Another mass shooting in the U.S

Witcher

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Why would anyone need a fully automatic machine gun? Why would anyone need 2?

There has only been 2 crimes committed in the US with a legally held fully automatic rifle. If you go to the thread on the cinema shooting you will find the links to them.

You can't just walk in off the street in the US and buy a fully automatic rifle..you do understand that?

starbelgrade

What is it with the Americans and their school gun-spree mass murders?

It's seriously fucked up.

Sky King

BobbyPropane wrote: »

My point is that Gun control in America is too lenient.

And my point is that making it stricter won't make a difference. A shotgun will kill someone just as well as semi automatic rifle in close quarters.

BobbyPropane

Blay wrote: »

There has only been 2 crimes committed in the US with a legally held fully automatic rifle. If you go to the thread on the cinema shooting thread you will find the links to them.

You can't just walk in off the street in the US and buy a fully automatic rifle..you do understand that?

No ****. Then where are these weapons coming from? They may not be legally held but they still may be legally made in America and legally sold in America. Why is it that there are constant mass killings in America? Give me a solid reason why people have no trouble picking up a weapon and shooting people? Why does it seem these people have no problems getting a weapon in the first place? China nearly has three times the population of America and yet there are less mass civilian shootings there than in the "land of freedom"

MadsL

BobbyPropane wrote: »

That's a developing country. America is a developed country and there are much more mass shootings in America than there are in China. The death toll in America is also much greater and I believe that there has been 4 mass killings in America since June!?!?!

Shootings - is there a dintinction?

There are mass killings all over the world - Asia leads the list of incidents here, not America. The death toll is not greater in the US. And the US doesn't head the list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

#1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
#2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon

Norway and South Korea respectively.

Witcher

BobbyPropane wrote: »

No ****. Then where are these weapons coming from? They may not be legally held but they still may be legally made in America and legally sold in America. Why is it that there are constant mass killings in America? Give me a solid reason why people have no trouble picking up a weapon and shooting people? Why does it seem these people have no problems getting a weapon in the first place? China nearly has three times the population of America and yet there are less mass civilian shootings there than in the "land of freedom"

Which of these shootings in the US involved a fully automatic rifle? Name one.

The problem in the US is with society, not with firearms. These threads always result in the inevitable comparison between the US and Switzerland..look at firearms ownership there...how many people go shooting kids in a school in Zurich etc? Look at the high firearms ownership rate in the Czech Republic...how many school shootings there?

A high firearms ownership rate does not always mean people will be murdered, when it's combined with other factors it becomes an issue..exactly what the factors are that make it a problem in the US is what some professors there spend their lives looking at. People here are always quick to lay the blame on firearms because it's easy to blame that which you do not understand yourself.

tails_naf

Blay wrote: »

Centrefire pistols are no longer available here here, if you had one before 2008 you can keep it. But right now anybody can go and licence a .22lr pistol once you have a reason to hold it. I don't know what the focus is on pistols anyway, there has never been one crime committed with a legally held pistol in Ireland, they were banned because the gov. feared they would be stolen in robberies, despite not one ever having been stolen.

And what are the valid reasons to hold them in Ireland? Can you link to it?
Do you think everyone in Ireland could get one - i.e. everyone in Ireland could claim these as valid reasons?

And yes, pistols are used in crimes in every country where they are available and this country is right the control them. I believe there is a stat in the USA that 2% of gun-deaths in the US were in self-defense. The rest were murder/robbery/other crime.

More availability of pistols would mean more crimes that involve them.

BobbyPropane

Blay wrote: »

Which of these shootings in the US involved a fully automatic rifle? Name one.

The problem in the US is with society, not with firearms. These threads always result in the inevitable comparison between the US and Switzerland..look at firearms ownership there...how many people go shooting kids in a school in Zurich etc? Look at the high firearms ownership rate in the Czech Republic...how many school shootings there?

A high firearms ownership rate does not always mean people will be murdered, when it's combined with other factors it becomes an issue..exactly what the factors are that make it a problem in the US is what some professors there spend their lives looking at.

Thanks for summing it up. Americans are not capable of owning weapons so they should be banned in their country.

My name is URL

CNN interviewing 10 year old kids who have just witnessed their school-friends being murdered in front of them... stay classy.

MadsL

BobbyPropane wrote: »

No ****. Then where are these weapons coming from? They may not be legally held but they still may be legally made in America and legally sold in America. Why is it that there are constant mass killings in America? Give me a solid reason why people have no trouble picking up a weapon and shooting people? Why does it seem these people have no problems getting a weapon in the first place? China nearly has three times the population of America and yet there are less mass civilian shootings there than in the "land of freedom"

Why are you fixed on shootings?

Mass killing happen all over the world, shootings happen less in China because guns are expensive and they have a blade tradition rather than a ballistic one.

I've already linked that there are more mass killings in Asia than the Americas (including South America)

As to legal weapons, people have legal weapons in Ireland, but they are very controlled. Are you suggesting that there is no gun crime in Ireland because Limerick called to remind you they were once the murder capital of Europe.

suicide_circus

If all the children and staff in that school were carrying guns, this would never have happened.

tails_naf

Blay wrote: »

Which of these shootings in the US involved a fully automatic rifle? Name one.

Fully automatic vs semi-automatic. A semi-automatic can still deliver a hundred rounds in 2-3 minutes, so the fact that you have to pull the trigger for every shot is kind of irrelevant.
So please don't try to bog down the argument in technicalities. A gun capable of delivering that amount of fire-power is not for hunting and should not be available to the public.

Witcher

tails_naf wrote: »

And what are the valid reasons to hold them in Ireland? Can you link to it?
Do you think everyone in Ireland could get one - i.e. everyone in Ireland could claim these as valid reasons?

And yes, pistols are used in crimes in every country where they are available and this country is right the control them. I believe there is a stat in the USA that 2% of gun-deaths in the US were in self-defense. The rest were murder/robbery/other crime.

More availability of pistols would mean more crimes that involve them.

Target shooting..being a member of a range. I'm a member of a range, I could go put at deposit on one with my firearms dealer in the morning, hand in the form and probably have it inside 2 weeks same as my other firearms.

'Every other country'..but not Ireland, as I stated the issue wasnt with the danger of people having them legally here, it was fear of them being stolen.

MadsL

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Thanks for summing it up. Americans are not capable of owning weapons so they should be banned in their country.

What would I cut my steak with?

tails_naf

suicide_circus wrote: »

If all the children and staff in that school were carrying guns, this would never have happened.

True. Many more people would have been killed in the chaos and cross-fire.

c_man

kincsem wrote: »

Do not allow people to own guns. Is that ok?

Not really. There's places in the States people rely on guns.

Witcher

tails_naf wrote: »

Fully automatic vs semi-automatic. A semi-automatic can still deliver a hundred rounds in 2-3 minutes, so the fact that you have to pull the trigger for every shot is kind of irrelevant.
So please don't try to bog down the argument in technicalities. A gun capable of delivering that amount of fire-power is not for hunting and should not be available to the public.

You're the one who mentioned fully automatic firearms. Learn your terminology better and those who know better won't call you up on it.

People here use them for hunting too, you better go state your complaints to the Gardai.

BobbyPropane

MadsL wrote: »

What would I cut my steak with?

Butter Knife

Piliger

starbelgrade wrote: »

What is it with the Americans and their school gun-spree mass murders?

It's seriously fucked up.

They are obsessed with guns as a sort of national fetish. Guns and violence is glorified. There are more gun dealers in the US than petrol stations ! FFS

All because they are afraid of their government ... can you believe this sh1t ? you could not make it up. The Land of the Free .... the Greatest Country in the World .... you know ... all the garbage they keep telling the rest of us ? Yet they are so afraid of their Government that they want everyone to have guns.

Their answer to mass murders in universities and high schools ? they want teachers and lecturers to be armed. I visited two schools there in 2008 and it is like a war zone ... with armed security guards.

America is the worst country for gun violence and gun murder and mass murders in schools and malls in the world bar none.

JupiterKid

Guns, along with religion, are at the heart of all that is wrong with America.

I can't see how anyone can defend guns in the wake of this appalling and senseless act of evil.

BobbyPropane

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/279656777824497664

suicide_circus

tails_naf wrote: »

True. Many more people would have been killed in the chaos and cross-fire.

Hey. Relax , guy!

I was just trying out some NRA logic

Courtesy Flush

Somehow this seems even worse than before, the fact that it's an elementary school with such young kids

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

Mass killing happen all over the world, shootings happen less in China because ..... they have a blade tradition rather than a ballistic one.

Yep, China, where gunpowder was invented......

Witcher

JupiterKid wrote: »

Guns, along with religion, are at the heart of all that is wrong with America.

I can't see how anyone can defend guns in the wake of this appalling and senseless act of evil.

I don't think anybody is denying that firearms can be bad in the wrong hands but clamping down on them doesn't have the 100% assurance of peace that people think it will, evidence from this side of the Atlantic shows that. The issue is with the people who would use them to cause harm. Like Anders Breivik, bided his time and got the firearms legally and then slaughtered people with them..those with violence on their mind will carry it out not matter what the price is.

tails_naf

Blay wrote: »

You're the one who mentioned fully automatic firearms. Learn your terminology better and those who know better won't call you up on it.

People here use them for hunting too, you better go state your complaints to the Gardai.

And you were the one who was hung up on the fact that they were not fully-automatic, so therefore perfectly acceptable, when the reality is there is very little difference between the two in this case - as both will deliver more fire power than any normal gun-usage required.

I've been to gun ranges, and in fact like target shooting. No one needs to unload 100 rounds in 2-3 minutes. These guns should not be available in any shape or form to the public. Full, Semi or anything else.

Thrill

NBC News: Parent of CT gunman found dead at NJ home

kincsem

Telegraph.co.uk

The following is a list of the most notable mass shootings that have occurred in the United States since Columbine in 1999.

Follow live coverage of Denver shooting at Batman screening
April 1999 - two teenage schoolboys shot and killed 12 schoolmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.
July 1999 - a stock exchange trader in Atlanta, Georgia, killed 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.
September 1999 - a gunman opened fire at a prayer service in Fort Worth, Texas, killing six people before committing suicide.
October 2002 - a series of sniper-style shootings occurred in Washington DC, leaving 10 dead.
August 2003 - in Chicago, a laid-off worker shot and killed six of his former workmates.
November 2004 - in Birchwood, Wisconsin, a hunter killed six other hunters and wounded two others after an argument with them.
March 2005 - a man opened fire at a church service in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.
October 2006 - a truck driver killed five schoolgirls and seriously wounded six others in a school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania before taking his own life.
April 2007 - student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people and wounded 15 others at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, before shooting himself, making it the deadliest mass shooting in the United States after 2000.
August 2007 - Three Delaware State University students were shot and killed in “execution style” by a 28-year-old and two 15-year-old boys. A fourth student was shot and stabbed.
September 2007 - A freshman student at Delaware State University shot and wounded two other students at a campus dining hall.
December 2007 - a 20-year-old man killed nine people and injured five others in a shopping center in Omaha, Nebraska.
December 2007 - a woman and her boyfriend shot dead six members of her family on Christmas Eve in Carnation, Washington.
February 2008 - a shooter who is still at large tied up and shot six women at a suburban clothing store in Chicago, leaving five of them dead and the remaining one injured.
February 2008 - a man opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, killing five students and wounding 16 others before laying down his weapon and surrendering.
July 2008 – A former student shot three people in a computer lab at South Mountain Community College, Phoenix, Arizona.
September 2008 - a mentally ill man who was released from jail one month earlier shot eight people in Alger, Washington, leaving six of them dead and the rest two wounded.
October 2008 - Several men in a car drove up to a dormitory at the University of Central Arkansas and opened fire, killing two students and injuring a third person.
December 2008 - a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.
March 2009 - a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.
March 2009 - a heavily-armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.
March 2009 - six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.
April 2009 – An 18-year-old former student followed a pizza deliveryman into his old dormitory, and shot the deliveryman, a dorm monitor, and himself at Hampton University, Virginia.
April 2009 - a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.
July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.
November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.
February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others
January 2011 - a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tuscon, Arizona, killing six people including a nine-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head.
July 2012 - Masked gunman opens fire at midnight cinema screen of new Batman film The Dark Knight Rises, killing 12 and injuring 58. Suspect James Holmes is arrested by police, awaiting trial.
August 2012 - Gunman kills six people at SIkh temple in Wisconsin before being shot dead by police. Suspect is named as white supremacists Wade Michael Page.

statesaver

suicide_circus wrote: »

Hey. Relax , guy!

I was just trying out some NRA logic

The NRA will say tomorrow " why weren't the children armed, would never of happened if they were armed "

1ZRed

UrbanSea wrote: »

Can't believe the stupidity of a huge number of Americans defending the gun laws over there. It seems no matter how many of these mass shootings occur they'll still defend it

Worst of all they think it takes away their freedom if they're aren't permitted guns. As if guns give you freedom. This isn't the old west ffs!!