by giving out a little every time they do something, then just getting on with things...I'd love to see their faces if the whole country went mad protesting....minus the harm to human life that might come of it though!

DEFTLEFTHAND

therealgirl wrote: »

I guess it might show we give a ****...they might actually get that people are really angry at them...

We make it easy for them to screw us by giving out a little every time they do something, then just getting on with things...I'd love to see their faces if the whole country went mad protesting....minus the harm to human life that might come of it though!

These things spiral though and the mob mentality takes over, peaceful protest fine but if a riot sparks lives will be lost. We have to uphold law and order.

therealgirl

I don't think the government give a **** anyway...I mean they get paid loads & live pretty nice lives with their disposable income and such...there are very few people in the whole wide world who give up what they have for the sake of others...so the chance of any of them being in the Irish government are slim

Personally, I would be ashamed if I was earning ridiculous money doing their job & would like to think I would take a pay cut & live modestly in order to lead an example...but I guess you don't get very far in Irish politics thinking like I do

therealgirl

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

These things spiral though and the mob mentality takes over, peaceful protest fine but if a riot sparks lives will be lost. We have to uphold law and order.

Yes I am talking about protesting...but I guess there will always be the scumbags who get involved & want to riot unfortunately...

ah well, back to bending over and taking it up the bottom then :rolleyes:

Trhiggy83

I appreciate people want to protest but to be honest this is not the solution.

Firstly protests dont achieve anything.....Protesting is not a policy and i think the majority of people realise this.

In order to actively change anything, you need to get involved in the process.

I am the last person to encourage others to get involved in politics but if you have very strong feelings on the way the country is being run, then get involved with a politicial party that shares your views.

Sadly the only way anything will be changed is through political decisions, the only way you can affect these decisions is by promoting your beliefs to others.

Politics is a popularity contest basically, and politicians are very good at promising but not delivering.

Fine Gael have proved this recently and so have labour.

People have notoriously short memories, therefore fine fail will probably con there way back in soon enough.... its a vicious circle

DEFTLEFTHAND

therealgirl wrote: »

Yes I am talking about protesting...but I guess there will always be the scumbags who get involved & want to riot unfortunately...

ah well, back to bending over and taking it up the bottom then :rolleyes:

There's nothing wrong with peaceful protest, it's a right we have living in a democracy. It's just that I read the thread title as a call for a revolution which would infer physical force being used, something which I'm strongly opposed to happening in this country.

ilovesleep

ilovesleep wrote: »

Things are so bad the government awarded themselves a 14m expenses package

and added 3m to it last week.

To add to this;

In last weeks budget 13.2 million cuts were made to the education budget and to be more specific it targeted VEC and PLC courses. An attractive option for many now that college and third level is getting too expensive and funds are lacking in many households. A vec or plc course may be the very first step to emerigrating, in which our government relies on heavingly. Yet with the cuts in VEC and PLC and to courses, it's making it harder for people to take up a course which may help them in gaining skills, employment and emerigration.

Some saving this is when the government awarded themselves a 17m expenses package.

FF fcuked up.
FG are banging the nail in the coffin.

KyussBishop

No protests will turn to riots (sure the country as a whole, has been docile enough as it is); simply shutting down essential public (and some private) services, through protest, will put a knife at governments throat; perfectly non-violent way to achieve aims.

Sergeant

KyussBishop wrote: »

No protests will turn to riots (sure the country as a whole, has been docile enough as it is); simply shutting down essential public (and some private) services, through protest, will put a knife at governments throat; perfectly non-violent way to achieve aims.

Can you give some examples of public and private 'services' that would shut down as a result of your vision?

And what would be the result? After putting a 'knife to the governments throat' what would be the next step?

KyussBishop

I haven't stated any 'vision' or desire, I am stating how a protest movement can be successful through entirely non-violent means.

If government was facing up to widepsread social action, crippling any essential services such as those relating to transport, government would straight away need to negotiate terms with the movement to restore order, giving them political influence, or risk sustained strike action and further disruption, which could get increasingly messy as time goes on.

I speak nothing of the potential will for this in Ireland, only of it as a means for non-violent protest.

Sergeant

KyussBishop wrote: »

I haven't stated any 'vision' or desire, I am stating how a protest movement can be successful through entirely non-violent means.

If government was facing up to widepsread social action, crippling any essential services such as those relating to transport, government would straight away need to negotiate terms with the movement to restore order, giving them political influence, or risk sustained strike action and further disruption, which could get increasingly messy as time goes on.

I speak nothing of the potential will for this in Ireland, only of it as a means for non-violent protest.

Can you give examples of essential 'services' that would stop?

And, once the government have bowed down to the will of the movement, what would be the next step?

KyussBishop

I did just answer exactly that? I gave the example of transport (such as public transport), and the disruption from that giving greater political leverage; if the government 'bowed down to the will of the movement', then they've already got the leverage they are looking for.

fonecrusher1

I blames da fardeners.

grenache

We are not revolting for the simple reason that the Irish as a people are inherently lazy and quite happy to take it up the ass from whomever, be it the British for 700 odd years, the EU or the government they themselves elected.