DISGUSTING! HSE killing cats in Galway

boomerang

snubbleste wrote: »

What about the poor fleas?
Where's the outrage of their "eradication"?

I wouldn't be worried about those lads, snubbleste.

Themselves and cockroaches - our future masters.

kylith

boomerang wrote: »

You're actually wrong, Kylith.

It's not unfeasible to treat feral cats against parasites - we do it routinely and we don't expect anyone else to bear the cost.

You're also assuming here that the current flea infestation came from the cats on the grounds. That's practically an impossibility, for reasons I won't bore you with here. So whether or not the cats there are re-infested is irrelevant.

I know you're an animal lover like myself, but I'll tell ya what really frustrates me. There are a million and one health risks in any public space. Some from other people (e.g. MRSA, winter vomiting bug) the environment (e.g. pseudomonas) and some from every species of animal, be it alive or dead. All of varying seriousness. Probably if we thought about it all, we'd never leave the house, never mind enter a hospital.

But for some reason, again and again when it comes to cats, they are allowed no leeway whatsoever, despite people like myself providing sound, impartial, scientific evidence that cats do not present anything like the kind of risk to public health that people fear.

Get some willing volunteers to neuter the cats - that's easy. They'll even pay for it themselves. The same volunteers will monitor the cats, treat for parasites, trap and neuter any new strays to the area and tend to any cats that appear injured or diseased.

What further risks do the cats pose? None. Just wash your hands. That's pretty much it.

Logic doesn't appear to come in to these kind of debates over cats. There is a vein in Irish attitudes to cats that is extremely ugly and heartless. A lot of people in my experience wish ill on these cats with a vengeance that defies reason.

And if that cat was hanging around the back door at work - it most definitely is NOT feral.

Actually, I'd love to be bored with the reason why an infestation of cat fleas is more likely to have come from a domestic cat miles away than a colony of feral cats on the doorstep. And if you routinely treat feral cats for parasites I'm sure that UHCG would be delighted if you offered them your expertise.

There does indeed seem to be a vein of heartlessness amongst the people allowing cats to roam and breed without a thought for their welfare. It's people like that who have led to the feral cat situation in Ireland today. At least the majority of posters here neuter their cats.

The bottom line is that the board of UCHG wanted a group of possibly diseased animals removed from their grounds. They are entitled to have this done as the animals are not protected under law, being a non-native and invasive species. Any that could be rehomed were rehomed, any which could not be rehomed were humanely euthanised, which is more than a lot of species would get. I'm sorry that any animals had to be killed, but I'm more sorry that the situation was so bad that the Board felt that was the best option.

And it is a feral cat in work, it was hanging around looking for the woman who used to feed it. She was told to stop several months ago because more and more cats were being attracted by the food and the building's owners were worried, funnily enough, about the possibility of illness being spread by the faeces.

GreeBo

boomerang wrote: »

You know what GreeBo, it's actually not worth my time or effort giving you the scientifically-verified facts on rat biology and behaviour,

Ok, so the basis for your argument is that removing a recent, temporary cat problem will suddenly cause a rat infestation where there was none before?

boomerang wrote: »

I take serious offence at your sneering tone with regard to volunteerism in cases like this. I am sure it comes as some some surprise to a lot of people, but yes, responsible management of neutered feral colonies involves constant monitoring to ensure none of the cats are sick, that they have adequate food and shelter, that no un-neutered cats have entered the area, and that the cats are routinely treated for worms, fleas etc. It also involves having an ongoing relationship with the people in the area to address any concerns. This is what unpaid volunteer TNR groups do, all the time.

Who pays for this management? Who provides the food and shelter? This all costs money.
Again, why would you want ta have wild cats living on hospital grounds? Why would you want any wild animals living near a hospital?

boomerang wrote: »

Feral cats are terrified of people and contrary to popular opinion, they would rather go hungry than chance entering a building with lots of people in it to find food. They're not malevolent, scheming or vicious. They're not going to maul you or eat your children. They're just scared cats.

Ok, so they wouldnt attack the hospital bins then?
I'm not worried about them attacking any children, I dont believe I ever mentioned that I was.

boomerang wrote: »

Cats don't like to eat rats, but some with a strong hunting instinct will stalk and kill them. Rats instinctively recognise cats as predators by their smell - where there are cats, rat colonies are reduced in numbers and will dissipate altogether.

I have no problem understanding how a bunch of cats will keep rats away. I dont understand how a lack of cats suddenly causes a rat infestation like you implied.
What will these hunting cats do with their victims? They wont bring them back to play with?

boomerang wrote: »

Cat pee and cat poo poses no greater risk than that of dogs, rabbits, foxes, hedgehogs, garden birds, mice or any of the other animals that can be found on the grounds of a hospital or any other green area in an urban setting. In fact, for the most part, cat pee and poop poses far less of a risk. I could go into the zoonotic risks associated with these individual species and discuss their signficance in terms of public health, but I couldn't be bothered, just for your sake.

I dont want piles of any animal crap around my hospital thanks.

boomerang

Coolio, I'll post up some information on fleas so, Kylith. Not til later though because I have to rouse myself and go help out at a car boot sale. :P

I'll post up some info I researched and wrote on feral cats and public health now, because I have that to hand on the PC. The flea stuff I have to write from memory.

I don't think the situation was bad at all. Nurses at the hospital there have said there have often been flea outbreaks in the hospital over the years, and thefleas invariably came in on the patients themselves from their homes! :O

This current population of cats have been on the grounds for at least two years. So this idea that the flea outbreak occurred at the same time the 15 cats 'showed up' a few weeks ago is a nonsense. The hospital aren't even saying that the flea outbreak can be attributed to the cats.

The moggy at work still cannot be classed as feral, Kylith, not by strict definition. Semi-feral, or an ex-domestic cat, deffo.

boomerang

This was written for the general public so it's not technical. If anyone wants references to the scientific papers I based this information on, I'm happy to post them too.

We often receive calls from people who are afraid to let their children out in the garden because feral cats are passing through. But despite people’s fears, the transmission of zoonotic infections from cats to humans is relatively uncommon. Let’s have a look at these diseases:

Toxocariasis: The acquisition of dog or cat roundworm infection by humans

It is difficult to quantify the incidence of human toxocariasis, but an Irish study conducted in 2004 gives some indication. In a study of 121,156 Irish schoolchildren, only one in 10,000 were thought to be suffering the effects of ocular larva migrans. The incidence would be expected to be lower in adults, who are more conscious of the need for hand hygiene.

Any parasitised dog or cat that defecates outdoors adds to long-term contamination of the soil, but dogs are the primary source of infection. The cat roundworm, Toxocara cati is rarely implicated in the condition, because outdoor cats tend to bury their faeces and the litter trays of indoor cats are usually cleaned out before the eggs reach the infective stage. Treatment of feral cat colonies with anti-helminthics is part and parcel of responsible colony management.


Toxoplasmosis: A disease caused by the miniscule protozoa, Toxoplasma gondii. The majority of cases are asymptomatic and go undetected, but infection can cause serious harm to the unborn child if the mother acquires the infection early in her pregnancy.

Congenital toxoplasmosis is rare in Ireland, unlike on the continent, where pre-natal screening is compulsory. The risk of acquiring toxoplasmosis from a cat is extremely small. Most people are infected through other routes such as handling raw meat or eating undercooked meat or unwashed fruit and vegetables.

A two year study by the Rotunda published in December 2011 showed that out of 15 recorded cases of congenital toxoplasmosis, the predominant cause of infection was handling uncooked meat or eating undercooked meat. Contact with cats was reported in just one case.

Simple hygiene measures considerably reduce the risk of infection from cats and other sources. Fresh cat faeces do not pose a risk as it takes five days for the oocysts to become infectious. Wear gloves when handling garden soil however and wash your hands afterwards.

iguana

boomerang wrote: »

Toxoplasmosis: A disease caused by the miniscule protozoa, Toxoplasma gondii. The majority of cases are asymptomatic and go undetected, but infection can cause serious harm to the unborn child if the mother acquires the infection early in her pregnancy.

Congenital toxoplasmosis is rare in Ireland, unlike on the continent, where pre-natal screening is compulsory. The risk of acquiring toxoplasmosis from a cat is extremely small. Most people are infected through other routes such as handling raw meat or eating undercooked meat or unwashed fruit and vegetables.

A two year study by the Rotunda published in December 2011 showed that out of 15 recorded cases of congenital toxoplasmosis, the predominant cause of infection was handling uncooked meat or eating undercooked meat. Contact with cats was reported in just one case.

Simple hygiene measures considerably reduce the risk of infection from cats and other sources. Fresh cat faeces do not pose a risk as it takes five days for the oocysts to become infectious. Wear gloves when handling garden soil however and wash your hands afterwards.

The risk of toxoplasmosis from cats may be small but UCHG has a very busy maternity unit. Meaning that pretty much everyone in the area who is most at risk from infection has no choice but to go there. It would be unacceptable for the hospital to ignore that risk because as it's not a big risk the consequences of infection to the foetus can be enormous.

SillyMangoX

But the people walking into and out of the maternity will hardly be handling the cats faeces so its not reallly a risk factor.

iguana

SillyMangoX wrote: »

But the people walking into and out of the maternity will hardly be handling the cats faeces so its not reallly a risk factor.

Exactly why do I clean up my dog poo then? It's not like anyone will ever handle it.:rolleyes:

Or maybe it's because when there is fecal matter left in areas that people walk through it has a way of getting trod on or buggies wheeled through it. If the amount of cats living around the hospital is significant, then there will be significant amounts of fecal matter containing a parasite which can cause severe damage to the patients of that hospital. I don't like the idea of the cats being pts either but realistically the hospital can't allow a large colony of cats, neutered or not, to live around it.

SillyMangoX

But the thing with cats is they arent like dogs, they are fastidious about their faeces and will go away and bury it, very unlikely for anyone to come into contact with it unless they are digging through earth, they dont just drop in public footpaths etc

mitosis

SillyMangoX wrote: »

But the thing with cats is they arent like dogs, they are fastidious about their faeces and will go away and bury it, very unlikely for anyone to come into contact with it unless they are digging through earth, they dont just drop in public footpaths etc

That's just not true. They are not fastidious, they sometimes bury it. My local cats defecate anywhere there is grass, soil or sand. It tends to get partially buried in sand, otherwise it's just left there.

SillyMangoX

When it comes to ferals they are more likely to bury to hide their traces from any predators, neighbourhood wandering cats arent the same as ferals.

iguana

SillyMangoX wrote: »

When it comes to ferals they are more likely to bury to hide their traces from any predators, neighbourhood wandering cats arent the same as ferals.

They don't bury it. They throw a light layer of dirt over the top which can make it more likely to get trod in as it's harder for people to see it and avoid it.

planetX

If you want to be that hygenic hospitals shouldn't have any green areas in the grounds that might harbour any wildlife whatsoever. Birds should be eradicated because their excrement could be walked in.
This in a hospital where much more basic hygiene would make so much more of a difference to eradicate life-threatening germs, which does not include fleas.
It's a publicity stunt, nothing more.

SillyMangoX

But ifthey are feral cats they wont be deficating in places where there is high human traffic ie the path into/out of the hospital.

aN.Droid

They are a pest that should not be around anywhere that needs to be kept sterile.

SillyMangoX

I wouldnt think the grounds of the hospital is considered sterile, quite the opposite actually. Fair enough if they were inside but they werent.

aN.Droid

SillyMangoX wrote: »

I wouldnt think the grounds of the hospital is considered sterile, quite the opposite actually. Fair enough if they were inside but they werent.

Maybe so but what if they did get in or any parasite they may carry such as fleas and ticks were jumping around?

SillyMangoX

A feral cat wouldnt try to get in, they are petrified of humans and will do anything to avoid contact.

Dr Turk Turkelton

unseenfootage wrote: »

They could get dogs to keep the cats at bay.

Then a pack of wolves to keep the dogs at bay...!

aN.Droid

SillyMangoX wrote: »

A feral cat wouldnt try to get in, they are petrified of humans and will do anything to avoid contact.

Again maybe so but that doesnt stop them from spreading disease through other means like parasites.

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Then a pack of wolves to keep the dogs at bay...!

Then gorrilas?

Bullseye1

I love cats and dogs but feral cats are pests responsible for killing native wildlife. Their population needs to be controlled. Obviously if they are to be killed it should be done as humanely as possible.

unseenfootage

Sometimes it helps to put things into perspective.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1926808543001/

iguana

planetX wrote: »

If you want to be that hygenic hospitals shouldn't have any green areas in the grounds that might harbour any wildlife whatsoever. Birds should be eradicated because their excrement could be walked in.
This in a hospital where much more basic hygiene would make so much more of a difference to eradicate life-threatening germs, which does not include fleas.
It's a publicity stunt, nothing more.

My concerns are not about general hygiene, they are about a very particular parasite, commonly found in cat faeces which can have seriously horrible consequences for a particular subset of patients who use this hospital. Congenital toxoplasmosis cases may be rare but the consequences can be truly horrific.

honerbright

iguana wrote: »

My concerns are not about general hygiene, they are about a very particular parasite, commonly found in cat faeces which can have seriously horrible consequences for a particular subset of patients who use this hospital. Congenital toxoplasmosis cases may be rare but the consequences can be truly horrific.

Unless these patients are going around touching the faeces, whats the difference between the cats loving on the grounds and those living anywhere else where people are around?


Also, my partner worked at the hospital 5 days a week for 4 years and never once seen these cats, so how did they magically cause their fleas to turn up in the hospital.

boomerang

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I love cats and dogs but feral cats are pests responsible for killing native wildlife. Their population needs to be controlled. Obviously if they are to be killed it should be done as humanely as possible.

Do feral cats endanger wildlife?

Lots of people nuture garden birds and love to feed them, especially in the cold of winter. Not surprisingly, the bird lovers amongst us tend to have a pretty negative view of feral cats. Feral cats also fall foul of conservation groups, who argue that feral cat predation contributes to the decline of endangered species.

Cats are adept at catching fledglings beginning to try their wings, but are far less successful when it comes to adult birds.

The natural mortality rate of young garden birds is already extremely high, so that cat predation has little impact. Garden bird populations are abundant despite massive culling by various predators, including cats.

The same cannot be said for endangered species such as the corncrakes of Tory Island, Co. Donegal, where the stray and feral cat population was culled in recent years for the birds’ protection. The deleterious effect of introduced predators on island ecologies is well documented. But other than in documented cases of cat predation on island prey species, the impact of cats on wildlife including birds is hard to assess. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds acquits cats of significant overall harm to songbird populations.

~boomerang

boomerang

Limericks wrote: »

Maybe so but what if they did get in or any parasite they may carry such as fleas and ticks were jumping around?

Cat fleas are a minor nuisance to people. They inhabit dog and cat fur, and should they land on a human, a bite or two is sufficient for them to hop off again in disgust.

Ticks don't jump around, and even if they did, it is extremely rare for cats to get them. I've cared for hundreds of cats and kittens over the years and have yet to find a tick on one. As yet and very thankfully, tick-borne diseases such as Lyme disease are still very rare in Ireland. In Ireland it's a sheep tick that attaches to people, dogs, cats and other warm-blooded animals.

Cat lice are also extremely rare and are species-specific so pose no threat to human health. (Not that lice such as head lice are anything more than a nuisance to humans, anyways.)

Ear mites of dogs and cats: Same story. I guarantee you you will never contract ear mites from a feral cat. Requires direct contact and survives a very, very short time on human skin. No treatment necessary.

Sarcoptic mange: Unusual to find this in cats and again requires direct contact so there is a ridiculously tiny chance you might contract it from a feral cat. You are infinitely more likely to contract it from shaking hands or sharing bedding with an infected person. Yok.

Ringworm? Children and the immuno-compromised such as the elderly are most susceptible to infection from affected cats. It is practically impossible to contract ringworm from a feral cat as transmission requires direct body contact. Theoretically you might contract ringworm by touching the spot where a feral cat regularly sleeps. As they sleep in as secluded and inaccessible a spot as they can find and shun all human interactions, the chances of this happening are virtually nil.

Cat roundworms? Rarely implicated in cases of human toxocariosis and infection is down to the person's poor personal hygiene. All soil is full of all kinds of potentially harmful toxins, insects, fungi, bacteria and parasitic eggs. Everyone should wash their hands after handling soil/gardening and teach their kids to do the same.

Not only is congenital toxoplasmosis rare, it is rarer still to be acquired through contact with cat faeces. Plenty of pregnant women maintain contact with their pet cats through pregnancy. The risk is eliminated by simple handwashing.

I hope all this info helps put things in perspective.There are thousands of zoonotic diseases that are far more devastating than any we risk acquiring from cats in this country.

We should cull all our dogs, cows, sheep, pigs, goats and chickens that come within an ass's roar of a human too, given the risk of acquiring brucellosis, tuberculosis, Johne's disease, Aujetsky's disease, leptospirosis, toxoplasmosis, trichinosis, giardiasis or cryptosporidium, E-coli, salmonella, listeria or campylobacter infection...



See where I'm coming from?

boomerang

mitosis wrote: »

That's just not true. They are not fastidious, they sometimes bury it. My local cats defecate anywhere there is grass, soil or sand. It tends to get partially buried in sand, otherwise it's just left there.

All cats are fastidious and normally bury their faeces to instinctively hide their presence from other predators, but not always.

Leaving faeces unburied is most commonly territorial behaviour by un-neutered toms, same idea as male dogs weeing on lamposts/any vertical surface!

It also occurs in built-up areas where the cats don't have an alternative place to go - for instance, city centres, gardens without flower beds or green areas that aren't bordered by hedging with soft soil beneath. I agree it can be a nuisance but a feral cat is not going to defecate in areas where there is a constant flow of human traffic.

And before you all jump in, it's not that I think cats pooing in flower beds is acceptable!

Also, without being facetious, do you know how incredibly similar cat poo can look to dog poo? A long time ago this came as a HUGE shock to me.

kylith

unseenfootage wrote: »

Sometimes it helps to put things into perspective.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1926808543001/

Gods, they must be wreaking havoc on the local wildlife.

newmug

Not trying to derail the thread or anything, but we have some people in this country trying to legalise abortion, ie the killing of human children, while others are trying to oppose the killing of a pest around our hospitals, ie feral cats.

While I dont condone the killing of any living creature, you need to put things in perspective. Priorities people, priorities.

SillyMangoX

Well in fairness this is the animal and pet issues forum so we are discussing animal issues, not human ones.