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Connacht snub O'Sullivan

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    #32
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Deleted User wrote: »
    why?

    Look at post # 12. All you need to know.


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    #33
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Zzippy wrote: »
    For all those giving out, maybe you have a point and he should have got an interview at least, but ask yourself this - would you want him coaching your province?

    I wouldn't. But we're not saying he should be given the job, we're saying he should've been given a chance to interview.

    I'd hope Connacht would give the job to a younger Irish coach to be honest. If they are a "development province" then that should also hold true for the coaching staff, and there are some good young Irish coaches about at the minute.


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    #34
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Zzippy wrote: »
    For all those giving out, maybe you have a point and he should have got an interview at least, but ask yourself this - would you want him coaching your province?

    I certainly would not dismiss the idea out of hand anyway.


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    #35
    ScissorPaperRock
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If they are a "development province" then that should also hold true for the coaching staff, and there are some good young Irish coaches about at the minute.


    To me it seems that a developing team would benefit more from experienced coaching staff than they would from staff with relatively less experience.


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    #36
    DeDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭DeDoc


    it is very odd, and IMO very foolish by Connacht

    His CV stacks up very well against the other names mentioned. In that situation I think you should at least put the guy on a shortlist, even if you have gripes or reservations. How foolish are they going to look if (for example) Hanks got the job, turns out to be a disaster and gets sacked shortly afterwards? If they interview him and don't like him, it is a few hours of 'wasted' time. But at least they'd be seen to have done it in the event that someone else is appointed and doesn't work out.


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    #37
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    He has applied or put his name forward in the press for every job that has come up in the UK and Ireland in the last 2 years and hasn't had a sniff. There has to be a reason for this. Add to the fact that he hasn't coached club rugby for over a decade, I don't see why he should be interviewed.


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    #38
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    yobbo wrote: »
    A die hard fan I see!

    Eddie Has not been good enough for any job in world rugby since he left Ireland.

    Would was he snubbed for Munster and it was ok??? What if the Leinster job came up, would you want him as the coach there? Why was he not even interviewed for the Ulster job and it was ok?

    Would you rather a guy who has been to numerous World Cups, won international trophies, knows the province incredibly well and has huge experience, both tactically and in management terms, over Tony Hanks?

    For me, it's a great example of how strong the media is in forming opinion in this country that Eddie O'Sullivan is seen as some sort of pariah by some, while our current manager is revered by many still.


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    #39
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    its_phil wrote: »
    I don't remember anyone crying out for Eddie to get a job interview at Ulster or Munster last year, so why should Connacht?

    Connacht aren't Ulster or Munster. Does that really need saying?


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    #40
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    He has applied or put his name forward in the press for every job that has come up in the UK and Ireland in the last 2 years and hasn't had a sniff. There has to be a reason for this. Add to the fact that he hasn't coached club rugby for over a decade, I don't see why he should be interviewed.

    Neither has Graham Henry.

    Has he put his name forward in the press for 'every job that has come up', or is that a way OTT statement? Any links?


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    #41
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    its_phil wrote: »
    I don't remember anyone crying out for Eddie to get a job interview at Ulster or Munster last year, so why should Connacht?

    So you reckon Connacht have a shot at the likes of Wayne Smith, Ian Foster or Jake White, or someone the calibre of a Penney or Anscombe?

    Realistically, and this may sting, Connacht are not nearly on the same level in terms of attraction as any of the other provinces, for both IRFU and many other reasons.


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    #42
    Dubh_Ghaill
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Dubh_Ghaill


    Personally I think Eddie has run his course with Irish rugby. Top class coach who stayed on a little too long. However I cannot understand why he has not been picked up by an English/Welsh or Scottish team.


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    #43
    yobbo
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭yobbo


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Would you rather a guy who has been to numerous World Cups, won international trophies, knows the province incredibly well and has huge experience, both tactically and in management terms, over Tony Hanks?

    For me, it's a great example of how strong the media is in forming opinion in this country that Eddie O'Sullivan is seen as some sort of pariah by some, while our current manager is revered by many still.


    As mentioned already on this forum he left Connacht high and dry before after a pre season tour. He left Galwegians mid season. Why should Connacht forget all that and welcome him back with open arms?

    Imagine Kidney applied for the Leinster job. He left them high and dry. Probably has a better international record than Eddie. Would the leinster fans be happy then? No


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    #44
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    its_phil wrote: »
    I don't remember anyone crying out for Eddie to get a job interview at Ulster or Munster last year, so why should Connacht?
    There were people here giving out that Eddie didn't get an interview with Munster

    God knows I can understand him not getting a job but I think that he is of a high enough standard that he should make interview.

    Hopefully Connacht get a good coach out of it anyway.


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    #45
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Neither has Graham Henry.

    Has he put his name forward in the press for 'every job that has come up', or is that a way OTT statement? Any links?

    Munster
    http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/rugby/eddie-o-sullivan-i-d-love-to-manage-munster-1-3646630

    Ulster
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17160116

    Ospreys
    http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/11931.php

    Western Force & Auckland Blues
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0524/1224316607626.html

    Here's a few. Stick his name into google followed by any club that changed coach in the last 2 years and you'll get a quote either from himself or his agent.


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    #46
    Fishooks13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    yobbo wrote: »
    As mentioned already on this forum he left Connacht high and dry before after a pre season tour. He left Galwegians mid season. Why should Connacht forget all that and welcome him back with open arms?

    Imagine Kidney applied for the Leinster job. He left them high and dry. Probably has a better international record than Eddie. Would the leinster fans be happy then? No

    This is all highly exaggerated


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    #47
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    If I thought Kidney was capable of doing any sort of reasonable job then I'm sure I'd get over it.


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    #48
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Munster
    http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/rugby/eddie-o-sullivan-i-d-love-to-manage-munster-1-3646630

    Ulster
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17160116

    Ospreys
    http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/11931.php

    Western Force & Auckland Blues
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0524/1224316607626.html

    Here's a few. Stick his name into google followed by any club that changed coach in the last 2 years and you'll get a quote either from himself or his agent.

    So take this for a scenario. A journalist has a column to write on rugby. Notices there's a large team who are manager less, and thinks about big names in world rugby who are out of a job. Rings Eddie and asks him 'Would you be interested in the ____ job Eddie'?

    Now does O'Sullivan say:

    A: No wouldn't be interested in going there at all
    or
    B: Yes I would be interested.

    I don't think you can say that 'he's put his name forward in the press for every job that has come up in the UK and Ireland in the last 2 years', or that he 'hasn't had a sniff' to be honest.

    He's obviously looking for a coaching job, is a quality manager and is bound to be linked.

    Is that a reason to not consider him for Connacht? No for me.


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    #49
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Because Ulster and Munster weren't being linked with Sean Holley or Tony Hanks.

    Tana Umaga?


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    #50
    yobbo
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭yobbo


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    This is all highly exaggerated

    How can you possible say this when many people here remember it at the time??

    Eddie did the exact same stunt with Connacht as he did with Ireland. He demanded a longer contract and they called his bluff. He did similar with the IRFU just before the world cup and it was granted. Thankfully Connacht did as Warren Gatland was made coach.

    I am unable to find articles from the time but this one makes a reference to it.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/jan/27/rugbyunion.sixnations1


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    #51
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »

    So you reckon Connacht have a shot at the likes of Wayne Smith, Ian Foster or Jake White, or someone the calibre of a Penney or Anscombe?

    Realistically, and this may sting, Connacht are not nearly on the same level in terms of attraction as any of the other provinces, for both IRFU and many other reasons.

    No I don't. But I still find us interviewing Alex King to be a good choice.

    But I just don't understand why we should be expected to interview him when the others didn't. The names of Michael Cheika and Joe Schmidt weren't exactly massive either. They turned out alright.


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    #52
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    its_phil wrote: »
    No I don't. But I still find us interviewing Alex King to be a good choice.

    But I just don't understand why we should be expected to interview him when the others didn't. The names of Michael Cheika and Joe Schmidt weren't exactly massive either. They turned out alright.

    Well it's fairly obvious that there would be others in line if Connacht had their choice, but as I've said, the other provinces would have attracted these bigger picks. Connacht patently can't and O'Sullivan is fairly patently a good manager.

    Connacht should be 'expected to interview' him, because it's an obvious fit and they should at least hear what he has to say!

    You're turning this into another argument about Connacht's standing in Irish rugby. All I'm trying to say is that it would have been prudent to at least interview what is, to most of us, an obvious option.


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    #53
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »

    Well it's fairly obvious that there would be others in line if Connacht had their choice, but as I've said, the other provinces would have attracted these bigger picks. Connacht patently can't and O'Sullivan is fairly patently a good manager.

    Connacht should be 'expected to interview' him, because it's an obvious fit and they should at least hear what he has to say!

    You're turning this into another argument about Connacht's standing in Irish rugby. All I'm trying to say is that it would have been prudent to at least interview what is, to most of us, an obvious option.

    How am I?

    To be honest I actually am not against interviewing him and I'll look through my posts later but there was one stage where I was in favour of EOS getting the job.

    Just believe there must be a reason why he didn't get one elsewhere. Honestly best of luck to Eddie, perhaps he's just been out of the game for too long


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    #54
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I wonder if it's a case of too much dodgy water under the bridge?


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    #55
    The Jaw
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭The Jaw


    I wonder if it's a case of too much dodgy water under the bridge?[/QUOTE]

    May have to clear this with MOD on this one but isnt his nickname Dagger....Something to do with peoples backs?


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    #56
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Of course they are under no obligation to interview him but I feel Connacht are missing a trick here, they'd get a proven and decent coach at a bargain basement price. I'd also think that Connachts financial and squad limitations would suit EOS's "favourite 15" approach.


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    #57
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I'm surprised the "favourite 15" thing is still being mentioned.

    We didn't have the strength in depth that we do have no for most of EOS's time in charge and in the positions that we did have some depth there was competition for places, the back row being one.

    Rob Henderson and Kevin Maggs alternated in the centre, Murphy and Dempsey were both used, in the second row there was good competition, the back row as mentioned above but other than those there wasn't really any other player who could step in and do a job to international class.

    For the 07 RWC the second choice centre was Gavin Duffy, the second choice No.10 was Paddy Wallace, and the second choice props were Simon Best and Bryan Young. None of these guys at the time would have been good enough to play in the first choice positions without the team struggling.

    During his earlier time with Ireland there would have been a bit of changing the team about as the difference between the first choice and the second choice wouldn't have been as great e.g. Shane Horgan, John Kelly, and Justin Bishop would all have started games in the same position in the 03 6N.


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    #58
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Jaw wrote: »
    May have to clear this with MOD on this one but isnt his nickname Dagger....Something to do with peoples backs?

    Some people think he knifed Gatland in the back to get the Ireland job (with some fairly massive help from Keith Wood). This is a fairly unfair characterization of what happened. Gatland was not the coach he is now at the time and had to go - he just wasn't up to the task of fully professionalizing the team. I think it was his refusal to bring in a defense coach that finally did for him.
    its_phil wrote: »
    No I don't. But I still find us interviewing Alex King to be a good choice.

    But I just don't understand why we should be expected to interview him when the others didn't. The names of Michael Cheika and Joe Schmidt weren't exactly massive either. They turned out alright.

    Cheika and Schmidt were unproven. Most of the names being thrown about for Connacht are proven failures.
    yobbo wrote: »
    Imagine Kidney applied for the Leinster job. He left them high and dry. Probably has a better international record than Eddie. Would the leinster fans be happy then? No

    He doesn't actually. In terms of win ratio EOS has the best record of any Irish coach. He only, subjectively, had Ireland playing the best rugby imo.

    I would not have a problem with EOS being considered for the Leinster job. I think people remember his time with Ireland in a ridiculously harsh light. He had to go when he did, but even then his results were no worse than what Kidney has managed in the last couple years.

    I struggle to believe that this decision is anything other than personal, which I just think is a bit silly given the calibre of coach we're talking about here.


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    #59
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I'm surprised the "favourite 15" thing is still being mentioned.

    I think the point is that EOS can clearly do very well with a limited stock.


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    #60
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    None of us are privy to the reasons Eddie's been given the cold shoulder on this occasion.

    Talk of it being disrespectful not to sit down with the man is more than a little precious imo.


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    #61
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    Talk of it being disrespectful not to sit down with the man is more than a little precious imo.

    I don't think it's disrespectful. It think it's stupid.


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