Another mass shooting in the U.S

suicide_circus

If all the children and staff in that school were carrying guns, this would never have happened.

tails_naf

Blay wrote: »

Which of these shootings in the US involved a fully automatic rifle? Name one.

Fully automatic vs semi-automatic. A semi-automatic can still deliver a hundred rounds in 2-3 minutes, so the fact that you have to pull the trigger for every shot is kind of irrelevant.
So please don't try to bog down the argument in technicalities. A gun capable of delivering that amount of fire-power is not for hunting and should not be available to the public.

Witcher

tails_naf wrote: »

And what are the valid reasons to hold them in Ireland? Can you link to it?
Do you think everyone in Ireland could get one - i.e. everyone in Ireland could claim these as valid reasons?

And yes, pistols are used in crimes in every country where they are available and this country is right the control them. I believe there is a stat in the USA that 2% of gun-deaths in the US were in self-defense. The rest were murder/robbery/other crime.

More availability of pistols would mean more crimes that involve them.

Target shooting..being a member of a range. I'm a member of a range, I could go put at deposit on one with my firearms dealer in the morning, hand in the form and probably have it inside 2 weeks same as my other firearms.

'Every other country'..but not Ireland, as I stated the issue wasnt with the danger of people having them legally here, it was fear of them being stolen.

MadsL

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Thanks for summing it up. Americans are not capable of owning weapons so they should be banned in their country.

What would I cut my steak with?

tails_naf

suicide_circus wrote: »

If all the children and staff in that school were carrying guns, this would never have happened.

True. Many more people would have been killed in the chaos and cross-fire.

c_man

kincsem wrote: »

Do not allow people to own guns. Is that ok?

Not really. There's places in the States people rely on guns.

Witcher

tails_naf wrote: »

Fully automatic vs semi-automatic. A semi-automatic can still deliver a hundred rounds in 2-3 minutes, so the fact that you have to pull the trigger for every shot is kind of irrelevant.
So please don't try to bog down the argument in technicalities. A gun capable of delivering that amount of fire-power is not for hunting and should not be available to the public.

You're the one who mentioned fully automatic firearms. Learn your terminology better and those who know better won't call you up on it.

People here use them for hunting too, you better go state your complaints to the Gardai.

BobbyPropane

MadsL wrote: »

What would I cut my steak with?

Butter Knife

Piliger

starbelgrade wrote: »

What is it with the Americans and their school gun-spree mass murders?

It's seriously fucked up.

They are obsessed with guns as a sort of national fetish. Guns and violence is glorified. There are more gun dealers in the US than petrol stations ! FFS

All because they are afraid of their government ... can you believe this sh1t ? you could not make it up. The Land of the Free .... the Greatest Country in the World .... you know ... all the garbage they keep telling the rest of us ? Yet they are so afraid of their Government that they want everyone to have guns.

Their answer to mass murders in universities and high schools ? they want teachers and lecturers to be armed. I visited two schools there in 2008 and it is like a war zone ... with armed security guards.

America is the worst country for gun violence and gun murder and mass murders in schools and malls in the world bar none.

JupiterKid

Guns, along with religion, are at the heart of all that is wrong with America.

I can't see how anyone can defend guns in the wake of this appalling and senseless act of evil.

BobbyPropane

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/279656777824497664

suicide_circus

tails_naf wrote: »

True. Many more people would have been killed in the chaos and cross-fire.

Hey. Relax , guy!

I was just trying out some NRA logic

Courtesy Flush

Somehow this seems even worse than before, the fact that it's an elementary school with such young kids

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

Mass killing happen all over the world, shootings happen less in China because ..... they have a blade tradition rather than a ballistic one.

Yep, China, where gunpowder was invented......

Witcher

JupiterKid wrote: »

Guns, along with religion, are at the heart of all that is wrong with America.

I can't see how anyone can defend guns in the wake of this appalling and senseless act of evil.

I don't think anybody is denying that firearms can be bad in the wrong hands but clamping down on them doesn't have the 100% assurance of peace that people think it will, evidence from this side of the Atlantic shows that. The issue is with the people who would use them to cause harm. Like Anders Breivik, bided his time and got the firearms legally and then slaughtered people with them..those with violence on their mind will carry it out not matter what the price is.

tails_naf

Blay wrote: »

You're the one who mentioned fully automatic firearms. Learn your terminology better and those who know better won't call you up on it.

People here use them for hunting too, you better go state your complaints to the Gardai.

And you were the one who was hung up on the fact that they were not fully-automatic, so therefore perfectly acceptable, when the reality is there is very little difference between the two in this case - as both will deliver more fire power than any normal gun-usage required.

I've been to gun ranges, and in fact like target shooting. No one needs to unload 100 rounds in 2-3 minutes. These guns should not be available in any shape or form to the public. Full, Semi or anything else.

Thrill

NBC News: Parent of CT gunman found dead at NJ home

kincsem

Telegraph.co.uk

The following is a list of the most notable mass shootings that have occurred in the United States since Columbine in 1999.

Follow live coverage of Denver shooting at Batman screening
April 1999 - two teenage schoolboys shot and killed 12 schoolmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.
July 1999 - a stock exchange trader in Atlanta, Georgia, killed 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.
September 1999 - a gunman opened fire at a prayer service in Fort Worth, Texas, killing six people before committing suicide.
October 2002 - a series of sniper-style shootings occurred in Washington DC, leaving 10 dead.
August 2003 - in Chicago, a laid-off worker shot and killed six of his former workmates.
November 2004 - in Birchwood, Wisconsin, a hunter killed six other hunters and wounded two others after an argument with them.
March 2005 - a man opened fire at a church service in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.
October 2006 - a truck driver killed five schoolgirls and seriously wounded six others in a school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania before taking his own life.
April 2007 - student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people and wounded 15 others at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, before shooting himself, making it the deadliest mass shooting in the United States after 2000.
August 2007 - Three Delaware State University students were shot and killed in “execution style” by a 28-year-old and two 15-year-old boys. A fourth student was shot and stabbed.
September 2007 - A freshman student at Delaware State University shot and wounded two other students at a campus dining hall.
December 2007 - a 20-year-old man killed nine people and injured five others in a shopping center in Omaha, Nebraska.
December 2007 - a woman and her boyfriend shot dead six members of her family on Christmas Eve in Carnation, Washington.
February 2008 - a shooter who is still at large tied up and shot six women at a suburban clothing store in Chicago, leaving five of them dead and the remaining one injured.
February 2008 - a man opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, killing five students and wounding 16 others before laying down his weapon and surrendering.
July 2008 – A former student shot three people in a computer lab at South Mountain Community College, Phoenix, Arizona.
September 2008 - a mentally ill man who was released from jail one month earlier shot eight people in Alger, Washington, leaving six of them dead and the rest two wounded.
October 2008 - Several men in a car drove up to a dormitory at the University of Central Arkansas and opened fire, killing two students and injuring a third person.
December 2008 - a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.
March 2009 - a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.
March 2009 - a heavily-armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.
March 2009 - six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.
April 2009 – An 18-year-old former student followed a pizza deliveryman into his old dormitory, and shot the deliveryman, a dorm monitor, and himself at Hampton University, Virginia.
April 2009 - a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.
July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.
November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.
February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others
January 2011 - a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tuscon, Arizona, killing six people including a nine-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head.
July 2012 - Masked gunman opens fire at midnight cinema screen of new Batman film The Dark Knight Rises, killing 12 and injuring 58. Suspect James Holmes is arrested by police, awaiting trial.
August 2012 - Gunman kills six people at SIkh temple in Wisconsin before being shot dead by police. Suspect is named as white supremacists Wade Michael Page.

statesaver

suicide_circus wrote: »

Hey. Relax , guy!

I was just trying out some NRA logic

The NRA will say tomorrow " why weren't the children armed, would never of happened if they were armed "

1ZRed

UrbanSea wrote: »

Can't believe the stupidity of a huge number of Americans defending the gun laws over there. It seems no matter how many of these mass shootings occur they'll still defend it

Worst of all they think it takes away their freedom if they're aren't permitted guns. As if guns give you freedom. This isn't the old west ffs!!

Witcher

tails_naf wrote: »

And you were the one who was hung up on the fact that they were not fully-automatic, so therefore perfectly acceptable, when the reality is there is very little difference between the two in this case - as both will deliver more fire power than any normal gun-usage required.

I've been to gun ranges, and in fact like target shooting. No one needs to unload 100 rounds in 2-3 minutes. These guns should not be available in any shape or form to the public. Full, Semi or anything else.

Those using s/a rifles here and in the US on ranges aren't firing a hundred rounds in 2/3 minutes as you state, I think you'll find there is a designated time period that has to be observed between shots and the target would be ragged after 20 shots nevermind 100. That's just your opinion and thankfully the Gardai keep an open mind and those in need of such firearms here are allowed them.

Thrill

Connecticut shooter name: Ryan Lanza, age 24.


NBC reporting the mother of shooting suspect Ryan Lanza found dead at the school, not at home


mother is teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary : many of the victims apparently her students



EDIT:

THE SHOOTERS MOTHER WAS THE TEACHER OF THE KINDERGARTEN CLASSROOM WHERE THE SHOOTING BEGAN

.

WalterX

statesaver wrote: »

Maybe since this is Obama's last 4 years and does not need votes he might make one final attempt to take on the gun lobby in the US.

Like to think he would anyway given that there could be 14 or more children killed today

I doubt it. He's said on multiple occasions that it's not a priority for him and he thinks America needs no new gun legislation.

But one can only hope...

DrumSteve

RIP... That many kids dead. Its shocking.

How could someone do that?

Piliger

suicide_circus wrote: »

Hey. Relax , guy!

I was just trying out some NRA logic

This is truly what they think .... they wanted all teachers and lecturers to be armed as a solution to previous mass murders.

After the 11/9 hijackings they said that if everyone was armed on the planes, the incidents would not have occurred.

This is their insane, twisted, mind bogglingly deranged way of thinking ...

And all because they are afraid of their Government. What a country !

LivelineDipso

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Paging RtdH to this thread stat, to start ranting about Obama, RFIDs and 'artillery'.

So you are using the slaughter of children to have a go at another poster.

You do realise that your the one looking bad and not Run to the Hills?

You see how that works?

Suryavarman

statesaver wrote: »

The NRA will say tomorrow " why weren't the children armed, would never of happened if they were armed "

If the NRA make a statement it will more than likely be along the lines of "if this school wasn't a gun free zone then a teacher with a concealed hand gun could have shot the gun man and stopped the shooting."

MadsL

JupiterKid wrote: »

Guns, along with religion, are at the heart of all that is wrong with America.

I can't see how anyone can defend guns in the wake of this appalling and senseless act of evil.

Cars, root of all traffic accidents. Ban em.

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Butter Knife

No thanks, prefer my steak rare thanks. I also shave with a straight razor, should that weapon be taken off me?

Piliger wrote: »

They are obsessed with guns as a sort of national fetish. Guns and violence is glorified. There are more gun dealers in the US than petrol stations ! FFS

Utter bunk. 112k gas stations in the US, 50k gun dealers.

All because they are afraid of their government ... can you believe this sh1t ? you could not make it up. The Land of the Free .... the Greatest Country in the World .... you know ... all the garbage they keep telling the rest of us ? Yet they are so afraid of their Government that they want everyone to have guns.

A nation like America has no need to be afraid of it's Government because of that amendment. If you cannot comprehend the 2nd amendment I suggest you read more about American History.
I would also remind you that Ireland had an armed uprising and armed rebellion against an Irish government in recent history.

Their answer to mass murders in universities and high schools ? they want teachers and lecturers to be armed. I visited two schools there in 2008 and it is like a war zone ... with armed security guards.

Notable is that many of the recent mass killings have been in "gun free" zones.

America is the worst country for gun violence and gun murder and mass murders in schools and malls in the world bar none.

As with much of what you are saying, this is simply not true.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms

kincsem wrote: »

Telegraph.co.uk

The following is a list of the most notable mass shootings that have occurred in the United States since Columbine in 1999.

Why did you only list US events when there are equally mass killings in other parts of the world?

LivelineDipso

ElChe32 wrote: »

More nutters with easy access to guns. Horrible story, my heart goes out to the families and friends of those lost.

Americans have had gun nuts for nearly 3 centuries - the mass shooting are only in recent decades. There is something else going on.

I agree gun control should be tightened, but these shootings often involve people on powerful psyche meds.

upstairs for coffee

Rip and condolences to everyone involved and affected.

Does this lay any credence to the claim that cannibis, alcohol etc should all or continue to be banned as people can't be trusted with "responsbility" (for want of a better word)?

Thrill

Connecticut shooter name: Ryan Lanza, age 24.


NBC reporting the mother of shooting suspect Ryan Lanza found dead at the school, not at home


mother is teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary : many of the victims apparently her students



.

Father found dead at home.


Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak
Connecticut Post reporter tells Sky News 29 people are dead, 20 of them children, after shooting at school in Connecticut


.

A Primal Nut

I support gun control, but it's naive to think that preventing easy access to guns would have stopped incidents like this. In many cases they prepare for quite a lot of time in advance and are quite meticulous.

Usually its because of drugs like Xanax which over time damages the frontal lobe. Many americans (including most of the mass shooters) were on these drugs from a young age.

MadsL

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Americans have had gun nuts for nearly 3 centuries - the mass shooting are only in recent decades. There is something else going on.

I agree gun control should be tightened, but these shootings often involve people on powerful psyche meds.

Deleted (NBC said shooter was 20, now reported as 24)

metaoblivia

My heart goes out to all of the children and families affected by this tragedy - those who lost their lives and those who will have to bear this trauma for the rest of their lives. No one deserves this, especially children.

Da Shins Kelly

This world is going beyond depressing.

augustus gloop

MadsL wrote: »

Cars, root of all traffic accidents. Ban em.



No thanks, prefer my steak rare thanks. I also shave with a straight razor, should that weapon be taken off me?



Utter bunk. 112k gas stations in the US, 50k gun dealers.

50k gun dealers is ok in your mind?


A nation like America has no need to be afraid of it's Government because of that amendment. If you cannot comprehend the 2nd amendment I suggest you read more about American History.
I would also remind you that Ireland had an armed uprising and armed rebellion against an Irish government in recent history.


Notable is that many of the recent mass killings have been in "gun free" zones.


As with much of what you are saying, this is simply not true.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms




Why did you only list US events when there are equally mass killings in other parts of the world?

no there isnt, not by young men with mental health issues
are you sympathetic to american gun laws??

Defiler Of The Coffin

Disgusted

Witcher

Sky News had a pyschologist on after the cinema shooting a few months ago and he said that shootings like this happen in clusters, others with psychological problems will see the news of this and crave the attention the shooter got and possibly commit one themselves. He said on average another one will happen within 30 days of a major one such as this, I believe there was one soon after the cinema shooting so his theory seems to hold water unfortunately.

jesse pinkman

Thrill wrote: »

Father found dead at home.


Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak
Connecticut Post reporter tells Sky News 29 people are dead, 20 of them children, after shooting at school in Connecticut


.

Where is this gonna all end, all these innocent little people & their family's life's ruined just before what should have been a joyous family occasion, by yet another lunatic gunman, my heart goes out to all who are left behind to pick up the pieces, god love them.

Da Shins Kelly

Blay wrote: »

Sky News had a pyschologist on after the cinema shooting a few months ago and he said that shootings like this happen in clusters, others with psychological problems will see the news of this and crave the attention the shooter got and possibly commit one themselves. He said on average another one will happen within 30 days of a major one such as this, I believe there was one soon after the cinema shooting so his theory seems to hold water.

The main issue with this type of crime in the US is how they treat the perpetrators of such crimes. These people are practically turned into celebrities. The news stations give them so much attention, you know every little thing about their lives, even what they ate for breakfast before they went and shot everyone. Meanwhile nobody can even remember the names of any of the victims. I know there's a morbid curiosity about people who would do such terrible things, but it's pretty much glorifying the shooters and probably gives other people who are of a similar unstable disposition validation in their own messed up minds to go and carry out something similar.

The best thing would be to just ignore the shooters. Talk about the victims and their families, and just gloss over the perpetrators and stop giving them the attention they clearly desperately crave. That will never happen though.

MadsL

augustus gloop wrote: »

no there isnt, not by young men with mental health issues

Simply not true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Africa_and_the_Middle_East
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Asia

Here's the list of school related events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers#School_massacres

are you sympathetic to american gun laws??

Which ones do you think 'caused' this?

Witcher

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The main issue with this type of crime in the US is how they treat the perpetrators of such crimes. These people are practically turned into celebrities. The news stations give them so much attention, you know every little thing about their lives, even what they ate for breakfast before they went and shot everyone. Meanwhile nobody can even remember the names of any of the victims. I know there's a morbid curiosity about people who would do such terrible things, but it's pretty much glorifying the shooters and probably gives other people who are of a similar unstable disposition validation in their own messed up minds to go and carry out something similar.

The best thing would be to just ignore the shooters. Talk about the victims and their families, and just gloss over the perpetrators and stop giving them the attention they clearly desperately crave. That will never happen though.

Yeah that's what he was saying, the airtime that guy James Holmes got after the shooting was ridiculous.

Oranage2

Wow crazy stuff, shot his own mother as well.

Rip everyone else.

Piliger

MadsL wrote: »

Cars, root of all traffic accidents. Ban em.

Cars are designed to transport people. Guns are design to kill people.

Utter bunk. 112k gas stations in the US, 50k gun dealers.

210,000 gun dealers in the USA.

A nation like America has no need to be afraid of it's Government because of that amendment. If you cannot comprehend the 2nd amendment I suggest you read more about American History.

I suggest you read more about the rationale that the gun lobby uses to justify indiscriminate access to weapons.

I would also remind you that Ireland had an armed uprising and armed rebellion against an Irish government in recent history.

No it didn't.

Notable is that many of the recent mass killings have been in "gun free" zones.

What a joke. Gun free zones in the US.... yeah right.

Da Shins Kelly

Blay wrote: »

Yeah that's what he was saying, the airtime that guy James Holmes got after the shooting was ridiculous.

I happened to be in the US when that happened and it was insanely sensationalist, everything surrounding that guy. They even televised him being charged in court. Crazy stuff.

Witcher

Piliger wrote: »

What a joke. Gun free zones in the US.... yeah right.

Schools and universities are among those defined as 'gun free zones' in the US, whether you believe it or not they do exist.

MadsL

Blay wrote: »

Yeah that's what he was saying, the airtime that guy James Holmes got after the shooting was ridiculous.

The irony is the psychologist on NBC saying exactly that, as they roll on with the non-stop coverage. I'm switching off now and ask that other posters consider a sense of perspective. There are approximately twenty such incidents in the US each year (guy shot himself here, just down the street, in a public building) - they are not increasing in frequency over that last twenty years or so.

I naturally express my sympathies, and it is particular awful that these were basic babies who were the victims.

Biut to those that seem to think this is an exclusively American phenomenon I suggest stopping and doing some research.

My name is URL

Loads of US news networks are interviewing people who are describing the events as 'historic' ones. I'm no expert but doesn't that sort of sensationalise and even glamorise things? What a bunch of complete idiots they are...

Thrill

CBS reporting guns were purchased LEGALLY and belonged to the shooter, Ryan Lanza.

Brother of shooter Ryan Lanza in custody

Overheal

Piliger wrote: »

What a joke. Gun free zones in the US.... yeah right.

New York City has one the highest rates of homicide in the world, and yet the ownership of guns is prohibited there. Amazing, isn't it?