Waterford to New Ross to be revived

deegs2

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Are they the same group as the New Ross fruit loops on Bookface?

Just like all of the Fruit loopers on this page

corktina

hey man, two wrongs don't make a right, dint ya ma tell you? Just fill us in on what progress you made...I assume as you haven't said so that the line clearing aint your work?

(sorry, this gangster jive is VERY tiring...)

deegs2

Kilkenny leader partnership have this ball rolling and they want a walk way...don't no what the other heritage crowd are up to as they have no funds or councils backing them..

purplepanda

Various heritage groups not cooperating , others want a commuter service, whilst the politicians pay lip service & get a few local newspaper headlines.

Isn't it about time that any serious interested parties got together & focused their efforts, for this & other rail lines. You won't achieve anything with various cliques.

How about combined heritage operations & commuter services, for any proposed future rail operation, combining together on such a project would be cheaper from a fundraising viewpoint, & mean less overall operational costs due to combined revenues.

A combined rail operation would be likely to obtain EU, government & even private funding if any was available in the future.

We are talking tens of millions in costs to rebuild the New Ross railway & to raise that amount it would have to be a serious proposal which generates enough revenue. A heritage line on it's own is not viable IMO

dowlingm

I'd say the only traffic that would bring in enough shekels to reopen as a railway would be some sort of serious bulk freight flow flow in, out or preferably one or more both ways from New Ross Port (west bank). If having done that there were paths available to squeeze services of some sort through so be it but if it wouldn't work from South Wexford I don't see it working from New Ross. Build the greenway already.

purplepanda

Maybe I should have also added freight to the mix, seems to me all the lines in danger of closing don't have any freight traffic at present.

South Wexford had the Beet season until a few years back, but then closed.

I'm assuming all the lines currently threatened with closures are all freight free? Even Limerick Junction - Waterford. What about Limerick - Nenagh-Ballybrophy?

Even some UK heritage operators are considering adding commuter services to link up with the national rail network, none has managed to introduce any so far but such services would make sense from a financial viewpoint if passenger demand was there. Perhaps with some financial help from government / EU funds if available in future

Nothing worse than a very expensive underused white elephant :pac:

Multiple sources of income are needed to make any serious project work . Especially when the start up costs are so high.

corktina

not quite none,

the North Yorks Moors Rly operate off their line onwards on Network Rail and The Swanage Railway have secured the go ahead for regular trains operating onto their line shortly

purplepanda

Good to know that some heritage railways are making full use of their assets anyway.

Plus a few Santa & Thomas the Tank engine specials always draws in the paying public.

allthedoyles

New Ross towards Waterford refurbished railway track

corktina

it's not refurbished, it's just been cleared. I doubt it would be safe to use without re-sleepering and ballasting.

It would make the good basis for a volunteer led (ie cheap)project but where will the volunteers come from?

Judgement Day

corktina

probably JD! It seems to me there are very few Rail Enthusiasts in Ireland per capita compared to the UK where every second person seems to be a puffer nutter

not surprising as we don't care too much about the past...have a looka t the History and Heritage forum, it's mostly people ahving a go at the "bloody english" and very little to do with H&H

Richard Logue

I'm not sure that people who post on forums are necessarily reflective of the wider population. Take politics.ie - if you were to read that you'd believe Irelands next government will be a coalition of Sinn Fein and the 32 County Sovereignty Movement and Declan Ganley to boot!

corktina

no but it's a shame not to have more H&H posts though.

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

it's not refurbished, it's just been cleared. I doubt it would be safe to use without re-sleepering and ballasting.

It would make the good basis for a volunteer led (ie cheap)project but where will the volunteers come from?

If those photos (And the many others I've seen on Flickr etc) are anything to go by, all that has gone on has been hedge cutting and vegetation clearing. No track work can be seen aside from the track metal itself and to the best of my knowledge, none has been done nor has any been planned.

There is absolutely no way that the Railway Safety Commission would pass out a line that has not been laid or maintained without professional track laying staff having worked at, planned or supervised the project. While the actual track laying itself is not hard, the potential of risk from a engineering mistake, miscalculations, or failure from elementary mistakes are far too high to allow untrained people to carry out planing or design work.

purplepanda

Wouldn't the tracks have to be all taken up, new ballast & aggregate filled in, drainage redone, ground levelled, the sleepers & rails checked for damage to see even if they could be reused if at all.

I'm probably missing half the work that would need to be done!!

Plus most of the sleepers might well be rotten & better off replaced with concrete versions anyway, maybe reuse some of the rails at best.

A very expensive undertaking, made even worse by complete lack of maintenance :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Tracks might be OK at low speeds. Them trees fairly grow fast in Kilkenny.

http://goo.gl/maps/eCzdP

Very hard to make the line out on these high res 2011 Aerial Photos too.

http://binged.it/11FU1BD

I see two points here below where the track may be severed completely or may be covered in gravel.

http://binged.it/ZglgxG

gobnaitolunacy

All the tracks are good for now is running the bush cutting machine along, but even that has rubber wheel back up for the missing/unstable bits.
Sleepers are well rotten in many places by now, not even good for a garden centre but now of course we have the Euro Police to protect us from the perils of cresoted sleepers that must be nearing the half-century mark.

corktina

it's probably the damge done to the drains by all that undergrowth that is the main problem.

deegs2

A small be of footage from us walking the track near slieverue to the rhu glenn

http://youtu.be/7gtk07tIsdQ

Sponge Bob

deegs2 wrote: »

A small be of footage from us walking the track near slieverue to the rhu glenn

http://youtu.be/7gtk07tIsdQ

Does someone always walk ahead with a shotgun ??? Thankfully the locals seem utteerly chillaxed.

deegs2

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Does someone always walk ahead with a shotgun ??? Thankfully the locals seem utteerly chillaxed.

We were out shooting but kept bumping into people at every turn..

gobnaitolunacy

deegs2 wrote: »

A small be of footage from us walking the track near slieverue to the rhu glenn

http://youtu.be/7gtk07tIsdQ[/QUOTE]

Must be a rough part of the country that you need the double barrel.

deegs2

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

deegs2 wrote: »

A small be of footage from us walking the track near slieverue to the rhu glenn

http://youtu.be/7gtk07tIsdQ[/QUOTE]

Must be a rough part of the country that you need the double barrel.

We were looking for anorak wearing, bobble bobbing train spotters....very rare in them there parts....

Losty Dublin

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

http://youtu.be/7gtk07tIsdQ[/QUOTE]

Must be a rough part of the country that you need the double barrel.

I was expecting a switcher hauling a few flats of hayricks and a barytes wagon full of beagles and gun toting red necks to run them over.

deegs2

http://youtu.be/cvXOaGwnn-0 Too many people on the line

davidlacey

has the line to be put up for tender?

corktina

for what?

davidlacey

For a)private interest or b)greenway
obviously IE have no interest in it, would this not be a requirement before lifting...

Con Logue

davidlacey wrote: »

For a)private interest or b)greenway
obviously IE have no interest in it, would this not be a requirement before lifting...

How about a nice one-two of Eddie Stobart taking over rail frieght and Deutsche Bahn passenger services across the whole network? That would give all the vested interests that need it a good kick up the transom.

corktina

I think Eddie is far too good a businessman for that....

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Losty Dublin

davidlacey wrote: »

For a)private interest or b)greenway
obviously IE have no interest in it, would this not be a requirement before lifting...

The line has not been legally abandoned or has an exemption order been applied to it under the 1950 Transport Act. Until either action has taken place CIE (the legal owner of the land) won't be selling the trackway.

If they did choose absolve themselves of the route, the legal requirement for formal disposal obliges CIE to offer the land to adjacent landowners first, local authority second, public auction third and lastly private treaty. If this procedure was to be followed, it would making the planning of any walkway on a closed line virtually impossible as the chances of local landowners letting it go would be next to nil.

Besides all of this, can you imagine how popular a local TD or sitting minister would be if the slim hope of the line reopening was taken away?

davidlacey

why bother clearing the line then?

gobnaitolunacy

davidlacey wrote: »

why bother clearing the line then?

Read post 35 and link to tender site, click on 'full notice text' on site.


Kilkenny LEADER Partnership (KLP) have been given
permission by CIE to carry out the necessary technical
studies required to test the feasibility of developing one of a
number of tourism projects on the disused 20 kilometre
Waterford to New Ross railway track. The decision of the
type of feasibility of the projects will be based on a series of
technical studies. To facilitate that study process, the
Company invites tenders from suitable parties to complete
the necessary work on the track corridor to clear it of all
obstructing vegetation and other barriers without damaging
the track way itself or any of the structures- bridges,
embankments, cuttings, that comprise it. The section of the
track corridor to be cleared lies between 'Abbey Junction' off
Abbey Road on the outskirts of Ferrybank, Waterford to the
old railway bridge on the River Barrow above Rosbercon,
just north of New Ross. The successful tender party will
required to dispose of the clearance debris in an
appropriate manner. The clearance must be completed in
the dormant growth period which ends on the 28th of
February. For further information on the route, click on:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?
trip_id=1871922&code=72ed9a73130f08e7ee671a5c0729
0639

http://rrbike.freeservers.com/

Might be fun to do before the trees grow back or the rails are lifted.
It might be possible to include a gun mount if necessary.

gobnaitolunacy

Fratello wrote: »

http://rrbike.freeservers.com/

Might be fun to do before the trees grow back or the rails are lifted.
It might be possible to include a gun mount if necessary.

They do that a bit in France on disused lines, our Elfin Safety culture may not allow us to do likewise. Add to that, rails would be removed for scrap metal and gurriers would leave stuff on the rails for a laugh...that's why we can't have nice things

I'm sure the gun mount is a humourous aside....

Sponge Bob

ser

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The line has not been legally abandoned or has an exemption order been applied to it under the 1950 Transport Act. Until either action has taken place CIE (the legal owner of the land) won't be selling the trackway.

What section Losty, the only section I can find...section 13(3) states

(3) The Board may dispose, whether absolutely or for a term of years or for any lesser period, of any property which in the opinion of the Board is not required by it for the discharge of its duties.

As I understand it conditional disposals allowing CIE ...as in the Board mentioned in 13(3) ...to recover lands in future have been made as well as absolute disposals. One example of a conditional disposal as I understand it was the Navan - Dunboyne line.

However lands not disposed of by CIE at all have been squatted, eg in Kerry east of Listowel ( thats not Séamus from Ros na Rún but a serving FG councillor from Listowel standing on the "Kerry Border Barricade"..on CIE land, by the way) where an impasse occured in February of 2013 and also particularly on the Sligo section of the Claremorris - Colooney railway.

Losty Dublin

Sponge Bob wrote: »

ser

What section Losty, the only section I can find...section 13(3) states



As I understand it conditional disposals allowing CIE ...as in the Board mentioned in 13(3) ...to recover lands in future have been made as well as absolute disposals. One example of a conditional disposal as I understand it was the Navan - Dunboyne line.

Section 55 covers the issuing of exemption orders; after that section 21 concerns for the disposal of lands etc. The Exemption Orders differ from Abandonment Orders which is why both exist in Law. Conditional disposals can be applied to land upon sale but TBH I don't know if they were common place.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

However lands not disposed of by CIE at all have been squatted, eg in Kerry east of Listowel ( thats not Séamus from Ros na Rún but a serving FG councillor from Listowel standing on the "Kerry Border Barricade"..on CIE land, by the way) where an impasse occured in February of 2013 and also particularly on the Sligo section of the Claremorris - Colooney railway.

He does look like Seamus and all

I don't know a lot about squatters rights but I do know that some land was never sold on, either by not ever being sold on or in some cases it was simply not bought by interested parties. It would make for an intersting court case when it arises as to how it is defended by both sides

Losty Dublin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I don't know a lot about squatters rights but I do know that some land was never sold on, either by not ever being sold on or in some cases it was simply not bought by interested parties. It would make for an intersting court case when it arises as to how it is defended by both sides

In the case of the North Kerry they've no right at all. You can only make a claim of adverse possession of state land after 30 years.

Sponge Bob

Exactly. Lines worked until 1975 are clearly in state ownership ( unless sold) owing to the 30 year rule on Squatter Rights that apply to state land.

Parts of the Loughrea line were evidently sold...someone has a big dirty private collection of trains parked on it in Dunsandle.

gobnaitolunacy

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

They do that a bit in France on disused lines, our Elfin Safety culture may not allow us to do likewise. Add to that, rails would be removed for scrap metal and gurriers would leave stuff on the rails for a laugh...that's why we can't have nice things

I'm sure the gun mount is a humourous aside....

I have been on one of the Belgian ones. It was fun but not that much! As you say it seems unlikely that such a venture would be allowed here. I recall some Greenn Party PR stunt with a rail bike on WRC a few years back. If you look at the youtuube link a few posts previously you will see a rail walker with gun. I assumed a railbiker might also have the right too bear arms!

101sean

How abut what they are doing on mothballed lines in New Zealand (where H&S isn't an obstruction to good ideas or common sense)

http://www.rotoruanz.com/media/industry_news.php?id=186

corktina

all gone quiet on this line?

gobnaitolunacy

Maybe, to use a well worn cliche, the promoters have run out of steam?

deegs2

out of steam "yes" got off our arse's and made an effort to change things instead of sitting on your FAT arse's giving out about every little thing...would you folks on here (the moner's and begrudgers) ider get a girlfriend or get a life.....rant over..chow

corktina

jeez my wife would kill me....

so what's happening then?

(btw Mooncoin right on the doorstep of Carrick on suir...ever thought of joining forces with the ITG Deegs?

gobnaitolunacy

So...exactly what have you got off your arse's (sic.) and done? Please elaborate.

Cyberbeagle

My arse has never been on the seat

And I have a wonderful girlfriend.

Do I not fit a stereotype?

Victor

deegs2 wrote: »

out of steam "yes" got off our arse's and made an effort to change things instead of sitting on your FAT arse's giving out about every little thing...would you folks on here (the moner's and begrudgers) ider get a girlfriend or get a life.....rant over..chow

No need for abuse

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