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Eircom Phonewatch

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  • 16-12-2012 2:21am
    #1
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭


    Can anyone tell me if there's a charge on there phone bill due to their alarm ?
    Are you being charged for the test calls the system makes or is it covered in the monitoring fees ?


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    #2
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The test call would go onto your phone bill. It depends on the tariff you have for that. Most would include free local calls etc.


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    #3
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    So how would this work with GSM ? Is it more expensive to monitor GSM based systems ?


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    #4
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    On GSM I think your charged a flat rate for the SIM included in your monitoring fee.


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    #5
    ml100
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    My Parents the have GSM based system, same monthly tariff as landline one


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    #6
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    ml100 wrote: »
    My Parents the have GSM based system, same monthly tariff as landline one

    But much less secure..


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    #7
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    Alot of modern houses have service points at the side of the house where the landline can be cut .
    Although what's stoping them from lifting the lids on the eircom boxes buried in the street and cutting the lines . if they're going to jam the GSM then they'd be prepared to cut lines . Guess that's the risk with self monitoring .
    Why is gsm jamming less common in the states ?


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    #8
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Lifting thew shore in the street or cutting phone lines requires physical tampering, GSM jamming does not. What data are you using for the basis that GSM jamming is less common in the states?


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    #9
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    I can't seem to find any information on gsm jamming in the states .. All the alarm companies over there seem to be all for GSM systems


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    #10
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The UK is the same, still pushing it, just like Eircom are here. Its only when the insurance company's force the issue that change will come. And that will happen once one huge claim goes into them.
    Eircom PW are the same as their Broadband & phone service, always happy to play catchup. Other stations are working on radios. IP, polling & multi comms transmission. PW are still insisting on GSM or an Eircom line.


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    #11
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    but if a poll is missed on a Radio based system what happens ??


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    #12
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Whatever action you agree with the ARC.


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    #13
    Easy Rider
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Easy Rider


    If I may just jump in. I have been looking at Eircom phonewatch but the whole GSM jamming got me thinking of the alternative, which as stated above is radio.

    Who in Dublin offers this? I have only found www.alarmcontrol24.ie , but not sure of alternatives. Anyone use these guys and does anyone know the monthly monitoring cost?

    I have just moved into the new house, it is not wired and I am happy to go down the wireless route if I something suitable non-GSM is around....Cheers!


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    #14
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    G4S also have their own radio network.


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    #15
    Mr. G
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 4,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. G


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Other stations are working on radios. IP, polling & multi comms transmission.

    Sorry to barge in but
    What stations are on IP?

    Will this work with the new HKC IP module?

    Cheers.


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    #16
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Mr_Grumpy wrote: »
    Sorry to barge in but
    What stations are on IP?

    Will this work with the new HKC IP module?

    Cheers.

    G4S should have this up and running with SPC Com in the new year . ACE have IP up and running.
    Not sure whats HKCs plans for their IP yet. There was not very much information forthcoming at their last launch.


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    #17
    Huntthe
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    I have heard of zero cases of jamming on residential properties.


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    #18
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Huntthe wrote: »
    I have heard of zero cases of jamming on residential properties.

    Residential break ins don't generally make the 9 O Clock news.


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    #19
    Huntthe
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    I am in the know.Jammers get plenty of press but in general they are not an issue for Joe public


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    #20
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    I happily use a gsm .
    The point of it is to allow me to turn off the alarm and reset in the event of an activation as to not annoy the neighbours if my keyholders aren't at home .
    If they're going to go to the trouble of jamming it / cutting the phone line /cutting the UPC line I say let them . That's what I have insurance for . If the bells sounding isn't going to startle them and scare them off then they're going to come in . It'll take about half an hour for someone to come and check it out with the current monitoring setup .


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    #21
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Huntthe wrote: »
    I am in the know.Jammers get plenty of press but in general they are not an issue for Joe public

    Im in the know long enough in this business. One thing I've learnt in the security business is to never presume. I would not supply monitoring to any one via GSM without them agreeing they have been informed of the risks of jamming. I would also never presume any risk is not an issue for the average Joe soap. Jamming is not an easy thing to prove unless a jammer is left behind. There are plenty of cases of calls not getting through that simply go unreported or uninvestigated.


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    #22
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    I would only use monitoring if I was going to be given a radio . What's the point of paying for it if there's a chance of a signal not getting through . Il happily use gsm over a poorly set up phone line/ upc for self monitoring
    And if the gsm was polling and multiple neighbours had monitoring by the same company then shouldnt they be suspicious when 5-8 units don't poll ?


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    #23
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    And how would you think the ARC would action missing poll's?


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    #24
    John Kelly of
    Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭John Kelly of


    If jamming comes into widespread use by burglars then phonewatch are going to have to start switching all those gsms out. I suppose if that happens they will try and put the cost on their customers.


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    #25
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    What's worse is they are putting the cost onto their customers now by telling them they can not use provider's like UPC etc. , but fail to mention the risks associated with jamming.
    Its amazing that the largest ARC in the country hasn't got a decent radio network.


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    #26
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    Through the phone lines its once every 24 hours longer with others . By the time the missing poll is realised it's too late .
    not a lot of panels are IP .


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    #27
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    John Kelly of wrote: »
    If jamming comes into widespread use by burglars then phonewatch are going to have to start switching all those gsms out. I suppose if that happens they will try and put the cost on their customers.

    Well they can't really put the cost on their customers .that would be like swapping out all the simon systems for the XT / Siemens /HKC Ect .


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    #28
    Huntthe
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    If Jamming was an issue for residential customers I would know about it. It isn't.
    As regards charging customers for extra or different forms of monitoring should jamminig become an issue, of course they will. It's a business.


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    #29
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Huntthe wrote: »
    If Jamming was an issue for residential customers I would know about it. It isn't.

    A very strange statement to make in this business.Jamming is possible & easy , but you are willing and confident to say its not an issue because you haven't come across it..:confused:
    Like I said I never presume anything when it comes to security. If something is that easy,that cheap & readily available its a risk. Some companies prefer to ignore the issue & don't mention it to customers, possibly to sell & install GSMs, possibly they don't like change, I don't know.
    My theory is its only a matter of time before there is a big robbery using jammers, which will result in a big insurance claim. When that's investigated and insurance companies cop on to the risks then you will see their requirements & criteria change. When that happens I don't want to be the one with hundreds of customers to explain to why I sold them something I knew had risks . If your happy that you'd know about every break in where a digi didn't report, that's fine. Your clearly better informed than the rest of us. As I'm so ill informed I'll continue to err on the side of caution and inform my customers, just in case....


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    #30
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    If I find an issue with anything ,I would inform customers of the risks & whats involved & let them decide.


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    #31
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭altor


    John Kelly of wrote: »
    If jamming comes into widespread use by burglars then phonewatch are going to have to start switching all those gsms out. I suppose if that happens they will try and put the cost on their customers.

    When that happens they will be issued with nice letters warning them of the problem and a nice alternative, at the customers cost of course. Thats if they do something about it. Really is shocking how they will only monitor the alarm through a land line (not upc:confused:) or a gsm.

    www.altor.ie



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