Zenit St Petersberg supporters group lays down terms for transfers

mike65

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/17/zenit-st-petersburg-fan-group

The largest fan group of Russian champions Zenit St Petersburg has demanded the club refrain from buying black and gay players.

"We're not racists but we see the absence of black players at Zenit as an important tradition," Zenit fan club Landscrona said in a letter, called the "Selection 12 manifesto", posted on its website on Monday.

"It would allow Zenit to maintain the national identity of the club, which is the symbol of St Petersburg."

Zenit have been the only top club in Russia to have never signed an African player while the northern city of St Petersburg is known to have a strong right-wing nationalist influence.

:eek: Well at least they are not being subtle about it.

The_Kew_Tour

While I think its poor taste, I would not mess with those lads.

A very tough city. If they say jump I would jump.

pickarooney

Why only black and gay players? Should they not insist on only local players or at least only Russian players if they're going to try and sell "we're not racists"?

Fizman

Let them off.

If that's what they want, they'll achieve nothing in the long run. It's what groups like that deserve.

Makes you wonder what Witsel was even thinking going there in the first place though. I mean, I can't imagine that as a kid he had a burning ambition to one day live in St. Petersburg/play for the great Zenit. Obviously it was for the ridiculous bucks involved, but jasus he could have a better standard of living anywhere else by the sounds of it.

pickarooney

Fizman wrote: »

Let them off.

If that's what they want, they'll achieve nothing in the long run. It's what groups like that deserve.

Makes you wonder what Witsel was even thinking going there in the first place though. I mean, I can't imagine that as a kid he had a burning ambition to one day live in St. Petersburg/play for the great Zenit. Obviously it was for the ridiculous bucks involved, but jasus he could have a better standard of living anywhere else by the sounds of it.

His agent probably told him it was a great place for right wingers.

Fizman

pickarooney wrote: »

His agent probably told him it was a great place for right wingers.

wandatowell

^^^ quality

GavRedKing

What have they got against poor Justin Fashanu?

In all seriousness though any player going there that falls into either divide would want to be mad, or love money.

Turtyturd

pickarooney wrote: »

His agent probably told him it was a great place for right wingers.

Deserves a spot in the posts of the year thread.:D

TaosHum

pickarooney wrote: »

Why only black and gay players? Should they not insist on only local players or at least only Russian players if they're going to try and sell "we're not racists"?

That's the key point.

At least with a club like Bilbao who have historically only signed Basque's, I can understand their stance.

But to single out only gay's and black's is a racist stance IMO.

LuckyLloyd

Fizman wrote: »

Let them off.

If that's what they want, they'll achieve nothing in the long run. It's what groups like that deserve.

Makes you wonder what Witsel was even thinking going there in the first place though. I mean, I can't imagine that as a kid he had a burning ambition to one day live in St. Petersburg/play for the great Zenit. Obviously it was for the ridiculous bucks involved, but jasus he could have a better standard of living anywhere else by the sounds of it.

Hmm, St. Petersburg has a huge amount of history and culture, and is very beautiful in parts. Yeah it's cold obviously, but I could see you having a very high standard of living if you had means tbh.

pickarooney wrote: »

His agent probably told him it was a great place for right wingers.

Nice, that's nice.

intellectual dosser

Wasn't Luis Nani linked with them in the summer? I was lead to believe they couldn't agree terms.

LiamoSail

No different really to the policies rangers employed through out most of their history

AdamD

But they're not racist

token101

They should be made play behind closed doors in Europe. Why should any player have to put up with that ****? And this place is going to have the World Cup? ****ing hell.

Mikeyt086

"We're not racists but we see the absence of black players at Zenit as an important tradition,"

The_Kew_Tour

Fair play to FIFA for giving them the World Cup eh.:rolleyes:

intellectual dosser

token101 wrote: »

They should be made play behind closed doors in Europe. Why should any player have to put up with that ****? And this place is going to have the World Cup? ****ing hell.

Its a fan group, not the club itself who have made these remarks.

The reference to the world cup is valid though.

TaosHum

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fair play to FIFA for giving them the World Cup eh.:rolleyes:

TBF, is it any different to UEFA giving the Euro's to Ukraine?

The_Kew_Tour

TaosHum wrote: »

TBF, is it any different to UEFA giving the Euro's to Ukraine?

Never said it wasn't.

Money and brown envelopes talk I guess

MUSEIST

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fair play to FIFA for giving them the World Cup eh.:rolleyes:

Is that not a bit racist?:(. Why should russia be punished for the views of a minority, very few russians have this view and it's a bit prejudiced towards a race of people to suggest otherwise.

The_Kew_Tour

MUSEIST wrote: »

Is that not a bit racist?:(. Why should russia be punished for the views of a minority, very few russians have this view and it's a bit prejudiced towards a race of people to suggest otherwise.

If ever a post was freaking OTT this is it.:rolleyes:

I suppose Serbia should not have got a fine or anything for there antics lately should they cause its only minority?

LuckyLloyd

Russia clearly has the finances, infrastructure and security forces to host the World Cup. Some people would be happy for major football tournaments to alternate between England and Germany.

I'll predict that anyone who travels to the World Cup in Russia, stays on the beaten track and follows every travel advisory to the letter will be very safe. If you fancy a big adventurous night out in random parts of Moscow, etc then your liable to get ****ed but that isn't on FIFA imo.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Russia clearly has the finances, infrastructure and security forces to host the World Cup. Some people would be happy for major football tournaments to alternate between England and Germany.

I'll predict that anyone who travels to the World Cup in Russia, stays on the beaten track and follows every travel advisory to the letter will be very safe. If you fancy a big adventurous night out in random parts of Moscow, etc then your liable to get ****ed but that isn't on FIFA imo.

Course it is, people shouldn't have to be nervous about where they go when they travel to watch football.

Rekop dog

Fizman wrote: »

Let them off.

If that's what they want, they'll achieve nothing in the long run. It's what groups like that deserve.

Makes you wonder what Witsel was even thinking going there in the first place though. I mean, I can't imagine that as a kid he had a burning ambition to one day live in St. Petersburg/play for the great Zenit. Obviously it was for the ridiculous bucks involved, but jasus he could have a better standard of living anywhere else by the sounds of it.

This is nearly as small minded as the supporters group's opinions. Don't be so Zenitphobic.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

Course it is, people shouldn't have to be nervous about where they go when they travel to watch football.

So only first world, democratic countries should be allowed participate in or host inter - continental or international football competitions?

"We're not racists but..

It started well anyway

Neil3030

Zenit should either publicly renounce these remarks or be banned from European competitions, imo.

niallo27

Is there any openly gay footballers out there for them not to sign, English football has no openly gay footballers in the top 4 divisions. We should look at the football we follow and wonder why this is before we judge the Russians ourselfs.

Neil3030

niallo27 wrote: »

Is there any openly gay footballers out there for them not to sign, English football has no openly gay footballers in the top 4 divisions. We should look at the football we follow and wonder why this is before we judge as well as judging the Russians ourselfs.

FYP

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So only first world, democratic countries should be allowed participate in or host inter - continental or international football competitions?

Only democratic countries who aren't renowned for racist, homophobic or any human rights abuses, should be allowed yes. I can't grasp how that's such an unacceptable concept for you.

niallo27

Neil3030 wrote: »

FYP

I'm not condoning these lads, they are completely bonkers in what they are saying.

Neil3030

niallo27 wrote: »

I'm not condoning these lads, they are completely bonkers in what they are saying.

I know you weren't and I apologise if I gave that impression. I'm just saying it's not an either/or situation, or one which has an order of severity. The glaring absence of gay footballers reflects a latent but very real culture of homophobia within the game. While the situation of bigotry in Russia is overt and apparently more diffusely targeted. Both are enormous problems worthy of immediate intervention, and not necessarily one before or after the other.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

Only democratic countries who aren't renowned for racist, homophobic or any human rights abuses, should be allowed yes. I can't grasp how that's such an unacceptable concept for you.

Give us a list that would conform to your standards

CSF

CSF wrote: »

Only democratic countries who aren't renowned for racist, homophobic or any human rights abuses, should be allowed yes. I can't grasp how that's such an unacceptable concept for you.

What, like England?...

Lennonist

The fans statement says this is the policy at the club and they want it maintained. UEFA should ban them from Euro competitions if they persist with a racist policy.

Neil3030

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give us a list that would conform to your standards

I would take this list as a decent guide; it defines "full democracies" on the back of various scores in civil and political liberties. Russia does not meet the criteria and is listed as a "hybrid regime".

Milkers

MUSEIST wrote: »

Is that not a bit racist?:(. Why should russia be punished for the views of a minority, very few russians have this view and it's a bit prejudiced towards a race of people to suggest otherwise.

Um, Russian is not a race.

LuckyLloyd

Neil3030 wrote: »

I would take this list as a decent guide; it defines "full democracies" on the back of various scores in civil and political liberties. Russia does not meet the criteria and is listed as a "hybrid regime".

So FIFA must actively use their organisation to further Democracy? Hmm

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give us a list that would conform to your standards

No. I'm not getting into the political situation of every ****in major country, but there are some, like Russia and Qatar, that just scream out as obvious nos.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

No. I'm not getting into the political situation of every ****in major country, but there are some, like Russia and Qatar, that just scream out as obvious nos.

South Africa and Brazil? Don't think a pasty Irish lad would be well advised to wander wherever in either.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

South Africa and Brazil? Don't think a pasty Irish lad would be well advised to wander wherever in either.

I'm actually genuinely interested (and a little worried) to see how the World Cup in Brazil gos. Being poor and having rough dangerous areas alone (although obviously none of these should be the host cities) shouldn't preclude a country from hosting such an event.

Having a culture of racism and homophobia should. Should the African teams really have to put up with spending every game being subjected to racist taunts?

Madworld

niallo27 wrote: »

Is there any openly gay footballers out there for them not to sign, English football has no openly gay footballers in the top 4 divisions. We should look at the football we follow and wonder why this is before we judge the Russians ourselfs.

We eh? :cool:

Aidric

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

A very tough city.

A very beautiful city.

keith16

CSF wrote: »

Course it is, people shouldn't have to be nervous about where they go when they travel to watch football.

Well it would be a perfect world if we could travel anywhere without being nervous, be it for football or other reasons.

There are great places in countries that have a sh1tty regime, or vocal minorities such as Russia. St. Petersburg is a fantastic city, was I nervous when I went there? Absolutely but I took precautions and ultimately enjoyed myself.

If you are travelling anywhere, there a risks and FIFA should not get the blame if something untoward happens. Why should football and FIFA grant us some kind of immunity from these risks? They shouldn't. To say that they should speaks of a massive sense of entitlement IMO.

As much as I dislike FIFA / UEFA, they are in a no win situation. Keep giving the tournaments to the likes of France, Sweden and the US and they would also be criticised.

CSF

keith16 wrote: »

Well it would be a perfect world if we could travel anywhere without being nervous, be it for football or other reasons.

There are great places in countries that have a sh1tty regime, or vocal minorities such as Russia. St. Petersburg is a fantastic city, was I nervous when I went there? Absolutely but I took precautions and ultimately enjoyed myself.

If you are travelling anywhere, there a risks and FIFA should not get the blame if something untoward happens. Why should football and FIFA grant us some kind of immunity from these risks? They shouldn't. To say that they should speaks of a massive sense of entitlement IMO.

As much as I dislike FIFA / UEFA, they are in a no win situation. Keep giving the tournaments to the likes of France, Sweden and the US and they would also be criticised.

Without meaning to be overly nosy, but are you black or openly homosexual?

keith16

CSF wrote: »

Without meaning to be overly nosy, but are you black or openly homosexual?

I'm a closet black but outrageously homosexual :pac:

Ah no, neither. But I see what you are getting at. Life some places is undoubtedly difficult for either of those groups.

But what a world cup does is shine a very large international spotlight on places like this and could very well play a role in changing attitudes.

Let's take Qatar for example. Already plenty of controversy surrounding it's stance on homosexuality. They are desperate for a progressive image on the international stage. It wouldn't surprise me if in 2022 as the tournament draws closer, if the issue is still raging on, you could see a couple of high profile footballers "coming out". This would put huge pressure on Qatar and may act as a catalyst to change attitudes and ultimately be a driver in Qatar becoming a more tolerant society.

Again, you can guarantee in Russia, the Police will be doing everything they have to in order to crackdown on the skinheads and protect the fans. Again, could very well act as a force for changes.

Crann na Beatha

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Crann na Beatha

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mike65

I'm sure they have, and hopefully they'll sign a black player in January to make the point!

CSF

keith16 wrote: »

I'm a closet black but outrageously homosexual :pac:

Ah no, neither. But I see what you are getting at. Life some places is undoubtedly difficult for either of those groups.

But what a world cup does is shine a very large international spotlight on places like this and could very well play a role in changing attitudes.

Let's take Qatar for example. Already plenty of controversy surrounding it's stance on homosexuality. They are desperate for a progressive image on the international stage. It wouldn't surprise me if in 2022 as the tournament draws closer, if the issue is still raging on, you could see a couple of high profile footballers "coming out". This would put huge pressure on Qatar and may act as a catalyst to change attitudes and ultimately be a driver in Qatar becoming a more tolerant society.

Again, you can guarantee in Russia, the Police will be doing everything they have to in order to crackdown on the skinheads and protect the fans. Again, could very well act as a force for changes.

If you're right, great. But I don't see a World Cup changing the way these places are.