Got Screwed - iPhone 5 now blocked (reported lost/stolen a month after purchase)

g1tm

I think guys that I'll take it as far as I can, I do want to see the guy rightfully punished for it, but don't want to run my chances of getting it un-blocked again

So step by step, three - insurance company, gaurds.

I have proof that transaction was done at the house, he txt me his address and I still have that text conversation.

RangeR

g1tm wrote: »

Yea, that would make sense, but only if it was a valid claim that they paid out for.

AFAIK someone needs to report it within 24 hours, then usually wait 30 days incase it is found, then they pay out. It wouldn't be the property of the insurance company until they pay out.

I know you don't want to hear this but if it doesn't belong to the insurance company, it sure belongs to Three UNTIL THE END OF THE CONTRACT.

If this phone is under a billpay contract [I'd say it was as Three blocked it*] the guy who took you r money had no right to sell it as it wasn't his.


* It may not even be a Three phone. At the very least, the Irish networks share a Block list. To be honest, I believe this is Euro wide. Under Data Protection Laws, you will get next to no information from Three. This is not them being dicks. The law forbids them discussing this with anyone other than those named on the contract [or authorised contact].

bardcom

Are you not the valid owner? You have the original box and receipt and you purchased the phone. That's proof of purchase. Three have no right to block the phone if you can show you are the valid owner. It's your device, you've done nothing wrong.

If Three claim the device is lost, then you can simply have a conversation along the lines of "No, it's not. I'm the owner." And send them the receipt.

If Three claim the device was stolen, then "Stolen from who? I'm the owner. I can prove I'm the owner. Has the other claimant filed a report with the Guards?"

There must be some onus of responsibility with Three to check their facts before they block a phone. So if there's a dispute, they must also have a dispute resolution process. If you make it clear that you're willing to go to the Guards with the phone with your proof of purchase, I don't see how Three can enforce the block.

You have to keep trying with this. Don't get fobbed off.

drunkmonkey

g1tm wrote: »

So step by step, three - insurance company, gaurds.

Your making an assumption it's insurance fraud. I don't think it based on what you've said so far. What I think happened was the guy took it out on contract, never paid the first bill and 3 blocked the phone. (You will never no this for sure).
The insurance company will be no use as it's not an insurance scam and the Gardai will be of no help as the phone is not stolen. 3 will pursue the guy for defaulting on the contract and try and get some of their money back or try and secure a conviction as to prevent him from continuing to con people.

As the phone is not yours, nobody in 3 or the Insurance company will deal with you as they guy who conned you is protected by data protection laws. You can't find out exactly what happend.

Selling the phone on ebay could backfire and Vodafone & 3 block their phones Europe wide.

As it is it's worth about €250/€300 for parts, I think that's about the best your going to get out of it. There is no way 3 will unblock that phone.

_Whimsical_

g1tm wrote: »

I think guys that I'll take it as far as I can, I do want to see the guy rightfully punished for it, but don't want to run my chances of getting it un-blocked again

So step by step, three - insurance company, gaurds.

I have proof that transaction was done at the house, he txt me his address and I still have that text conversation.

Very weird that this guy would be scam artist if he gave you his home address. If this is the case he is possibly Ireland's dumbest criminal. This is fantastic that you have it though as it gives you a lot of leverage.

I hope it works out. This story definitely will put a stop to me looking longingly at iPhones on adverts.ie etc I'm afraid.

.

Soarer

bardcom wrote: »

Are you not the valid owner? You have the original box and receipt and you purchased the phone. That's proof of purchase. Three have no right to block the phone if you can show you are the valid owner. It's your device, you've done nothing wrong.

If Three claim the device is lost, then you can simply have a conversation along the lines of "No, it's not. I'm the owner." And send them the receipt.

If Three claim the device was stolen, then "Stolen from who? I'm the owner. I can prove I'm the owner. Has the other claimant filed a report with the Guards?"

There must be some onus of responsibility with Three to check their facts before they block a phone. So if there's a dispute, they must also have a dispute resolution process. If you make it clear that you're willing to go to the Guards with the phone with your proof of purchase, I don't see how Three can enforce the block.

You have to keep trying with this. Don't get fobbed off.

This.

The phone is yours, and you have a receipt. Should be case closed really.

RangeR

bardcom wrote: »

Are you not the valid owner?

No. The rest of your post is based on the premise of "yes" being the answer so is not relevant.
Just because you pay for something, doesn't make you the owner; if the seller is not entitled to sell it.

_Whimsical_

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your making an assumption it's insurance fraud. I don't think it based on what you've said so far. What I think happened was the guy took it out on contract, never paid the first bill and 3 blocked the phone. (You will never no this for sure).

I had never thought of this but it sounds the most likely scenario given that the guy wasn't shifty enough to meet you somewhere neutral. That would seriously suck.

g1tm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I had never thought of this but it sounds the most likely scenario given that the guy wasn't shifty enough to meet you somewhere neutral. That would seriously suck.

No guys, just to be clear on this point, Three confirmed to me that it was reported lost / stolen by the person who had the contract, not that the contract was not paid - Hence Three cust service telling me I had to tell the guy I bought it off to "Un-Report it stolen".

g1tm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your making an assumption it's insurance fraud. I don't think it based on what you've said so far. What I think happened was the guy took it out on contract, never paid the first bill and 3 blocked the phone. (You will never no this for sure).
The insurance company will be no use as it's not an insurance scam and the Gardai will be of no help as the phone is not stolen. 3 will pursue the guy for defaulting on the contract and try and get some of their money back or try and secure a conviction as to prevent him from continuing to con people.

As the phone is not yours, nobody in 3 or the Insurance company will deal with you as they guy who conned you is protected by data protection laws. You can't find out exactly what happend.

Selling the phone on ebay could backfire and Vodafone & 3 block their phones Europe wide.

As it is it's worth about €250/€300 for parts, I think that's about the best your going to get out of it. There is no way 3 will unblock that phone.

No guys, just to be clear on this point, Three confirmed to me that it was reported lost / stolen by the person who had the contract, not that the contract was not paid - Hence Three cust service telling me I had to tell the guy I bought it off to "Un-Report it stolen".

bardcom

RangeR wrote: »

No. The rest of your post is based on the premise of "yes" being the answer so is not relevant.
Just because you pay for something, doesn't make you the owner; if the seller is not entitled to sell it.

True, but first, ownership has to be established. How did Three establish that the guy making the "lost/stolen" call was the valid owner? Seems to me that the guy with the box and the receipt is in the driving seat on that score.

bardcom

g1tm wrote: »

No guys, just to be clear on this point, Three confirmed to me that it was reported lost / stolen by the person who had the contract, not that the contract was not paid - Hence Three cust service telling me I had to tell the guy I bought it off to "Un-Report it stolen".

So he has probably gotten himself a replacement iPhone. Leaning towards looking like Insurance fraud.

Reoil

Soarer wrote: »

This.

The phone is yours, and you have a receipt. Should be case closed really.

Nope. What if somebody swiped the iPhone from somebody leaving the Three store just after buying it?

g1tm

Reoil wrote: »

Nope. What if somebody swiped the iPhone from somebody leaving the Three store just after buying it?

It was reported stolen over a month after original purchase.

And you have to wait min 30 days on phone insurance policies before your covered.....

RangeR

bardcom wrote: »

True, but first, ownership has to be established. How did Three establish that the guy making the "lost/stolen" call was the valid owner? Seems to me that the guy with the box and the receipt is in the driving seat on that score.

A receipt is just proof of purchase, not proof YOU purchased it. There will be a name on the Three contract. THIS is the registered user. Three are still the owner until the contract is discharged.

I believe we are not talking about NetFree stock here, but subsidised postpaid contract phone.

Savman

bardcom wrote: »

There must be some onus of responsibility with Three to check their facts before they block a phone. So if there's a dispute, they must also have a dispute resolution process. If you make it clear that you're willing to go to the Guards with the phone with your proof of purchase, I don't see how Three can enforce the block.

Not being smart but clearly you've not had dealings with Three's infamous Customer Service centre, it usually consists of a call centre in India somewhere with agents who are polite as anything telling you they haven't the first damn clue what your issue is let alone try solve it. 3 Customer Service is quite a maddening process at the best of times.

Getting a hold of someone on this island who has the authority to sanction blocking/unblocking or will even look into it, will be an extremely difficult task. OP you could try the Three forum on boards and see if they will help but my guess is they won't discuss anything about anyone else's account or affairs as it would a data protection issue.

Sounds like a right mess anyway, I do go along with the view that it's most likely insurance fraud and someone got a phone on upgrade, sold it for a hefty profit then claimed off insurance. You're talking nearly €1k worth of a scam for little work and virtually no risk. Pretty inventive scheme that serves as a reminder about buying the latest gadgets on the second hand market, something I would never do, its less of a risk with older models that are past their period of being the trendy "must-have" machine.

Good luck in your quest FWIW.

Dublinstiofán

Savman wrote: »

Not being smart but clearly you've not had dealings with Three's infamous Customer Service centre, it usually consists of a call centre in India somewhere with agents who are polite as anything telling you they haven't the first damn clue what your issue is let alone try solve it. 3 Customer Service is quite a maddening process at the best of times.

Getting a hold of someone on this island who has the authority to sanction blocking/unblocking or will even look into it, will be an extremely difficult task. OP you could try the Three forum on boards and see if they will help but my guess is they won't discuss anything about anyone else's account or affairs as it would a data protection issue.

Lets be clear here, the only option you have is to report it to the guards
Three will give you NO information about anything because technically
you didn't buy it from them, the person who signed up for the contract did.

In relation to trying to speak to somebody who looks after the blacklist,
i think this is a waste of time. What you need to remember here is while
you have lost your money, Three have also lost their hole on this sour
transaction as the phone, which they highly subsidised is technically
'lost/stolen' and the contract probably won't be maintained in the future
either. They're not going to take it off the blacklist for you as a gesture
of good will, no matter what you tell them, FACT!

brophs

A few misconceptions here.

Firstly the phone no more belongs to Three than it does any of us. If we assume someone took out a contract with Three in which the cost of the phone was subsidised then one of two things has happened. They've continued to pay the bill every month in which case this has nothing to do with Three or they have not paid their bill in which case Three are likely to go down the legal route to recover the remaining monies owed under the contract. The only way in which the phone would be the property of Three is the contract was declared breached, void or rescinded in which case the person who took out the contract in the first place would be under a duty to return the phone. Three (or other networks) might try to tell you otherwise but they don't have a leg to stand on.

Then there's the issue of the guy who sold it to him. If he's the same person that took out the contract, and also the same person who reported it stolen, then not only is he one of the stupidest people ever to draw breath, he's also now committed fraud. The purpose of him doing that must be to defraud his insurance company as Three have nothing to do with the sale of the phone at this point. Unless they have completed the formalities of recovering the phone before it was sold then they're out of luck. They'll just have to pursue him for a contractual debt.

So it comes down to whether or not the seller had the legal power to sell the phone. If the insurance company has already paid out then he did not and the OP has paid €600 to someone for a phone which he didn't have the legal authority to sell (the old Golden Gate bridge scam). If they haven't settled the claim with the person who reported it stolen then it's not their property and the seller had the legal power to sell to the OP.

All of that being said, the end result is much of a muchness. I'd be amazed if the phone was ever to be removed from the blacklist. The only way that might happen is if the seller (or whomever took out the contract and made the complaint) contacts them to withdraw the report. They are only likely to do that if they're under threat of criminal charges. Equally the OP could bring the seller to the small claims court and seek the return either on the basis that he did not have the legal authority to sell the phone or that he did but subsequently interfered (by making the report that it had been stolen) with the use of the phone at a point when he no longer owned it.

I wish the OP well with his attempts to get the phone removed from the blacklist, but I don't hold out a massive amount of hope.

gerryk

OP, assuming the device has been reported stolen for the purposes of insurance fraud, there is no way that the guy will "un-report" the device as stolen, since that involved going back on his claim, which would raise all sorts of red flags. Also, if you do push it with the guards/insurance company, they will probably prosecute the bloke and he'll be heavily fined or do time. In either case, you're still out €600.

The only way I can see you getting sorted, and I'm not advising you do this, is to confirm that it was him that was the registered owner... we all know what information is used to authenticate someoone over the phone. Once you have done that, you know it was him that reported it stolen, so (again, do not do this) call him up and tell him that your next call will be to the cops, and is €600 really worth doing 5 years in the 'joy? You should have your money back within a day or so... except you won't because you shouldn't do this.

dodzy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Selling the phone on ebay could backfire and Vodafone& 3 block their phones Europe wide.

nope, I'm afraid they don't

princemuzzy

your only and best option is the Guards ring him tell money back or Guards that simple if he refuses report it to the guards bring him to small claims court

all you will get from 3 and the insurance company is to be told you are not the account holder and they wont discuss the account or give out any information

120_Minutes

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

Personally from experience, this move is not possible. I remember ringing three at one
stage and was pretty much laughed off the phone. I was told that the person who buys
the phone has all the power and if they choose to blacklist it they can do it anytime
during the duration of their contract. You may be able to tell the network that the
iPhone is now being used by you but it will DEFINITELY NOT stop the original owner
from blacklisting it as it was sold to them and until the (clearly backwards) system
changes you have to be very careful who you buy from.

Maybe not with three, but i've successfully done it in the past on other networks, and was never "laughed off the phone" Do you think if someone legitimately claims on insurance and gets a phone replaced that they cant ring up and get the new imei associated with their account?

I only recently did it for my wife, who had her iphone replaced under insurance and once the contract was up, requested to unlock it so she could sell it. kinda hard to do that if only the original imei is allowed on the account isnt it?

120_Minutes

g1tm wrote: »

And you have to wait min 30 days on phone insurance policies before your covered.....

Not on every policy. Carphone warehouse (who i'm insured with) cover you immediately.

JohnSmith17

at least you have a thick IPOD..

dodzy

JohnSmith17 wrote: »

at least you have a thick, albeit an extremely expensive, IPOD..

FYP

Heart Break Kid

where did he buy it from? where is the receipt from, you could report him for insurance fraud, from the sound of it its what looks like what happened. id depend a refund from him or getting him to unbar it or report him for messing you around.

He screwed you so i think you should get him back, his insurance company would be delighted to know what happened.

Soarer

...and when he made an exaggerated insurance claim, he put his hand ("excuse me") into your pocket ("Hey!") and took your money ("Thanks!").

Dublinstiofán

120_Minutes wrote: »

Maybe not with three, but i've successfully done it in the past on other networks, and was never "laughed off the phone" Do you think if someone legitimately claims on insurance and gets a phone replaced that they cant ring up and get the new imei associated with their account?

I only recently did it for my wife, who had her iphone replaced under insurance and once the contract was up, requested to unlock it so she could sell it. kinda hard to do that if only the original imei is allowed on the account isnt it?

I do wonder if this would actually matter if the original owner rang to block the
device. They may put a note on your account saying its yours but i doubt it
would stop the original owner blacklisting it. Would love clarification on this
from whatever network you dealt with.

120_Minutes

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I do wonder if this would actually matter if the original owner rang to block the
device. They may put a note on your account saying its yours but i doubt it
would stop the original owner blacklisting it. Would love clarification on this
from whatever network you dealt with.

Well, let me tell you a story. A guy i used to work with (i must stress, this is not me, i dont condone what he did) found an iphone in pub. after trying a few sims, found out it was o2. he switched to o2 and got the imei added to his account. no problems.

I have also done this legitimately.

so it can and does happen.

brophs

120_Minutes wrote: »

Well, let me tell you a story. A guy i used to work with (i must stress, this is not me, i dont condone what he did) found an iphone in pub. after trying a few sims, found out it was o2. he switched to o2 and got the imei added to his account. no problems.

I have also done this legitimately.

so it can and does happen.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but doesn't that suggest that the owner didn't report it as being stolen and/or seek to have it blacklisted?