Another mass shooting in the U.S

Killer Wench

It seems to be a father of a student.

Re: guns

I don't own a guy and no plans to own one but I will say that there are millions of Americans who do and there are millions of responsible owners. These shootings are tragic and unnecessary but this behavior is not indicative of an entire population.

If someone goes into a kindergarten class to kill as many as possible it won't make a huge difference if they're armed with a gun, a knife or a baseball bat. Well, if the teacher had a gun it might.
There's quite regular school attacks in China, usually not involving guns but I doubt those affected care about the weapon of choice. It's the mentality of the people who carry out such attacks that's the problem, not the laws.

Such a ****in tragic case, when I heard the number I was hoping it'd be followed by "injured" rather than dead.

Stinicker

What are the odds bullying is ultimately responsible for this? In Ireland children commit suicide but in the United States they go and commit homicide.

Tightening up Gun Laws will not stop those type of things, Guns are a part of US Culture and trying to get the Gun out of the American Psyche is like trying to tell Irish people give up the drink. It will never happen.

Stinicker

Stinicker wrote: »

What are the odds bullying is ultimately responsible for this? In Ireland children commit suicide but in the United States they go and commit homicide.

Tightening up Gun Laws will not stop those type of things, Guns are a part of US Culture and trying to get the Gun out of the American Psyche is like trying to tell Irish people give up the drink. It will never happen.

Don't go changing your mind when you read the already available info.

Chavways

I can see this being the last straw for the anti-gun camp. There'll be a long, messy battle to get much more stringent guns laws introduced that will probably be resisted by half the population.

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

it won't make a huge difference if they're armed with a gun, a knife or a baseball bat.

I'd sooner take my chances with someone armed with a bat tbh. I don't know how anyone can say that it makes no difference what they are armed with. Of course it does make a difference =/

Witcher

Firearms laws will never change in the US, naive to think they will.

Thargor

Chavways wrote: »

I can see this being the last straw for the anti-gun camp. There'll be a long, messy battle to get much more stringent guns laws introduced that will probably be resisted by half the population.

If all the others didnt change anything neither will this, I bet I could even go back in 2013 and quote this post in the thread for the next massacre.

statesaver

WalterX wrote: »

I moved to the US for work about a year ago, and from what I've seen, this type of thing isn't going to stop anytime soon. Even Obama hasn't made any serious move to try to curb gun ownership.

Maybe since this is Obama's last 4 years and does not need votes he might make one final attempt to take on the gun lobby in the US.

Like to think he would anyway given that there could be 14 or more children killed today

dark crystal

Lots of presents not going to be opened this Christmas.

What an awful tragedy for those poor children and their families. What sort of repugnant bastard would shoot innocent little children like that. I just can't comprehend that level of evil.

RIP little ones.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

I'd sooner take my chances with someone armed with a bat tbh. I don't know how anyone can say that it makes no difference what they are armed with. Of course it does make a difference =/

If someone went into a class full of 5 year olds with a baseball bat the only limit on the numbers they'll kill will be their fitness.

aloyisious

Even though this might sound silly or illogical, there's a push by the Gun-owners lobby to have state laws banning concealed-weapons overturned, so that those with licensed fire-arms can carry weapons under their clothing. Some of the states have laws licensing licensed fire-arms owners to carry concealed weapons.

This was mentioned after the Cinema shooting incident, claiming that if even one licensed-firearms owner member of the audience had been able to wear a concealed weapon legally, there was a chance that such a person might have in the cinema with a weapon and could have used it to shoot the shooter.

Cosmicfox

Blay wrote: »

Firearms laws will never change in the US, naive to think they will.

It's not as if they can though. The guns are already out there. I can't imagine how you'd go round taking them off everyone. It's too late for any of that.

Anyway, what's happened is very sad .

brummytom

aloyisious wrote: »

Even though this might sound silly or illogical, there's a push by the Gun-owners lobby to have state laws banning concealed-weapons overturned, so that those with licensed fire-arms can carry weapons under their clothing. Some of the states have laws licensing licensed fire-arms owners to carry concealed weapons.

This was mentioned after the Cinema shooting incident, claiming that if even one licensed-firearms owner member of the audience had been able to wear a concealed weapon legally, there was a chance that such a person might have in the cinema with a weapon and could have used it to shoot the shooter.

And shoot another 5 people in the cross-fire?

My name is URL

Cosmicfox wrote: »

It's not as if they can though. The guns are already out there. I can't imagine how you'd go round taking them off everyone. It's too late for any of that.

There were 11,000,000 new guns sold in the US in 2011. Making laws stricter today would definitely impact on how many guns are circulating in a few years time.

Conmaicne Mara

aloyisious wrote: »

Even though this might sound silly or illogical, there's a push by the Gun-owners lobby to have state laws banning concealed-weapons overturned, so that those with licensed fire-arms can carry weapons under their clothing. Some of the states have laws licensing licensed fire-arms owners to carry concealed weapons.

This was mentioned after the Cinema shooting incident, claiming that if even one licensed-firearms owner member of the audience had been able to wear a concealed weapon legally, there was a chance that such a person might have in the cinema with a weapon and could have used it to shoot the shooter.

I get what you're saying & agree with you.

But prepare yourself to be descended upon by them who think they know better :rolleyes:

Jayob10

its the rationale that ordinary folk can acquire automatic weapons that is baffling. Theres simply no need for them. I'd personally believe theres no need to have firearms at all but the right to carry weapons that can kill en mass is just staggering, as there is no justification for it. Chuck the hunter from Alabama should not be allowed buy a firearm that can fire god knows how many rounds in 30 seconds.

News like this will galvanise the likes of the NRA, in a warped way. Their blinkered view will be that, "We need guns to defend ourselves from such a madman".

Its sad, but very true. The more mad men carrying them and incidents like this, the more these pro gun folk will be determined to arm themselves to protect their families. Its a vicious circle.

Witcher

Cosmicfox wrote: »

It's not as if they can though. The guns are already out there. I can't imagine how you'd go round taking them off everyone. It's too late for any of that.

Anyway, what's happened is very sad .

That's what I mean, there's no register of firearms in the US so they can't round them up like people on these threads seem to think.

yoyo

aloyisious wrote: »

This was mentioned after the Cinema shooting incident, claiming that if even one licensed-firearms owner member of the audience had been able to wear a concealed weapon legally, there was a chance that such a person might have in the cinema with a weapon and could have used it to shoot the shooter.

Was the guy not Kevlared up to the teeth? Good luck trying to take down an armored lunatic armed with a m15 with a 9mm! Very very tragic story, when I first heard the news it was 3 injured, unbelievably sad reading the latest reports . RIP to all the victims, especially upsetting this close to Christmas. Hopefully the US will soon tighten up gun laws and ownership. Doubt it will ever happen though and all we will see is a repeat of these events

Nick

Sand

Coincidentally the BBC is reporting a school attack in China today where 22 children have been wounded by a guy with a knife. School attacks in China aren't rare - 20 children have been killed in them in recent years. Gun ownership is a coincidental factor in these cases - not a cause. Even if private gun ownership was entirely banned in the US you would still have gun crime.

BlaasForRafa

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone went into a class full of 5 year olds with a baseball bat the only limit on the numbers they'll kill will be their fitness.

A teacher would at least be able to struggle with someone with a baseball bat or defend him/herself with a chair or something. Against a gunman they have absolutely no chance at all.

After the shock of this has died down there will be no tightening against gun laws. Just this week the Illinois supreme court decided that state laws against carrying concealed firearms were unconstitutional, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired on September 13, 2004 and hasn't been renewed since.

With something like 250 million guns in circulation in the states now its probably waaaaaaaay too late for the law to catch up anyway, mass shootings like this are unfortunately seem to be part of the price that america in general is willing to pay for virtually unfettered gun ownership.

ahnowbrowncow

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone went into a class full of 5 year olds with a baseball bat the only limit on the numbers they'll kill will be their fitness.

Really? So no one would be able to stop a man armed with a baseball bat before he kills 27 people?

Yeah right, saying baseball bats are just as dangerous as guns is idiotic.

The_Kew_Tour

RIP to all those poor Children and adults.

Very sad and disturbing to hear.

mikom

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone went into a class full of 5 year olds with a baseball bat the only limit on the numbers they'll kill will be their fitness.

Try swinging a baseball bat in a hallway.

tails_naf

In most previous shootings it was clear that better gun control would have made a difference, as they usually involved assault weapons (aptly named). From what has been reported so far this guy had hand-guns.

Gun control is needed in the US - no-one needs to own an assault weapon as they are designed for killing en masse (and not hunting). In this case, I imagine the shooter would have found something else to commit the deed.

That said, I'm glad we don't have hand-guns in Ireland as they do allow easy concealment, and its common for people to own and even in some states carry them around.

I think part of the reason for these shootings is cultural. The news there is full of reports of extreme violence and home invasions and the like. People are buying more guns because of the fear of someone else with a gun. I think this affects how people think about violence and it leads to an increase in extreme acts.

Horribly sad - but even if something was done about guns, I think it would also take a cultural shift to turn this around.

Sand

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Really? So no one would be able to stop a man armed with a baseball bat before he kills 27 people?

Sure, somebody surely could (someone armed with a gun most likely) but I wouldn't place my bets on a Kindergarten teacher and 30 six years trapped in a classroom with a single entry/exit.

Witcher

tails_naf wrote: »

Gun control is needed in the US - no-one needs to own an assault weapon as they are designed for killing en masse (and not hunting). In this case, I imagine the shooter would have found something else to commit the deed.

An 'assault rifle' has select fire capability, the AR15's people buy over the counter in the US do not have select fire. They're no more dangerous than any other semi automatic rifle you can buy such as a Mini 14, M1 Carbine etc. People use them shooting deer, targets etc. People here use them for the same thing..it's not just Americans that have them

That said, I'm glad we don't have hand-guns in Ireland as they do allow easy concealment, and its common for people to own and even in some states carry them around.

We do have pistols in Ireland. These threads always expose the lack of knowledge people here have about our own laws.

.

Suryavarman

keith16 wrote: »

That being the case I would be delighted if you could provide a link or source. It would seem incredibly counter intuitive.

Here is a link to the second edition of John Lott's book More Guns, Less Crime. Also in his 3rd edition he gives a list of 16 studies that find more guns lower crime, 10 studies that find more guns have no effect on crime and no studies that find more guns increase crime (because there aren't any as opposed to him being biased).

kincsem

Unfortunately this is what Americans choose.

Mince Pie

Let them keep their guns, just make bullets really fooking expensive!