HSE stoops to an new low.

steddyeddy

Boombastic wrote: »

Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?

Boombastic in fairness if you have a problem with the hse fair enough but I dont see the point in getting personal at an individual working there.

Boombastic

donalg1 wrote: »

Unfortunately though I read it thinking it was related to the actual topic and wasnt some off topic rambling.

Let me join the dots for you


HSE needs money so decides to charge the cancer patients. On the other hand they are handing out pay increases to already well paid staff...

Boombastic

steddyeddy wrote: »

Boombastic in fairness if you have a problem with the hse fair enough but I dont see the point in getting personal at an individual working there.

Just wondering if it is standard practice to have a break every hour

donalg1

Zulu wrote: »

Ah right, so you didn't read my other posts.
When you are getting treatment, you are sick, and not working. When you are not working you are not getting paid.
When you are finished your treatment, you go back to work. You start earning. And then you can repay.
I wouldn't have asked my family for help. I wouldn't want to have burdened them. You are also presupposing that the patient has a family.

...so out of your ar$e then! Why not use 0.5% instead of 50%? (seeing as we're making up figures)

Because I wanted to use 50%, is that ok with you?

Say for instance you are running a business and you provide a service this year for 100 people and bill them for it afterwards for €75 each. 50 people pay you for it and the other 50 dont meaning you are minus 3750 at the beginning of next year, when you have to provide the same service to another 100 people.

Do you bill them afterwards again knowing you may only get a 50% collection rate?

Do you ask them to pay you before you provide them with the service knowing this will get you a 100% collection rate?

Or do you bill them afterwards but put the price up to €150 on the assumption that 50 people will pay again and you will break even for the year?

donalg1

Boombastic wrote: »

Let me join the dots for you


HSE needs money so decides to charge the cancer patients. On the other hand they are handing out pay increases to already well paid staff...

So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

steddyeddy

Apart from the realities of individual finances how about the unnessecery stress this causes cancer patients? Even hearing this news would cause stress to those who have cancer.

Boombastic

donalg1 wrote: »

So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

Where did I say the staff should work for free?


This service should be provided for free, Why are we paying prsi? If the budget was distributed properly it could be provided for free

HondaSami

Boombastic wrote: »

Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?

Boombastic wrote: »

Just wondering if it is standard practice to have a break every hour

He is probably waiting on his next patient who could be delayed or cancelled. Life is not as simple as people like to think sometimes.

ShiverinEskimo

donalg1 wrote: »

So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

No. Read it again. That's not what he's saying at all.

He's saying there's a possibility that maybe the staff should get paid the SAME next year for doing the job they are doing this year in lieu of additional charges to patients. Not for free. Where did you read that he thinks they should do it for free?

steddyeddy

donalg1 wrote: »

So you are saying that this service should be provided for free then, and that the staff should work for free to provide this service?

Or how about money from revenue or other sources of government income being used to fund an important service like health. We are an society first and an economy second.

Lucas Castroman

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

You realise you typically get more than one chemo session right?

I'm fairly sure most probably do have it early on. But after 4 or 6 or 12 months of chemo and no work financial situations can and will change. 300 quid a month just to get the the door of a cancer ward for treatment is a lot. Maybe not to an obviously rich, sheltered, healthy person like you though.

Your last line is simply disgusting and spoken like someone who has likely never so much as seen a cancer patient let alone be one.

I beg your pardon...I didn't realize you were an Oncology expert. Your attitude is quite patronizing.
Your bleeding heart views are the main reason why the country is screwed. The state is crippled bending backwards to accomodate those who live their lives recklessly.
I am most certainly not rich but I know if I got cancer now I would happily contibute this money. As mentioned earlier, mortality rates are high so the total fee wouldn't accumulate substantially.
There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

Odysseus

Boombastic wrote: »

Having another break are you. Your last one only finished an hour ago. Is this indicative of work practices across the HSE?

No, I'm actually finished for the day. I could explain to how I manage that but I think it may be better for you if you think there is some type of scam involved.

So I'm on my own time for the rest of the day. Is that ok with you? With you like to fill in a work card for me?

So that is my position cleared up? What about you? Are you in work since you brought up the topic?

donalg1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Or how about money from revenue or other sources of government income being used to fund an important service like health. We are an society first and an economy second.

Believe me I am all for the HSE getting their house in order and learning to control a budget, and would wish that this treatment was free, but my point is I dont see why people are annoyed by patients being asked to pay upfront for a service. Are they saying they should only be billed afterwards? I mean really what is the difference bar the collection rates?

Boombastic

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

.......................
There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

Are you talking about the patients or the staff?

TheChizler

Boombastic wrote: »

HSE needs money so decides to charge the cancer patients.

Have I got it wrong but I was under the impression that this charge was always there, they've just changed when they ask for it. I've seen no evidence to suggest that people will be turned away, which seems to be the entire basis for the argument against it.

steddyeddy

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

I beg your pardon...I didn't realize you were an Oncology expert. Your attitude is quite patronizing.
Your bleeding heart views are the main reason why the country is screwed. The state is crippled bending backwards to accomodate those who live their lives recklessly.
I am most certainly not rich but I know if I got cancer now I would happily contibute this money. As mentioned earlier, mortality rates are high so the total fee wouldn't accumulate substantially.
There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

You realise Cancer can have many causes like a virus or genetics. It's not all fags booze and junk food.

Odysseus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Boombastic in fairness if you have a problem with the hse fair enough but I dont see the point in getting personal at an individual working there.

Ah sure, you expect that. I had a feeling that someone would actually post that when I was typing up that post. So then I thought fcuk knows what they will say when they hear I'm finished for the day.

But don't worry little dears, I put my hours in every week, so may that will help to stop you all from getting sick.

Odysseus

Boombastic wrote: »

Are you talking about the patients or the staff?

Why is that? Because if it is staff he has to be right? And if it is patients he is wrong?

QuiteInterestin

Think this had been totally blown out of proportion by the Indo. People pay upfront for medication they receive from a pharmacy without questioning it, why is it such a big difference to be expected to pay upfront for medication they receive from a hospital?

ShiverinEskimo

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

I beg your pardon...I didn't realize you were an Oncology expert. Your attitude is quite patronizing.
Your bleeding heart views are the main reason why the country is screwed. The state is crippled bending backwards to accomodate those who live their lives recklessly.
I am most certainly not rich but I know if I got cancer now I would happily contibute this money. As mentioned earlier, mortality rates are high so the total fee wouldn't accumulate substantially.
There is a sense of entitlement endemic in this society. People expect everything but should contribute nothing. This is not sustainable in the long run.
Why should I pay for anything? Why should I bother working? I am a human-being ... Sure the state can look after me

You have not one clue of what you speak about. I'm no onology expert but I do know a lot about cancer. Far more than you for sure it seems based on your naive, detached views you've spewed into the thread.

You would happily contribute the 75 euro because you have it. In 12 months when you have no job and no money I wonder will you still be 'happy' to contribute? Oh I'm sure you'll just be over the fúcking moon.

You're sitting here pontificating that cancer patients who can't afford it must have been living the champagne lifestyle having kids they can't afford and therefore they should suffer and die. I've never read such utter shíte in all my days on Boards.

Boombastic

Odysseus wrote: »

Ah sure, you expect that. I had a feeling that someone would actually post that when I was typing up that post. So then I thought fcuk knows what they will say when they hear I'm finished for the day.

But don't worry little dears, I put my hours in every week, so may that will help to stop you all from getting sick.

Fair enough, once you do you weekly hours. I was just wondering about productivity in the hse, if breaks could be taken every hour. BTW nice way to refer to the people you are caring for

Odysseus wrote: »

Why is that? Because if it is staff he has to be right? And if it is patients he is wrong?

Well he said 'expect everything and contribute nothing'. People who pay taxes do contribute, just because it is not always spent properly doesn't mean people have contributed nothing

Gingernuts31

crusher000 wrote: »

So those that can pay will be saved and those that have no money will be turned away to die ?

Health Service is the name, don't expect it for free but peoples health should take priority over all economic debt etc.

If you are working and have income below a certain threshold you have a medical card. If you have no income and your entire family is on social you will have a medical card. If your earning too much to get a medical card surely the old robbing peter to pay paul applies? If it's a difference between paying for chemo or paying your half yearly bins which has priorty? If the HSE doesn't get money and is chasing people for it thousands will suffer due to cutbacks because the HSE can't get money from patients. I know it may seem unfair but this is no different than going a private professional who requires payment upfront and you'd gladly pay him but you think it's unfair for a government body to do it?

donalg1

QuiteInterestin wrote: »

Think this had been totally blown out of proportion by the Indo. People pay upfront for medication they receive from a pharmacy without questioning it, why is it such a big difference to be expected to pay upfront for medication they receive from a hospital?

Because staff in hospitals may be getting an increment, whereas the ones in the pharmacy may not get a raise apparently, I think!!!:rolleyes:

Oh and its the Indo, so it was always going to be blown out of proportion its what they do.

Odysseus

Boombastic wrote: »

Fair enough, once you do you weekly hours. I was just wondering about productivity in the hse, if breaks could be taken every hour. BTW nice way to refer to the people you are caring for





Well he said 'expect everything and contribute nothing'. People who pay taxes do contribute, just because it is not always spent properly doesn't mean people have contributed nothing

I really doubt, actually I'm pretty sure none of my patients are posting here on this thread, they are the people I "care" for, as you said.


Edit: I am so happy that you don't mind once I cover all my hours, at least I will be able to sleep tonight.

spiritcrusher

I'm pretty sure this story was reported incorrectly. There was a woman from the Irish Cancer Association on the radio this morning explaining that they offer a financial aid service to those who can't afford the €75, but she also mentioned the HSE don't actually demand the money up front but they make it clear to you that you will be billed and you will have to pay it. There have been letters from debt collection agencies sent to patients after they've gotten the treatment and haven't paid the bills. That was the main point of the story.

The charge also isn't a new charge, it's always been there but had been waived by hospitals in the past. Obviously they can't afford to do that any more. Bit of a storm in a teacup when you consider that you won't be denied treatment for not having the money on you, although I'm sure letters from debt collectors aren't exactly helpful to someone recovering from chemo.

TheChizler

Proposition:|Bill people before treatment.|Bill people after treatment.
Payment Rate:|Probably high(er).|Probably low(er).
Patient Stress Incurred:|Stress to come up with money before OR stress to come up with money after OR stress when faced with debt collectors after if failure to pay. Third option increases likelyhood of lower stress levels as patient has more options.|Stress to come up with money after OR stress when faced with debt collectors after if failure to pay. Increases likelyhood of higher stress levels as patient is more restricted in options.
Individual patient expenditure:|€75|€75
Patient lives in the sticks, considerations?:|Nothing specific to billing difference.|Nothing specific to billing difference.
Staff get annual increments:|Nothing specific to billing difference.|Nothing specific to billing difference.
Cancer patients have lots of extra costs:|Nothing specific to billing difference.|Nothing specific to billing difference.
Should people pay for treatment:?|Nothing specific to billing difference.|Nothing specific to billing difference.

woodoo

Ghandee wrote: »

To quote some of the govt fan boys, of which there are many on this site.

"you know about the deficit right?"

Ooh, and "you realise the govt are borrowing this cash to fund theses services?"


When things got tight in my job a few years ago, everyone was subject to an 18% cut in salary, overtime was banned, and expenses were cut to the absolute bare minimum.

I protested, my end of the business involves sales, i unsuccessfully argued that my sales figures were increasing, even through the recession, but I was told 'everybody is pissing in the one pot'.

Some in our over protected sector need to wake up to the fact that what used to be there, isn't there any longer.

Pay can be cut for all in the PS and that would be fair. Cutting increments for those still on the agreed scale is unfair.

woodoo

Boombastic wrote: »

You'll attract the 'we took a 15% pay cut crowd' (includes the UPC), while they conveniently forget with the other hand the are receiving increments.................but then you probably wouldn't understand the pay structures:D

You quite clearly don't.

mitosis

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

They are 'insisting' on up-front payments.

Not sure how you've ever insisted on something but generally it involves the threat of not receiving what it is you've been asked to pay for.

Otherwise why the change? If it's going to be status quo and no one will be denied treatment and everyone who can't pay it then will be able to pay later then what's this all about?

Either it's an empty threat and the HSE are clowns, or it's a scheme designed to heap even more pressure on cancer patients and the HSE are clowns. I'll let you decide.

Or it could just be that it will save some money and the HSE are showing some economic management. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, no-one is being denied treatment through inability/unwillingness to pay.

woodoo

Boombastic wrote: »

Fair enough, once you do you weekly hours.

You would nearly think he had to answer to you

laoch na mona

pharmoeconomics = money grabbing of the worst kind

trying to make money of terminally ill people disgusting



(don't think hse does that the global system creates it)

bleg

laoch na mona wrote: »

pharmoeconomics = money grabbing of the worst kind

Of course, everybody should get everything they ever need, ever healthcare wise regardless of cost.

So you don't want higher taxes, but want higher spending on medical care from the magic money tree that makes up the difference in the balance of public spending.

Mayor Quimby: Are these morons getting dumber or just louder?
Quimby's Aide: Dumber, sir.

Odysseus

woodoo wrote: »

You would nearly think he had to answer to you

Sadly enough that seems common here, some seem to think public servant actually equals personal servant!!

Boombastic

Odysseus wrote: »

Sadly enough that seems common here, some seem to think public servant actually equals personal servant!!

Whats even sadder is that some think that taxpayers money is their own personal purse to which they are entitled too...maybe the sick children should hand their communion money straight over to the public sector to let them have their parties, sure their going to die anyway

Scanlas The 2nd

laoch na mona wrote: »

pharmoeconomics = money grabbing of the worst kind

trying to make money of terminally ill people disgusting



(don't think hse does that the global system creates it)

It's a harsh reality that resources are limited, it would be great if everything we needed grew on trees. But they don't so we have to try mange our resources as best we can and that means not giving away scarce valuable goods for free. Otherwise increasing numbers would needlessly die. That 75 charge could be the difference between many lives, so it's important we try to have it paid.

Mucco

laoch na mona wrote: »

pharmoeconomics = money grabbing of the worst kind

trying to make money of terminally ill people disgusting

(don't think hse does that the global system creates it)

What are you willing to give up in order to have a completely free health system?

Odysseus

Boombastic wrote: »

Whats even sadder is that some think that taxpayers money is their own personal purse to which they are entitled too...maybe the sick children should hand their communion money straight over to the public sector to let them have their parties, sure their going to die anyway

This is the cancer thread, the one about the party is a different one. Thankfully though we don't have to get every expense passed by someone who feels their opinion is the correct one, merely because they pay taxes.

Since we are on about parties I am glad a Gov Dept has looked after pensioners for once. What is it with AH and this lets get the pensioners recently.

petersburg2002

My father underwent gruelling chemo treatment as a medical card patient. He got the best of care and he's still alive three years later. Money would have been the last thing on our minds. And we would have gladly paid €7500, not to mention €75. We just wanted him to pull through. Thankfully he did.

Mucco

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

You would happily contribute the 75 euro because you have it. In 12 months when you have no job and no money I wonder will you still be 'happy' to contribute? Oh I'm sure you'll just be over the fúcking moon.

You're sitting here pontificating that cancer patients who can't afford it must have been living the champagne lifestyle having kids they can't afford and therefore they should suffer and die. I've never read such utter shíte in all my days on Boards.

Health expenditure is emotive stuff.
If you can't afford €75, you're probably entitled to a medical card. 85% of Ireland's pharma bill is paid from the public purse.

Boombastic

Odysseus wrote: »

This is the cancer thread, the one about the party is a different one. Thankfully though we don't have to get every expense passed by someone who feels their opinion is the correct one, merely because they pay taxes.

Since we are on about parties I am glad a Gov Dept has looked after pensioners for once. What is it with AH and this lets get the pensioners recently.

Funny they can afford motivational coaches for useless managers

Odysseus

petersburg2002 wrote: »

My father underwent gruelling chemo treatment as a medical card patient. He got the best of care and he's still alive three years later. Money would have been the last thing on our minds. And we would have gladly paid €7500, not to mention €75. We just wanted him to pull through. Thankfully he did.

I sure you would most families would, provoided they have it of course. That is the big question, what happens if you don't have it?

I would very much doubt that anyone patient would be denied treatment; others think different, but I really doubt it, this is not the dark ages.

Geuze

Some people have linked PRSI with healthcare spending.

Please note that healthcare in Irl is financed by taxes, not PRSI.

The one small exception is some limited optical and dental care, which is paid for by the Social Insurance Fund.

Geuze

Although everybody living in Irl is entitled to (more or less) free hosp care, there are 4 basic fees for healthcare in Irl:

(1) GP fees, free for 40% of pop with med card, otherwise you pay
(2) A&E fee = 100, unless you have a GP referral letter or a med card
(3) Hosp charge of 75 per day, up to 750 max pa
(4) Drugs up to 132, now 144 pm, unless you have a med card

Boskowski

I imagine they do because people simply don't pay up?

An increasing number of people simply refuse to pay for anything they don't have to pay upfront for these days unless there is a very real threat of refusal of service.

I know cancer is a very sensitive subject - my mom died from it btw - but if its not cancer its something else people would get up in arms over if HSE refused treatment without pay.
Where do you draw the line? Are we going to give free healthcare simply to everyone on the grounds of them refusing to pay and the idea of 'how could you refuse treatment to sick people'?

The reality is people simply won't pay for anything then.

storker

Boombastic wrote: »

Sure they've increments to pay, can be wasting money on those scummy sick people

You broke the code. What to do about the HSE spending overrun while the gravy train rolls on? Yeah, let's get the cancer patients...look at 'em, lording it over the rest of us with their fancy tumors...etc...

Stork

storker

Mucco wrote: »

What are you willing to give up in order to have a completely free health system?

My health insurance.

Oh wait, it would need to be free and efficient though.

Stork

Cee-Jay-Cee

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

It would be your only worry if you didn't have €75.

If someone didn't have €75 then they wouldn't be denied the treatment as they more than likely have a medical card and even if they didn't have a card they still wouldn't be denied the treatment.

Death and Taxes

Mucco wrote: »

Health expenditure is emotive stuff.
If you can't afford €75, you're probably entitled to a medical card. 85% of Ireland's pharma bill is paid from the public purse.

ireland has the highest levels of personal debt in the OECD, mainly down to mortgage debt, if you already cant afford your basic bills, where do you find €75 a pop for chemo while off sick?

Boombastic

CJC999 wrote: »

If someone didn't have €75 then they wouldn't be denied the treatment as they more than likely have a medical card and even if they didn't have a card they still wouldn't be denied the treatment.

Just chased by debt collectors when they leave the hospital