Another mass shooting in the U.S

gandalf

Blay wrote: »

Here's some guys supporting arming teachers. I watch their shooting videos etc but I don't subscribe to their beliefs on this needless to say.

LOL I managed to watch 2 mins of that. Right up to the point where he says "Well children shouldn't be armed, I guess....".

I think these "geniuses" are missing the point that a teacher was armed and her son used those legally held arms to massacre children and teachers!

gandalf

Yep wonderfullife that is the point I was making with that stat. Obviously the tests are not sufficient.

Killer Wench

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh. A bunch of dead 5 year olds is much better.

This was a small city in between Boston and New York City. I would imagine the income of the residents to be higher than the average income of the families whose children attend schools with metal detectors. My dad is a principle in such a school system, and although we are talking about the tragic death of nearly an entire class of children, there are many children in urban settings who deal with violence on a daily basis. And no, not all of that violence is gun related.

opti0nal

EdenHazard wrote: »

I don't know what they can do to prevent events like this. One would be greater awareness of the correlation between a guy with history of being strange and with obvious problems starts to show an interest in weapons! *Using Columbine as an example*

How about anyone whith an excessive interest in 1st-person shoot-em-ups? The data is probably available from the multi-player networks

EdenHazard

I don't know if its practical? Especially in the case of an event like this because its not like the dude was in high school under the supervision of teachers. He was an adult.
I don't know the full story of this case so maybe this guy wasn't your typical school shooter(but he appears to be) In Columbine the dad of harris knew straight away it was his soon when he first heard of the shooting.

BobbyPropane

The guns were apparently all legally owned by his mother.

Witcher

opti0nal wrote: »

How about anyone whith an excessive interest in 1st-person shoot-em-ups? The data is probably available from the multi-player networks

Just because people like to play COD etc. doesn't mean they're going to slaughter kids in a school. Don't turn this into a 'video games breed violence' thread..it's a fruitless debate.

mikom

opti0nal wrote: »

How about anyone whith an excessive interest in 1st-person shoot-em-ups? The data is probably available from the multi-player networks

Face-palm achievement unlocked.

EdenHazard

Blay wrote: »

Just because people like to play COD etc. doesn't mean they're going to sluaghter kids in a school. Don't turn this into a 'video games breed violence' thread..it's a fruitless debate.

Yeaaah but on an individual case it may be a sign of how these losers are thinking. They use these games as a 'simulator' for what they'll carry out :rolleyes:

Its a very hard thing to stop. These people are a different kind of evil. They could have had no previous trouble and even come across as nice. Its not like society will be allowed penalise teenagers who are outcasts in the rare event they will carry out a shooting like this.

gandalf

Blay wrote: »

Just because people like to play COD etc. doesn't mean they're going to sluaghter kids in a school. Don't turn this into a 'video games breed violence' thread..it's a fruitless debate.

Yep agree with you on that. If they start using that as a filter to find the crazies my door will one of many kicked in!!

The problem with society both here and in the US is that when something terrible happens they search out something to blame. Its normally video games, or "evil" music but they ignore the fact that easy access to firearms is a driver with these situations coupled with an antiquated attitude to mental illness.

I think the graphic in this blog post by Richard Branson says an awful lot tbh.

Witcher

EdenHazard wrote: »

Yeaaah but on an individual case it may be a sign of how these losers are thinking. They use these games as a 'simulator' for what they'll carry out :rolleyes:

There's no easy answers to why these things happen, after Aurora Sky News had a lot of experts on talking about these shootings and they said there's no single indicator that they will commit massacres like this. Blaming video games is the easy answer, shootings like this were happening back when pong was the only game out there.

EdenHazard

http://news.sky.com/story/1025790/newtown-shooting-gunman-was-honours-student

Its a cliché at this stage

Killer Wench

Tony EH wrote: »

America, in general, doesn't care for it's ill. It just ignores the problem, like it chooses to ignore the problems stemming from it's appalling gun laws.

It's coming to a point over there where only the rich will be afforded health care and middle income people will be left to rot. Lower income people are already out of the loop.

The cost of care is prohibitive for many people and by and large they are left to their own devices. Many end up on the streets. It's shocking, for instance, the amount of bat-shit crazy people are on the street corners of San Francisco alone. These people can't afford regular visits to a shrink, or a stay in a proper facility. So, they cope as best they can, until finally they crack...and in some cases carry out these type of massacres, which is to a large extent glorified by the media, who loves this type of story. It's guaranteed coverage for at least a week. The other glorification is the national wankfest of the gun.

Put it all together and the recipe for disaster is as plain as day.

America, however, will continue to bury it's head in the sand over both issues.

Can we please stop lumping all of America into one monolithic cesspool of apathy and incompetence? The US is the third most populous nation (330 million people) and with the third/fourth largest territory in the world. There are 50 states that each operate under their own state constitution and state laws; there are 500 tribal governments that operate under their own tribal constitutions and laws. I work within a court system and we operate specific mental health programs to address the numerous individuals who go through our system and suffer from mental illness. There are programs, services, and professionals out there helping individuals with mental health issues, but the problem is that society groups people with mental illness into one class and do not distinguish between the severity of issues and the reality that many mentally ill people self-medicate with illicit drugs.

EdenHazard

Question why are the people who commit these acts never just normal everyday kids with healthy interests in sports and the likes?

School shooters all seem to fit into the same bracket.

Witcher

EdenHazard wrote: »

Question why are the people who commit these acts never just normal everyday kids with healthy interests in sports and the likes?

School shooters all seem to fit into the same bracket.

Because there has to be something fundamentally wrong with you to shoot kids in a school, it's not just something you decide to do one morning. Not everyone with a mental illness and access to firearms will carry out a shooting like this, it's not just the illness there's a trigger somewhere deeper to exact revenge on society for some perceived slight. People that do these things are withdrawn with a chip on their shoulder, some like James Holmes crave the attention that other mass shooters get from the media and want to bask in it..that's why he didnt just kill himself. As I said a few pages back..according to a psychologist on SN these events happen in clusters..within 30 days of a major one supposedly.. unfortunately the next shooter is probably watching the news coverage now and sees it as the answer to their problems.


This is all from what I've read and heard about people like this, I don't pretend to be an expert on this.

Killer Wench

Let's not forget that this was a domestic violence crime, also. When I have read about cases involving matricide, the child usually has been the victim of sexual, physical, or extreme emotional abuse for years, and then one day, they kill the abuser. I do not know about the relationship between the mother and son, and it is unlikely that the surviving son will talk openly about their relationship anytime soon, but there have been reports that the mother was a stern individual. However, the media has been wrong on so many "facts" throughout this tragedy so I can't take those reports too seriously. This morning, they are now saying that the mother was not a teacher at the school. Yesterday, it was that she was a teacher and her class was killed.

books4sale

Blay wrote: »

There's no easy answers to why these things happen,.

Are you living in Noddy land or what? Did you read any of this thread?

Its plain as the nose on my face what the problem is, GUNS!

Who's to blame for that? The people and their elected government.

I'm laughing at some of the ridiculous causes people are coming up with here, 20 5-10 year old children are dead, yeah small little innocent kids, the effing sickness of it all. Its like something from a war in Africa or something.

Witcher

books4sale wrote: »

Are you living in Noddy land or what? Did you read any of this thread?

Its plain as the nose on my face what the problem is, GUNS!

Who's to blame for that? The people and their elected government.

20 5-10 year old children dead, the effing sickness of it all. Its like something from a war in Africa or something.

Yeah 'teh gunz':rolleyes:

Tell me...when did a Swiss person last shoot up a school or a Czech? There is a societal issue outside of firearms that cause events like this, just having a gun doesnt make you a mass shooter. There's something that triggers it, just blaming 'guns' doesn't solve the issue. There are stringent laws on firearms in Norway, Anders Breivik didn't care..he had his plan and was going to go through with it no matter what. Finding out what motivates people like this is the key not just ranting about 'guns'. Everyone and their dog should not have access to firearms but you're fooling yourself that removing firearms will somehow make these people into functioning members of society with a good job a wife and 2.1 kids..the desire for violence will manifest itself somehow...like Timothy McVeigh..he didn't use a gun.

Killer Wench

The simple answer isn't guns! There are truly millions of responsible gun owners who have never used their gun on another human life and have been properly trained to use them. Stop making gun-ownership into the scapegoat! It is much more complex than that.

Let's talk more deeply about mental health treatment and the stigma society places on individuals with mental illness.


Let's talk about how people no longer are equipped with the proper tools to address conflict or trauma, and that some of these individuals perceive violence and self-inflicted harm as the only way to address them.

Let's talk about domestic violence because in spite of 26 individuals unrelated to the killer, the mother of the killer was also a victim, and there must have been some issue within the home that caused him to go out into the community and target individuals who were less empowered than himself.

books4sale

Killer Wench wrote: »

The simple answer isn't guns! There are truly millions of responsible gun owners who have never used their gun on another human life and have been properly trained to use them. Stop making gun-ownership into the scapegoat! It is much more complex than that.
.

The simple answer is guns.

The fact is that there are millions of responsible gun owners but it only takes one of them to snap and all hell breaks loose.

Interesting user name in your defence of gun ownership!

santana75

I agree, the issue is not as simple as gun control. There seems to be something indigenous to american society thats breeding these types of personalities. American high school is very higherarchical, and I wonder if this is where it starts. A quiet kid, not very socially adept is rejected by the the various groups, or is even bullied. He becomes withdrawn and develops a hatred of people and society and eventually lashes out.
I think its easy to call people monsters and to believe that they're just evil. Its more complex to examine why somebody turned out the way the did, try to understand what went wrong and then come up with a plan to prevent that from happening again.

Witcher

books4sale wrote: »

The simple answer is guns.

The fact is that there are millions of responsible gun owners but it only takes one of them to snap and all hell breaks loose.

Interesting user name in your defence of gun ownership!

The people who carry out these shootings can hardly be considered 'gun owners'..they buy them with the specific intent to use them for murder or in this case steal them from relatives etc. These shootings aren't carried out by people who have held firearms all their lives and flip out someday, shooters like this have an issue with society and want to get revenge..they see firearms as the method to exact that revenge. Guns don't turn ordinary 20 something year olds into murderers, guys like this already have that desire in them. If it wasn't a gun it would be a bomb or they would pick up people off the street and kill them like the 60/70/80's, it's only recently that school shootings have become the main focus for these people and not serial killings.

spiritcrusher

Just in relation to the Charlie Brooker's Newswipe video posted earlier, I hadn't actually seen that video and the interview with forensic psychiatrist before but when he explains that how the media reports these stories tends to lead to more of these shootings within a week of the original, a friend of mine who works in an ER in Alabama had just posted up on faceboook that a gunman had walked into the hospital and shot a policeman and two nurses.
Assuming that it's not some crazy coincidence, it's pretty horrendous that those who study these crimes seem to have a handle on at least one possible cause but yet nothing has been done to try and reduce the "anti-hero"-like aspect of the shooters.

Here's a link to the Alabama shooting for anyone interested http://www.abc3340.com/story/20351971/gunman-in-st-vincents-hospital-dead-officer-shot

mikom

Any chance of getting a mental health levy added to all guns purchased in the USA?
Funding could go to high schools etc to provide education, analysis and counselling for those in a dark place.
Keep your guns and maybe help prevent something similar happening again

Flier

spiritcrusher wrote: »

Just in relation to the Charlie Brooker's Newswipe video posted earlier, I hadn't actually seen that video and the interview with forensic psychiatrist before but when he explains that how the media reports these stories tends to lead to more of these shootings within a week of the original, a friend of mine who works in an ER in Alabama had just posted up on faceboook that a gunman had walked into the hospital and shot a policeman and two nurses.
Assuming that it's not some crazy coincidence, it's pretty horrendous that those who study these crimes seem to have a handle on at least one possible cause but yet nothing has been done to try and reduce the "anti-hero"-like aspect of the shooters.

Here's a link to the Alabama shooting for anyone interested http://www.abc3340.com/story/20351971/gunman-in-st-vincents-hospital-dead-officer-shot

And there was a shooting in a mall in Portland, Oregan last Tuesday. Two killed, one injured, plus the shooter killed imself. So thats three in the last week.

folamh

Was it the girlfriend of Adam or Ryan who went missing? And has she been found?

.jacksparrow.

Stop selling bullets,its the only way to get a grip on the whole situation.

Witcher

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Stop selling bullets,its the only way to get a grip on the whole situation.

A lot of people in the US load their own ammunition and have stockpiled the supplies needed so that's not the be-all end-all solution..shooters like this will just get it off these people or get it on the black market.

.jacksparrow.

Blay wrote: »

A lot of people in the US load their own ammunition and have stockpiled the supplies needed so that's not the be-all end-all solution..shooters like this will just get it off these people or get it on the black market.

True but surely in the long run it will make guns redundant,can't think of any other solution.

MadsL

gandalf wrote: »

Errr this happened because one teacher legally had two semi-auto pistols and a semi-auto high capacity rifle. Because of this her supposedly mentally unstable son had access to these weapons.

And nobody has yet commented on how the fuck her 20 year old got access to them. My 15 year old has shot guns at the range but there is no way in hell she would get the combination to the safe.

Father Damo wrote: »

Military grade weapons should not be allowed by anyone bar swat teams and the army itself, end of. With all due respect his idiot mother bares as much responsibility keeping military weapons in the same house as a mentally ill boy, as he himself does over these deaths.

'Military' grade? You do realise that starts with a shotgun.

Father Damo wrote: »

I think nobody in the US needs the right to have anything more than a double barreled hunting shotgun in their house.

I think you will find a double-barrel a bit posh for most. Unless going shooting on his Lordships land up at Downton.

Tony EH wrote: »

They just don't care about 5 year olds getting blown away.
That's really what it comes down to.

So peaceful law abiding citizens are at fault for events like this (as they don't care) - how about you give up drink and lobby to ban alcohol to show you care about drunk driving deaths? Or do you just not care?