Black People Feel Most Discriminated against

Nodin

mikemac1 wrote: »

How did the Irish speakers manage to turn black man into fear gorm? :pac:

They used paint, I'd imagine.

Dr Turk Turkelton

gold_toe wrote: »

i do think the term coloured is problematic , it does imply that white is the norm and coloured is irregular , i say that as someone who sees political correctness as a form of liberal fascism , peter hitchens put will self in his box on this very topic last night on question time

Is white not a colour?

old hippy

coolbeans wrote: »

Some people like to be offended on behalf of others.

For sure. I get offended when people slag me and the wife off. Or her for being Asian.

Going back a bit further, my ex - who is black. That was nasty. But some people said we was just being "sensitive" and "pc". **** them.

It's sad - I've told my American mixed race cousin to mind herself, if she ever comes over to Ireland... but most of all, slap any **** who goes on about the "pc brigade". Ireland has many fascists but - outweighed by normal people who see beyond colour.

old hippy

gold_toe wrote: »

most black people can be trusted , most travellers cannot be trusted

Most people called "gold toe" cannot be trusted

old hippy

old hippy wrote: »

Ireland has many fascists

I await their politicising and seeking office. I expect I'll be waiting a while.

end of the road

Forest Demon wrote: »

The mayor said that black people were being abusive to him when complaining.

and?

Forest Demon wrote: »

He only said that he would not deal with Naggers any more and it was taken out of context

really? so what context should it have been taken in?
he's a public representitive, if a particular individual is abusive to him then fine don't deal with them, what he did on the other hand was say he wouldn't deal with a whole race of people, frankly his intentions for not doing so are irrelevant, so whether he was refusing to deal with them because he was racist or not doesn't matter, he's a public representitive and dealing with people is his job, it was right he resigned, if he doesn't wish to deal with particular types of people then its very simple, he shouldn't have became a public representitive end of.

_Kaiser_

FFS, some of the posts in this thread are exactly why we have "race issues" (albeit relatively minor in the larger/other countries scale of things)

I blame several things for this..

- American TV and it's "ambulance chasing" compo-culture ethos that spread across the globe with the advent of satellite TV

- The need for everyone to seek "validation" on every opinion or decision they make in case they get "sued" or whatever. Take rearing kids as an example.. look at a show like Supernanny and the touchy-feely bull**** that's encouraged while the 4 year old screams the place down and tells their parent to f&ck off!
Wouldn't have happened when I was growing up in the 80s.. you'd have been killed (in the spirit of the thread - no not literally :rolleyes:) if you'd tried that

- The "persecution complex" and refusal to move on that certain sections of society have (I'm not just talking about cries of racism.. take the whole 800 years crap that still goes on daily right here at home).
Most of the rest of the world has grown up to get past, well.. the past, but there is still a very vocal minority that persist in pulling the "discrimination" card at every opportunity.. and because of the 2 points above, they'll usually get what they want.

- So back home here of course we're so terrified of being accused of racism, that we can be exploited repeatedly by certain elements which in turn fuels resentment, which allows still more exploitation etc

- End result, we sit here arguing about whether "black"/"coloured"/"oriental" etc is currently OK to say :rolleyes: rather than focusing on the real question.. what is the context and intent of the circumstance in which such terms are used...

eg: "yes Garda, he was 5'11, black, medium build, well dressed"

is COMPLETELY different to...

"that black <insert expletive of choice here> did x,y,z"


Bottom line.. there's nothing wrong with highlighting a situation where someone pulled the race card, or exploited someone/the system or whatever - god/<insert deity of choice here> knows the Irish themselves are dab hands at it.. it doesn't make you automatically Racist for objecting to it.

Nodin

old hippy wrote: »

For sure. I get offended when people slag me and the wife off. Or her for being Asian.

Going back a bit further, my ex - who is black. That was nasty. But some people said we was just being "sensitive" and "pc". **** them.

It's sad - I've told my American mixed race cousin to mind herself, if she ever comes over to Ireland... but most of all, slap any **** who goes on about the "pc brigade". Ireland has many fascists but - outweighed by normal people who see beyond colour.

...I have often wondered if young Indian/Bengali/Pakistani Doctors, after their 1st shift in A&E, still turn to their colleagues to find out who or what a "Shan Mohangi" is.....

end of the road

pontia wrote: »

he was dealing with these people

as a public representitive at the time that was his job

pontia wrote: »

and had numerous problems with them

which is unfortunate, but refusing to deal with all black africans or for example all english, is just not good enough.

pontia wrote: »

and spoke out,

ah, how fantastic, he spoke out, maybe he should have just resigned before "speaking out"

pontia wrote: »

would it have been such a big issue if they werent black ?

as far as i'm concerned it would. as a public representitive you cannot refuse to deal with a particular type of people, if its an individual or a few individuals you have had problems with fair enough.

Duggys Housemate

Piliger wrote: »

I agree with your statement about language control. Oriental is a perfectly normal inoffensive word - as is coloured. Only the pathetically obsessed get into a twist over words. It's actions that matter.

Well coloured is odd, as is calling India a "sub-continent". It is no more a sub continent than Europe. Oriental has just gone out of favour, there's nothing intrinsically superior about it. Americans use the term Asian to mean Chinese, the British to mean from India, and so on. Words have different cultural signifiers.

Now the term Caucasian - hate that.

Duggys Housemate

mikemac1 wrote: »

How did the Irish speakers manage to turn black man into fear gorm? :pac:

Because - and I thought the dogs in the street knew this - fear dubh is the devil.

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

I love how white people get offended by the words oriental and coloured - has anybody asked the race in question op do white people know best?

I know many, many Asians (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, several of them Irish-born) who would indeed be very offended if someone referred to them as 'oriental'.

I love how white people think they can dictate what it is or isn't OK to call other races based on their own logic and based on being brought up as a white person in a majority white country.

markas

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Racism is disgusting. Just because you're here in your own country and you see foreigners coming in doesn't mean you can look down on them. If you were in another country you wouldn't like to be treated like that.

Most racists are hypocrites. They'd say something about foreigners in general without actually knowing the people but then they have friends who are foreigners and they get on with them because they actually got to know them.

Childs play really.

I think I am a racist. I have been in few countries in Europe, I also know few people from other parts of the globe, I can confirm that racism do exist everywhere. However there are diferences - here we pretend that we are not racist at all (if we happen to be locals), we acuse all others of being racist (if we come from a very racist country like Nigeria) or just accept it without questioning (if we are from Asia, Eastern Europe inclusive, where this is a normal thing)

To be honest I do not know any Irish, so it is difficult to say - that's why this thread is interesting to me. But from a traveller/tourist perspective, local Irish people can be both friendly and can be immediately rude once they hear my poor English. In the UK it is far worse - it just happens on daily basis when I am there. In Europe I did not encounter major incidents - except once, from obviously non european origin youth group.

To me the problem is when somebody think that they are not rasist, while they really are. And in taht category I would place Irish people in general, after reading this thread. I think it is cowardish rasim, worse of all. African Black balant rasim is just result of ignorance, Asian - of tradition I would say.

So please, let's be nice to each other and honest about racism :cool:
Happy new year to all (except the Chinese of course)

addendum;

Racism is such a big word. In case of Ireland, and in many other cases, we should rather talk about tribalism. And xenophobia - attempts to pretend themselves from strangers. Saying - go to your country if you do not like here, is exaclty this.

0066ad

Valentina Bitter Nitpicker wrote: »

I know many, many Asians (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, several of them Irish-born) who would indeed be very offended if someone referred to them as 'oriental'.

I love how white people think they can dictate what it is or isn't OK to call other races based on their own logic and based on being brought up as a white person in a majority white country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

Galwayguy35

JupiterKid wrote: »

Racism exists in Ireland for sure, but as other posters opined, there are other countries in Europe where racism is much more virulent and widespread - places such as Russia (racist skinhead racism is growing there), Italy, Spain and indeed Greece, where a neo-Nazi party are growing in influence.

If anything, I would suggest that Travellers are more discriminated against in Ireland than black people. All discrimination is wrong, but unfortunately no society/country exists anywhere on this planet where there is no discrimination on the grounds of ethnicity, religion or race.

Education is the key.

Councils bend over backwards to accomodate travellers and help them in every way and you think they are hard done by?

TEMPLAR KNIGHT

Here's a little story about the so called
"discrimination of black Africans". A black woman was barred from my local super market for attempting to rob groceries blatantly then kicking up a fuss and trying to assault the workers. 3 days later she came back with Doras luimni representatives an organisation in limerick that helps non nationals she was complaining of racism and shouting at the top of her lungs how they were being racist towards her, Dora's luimni started asking questions of the manager the manager said "hold on and ill get the man who barred her" the manager returns with a black African Security guard, when he explained the story they weren't long shutting up and turning away. That is a 100% true story discrimiation and racism me arse, they just don't like when things dont go their way and cry racism and discrimination!

Duggys Housemate

Valentina Bitter Nitpicker wrote: »

I know many, many Asians (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, several of them Irish-born) who would indeed be very offended if someone referred to them as 'oriental'.

I love how white people think they can dictate what it is or isn't OK to call other races based on their own logic and based on being brought up as a white person in a majority white country.

I love the way the Japanese use whatever Japanese terms they use for Europeans based on their own logic, language, and being brought up in a majority Japanese country.

MaxSteele

Valentina Bitter Nitpicker wrote: »

I know many, many Asians (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, several of them Irish-born) who would indeed be very offended if someone referred to them as 'oriental'.

I love how white people think they can dictate what it is or isn't OK to call other races based on their own logic and based on being brought up as a white person in a majority white country.

It's reference to their biological roots from central asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan etc) to Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Phillipines I think you get the picture.

"Gook" and "chink" are derogatory. Oriental is the same as "Caucasian" or "Mestizo", "Polynesian" etc.

People seem to actually go out of their way to be offended without considering the context. Personally they can go fcuk themselves.

markas

MaxSteele wrote: »

It's reference to their biological roots from central asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan etc) to Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Phillipines I think you get the picture.

"Gook" and "chink" are derogatory. Oriental is the same as "Caucasian" or "Mestizo", "Polynesian" etc.

People seem to actually go out of their way to be offended without considering the context. Personally they can go fcuk themselves.

Exaclty, You are right in the last paragraph. But this exactly is the problem, we tend to offend others without wrong intentions, and they feel discriminated, surprise. This is ignorance on both sides. You probably have no idea that grouping such a mix of people nationalities cultures as one can be very offensive. They often hate each other, mind you.

Edit- it can be much more than saying that Irish are basically worse British, becase they really are very different.

smileyj1987

To me it simply breaks down into

1) Some people are very racist and will not change their views

2) You say something that is wrongly worded and it can be viewed as racist even though you didn't mean

3) Some people will pull the Racism card if they don't get what they want .

grenache

I wish to challenge the findings of this research, and instead put forward the view that Limericians (i.e. citizens of Limerick City & County) are the blacks of Ireland, because everywhere we go, we get dogs abuse.

Would be funny if it wasn't so true.

Galwayguy35

grenache wrote: »

I wish to challenge the findings of this research, and instead put forward the view that Limericians (i.e. citizens of Limerick City & County) are the blacks of Ireland, because everywhere we go, we get dogs abuse.

Would be funny if it wasn't so true.

Worked with a fella from Southill once, don't recall him ever getting abuse.

TEMPLAR KNIGHT

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Worked with a fella from Southill once, don't recall him ever getting abuse.

That's because you don't mess with anybody from south hill

grenache

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Worked with a fella from Southill once, don't recall him ever getting abuse.

I find giving the offender a "mean stare" of 5 seconds or more helps to change their perception of my home county

vicM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Well coloured is odd, as is calling India a "sub-continent". It is no more a sub continent than Europe. Oriental has just gone out of favour, there's nothing intrinsically superior about it. Americans use the term Asian to mean Chinese, the British to mean from India, and so on. Words have different cultural signifiers.

Now the term Caucasian - hate that.

I thought it was called indian sub-continent to encompass India, pakistan, bangladesh, Sri-lanka and Nepal as the people were all of Indian origin. Different from the rest of Asia in appearance???

markas

smileyj1987 wrote: »

To me it simply breaks down into

1) Some people are very racist and will not change their views

2) You say something that is wrongly worded and it can be viewed as racist even though you didn't mean

3) Some people will pull the Racism card if they don't get what they want .

This is too much of a simplification.
I belong to group one, but not permamently, so I really don't.
I definately belong to group two, and think majority of people do.
That third group exists, but their motivations are not always so 'mean'

Why European/American Blacks are different than Nigerians when it comes to rasism? They can feel it.
It's a matter of culture - and not that they are racist (althogh they are), but they will always interpret your behavior as not friendly enough, they will feel it 'racist' due to lack of uderstanding that Irish (Europeans) are just like that, without wrong intentions. They do not feel the need to call all others bros, especially those who they see firt time in life. Simply speaking it is Nigerians' projection of racism on all white people. Of course this is generealisation, cases of true racism can exist.
Another case of justified feeling of racism is when people simply do not like the Nigerian way of living, similarily like they to not like and aprove lifestyle of their own people - Irish Travellers. To help this, you can only change yourself or accept it. But it is so much easier to call all racists.

(For simplicity reasons, I refer to all Black Africans as Nigerians)

markas

vicM wrote: »

I thought it was called indian sub-continent to encompass India, pakistan, bangladesh, Sri-lanka and Nepal as the people were all of Indian origin. Different from the rest of Asia in appearance???

The name 'subcontinent' have nothing to do with ethicity - its just part of a continent.
When it comese to origin, Europeans are all in part of Indian origin.

vicM

markas wrote: »

The name 'subcontinent' have nothing to do with ethicity - its just part of a continent.
When it comese to origin, Europeans are all in part of Indian origin.

Of course it is..thats why the continent of Africa has Africans, Europe Europeans etc.. there was no other reason to differentiate it from Asia as it is the same land mass

DEFTLEFTHAND

In many western cultures the racist terms have become friendly banter, I spoke on here recently about my New York and New Jersey experience where Irish and Italians trade joshing insults such as micks and greasers, oriental people are often referred to as slopes. Nobody takes offence, they're 3 or 4 generations deep at this stage.

markas

vicM wrote: »

Of course it is..thats why the continent of Africa has Africans, Europe Europeans etc.. there was no other reason to differentiate it from Asia as it is the same land mass

Sorry, it's the other way round. People just happen to live there

In case of Indian subcontinent, it is a seperate tectonic plate, as I remember from geography lessons..