Why is atheist Ireland/Michael Nugent given free advertising space on boards.ie?

Michael Nugent

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You'll have to provide usernames of others who are using the site politically lobby as official representations of their respective pressure groups to demonstrate that you are not receiving uniquely special treatment.

No, I will not have to provide that.

You have made the claim that I am being treated uniquely, and the onus of proof is on you to substantiate that claim.

You can’t just keep moving the goalposts and expect people to keep following you and them around the field.

We have now agreed that

• There are grey areas that have to be addressed flexibly.
• When people have different opinions, the moderators should decide.
• The moderators must decide within parameters decided by the site owners.

So which parameters specifically do you think the A&A moderators are bound by? You mention only one. That is:

• 'Don't advertise your company'.

However:

• Atheist Ireland is neither a company, nor a commercial organization. It is a voluntary non profit association.
• You have neglected to highlight the associated rule ‘Discretion of the Moderator’ which begins: ‘If you think these rules bind the moderators hands, think again.’
• Also, you have failed to explain why you are not also complaining about the Irish Skeptics Society’s two-monthly lectures being regularly advertised on A&A.

Instead you are again moving the goalposts, now coming up with a different personal criteria unrelated to advertising, and insisting that I should give you a list of usernames to satisfy your shifting personal criteria for you complaining only about me.

Here is the list again - all of the following have been promoted on A&A, in terms of events, launches, petitions, websites etc.

• Irish Skeptics Society (two-monthly lectures with admission charge)
• Irish Humanist Association
• Educate Together
• Cork Humanists
• UCD Secular Humanist Society
• NUIG Skeptics
• British Humanist Association
• European Skeptics Convention
• National demonstration to legislate for X case
• Protest the Pope march in London
• Proposed Ex-Christian support group
• Proposed DIT Atheist Society
• Proposed TCD Secular and Atheist Society

And I ask again: are you also complaining about all of these posts?
.

[-0-]

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This is total bull****. I've never been banned, nevermind infracted. Get your facts straight or stop lying.

How many warnings do you think you have received? I'm willing to bet it's in the double figures.

You don't care about how the forum is run, you just want to try to get one over on Michael.

You have an agenda and it is not to make boards a better place, it is to make it a worse one.

Nodin

[-0-] wrote: »

How many warnings do you think you have received? I'm willing to bet it's in the double figures.

You don't care about how the forum is run, you just want to try to get one over on Michael.

You have an agenda and it is not to make boards a better place, it is to make it a worse one.

I'd make one change to the above

You don't care about Michael, you just want to try to get one over on the Forum

..other than that, grand.

Michael Nugent

Brown Bomber, I’ve decided to do some of your research for you.

Here are some posts from A&A, all of which I believe greatly improve the forum. Some of them predate the existence of Atheist Ireland, and they all counter your allegation that I and Atheist Ireland are being treated uniquely.

Now please have the good grace to drop this issue, instead of also complaining about these posts.

Seriously. Don’t just respond to this. Think about it for a while.

The purpose of Boards is to bring people together to discuss things they want to discuss. The rule are there for the benefit of the community.

Think of all of the following people, working hard to do good things and to make information about those good things available, to people who are interested in that information, in a forum devoted to discussing such topics, and then let them get on with their discussion without disrupting it for no good reason.

Skeptic Groups

Myksyk wrote: »

Hi Mods, hope this is ok ...

The 13th European Skeptics Congress is being hosted by the Irish Skeptics Society in Dublin in September this year.

You can register for the Congress on our site and see all the details of the weekend including a list of the speakers.

We hope to see as many of you there as possible.

Myksyk wrote: »

Bumping ... plus update

Preparations for the 13th ECSO congress to be hosted by the Irish Skeptics Society are well under way and we are looking forward to a stimulating event from Friday Sept 7th to Sunday Sept 9th next.

The conference theme is “The Assault on Science: Constructing a Response” and we are delighted to have gathered together such an impressive lineup of national and international speakers. As well as presentations from ten invited speakers there will be a range of free papers that have been selected by the conference committee....

Among the Irish presenters we are proud to have Professors John Crown and David McConnell and Dr Brian Hughes. They will consider challenges within medicine, genetics and health psychology respectively....

This is but a small sample of what to expect and a detailed programme with titles and abstracts will be published shortly.

We want this to be a successful and invigorating congress and look forward to lively presentations and debate. We will host an opening reception on the Friday evening and the congress dinner on Saturday evening. This is a great opportunity to hear and to meet prominent scientists and skeptics from across Europe and further afield and we would urge you to register as soon as possible to contribute, through your presence, to what is sure to be a memorable occasion.

robindch wrote: »

Date and time: Wednesday October 17th at 8.00pm
Location: Davenport Hotel, Merrion Square, Dublin 2.
Topic: Martin Gardner – personal reminiscences and Irish connections
Speaker: Professor Colm Mulcahy, Spelman College, Atlanta Georgia.
Admission: €3 (Members and concessions); €6 (Non-members)

The ISS commences its Autumn/Winter lecture series on Wednesday, October 17th, with a Maths Week lecture given by Professor Colm Mulcahy, a lecturer in mathematics from Spelman College, Atlanta, Georgia.

American man of letters and numbers and patterns and puzzles, Martin Gardner (1914--2010), wrote about 100 books, starting with "Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science" sixty years ago. That lead to his playing a founding role in CSICOP (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) and the Skeptical Inquirer magazine. He was most well-known for his book The Annotated Alice (in Wonderland), the 300 columns he wrote for Scientific American, mostly on recreational mathematics, and the huge body of magic he created. Professor Mulcahy will survey his legacy and touch on his little-known professional Irish interests and connections.

robindch wrote: »

The Irish Skeptics' final talk for 2012 is taking place tomorrow evening, Wednesday, December 12th, at 8pm in the Davenport Hotel, where Professor Mike Gibney (Director of the Institute for Food and Health, UCD) and author of the recent book Something to Chew on: Challenging Controversies in Food and Health, gives a talk entitled "Facts and fancy of food and health".

This presentation will look at food and health from the point of view of both nutrition and food safety. As regards the latter, Prof Gibney will cover the myth that things "natural" are always superior to those that are synthetic. In all aspects of life we trade risk with benefit and this is also true of the human food chain. Risk is considered and if below certain levels, is accepted and the process of defining that risk will be presented. The 'natural' versus synthetic' debate will be explored in relation to organic agriculture and to genetically modified foods.

The ISS will be celebrating its 10th birthday on the night, so there'll be a glass of (non-slimline) mulled wine on offer before the talk

Dubhghaillix wrote: »

Oh Hai!Mah fellow Non-Believers,

Just to spread the word, PZ Myers is looking to come to Ireland and give a talk at NUIG

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/i_see_there_are_a_few_wacky_pe.php

There were a few comments from ppl from other Universities around the country, UCC, Maynooth, and one or two others I think, who'd want to see if he'd be interested in doing a tour. If anyone from either a Bio/Zoology dept/society, or any Atheist/Agnostic soc out there looking to get in on the PZ action drop us a line: skeptic@socs.nuigalway.ie

May the Science be with you.

-Dubhghaillix (Skeptic Soc Treasurer)

Humanist Groups:

Irish Humanism wrote: »

Hello fellow Atheists and Agnostics!
I hope this is ok with the mods.
www.humanism.ie has just been re-designed.
It contains a lot of info that is of relevance to Irish atheists, agnostics and free thinkers etc. We have some info on humanist ceremonies and the current dialogue with the government. It also contains info on events the humanist society is running. There is also a link to this discussion forum in the links section.

I hope the mods don't mind the plug. It's a volunteer's organisation and we are aiming to get amongst other things equal rights for atheist and agnostics in this state.

Kind Regards

Irish Humanism wrote: »

There are humanist societies in most countries. Most of them sign up to the Amsterdam declaration and they are active in some cases all the way up to the UN.

Humanist societies exist for a number of reasons:
* Equal rights. You should not be descriminated against because you don't have a religion or don't believe in a God.
* Philosophical reasons. Just like the Skeptics society facilitates the meeting up of like minded people, has some interesting speakers and all sorts of other stuff, the humanist society would also exist.

Other members would have their other reasons, but speaking for myself one very important reason to me is that I would value morality and try to live an ethical life. I do think caring about human suffering and using reason to lesson it, is very very important. I do not feel atheism alone, even though I am very much an atheist, represents this part of my belief system.

As for the comment about ceremonies. The Civil ceremony is secular but the solemniser is from the HSE and will only do the ceremony Mon - Fri, in certain places. It all depends what you want and what you feel represents your own beliefs.

Irish Humanism wrote: »

Hi All,
Some info of this on our site:
http://www.humanism.ie/

Also, there is a poll running with the following question:
Should the government remove the stipulaton that a religious oath must be taken in order to become a judge or the president in Ireland?

Kind Regards to all.
Irish Humanism.

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Atheist Ireland and the Humanist Association of Ireland are asking voters to vote for candidates who support secular policies in the General Election on Friday.

You can read a summary of the replies from parties and candidates to the six secular policy questions we sent them, and a summary of secular policies in the party manifestos, on the Atheist Ireland website.

How did the parties and candidates reply to our questions on secular policies?

Kaulo27 wrote: »

Hi there,
Thought you might be interested to know that the launch of the Cork Humanists is taking place this Sunday at 12am in the Imperial Hotel. The Cork Humanists is an organisation which is dedicated to supporting the needs of the non-religious of Cork. We aim to provide a space for the freethinkers of all ages to meet and to run events and projects they are interested in.Check out our website www.corkhumanists.com for more details.

Fortyniner wrote: »

The Cork Humanists (www.corkhumanists.com) established themselves last month, and here's a note on their second meeting (all welcome):

Next Meeting / Secular Education Event
On Sunday of 6th of November we will be holding our second meeting in the Quay Co-op at 12 noon. The meeting willl centre on the issue of secular education and guest speakers will include Jane Donnelly, education policy officer for Atheist Ireland and Colm Breen, who is one of our own members, a local resource teacher and will be talking about the establishment of a non-denominational primary school in cork. The meeting will take place in the newly refurbished meeting room owned and run by the Quay Co-op, which is located on Cove St. Cork just behind the Quay Co-op's main premises . For those of you who are driving there is parking located just across the bridge here. On the day we will be having some teas and coffees before we begin the meeting so feel free to bring along some home baking.

Amongst the subjects that will be addressed by Jane and Colm, will be the constitutional situation in relation to secular education, the current state of play with Educate Together Schools, the relationship between VEC Schools and the Catholic church and how people can get involved in secular education projects. The issue of patronage within the schools system will also be discussed. A link to the facebook event can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=238252092895327

As we are still in the process of setting up we would encourage supporters of the Cork Humanists to attend the meeting as we will also facilitate a short discussion amongst our members on issues pertaining to the Cork Humanists itself; what our goals are and what events people would like to see run.

Inaugural Meeting on Youtube
Loads of you have emailed in saying how disappointed you were at missing the inaugural meeting, so thanks to our members Tom Kennedy and Sean O'Connell we've put it up on youtube for you. The videos are on our website

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Hi all! As you may know I'm the auditor of the UCD Humanist society this year, and I'm currently in full swing, issuing invitations to people to come and speak (we've got some fairly good successes so far, I'm generally happy).

Although I fully intend on inviting everyone I can think of who'd be good, there will of course be people I won't invite because I've never heard of them or they simply slip my mind. Suggestions would be welcome!

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

<snip>

The UCD Humanist Society presents James Randi...oh yeah!

All welcome.
Are there any questions? :cool::cool::cool::cool:

Thanks goes to this year's auditor, Chris, who can be contacted via email, the new committee, and of course to Mr. Randi, who has gone out of his way to visit us! And his visit with the UCD Humanists is his only Irish appearance!

For all the info needed, see this post.

Educate Together:

robindch wrote: »

For those interested in Educate Together, there's an online petition here:

http://www.gopetition.com/online/34193.html

...for anybody who'd like to register support!

robindch wrote: »

There's an open Educate Together event, tomorrow evening in Trinity College:



Anybody else interested in going along? If so, please PM and ring the organizers at 01-4292500. The Atrium is just beside the Buttery "pub".

The more the merrier

Potential groups seeking members:

Dev 17 wrote: »

Hello,

Myself and a few others in the college are trying to start an atheist society similar to other colleges but are looking for other Trinity students who may be interested.

We have a forum setup:
http://dusas.infravision.org

It's mostly a contact point for any interested TCD students but of course it's open to students of other colleges and the public in general and we'd invite you to join.

Kind Regards,

Sean.

mad al wrote: »

Would any current and prospective DIT students be interested in joining a atheist society if one was set up? It appears that we are one of the few third level institutions which does not have any form of a non-believer society. I contacted the societies office about setting one up but they never replied:rolleyes:

Social Caios wrote: »

I am trying to start up a support group for those that have experienced the Christian walk of life and for whatever reason have had enough and are struggling with trying to cope without the church and the loss of that social group.

just as AA or NA or a divorce support group, this is for people who have left the church, and for those who have experienced the damage the church can do and need help getting on in life.

The meetings will take place in the college road area of cork city.

If anybody is interested, please leave me a message.
Mark.

lostexpectation wrote: »

peeps over at atheist.ie have finally decided to make the leap to setting up a campaigning group the Irish Atheist Association

still working out the details, the format and the name but I presume its focus will be on assertive atheism and secular equality.

a real world meeting has been set for Sunday 30th November 4pm to 7pm.
Central Hotel
Exchequer St Dublin 2
( just off South Great Georges St. )

find out more here.
http://www.atheist.ie/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=19

PC CDROM

In fairness if the site were to ban people because they had certain "personal interests" mike65 would never have reached 70,000+ posts.

:pac:

Brown Bomber

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Okay, we are agreed on that.


The rule you refer to is 'Don't advertise your company'.

And it has to be read in conjunction with this rule:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/faq.php?faq=bie_faq_guidelines#faq_bie_faq_guidelines_discression

No that is not the rule. There are rules which apply to every forum regardless of who the mods are.

What are the site rules?

While each forum has its own forum charter, the general Boards.ie Charter applies to every forum. Common sense prevails when posting on Boards.ie but below is a brief guide;

• Personal Abuse will not be tolerated – Attack the post and not the poster.
• Spamming / Advertising will not be tolerated – please contact one of the admins, or sales@boards.ie, for more information on advertising.
• Posting the same topic in several forums is considered spamming – Please pick the most appropriate forum for your topic, and post it there.
• Inappropriate Posts will be removed – this includes vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
• Duplicate accounts are not permitted - if you require a duplicate account, please PM one of the admins to discuss it.
• Txt or l33t speak is not permitted. Its very, VERY, hard to read posts constructed in that way!

You must seek permission from Boards.ie Limited before carrying out any commercial activity on boards.ie. Any person or company attempting to advertise or otherwise promote themselves who has not been authorised by us will have their user accounts banned and their posts deleted

That is boards.ie Limited not mods.

And there are other rules along the same lines. Along with a prison full of banned people for doing EXACTLY as you do, but on a much smaller scale.

For example:

Admin
"You were banned for using Boards to plug your website. "

User
" ok, i went about this the wrong way i admit, could you unban please and i'll go through the correct proceedure"

Admin
"There is no correct procedure, we don't allow people to plug their websites on Boards."

And this is from another Admin.

No. There is a blanket Boards rule about advertising please use your common sense.
Draw peoples attention to the event but let them go and find the information for themselves. Point them to a link on the event. Talk about your experience if you have been. Stay away from the like of pricing and testimonials.

Bloodwing

And here's another quote from an admin BB,

Gordon wrote: »

As Penn is saying, if it benefits the forum, if the community want it, then it's a positive addition to the forum and it's allowed. It's clear that the posts provoke discussion and interest, for example, the first 10 links that you posted that were originally posted back in 2011 have garnered lots of thanks or lots of discussion, the vast majority of threads see both.

That's about as close to getting an OK from boards.ie limited as we're ever going to get. What are you hoping to achieve here? An admin has said it's ok and their word is gospel around here. (See what I did there?)

Doctor DooM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No that is not the rule. There are rules which apply to every forum regardless of who the mods are.



That is boards.ie Limited not mods.

And there are other rules along the same lines. Along with a prison full of banned people for doing EXACTLY as you do, but on a much smaller scale.

For example:



And this is from another Admin.

Oh, would you ever stop.

An admin directly adressed this issue. IN THIS THREAD. There is no issue. The situation has been explained to you directly. You've been shown multiple examples of others in the same position as Michael. Virtually every actual user of the forum here in this thread has said they don't have a problem... except you.

You've a petty vendetta and it's been pointed out to you this point scoring will damage the rest of boards but you don't care.

Michael Nugent

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No that is not the rule. There are rules which apply to every forum regardless of who the mods are.

I hope you posted this without reading my later post #125.

If so, can I ask you to please read post #125?

Then please consider taking a break, and thinking about what you are doing, and why you are doing it, before you reply again.

Brown Bomber

Michael Nugent wrote: »

I hope you posted this without reading my later post #125.

If so, can I ask you to please read post #125?

Then please consider taking a break, and thinking about what you are doing, and why you are doing it, before you reply again.

okay, done that. Now if you could please explain why the site rules with regards to self-promotion & advertising don't apply to you but do apply to countless others.

Bloodwing

Brown Bomber wrote: »

okay, done that. Now if you could please explain why the site rules with regards to self-promotion & advertising don't apply to you but do apply to countless others.

Read Gordon's post BB, it answers all your questions. You can't keep sticking your head in the sand.

Dades

Morag wrote: »

Brown Bomber did you PM the mods of the A&A forum about this?

No he bloody didn't and I'm really hacked off that I'm only seeing this thread 9 pages in (thanks Gordon). Seriously, BB, what gives?

Bloodwing wrote: »

It was mentioned by the mods of A+A that they are looking at this and one of the things being considered is a specific thread for Michael to post events in as opposed to a new thread every time.

This is correct. If you had PM'd me Brown Bomber I'd have told what has already been said in public, that a single thread for AI related announcements was being discussed - something which Michael himself saw and was happy to comply with, were it implemented. Of course being end of year in work and approaching Christmas with kids means some things get put aside temporarily.

Right now though, I'm more inclined to ask for you to be subscribed to every single thread, than to consolidate them in one.

Doctor DooM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

okay, done that. Now if you could please explain why the site rules with regards to self-promotion & advertising don't apply to you but do apply to countless others.

Ignoring my last 2 posts on this topic doesn't change the fact that this has been already addressed by an admin in this thread and your entire argument is based on nothing.

Michael Nugent

Brown Bomber wrote: »

okay, done that. Now if you could please explain why the site rules with regards to self-promotion & advertising don't apply to you but do apply to countless others.

If you can reply with that after reading my post #125, and Doctor DooM’s post #129, then I’ve nothing more to say to you.

I’m not interested in having an endless Groundhog Day argument, over and over again, with new information just being ignored.

Nodin

Bloodwing wrote: »

Read Gordon's post BB, it answers all your questions. You can't keep sticking your head in the sand.

Alas, ye'd be wrong there.

Gordon

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No that is not the rule. There are rules which apply to every forum regardless of who the mods are.



That is boards.ie Limited not mods.

And there are other rules along the same lines. Along with a prison full of banned people for doing EXACTLY as you do, but on a much smaller scale.

For example:



And this is from another Admin.

I don't consider something 'advertising', as you quote the rules, if it benefits the community in the bigger picture, I call it community interest. There's a difference between advertising and community interest, it's a fine line that Mods have to judge, and can be quite contentious for a small few. It has to be a small few, as a larger few would weigh upon the validity of the community interest.

It has long been the case on boards that certain levels of user advertising is good for the community, it depends on the context and the level of community interest. We've modded this way for a long time, so to misquote a well oiled mantra 'how can we fix it if it isn't broken?'.

Brown Bomber

Gordon wrote: »

I don't consider something 'advertising', as you quote the rules, if it benefits the community in the bigger picture, I call it community interest. There's a difference between advertising and community interest, it's a fine line that Mods have to judge, and can be quite contentious for a small few. It has to be a small few, as a larger few would weigh upon the validity of the community interest.

It has long been the case on boards that certain levels of user advertising is good for the community, it depends on the context and the level of community interest. We've modded this way for a long time, so to misquote a well oiled mantra 'how can we fix it if it isn't broken?'.

Thanks for the response. I understand where you are coming from but it leaves some things lingering still.

1. Why is there no mention of "community interest" in the terms of use and a total ban on free advertising?
2. Why have two other admins stated the exact opposite to you regarding self-promotion?
3. Why are there no other political lobbyists that are given carte blanche to push their agenda?
4. How can selling E100 tickets for an international event (that made a profit) be in anyone's interest more than the seller's?
5. How can a directive being issued to boards users vote in a certain way in an election be in the "community interest"?
6. Is Atheist Ireland's VIP powers to lobby, flog tickets, tell people how to vote and so on unlimited on boards.ie? What can't they do in terms of lobbying/promoting/selling etc
   

EDIT. Also, could you please define what you mean by a "certain level"? Surely 33 different threads (and counting) of pure promotion must be outside a certain level?

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

No he bloody didn't and I'm really hacked off that I'm only seeing this thread 9 pages in (thanks Gordon). Seriously, BB, what gives?

This is correct. If you had PM'd me Brown Bomber I'd have told what has already been said in public, that a single thread for AI related announcements was being discussed - something which Michael himself saw and was happy to comply with, were it implemented. Of course being end of year in work and approaching Christmas with kids means some things get put aside temporarily.

Right now though, I'm more inclined to ask for you to be subscribed to every single thread, than to consolidate them in one.

It wasn't attempt to go behind you back or anything. Also, transparency is a good thing and Feedback is a good system in theory for checks and balances. I don't know what else to say. Evidently the rules are fuzzy in this area. Maybe this a good opportunity to set things straight for the future. I mean every single user who signs up agrees to not ever do what Michael does. Yet he is free to do it incessantly and without any apparent limitations

Doctor DooM

Repeating the same refuted stuff over and over doesn't mean it's suddenly now valid.

Brown Bomber

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Repeating the same refuted stuff over and over doesn't mean it's suddenly now valid.

Could you please explain how boards.ie's own terms of service have been refuted.

]You must seek permission from Boards.ie Limited before carrying out any commercial activity on boards.ie. Any person or company attempting to advertise or otherwise promote themselves who has not been authorised by us will have their user accounts banned and their posts deleted

Michael has both advertised and otherwise promoted himself/org without permission from "Boards.ie Limited".

He posts about 5 posts TOTAL in A&A that are not directly related to Atheist Ireland, dissapears for over a year after and comes back and apparently requests from the mods special treatment to advertise. This is granted despite it being a clear violation of the terms of use.

The justification: the users want it. Which doesn't make any sense because this can only be established after special allowances are made.

Isn't it reasonable that the website Irishmagicnews a " not-for-profit news and reference service site for magic in Ireland" would be welcomed in the magic forum?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60437867

In this case Gordon is actually making the point as I am here.

Oh come on, you know the score, you have the public posting text to your website and posting spam to it also I'm sure.

Our signup rules are something that you have received also. If you are here to post about wonderful products and services then this isn't for you. This is a community, not your advertising board.

If you wish to pay to advertise your site in banners or get a commercial user account you can email hello@boards.ie

Irishmagicnews and Atheist Ireland are each treated entirely differently despite engaging in exactly the same behaviours, except one gets the boot while the other gets the red carpet rolled out for them. It's completely unfair.

If nothing else there needs to be some kind of clarity going forward, There is all kinds of conflicting information.

For example:

A Mod

Ok, first off advertising of ANY kind is prohibited except by express permission of the site administrators.

Another Admin

First it is free puppies. Then it is a charity fund-raiser night. Then it is a monster raffle to raise money. Then it is car-boot sale and so on. If we let one advert in, the floodgates are open.

That's what Adverts.ie is for.

So while I accept it may appear a little harsh, I hope you can understand why we take a tough line on advertisements in the main forum and ask that they be placed on adverts.ie.

This is to preserve the main Boards.ie site as it was intended - a discussion forum.

And the scenarios involved in the above two comments were about as far removed from E100 Tickets for a conference hosting Richard Dawkins as can be. They were requests to attempt to rehome puppies and raise awareness of a DVD produced by Lyme Disease sufferers.

So it's girl with Lyme disease - no. Guy with free puppies - no, Guy from atheist pressure group selling tickets - yes. Completely unfair.

Ares

Dades wrote: »

Right now though, I'm more inclined to ask for you to be subscribed to every single thread, than to consolidate them in one.

Why would you the above. That would be a clear abuse of your moderating powers, using them as a petty way in which to annoy Brown Bomber.

Dades

^^ Could someone post the "not sure if serious" pic, please - I'm on mobile.

Delirium

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Could you please explain how boards.ie's own terms of service have been refuted.


Michael has both advertised and otherwise promoted himself/org without permission from "Boards.ie Limited".

Incorrect. Gordon has said that he doesn't view it as advertising.

Isn't it reasonable that the website Irishmagicnews a " not-for-profit news and reference service site for magic in Ireland" would be welcomed in the magic forum?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60437867

In this case Gordon is actually making the point as I am here.


Irishmagicnews and Atheist Ireland Michael Nugent are each treated entirely differently despite engaging in exactly the same behaviours, except one gets the boot while the other gets the red carpet rolled out for them. It's completely unfair.

FYP.

Irishmagicnews clearly signed up to promote the site, not engage in discussion with the forum users. Michael hasn't been doing that, he has taken part in many threads in the forum (including ones he didn't create).

Are we to disallow people posting articles from news sites now, as that would fall under your definition of "advertising"?

Penn

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Thanks for the response. I understand where you are coming from but it leaves some things lingering still.

1. Why is there no mention of "community interest" in the terms of use and a total ban on free advertising?
2. Why have two other admins stated the exact opposite to you regarding self-promotion?
3. Why are there no other political lobbyists that are given carte blanche to push their agenda?
4. How can selling E100 tickets for an international event (that made a profit) be in anyone's interest more than the seller's?
5. How can a directive being issued to boards users vote in a certain way in an election be in the "community interest"?
6. Is Atheist Ireland's VIP powers to lobby, flog tickets, tell people how to vote and so on unlimited on boards.ie? What can't they do in terms of lobbying/promoting/selling etc
   

EDIT. Also, could you please define what you mean by a "certain level"? Surely 33 different threads (and counting) of pure promotion must be outside a certain level?

Bomber, what you're suggesting is a specific outline of the requirements to be allowed to advertise. It's not that simple, and something so specific would never be written into any charter or rules on Boards. Each case has to be judged on its own merits. That's what the mods are there for. Any such rules for one forum would not be applicable to another forum with a different advertiser or event. The mods are trusted to use their own judgement for their own forum. Hell, recently as a CMod I was involved in a case where some mods of a forum thought a poster shouldn't be advertising an event, and the other mods were willing to allow it. Both sides had fair and equally valid arguments. In the end, the mods and Cmods discussed it together and allowed it under certain conditions, to ensure no negative aspect would come from allowing it, and it could only benefit the forum and the forum regulars.

Each case has to be taken on its own merits, and any such clarifications you want addressed in the site rules will likely only tie some mods hands in the future.

Honestly, just drop it. It's over.

Wibbs

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Isn't it reasonable that the website Irishmagicnews a " not-for-profit news and reference service site for magic in Ireland" would be welcomed in the magic forum?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60437867

In this case Gordon is actually making the point as I am here.


Irishmagicnews and Atheist Ireland are each treated entirely differently despite engaging in exactly the same behaviours, except one gets the boot while the other gets the red carpet rolled out for them. It's completely unfair.

From my reading of it Irishmagicnews signed up as the organisation just to promote their thing. Now the "Michael is a personal account, not AI" is a bit of a fudge for me, however his history in A&A is far more back and forth discussion than in that case. It would be comparable if IMN were namechecked in a thread and he/they came on to explain their position and take part in the discussion and then with local support promote stuff of interest to the locals, but they didn't.

It is a grey area and I for one am glad this thread was started, because going forward(hate that phrase ) I'd certainly be more open to possible forum interactions from people/orgs like Michael. Cos TBH in a couple of cases I think I was personally more heavy handed "these are de rulez" than maybe I should have been for the sake of the forum and the community. I reckon if it had been me I'd have left Michaels initial posts alone, but would have refused permission for the AI promotions(if he hadn't PM'd the mods as he did, I'd have nuked from orbit TBH), or worked out something where they'd all go into one thread, precisely to avoid accusations like this thread. Hindsights a great thing mind you.

Just speaking personally here, for me the hard part is working out the "value to the forum" aspect of an organisation or obvious rep from one. Like I say I'd nuke them on first sight, so they'd never get the chance to be value if you see what I mean? The black and white "we've signed up to spam" are easy peasy, but others aren't always so easy. One example in the Watches forum springs readily. The chap although representing a brand was very helpful when questions on that brand (and others) came up and his username wasn't the brand. He certainly didn't sign up with "Hi I'm Rolex, here's our stocklist, don't buy anything else". We warned him and suggested contacting the office(which he did) and he pretty much stopped posting. With the old hindsight going I think I was too heavy handed/black and white and now I'd be arguing for giving more leeway. Ditto in the Ladies Lounge should it come up.

So yea good thread for me anyway. I've learned something. Makes a change

Beruthiel

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The mods of individual forums. However, their decisions must be formed within certain parameters dictated by whoever runs the site. One of these decisions is that advertising is not allowed.

Michael is a welcome contributor of the A&A forum.
I appreciate his input to the community and on more than one occasion he has highlighted something I was not aware of.

There are many people on this site who have businesses and are allowed to stay on the site. Why? Because they contribute to the community and the Mods are happy to have them post in their forum.
The regulars on those forums will be aware that there are members among them with businesses.
They are even allowed to have a subtle link in their sig to their business.

As long as a member is contributing in a positive way without pimping their business, then that has always been fine with Mods and Admins alike.

Michael has been a member of this site for two years and has managed to work within the rules, I cannot say the same of you after looking at your string of infractions/bans.

BB - This is a non issue.

Cabaal

So now we've had two admins say Michael's posts are fine, he is welcome and what he is doing up until now is fine,

I still think Brown Bomber won't accept this and instead will continue to dig a big hole for himself showing himself up to just have a chip on his shoulder against what Michael is posting and nothing more.

Brown Bomber

koth wrote: »

Incorrect. Gordon has said that he doesn't view it as advertising.

This truly is an emperor has no clothes moment. How does that even resemble an honest argument? If Gordon says that black is white do you then accept it as white?

Please explain to me why this blatant advertisement isn't advertising.

Attend the World Atheist Convention in Dublin, June 3-5 2011
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koth wrote: »

Irishmagicnews clearly signed up to promote the site, not engage in discussion with the forum users. Michael hasn't been doing that, he has taken part in many threads in the forum (including ones he didn't create).

He took part in 1 thread, that's 1 thread before he was given a blank cheque to do whatever he wants that violate terms of service. I have demonstrated that less than 10% of his posts are non-atheist Ireland post.

Doctor DooM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This truly is an emperor has no clothes moment. How does that even resemble an honest argument? If Gordon says that black is white do you then accept it as white?

Please explain to me why this blatant advertisement isn't advertising.



He took part in 1 thread, that's 1 thread before he was given a blank cheque to do whatever he wants that violate terms of service. I have demonstrated that less than 10% of his posts are non-atheist Ireland post.

2 admins now. No violation no matter how hard you say it.

Brown Bomber

Beruthiel wrote: »

Michael has been a member of this site for two years and has managed to work within the rules, I cannot say the same of you after looking at your string of infractions/bans.

BB - This is a non issue.

"We welcome your feedback"... unless we don't and question your character. Even if you haven't even had an infraction in over a year :rolleyes:.

He clearly hasn't. At least the published rules, not the rules we don't tell you about rules.

How can you say it is a non-issue when mods on this thread weren't aware of this unspoken rule that contravenes the terms of use? How can you say it is a non-issue when Admins unequivocally contradict this unspoken rule?