Zenit St Petersberg supporters group lays down terms for transfers

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

I'm sure they have, and hopefully they'll sign a black player in January to make the point!

Black and gay.

Boards.rs will go into meltdown.

if there is such a thing

ArmaniJeanss

Wow, the 'how dare FIFA award it to them, we are all going to get stabbed and raped' is starting 5 years in advance. Even South Africa only had about 2 years of a run-in, and Poland/Ukraine only really got going in the 6 weeks beforehand after the Panorama expose. Impressive.

I also remember all those threads in the run-up to the Chelsea/MUFC final in Moscow about how it would be a miracle if the fans of those clubs weren't slaughtered by the gangs of heavily armed neo Nazis who'd been organising especially for that game.

Neil3030

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So FIFA must actively use their organisation to further Democracy? Hmm

This response is just obtuse. You asked for a franework for selecting countries suitable to host the finals, I gave you one.

The key point here is that Fifa are paying lip service to tackling bigotry in the game with one hand, while with the other it rewards two countries with the hosting of its grandest stage, both of which are marred with overt prejudice and in some cases legislated human rights violations. If this doesn't bother you, that's your business. But it's lazy and insufficient to say that there's no way to tease apart what countries have a political and moral climate worthy of hosting the world cup.

The_Kew_Tour

greendom wrote: »

Who would want to sign for them knowing the club has a racist and homophobic agenda.

Just John Terry and Luis Suarez.

upandcumming

rarnes1 wrote: »

Black and gay.

Boards.ru will go into meltdown.

if there is such a thing

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Reekwind

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So FIFA must actively use their organisation to further Democracy? Hmm

Well, yes. I'm fairly sure that nobody wants a repeat of Argentina '78, when dissidents and trade unionists were being thrown out of planes over the Atlantic while the world was watching football. Or worse. Start claiming that sport should be neutral when it comes to politics and you end up with this:

token101

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Its a fan group, not the club itself who have made these remarks.

The largest fans group though, so it's the fans who are the problem. So instead pf banning the club, ban the fans from the grounds.

greendom

Phoenix wrote: »

Hey Greendom are you going to substantiate your claim with proof that Zenit FC the club has an official stance advocating such behavior?links etc please

You'll notice I deleted the post after I read the club statement. In any case I didn't say they had an official stance, i said if they did. Unfortunately the Kew Tour only quoted part of my now deleted post..

token101

Christopher Samba was on BBC five live and pretty much implied that Zenit fans were scum, said they were from a different century and said that everyone knew that Zenit supporters were racist. Might be true, but he's a brave man for saying it!

eagle eye

CSF wrote: »

Course it is, people shouldn't have to be nervous about where they go when they travel to watch football.

The World Cup has been held in Mexico and South Africa and its in Brazil next Try doing your own thing in any of those countries and see how you get on.

pickarooney

Brazil is one of the most accommodating countries in the world to alternative lifestyles. Why should fans be afraid to go there?

Reekwind

Here's a strange article from Jonathan Wilson on the Guardian. It seems to first frame the discussion in terms of localism (which is perfectly acceptable in football) before going on to highlight some of the blatantly and inexcusably racist parts of the statement

Winston Payne

Reekwind wrote: »

Here's a strange article from Jonathan Wilson on the Guardian. It seems to first frame the discussion in terms of localism (which is perfectly acceptable in football) before going on to highlight some of the blatantly and inexcusably racist parts of the statement

It isn't strange at all. Wilson clearly highlights the problems inherent in the statements but the wider point is true. These are the first tentative steps toward progress, and the desire for local representation and to kick out against the ills of the modern game is one that would find support with this very board. The issues of prejudice in the statement aren't inherent to the previous desires. They are current problems of Zenit. Hopefully they won't be problems in the future.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

"We're not racists but...

...also slightly remind me of this, haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ORCnvGnaAM

Reekwind

Winston Payne wrote: »

These are the first tentative steps toward progress, and the desire for local representation and to kick out against the ills of the modern game is one that would find support with this very board

And these are approached from a categorically racist perspective. I'm sorry but, whatever about the wider conclusions drawn, the Western reports that characterised this 'manifesto' as racist are undeniably correct. You can see this from the references to "brother Slavs", the gradated scale of acceptableness (how is a Spanish player more culturally Russian than an Algerian? And why stop at Europe?), the old racist lie about African players in cold climates*, national stereotypes, the explicit rejection of black (not African or Brazilian but black) players and so on

(Not to mention the language itself: "With Belarus and Ukraine, we are bound by a centuries-old history … the proximity of mindsets, attitudes and behaviours, both on the football field and beyond. We are also close in spirit to the Scandinavians, with the thirst for combat and self-sacrifice in their blood" What? Africans don't have 'self-sacrifice in their blood'? Why not?)

Now all this is evidence that Wilson himself provides. And it clashes badly with his argument that this manifesto is not about racism but "local pride". Unfortunately the reality is that racists are, almost by definition, big fans of "local pride". It's practically a prerequisite for hating other peoples. This does not mean of course that expressions of 'local pride' are inherently racist (in that my thumb is a finger but not all fingers are thumbs) but we have to be aware of the line

There's nothing wrong with objecting to the money making machine that modern football has become but arguing against this from a racist perspective is 100% wrong. Just because the racists are for the same thing as you are doesn't mean that their logic or means (ie how they got there) are also correct. The last thing you want to do is to try to justify their logic because their conclusions bear a resemblance to yours

And I think Wilson's article (with its fudging and contradictions) is an illustration of that struggle

*An argument that Wilson facilely counters with the 'Messi in Stoke' line; ignoring that this has never been about some supposed vulnerability of Argentinians to cold weather