DISGUSTING! HSE killing cats in Galway

boomerang

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Assuming some pencil pusher in the hospital isn't a cat hater & there is a good reason for them to be captured & removed, what do people suggest they do with the cats if they don't euthanise them?

Simple. Volunteers trap the cats and bring them to their vet, who offers their services at a reduced rate. The cats are health-checked, neutered and returned 24 hours later.

Now you have a stable population of healthy cats, who won't reproduce and won't let any more un-neutered, parasitised cats in. Gradually, the number of cats decreases naturally by attrition.

unseenfootage

Apart from the issue with the fleas, the HSE has full right to not want wild cats on its premises.

Even if puss in boots turned up at my doorstep, uninvited I'd be like "Begone furball!"

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

Please explain to me what threat to human health and safety the presence of cats pose? What problems are they posing? We still have no firm link between the cats and some staff in outpatients' having fleas.

Actually, it is both cheaper and more effective to neuter the cats and return them than it is to have Rentokil continually trapping the cats and passing on their fees and the veterinary costs of euthanasia to the HSE.

Euthanasia is not the only solution here. It's not even the best solution.

If they capture 50 cats today then those cats are not automatically replaced tomorrow by other cats. If a vet charges €30 consult fee & then €5 per cat per injection then it is much cheaper than neutering them. It's not a long term solution, chances are other cats will find their way to the same spot eventually, but it is cost effective.
The hospital & the pest control company are looking at those cats as a nuisance, not as pets or potential pets.

TheChizler

boomerang wrote: »

Simple. Volunteers trap the cats and bring them to their vet, who offers their services at a reduced rate.

Not to be pointing out flaws or anything...

Iwannahurl

Replace the word Cat with Rat and see how the story reads:

PEST CONTROL COMPANY TACKLES RAT INFESTATION PROBLEM AT GALWAY HOSPITAL

The HSE West has called in a pest control company to eradicate rats from the grounds of University Hospital Galway.

They've also confirmed this evening that the problem of fleas at the hospital was caused by rats.

A number of staff working in the outpatient department at UHG have been bitten by fleas recently, however there is no sign that patients have been affected.

The HSE has now identified that the bites were caused by rat fleas, and that rats infesting the grounds and outbuildings are one possible source.

It's a Public Health problem and needs to be tackled (should never have been allowed to develop of course).

Why should a feral cat infestation be handled any differently?

tightropetom

boomerang wrote: »

Please explain to me what threat to human health and safety the presence of cats pose? What problems are they posing?

Ever heard of toxoplasmosis?

Also
A colony of unneutered/unspayed feral cats can produce a number of problems, including:

a growing population of cats
frequent and loud noise from fighting and mating behavior
strong foul odors from unneutered male cats spraying to mark their territory
flea infestations
visible suffering from dying kittens and injured adults.
In addition, the shelters in a community with a large, unneutered feral cat population may experience:
higher intake rates of cats into shelters due to the rescue of feral kittens and the capture of feral adults
higher euthanasia rates for all cats due to the unadoptability of feral adults and the necessity to euthanize adoptable animals due to limited cage space
higher animal control costs due to trapping efforts and/or costs associated with caring for and euthanizing feral cats
a constant rate of nuisance complaints about feral cats.

#justsayinlike

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

Simple. Volunteers trap the cats and bring them to their vet, who offers their services at a reduced rate. The cats are health-checked, neutered and returned 24 hours later.

Now you have a stable population of healthy cats, who won't reproduce and won't let any more un-neutered, parasitised cats in. Gradually, the number of cats decreases naturally by attrition.

I can understand that but where does the money come from even at a reduced rate?
Neutering & re release would be ideal. Cats do an important job, you don't need to be a cat lover to acknowledge that much.
But considering most, if not all, rescues are either full to capacity or have very low funds who pays for it? Maybe the volunteers have the time & expertise to capture the cat but they don't have the funds to neuter it? And a veterinary practise is a business looking to make money, offering reduced neutering costs may not be high on their agenda.

boomerang

Volunteers = Galway Cat Rescue, Limerick Feral Cats, Mayo Cat Rescue, EGAR etc etc - any number of volunteer groups around the country willing to help out.

Reduced vet fees: All the above groups have pre-arranged reduced neutering fees with the vets they regularly work with. It varies from 25 to 50 euro per cat, depending on which vets are used. I guarantee you that is cheaper per cat than paying Rentokil to trap it and a vet of their choice to euthanise it.


The toxoplasmosis risk from cats is actually surprisingly low. You are far more likely to contract it from handling raw meat or eating undercooked meat or unwashed vegetables. Regardless, I doubt the staff and patients at the hospital are going out into the grounds to dig out cat poop from the soil with their bare hands?

Indricotherium

Kellford wrote: »

The HSE forgot to mention the mice that have been spotted in there, maybe its these carrying the fleas!

That mouse comment is a red herring. IT doesn't change the fact that there is a problem population of cats there.

boomerang

tightropetom wrote: »

Ever heard of toxoplasmosis?

Also
A colony of unneutered/unspayed feral cats can produce a number of problems, including:

a growing population of cats
frequent and loud noise from fighting and mating behavior
strong foul odors from unneutered male cats spraying to mark their territory
flea infestations
visible suffering from dying kittens and injured adults.
In addition, the shelters in a community with a large, unneutered feral cat population may experience:
higher intake rates of cats into shelters due to the rescue of feral kittens and the capture of feral adults
higher euthanasia rates for all cats due to the unadoptability of feral adults and the necessity to euthanize adoptable animals due to limited cage space
higher animal control costs due to trapping efforts and/or costs associated with caring for and euthanizing feral cats
a constant rate of nuisance complaints about feral cats.

#justsayinlike

That's why we neuter 'em!

Irish rescues do not take in feral cats as they are not adoptable. It's not like in the States where feral cats can be surrendered to an animal control or animal rescue group, with the likelihood that they will all be euthanised to make room for more adoptable cats.

Rescues here favour neutering the cats and returning them to their location. In some instances where the cats are in immediate danger they are relocated where they're wanted.

boomerang

Indricotherium wrote: »

That mouse comment is a red herring. IT doesn't change the fact that there is a problem population of cats there.

What is the problem?

What is the difference between an unowned cat on one side of the UCGH fence, and someone's pet cat in an adjoining estate, who likes to ramble around the grounds?

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

Volunteers = Galway Cat Rescue, Limerick Feral Cats, Mayo Cat Rescue, EGAR etc etc - any number of volunteer groups around the country willing to help out.

Reduced vet fees: All the above groups have pre-arranged reduced neutering fees with the vets they regularly work with. It varies from 25 to 50 euro per cat, depending on which vets are used. I guarantee you that is cheaper per cat than paying Rentokil to trap it and a vet of their choice to euthanise it.


The toxoplasmosis risk from cats is actually surprisingly low. You are far more likely to contract it from handling raw meat or eating undercooked meat or unwashed vegetables. Regardless, I doubt the staff and patients at the hospital are going out into the grounds to dig out cat poop from the soil with their bare hands?

So where are all the volunteers so?
I assume the hospital would prefer for them to remove the cats than have to pay someone like rentokil?

ISDW

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

So where are all the volunteers so?
I assume the hospital would prefer for them to remove the cats than have to pay someone like rentokil?

I think they may be visible pretty soon

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

I didn't say anything about removing the cats.

How do you neuter them if you don't remove them?

boomerang

Relocating the cats is always a last resort, for a number of reasons.

What the volunteers do is trap the cats, transfer them in the traps to their vets for neutering, keep the cats overnight and return them within 24-48 hours. No question of removing the cats permanently except in extreme circumstances where the cats might otherwise be in danger.

GreeBo

Since you are ignoring the question on the impending rat infestation I'll assume you have no recourse.

Moving on.
Why on earth would you want a colony of wild cats living beside a hospital? Isnt that going to attract more cats, neutered or otherwise? You dont see any health issue with wild animals living on hospital grounds?

boomerang

I have the data for you GreeBo, but I have to go pull it out when I'm home. I'm not ignoring the question.

Cats are territorial. They don't readily accept newcomers. That's why by having the existing cats neutered and left in situ stops the population from growing any bigger.

There are no significant health issues to having a population of neutered, monitored "wild cats" living on hospital grounds, any more than there would be a health issues with local, pet cats being on the hospital grounds. These cats aren't truly "wild" - they're just terrified of people. Other than that they're the very same as any domestic moggy.

GreeBo

boomerang wrote: »

I have the data for you GreeBo, but I have to go pull it out when I'm home. I'm not ignoring the question.

Cats are territorial. They don't readily accept newcomers. That's why by having the existing cats neutered and left in situ stops the population from growing any bigger.

There are no significant health issues to having a population of neutered, monitored "wild cats" living on hospital grounds, any more than there would be a health issues with local, pet cats being on the hospital grounds. These cats aren't truly "wild" - they're just terrified of people. Other than that they're the very same as any domestic moggy.

There is no data thats going to show that removing cats causes an infestation of vermin when there was no vermin before.

Going on your previous logic, wouldnt this posse of cats be leaving numerous dead vermin around the hospital grounds? Or do they tidy up after themselves once they have been neutered?
Not to mention the defecating/urinating about the place? Cats piss is great stuff for the kids.
Also wouldnt they be constantly trying to get into the nearest source of food i.e. inside the hospital?

Who are the magical people doing the monitoring btw? More of your "volunteers"?
Perhaps we should cut the hospital by a couple of doctors to pay for some volunteers?

boomerang

You know what GreeBo, it's actually not worth my time or effort giving you the scientifically-verified facts on rat biology and behaviour, or feral cats or how ferals can be successfully managed humanely. You don't seem to know a lot about feral cats because you ask questions that to me appear naive, yet you seem to have a keen urge to disprove my points, regardless.

I take serious offence at your sneering tone with regard to volunteerism in cases like this. I am sure it comes as some some surprise to a lot of people, but yes, responsible management of neutered feral colonies involves constant monitoring to ensure none of the cats are sick, that they have adequate food and shelter, that no un-neutered cats have entered the area, and that the cats are routinely treated for worms, fleas etc. It also involves having an ongoing relationship with the people in the area to address any concerns. This is what unpaid volunteer TNR groups do, all the time.


Feral cats are terrified of people and contrary to popular opinion, they would rather go hungry than chance entering a building with lots of people in it to find food. They're not malevolent, scheming or vicious. They're not going to maul you or eat your children. They're just scared cats.

Cats don't like to eat rats, but some with a strong hunting instinct will stalk and kill them. Rats instinctively recognise cats as predators by their smell - where there are cats, rat colonies are reduced in numbers and will dissipate altogether.

Cat pee and cat poo poses no greater risk than that of dogs, rabbits, foxes, hedgehogs, garden birds, mice or any of the other animals that can be found on the grounds of a hospital or any other green area in an urban setting. In fact, for the most part, cat pee and poop poses far less of a risk. I could go into the zoonotic risks associated with these individual species and discuss their signficance in terms of public health, but I couldn't be bothered, just for your sake.

boomerang

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Fleas transmit a variety of diseases. In a environment like a hospital, this could prove to be lethal for most patients with already compromised immune systems. The problem needs to be removed. They also point out in the article that rehoming is a option. I'm not sure where the hatred is coming from, they are targeting a very specific problem in a very specific area.

Hospital management have apologised for any "discomfort" or worry caused by the flea infestation in the outpatients' department. This is not a serious disease outbreak. Heck, they still haven't even told us which species of flea they are dealing with.

If the infestation were to spread to the wards, I would seriously have to question the standard of hygiene in the hospital.

4,000 people visit the outpatients' department every week. I guarantee you it was either a patient or member of staff that brought the first fleas in with them. I haven't seen any cats on hospital trolleys lately. Fleas are obligate parasites and are highly unlikely to transfer to another host unless there is direct contact. That's why I find it impossible to believe that some cats on the hospital grounds that flee human contact are somehow responsible.

planetX

Because the fleas are cat-fleas does not mean that they came from cats in the vicinity. Unless those cats were being brought inside the outpatient dept, which is highly unlikely since we're told they're ferals. Anyone with cats or dogs at home could have brought in something carrying flea eggs, and this has happened before. The extermination is purely a publicity stunt because the hospital is getting bad press about their hygiene.
Also, the hospital is in a very densely populated area, there would be plenty of cats visiting which would not be ferals. People's pets could be carted off by rentokil, to meet what kind of end?

loveisdivine

GreeBo your post seems to just be filled with sarcastic comments aimed purely at antagonising people like boomerang.

Trapping and neutering works. Simple as. It reduces the population to a manageable level.

I'm not at all surprised a few people have thrown in the old "what about the children" nonsense! I'm sure that loads of precious children are running round the hospital grounds rubbing cat poo all over themselves right now!
Its a total non issue. A feral cat wont come anywhere near you.

I hate the word 'pest'. Humans are the biggest "pest" of them all.

Oh and also -

Who are the magical people doing the monitoring btw? More of your "volunteers"?
Perhaps we should cut the hospital by a couple of doctors to pay for some volunteers?

I would suggest looking up the word "volunteer" in the dictionary. Nobody pays them, they do it because they give a sh*t.

snubbleste

What about the poor fleas?
Where's the outrage of their "eradication"?

kylith

TNR may stabilise the cat population, for the time being, but it does nothing to solve the problem of animal faeces, urine, and especially the parasites with which the hospital is concerned. Yes, the fleas may have come from a pet cat in someone's house, but the staff can make sure that their cats are treated, it is not feasible to treat the feral cats, and even if it were they'd pick up fleas again and the hospital would be back to square one, so treatment would have to be ongoing, which is, as I said, infeasible.

And whoever said that feral cats won't go into buildings should really tell that to the moggy I had to hunt away from the back door in work the other day.

mitosis

loveisdivine wrote: »

Oh and also -

I would suggest looking up the word "volunteer" in the dictionary. Nobody pays them, they do it because they give a sh*t.

So where are these volunteers in UHG? Why don't you go collect a few?

mitosis

boomerang wrote: »

Heck, they still haven't even told us which species of flea they are dealing with.

Have you even asked?

loveisdivine

mitosis wrote: »

So where are these volunteers in UHG? Why don't you go collect a few?

Because I live in Dublin and I try and help out where I can with the feral cats in my estate.

DBB

As my early plea to posters in this thread seems to have faded into distant memory, a pity given that the first half of the thread was civil and largely constructive, I must now warn posters that any more sarcastic, snide, inflammatory, accusatory comments will result in an immediate ban with no warning.
Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

boomerang

kylith wrote: »

TNR may stabilise the cat population, for the time being, but it does nothing to solve the problem of animal faeces, urine, and especially the parasites with which the hospital is concerned. Yes, the fleas may have come from a pet cat in someone's house, but the staff can make sure that their cats are treated, it is not feasible to treat the feral cats, and even if it were they'd pick up fleas again and the hospital would be back to square one, so treatment would have to be ongoing, which is, as I said, infeasible.

And whoever said that feral cats won't go into buildings should really tell that to the moggy I had to hunt away from the back door in work the other day.

You're actually wrong, Kylith.

It's not unfeasible to treat feral cats against parasites - we do it routinely and we don't expect anyone else to bear the cost.

You're also assuming here that the current flea infestation came from the cats on the grounds. That's practically an impossibility, for reasons I won't bore you with here. So whether or not the cats there are re-infested is irrelevant.

I know you're an animal lover like myself, but I'll tell ya what really frustrates me. There are a million and one health risks in any public space. Some from other people (e.g. MRSA, winter vomiting bug) the environment (e.g. pseudomonas) and some from every species of animal, be it alive or dead. All of varying seriousness. Probably if we thought about it all, we'd never leave the house, never mind enter a hospital.

But for some reason, again and again when it comes to cats, they are allowed no leeway whatsoever, despite people like myself providing sound, impartial, scientific evidence that cats do not present anything like the kind of risk to public health that people fear.

Get some willing volunteers to neuter the cats - that's easy. They'll even pay for it themselves. The same volunteers will monitor the cats, treat for parasites, trap and neuter any new strays to the area and tend to any cats that appear injured or diseased.

What further risks do the cats pose? None. Just wash your hands. That's pretty much it.

Logic doesn't appear to come in to these kind of debates over cats. There is a vein in Irish attitudes to cats that is extremely ugly and heartless. A lot of people in my experience wish ill on these cats with a vengeance that defies reason.

And if that cat was hanging around the back door at work - it most definitely is NOT feral.

mikom

I was in UCHG for a CAT scan yesterday.
I can confirm that they are all dead.