Connacht snub O'Sullivan

CatFromHue · 23-12-2012 3:17am

Borders no.2 wrote: »

Maybe that's true but sometimes a team especially like Connacht needs a coach who has no knowledge of how Irish Rugby works.

For example with Bradley the attitude seemed to be "we're ****e isn't that the way Connacht are supposed to be when results went badly. When is the Munster job coming up again?". Eddie's attitude with Connacht was pretty much the same in terms of the Irish team even if we probably had nobody at that stage putting their hand up for selection.

Eric has tried to improve our standing and has made progress in some areas not so much in others but sometime a fresh face who has major knowledge of the Irish Rugby system and doesn't see Connacht as having the position of outcast of Irish Rugby can be helpful.

At this stage I would like to see an outsider appointed and given a year or two to prove himself. I'm not overwhelmed by the candidates but for example I'm not sure how you can write off King's coaching ability so quickly. I don't argue he should be ahead of Hanks for example.

I think we all know any ambitious coach who takes us over is probably looking to make a name for himself to make a move but its better he's looking to prove himself for a move to abroad rather than to try and impress the other provinces.

Connacht's two most successful coaches since the game started to take off professionally were outsiders in Warren Gatland and Steph Nel (albeit a few years ago). All the other provinces have gone that way, there has to be some reason behind that.

No, Connacht need the best coach available. A coach who will make the team play to it's full ability.

It has to be said that in Eddie's time there really wasn't anyone from Connacht suitable of playing for Ireland. Below is two links to two randonly picked teamsheets for Connacht, none of the players were good enough for international honours at the time!
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/2648.php?section=lineups&fixid=82
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/2648.php?section=lineups&fixid=5863

I find it genuinely baffling why a Connacht fan would take a coach new to being a head coach letting them bed in like Bradley or Elwood as opposed to a coach who is experienced and would hit the ground running.

Just because the other provinces have appointed a foreign coach doesn't mean Connacht should too. It really reminds me of back in the day (late 90's early 2000's) when a person with a Southern Hemisphere accent was immediately assumed to be more knowledgeable/better than an Irish person which was/is frankly rubbish. We really should have more faith in our own nationality's ability.

Borders no.2 · 23-12-2012 3:57pm

I've been following Connacht a long time and its from the experience of putting up with Bradley for 5 years past what he wanted to be there is the reason why I am very reluctant to see Connacht appoint another coach from one of the other provinces. O'Sullivan might live in Galway but he's a Munster man and coaches from other provinces have no real respect for Connacht. (In fairness we haven't given them reason to respect us)

The deal with Bradley was he'd do a couple of years here and then when the Munster job came available he'd put his hat in the ring for that. When that fell through he came back and didn't give a damn about Connacht and picked up his wages week after week following 50/60/70 point maulings by middle of the road teams. In the end he had to actually step aside himself as there was no-one with the guts/authority inside the Connacht setup to give him his marching orders.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I want to see a coach coming in who will have genuine aspirations for Connacht and will view Connacht as a professional team in their own right not just the poor relation as any coach from another province will view Connacht.

CatFromHue · 23-12-2012 5:36pm

You're handicapping yourselves by being so provincially biased. Ignoring one of the best candidates for the job because of where he is from will do you no favours in the long run.

It's a pretty big insult to say Eddie has no genuine aspirations for Connacht considering how long he's been living and coaching in the province. Apart from Monivea and Connacht itself wasn't Eddie involved with Buccaneers at one stage too?

jamiedav2011 · 23-12-2012 5:54pm

Borders no.2 wrote: »

I've been following Connacht a long time and its from the experience of putting up with Bradley for 5 years past what he wanted to be there is the reason why I am very reluctant to see Connacht appoint another coach from one of the other provinces. O'Sullivan might live in Galway but he's a Munster man and coaches from other provinces have no real respect for Connacht. (In fairness we haven't given them reason to respect us)

The deal with Bradley was he'd do a couple of years here and then when the Munster job came available he'd put his hat in the ring for that. When that fell through he came back and didn't give a damn about Connacht and picked up his wages week after week following 50/60/70 point maulings by middle of the road teams. In the end he had to actually step aside himself as there was no-one with the guts/authority inside the Connacht setup to give him his marching orders.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I want to see a coach coming in who will have genuine aspirations for Connacht and will view Connacht as a professional team in their own right not just the poor relation as any coach from another province will view Connacht.

To me, this is an absolutely ridiculous post.
Firstly, the performance of Bradley had little to do with the fact that he's a Munster man, but even if it did, then why tar O'Sullivan, who lives in Galway and has close ties with Connacht, with the same brush.

Secondly, would someone from another province, which you seem to think makes a difference, not have far more insight into the Irish game? Would you rather a Sean Holley or Alex King, who would know a minute amount of Connacht's history, standing etc, not to mention know nothing about the workings of the IRFU, when compared to EOS.

Finally, who from Connacht in that case do you think could take on the reins? Not much there that I can think of.

Do you seriously believe that any Irish coach from anywhere outside Connacht will view the team as a poor relation? And if you do, well, surely someone outside of Ireland will have the same view?!

Can't see the logic to that post at all Borders.

CatFromHue · 23-12-2012 5:57pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

To me, this is an absolutely ridiculous post.
Firstly, the performance of Bradley had little to do with the fact that he's a Munster man, but even if it did, then why tar O'Sullivan, who lives in Galway and has close ties with Connacht, with the same brush.

Secondly, would someone from another province, which you seem to think makes a difference, not have far more insight into the Irish game? Would you rather a Sean Holley or Alex King, who would know a minute amount of Connacht's history, standing etc, not to mention know nothing about the workings of the IRFU, when compared to EOS.

Finally, who from Connacht in that case do you think could take on the reins? Not much there that I can think of.

Do you seriously believe that any Irish coach from anywhere outside Connacht will view the team as a poor relation? And if you do, well, surely someone outside of Ireland will have the same view?!

Can't see the logic to that post at all Borders.

Pat Lam: It's always been a dream of mine to coach Conn, Conn, Con..act!

Shelflife · 23-12-2012 6:09pm

My take on this is that while eos may well be the most qualified and a fine coach he may well no be what Connacht are looking for.

For example take two horses, Sea the Stars and Kauto Star. Now on paper Sea the Stars breeding s impeccable and his record is prob the best ever. So on paper he would be the best of the two horses without doubt.

However if you want a horse to go the distance and negotiate a few obstacles along the way then you would pick Kauto Star.

While eos pedigree is not in question, I would feel that his commitment (long Term) would be.

So while ignoring what seems to be the best Horse may well be the right choice in the long term.

The Aussie · 23-12-2012 6:25pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Pat Lam: It's always been a dream of mine to coach Conn, Conn, Con..act!

It would make the Connact v Ulster game interesting with the history between Lam and Anscombe

Long story short, a racist text got sent from Anscombe's phone to Pat Lam's phone when there was a lot of other racist remarks being thrown about Pat Lam's heritage.

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/pat-lam-receives-race-hate-text-message-4891899

CatFromHue · 23-12-2012 6:32pm

Shelflife wrote: »

While eos pedigree is not in question, I would feel that his commitment (long Term) would be.

His commitment long term is at least the same as all the other candidates.

CatFromHue · 23-12-2012 6:33pm

The Aussie wrote: »

It would make the Connact v Ulster game interesting with the history between Lam and Anscombe

Long story short, a racist text got sent from Anscombe's phone to Pat Lam's phone when there was a lot of other racist remarks being thrown about Pat Lam's heritage.

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/pat-lam-receives-race-hate-text-message-4891899

That was pretty bizarre all round.

The Aussie · 23-12-2012 6:39pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

That was pretty bizarre all round.

And the Super Rugby rumour mill has it going even further than that, just that Pat Lam did not want to give the story anymore legs, but yes bizarre alright.

Eoin · 23-12-2012 7:51pm

How much influence does the IRFU have when it comes to picking a coach out of interest? Are they involved at all, or does the province manage the whole thing themselves.

Shelflife wrote: »

My take on this is that while eos may well be the most qualified and a fine coach he may well no be what Connacht are looking for.

For example take two horses, Sea the Stars and Kauto Star. Now on paper Sea the Stars breeding s impeccable and his record is prob the best ever. So on paper he would be the best of the two horses without doubt.

However if you want a horse to go the distance and negotiate a few obstacles along the way then you would pick Kauto Star.

While eos pedigree is not in question, I would feel that his commitment (long Term) would be.

So while ignoring what seems to be the best Horse may well be the right choice in the long term.

That sounds like a fair point - haven't a clue about the nags, but I think I get what you're saying. Had he been interviewed and not been successful, I think people might understand it. But to not let him make his case at all and immediately discount him as a contender without even interviewing him just seems very odd.

Hennybug · 23-12-2012 8:36pm

AFAIK two of the four man committee who will select the new coach would've been around in the previous EO'S era so would be going from personal experience on what kind of fit he would be for Connacht.

So as bizarre as it seems to those outside the province, within Connacht, not considering him, is seen as a sensible move

Borders no.2 · 24-12-2012 1:09am

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

To me, this is an absolutely ridiculous post.
Firstly, the performance of Bradley had little to do with the fact that he's a Munster man, but even if it did, then why tar O'Sullivan, who lives in Galway and has close ties with Connacht, with the same brush.

Secondly, would someone from another province, which you seem to think makes a difference, not have far more insight into the Irish game? Would you rather a Sean Holley or Alex King, who would know a minute amount of Connacht's history, standing etc, not to mention know nothing about the workings of the IRFU, when compared to EOS.

Finally, who from Connacht in that case do you think could take on the reins? Not much there that I can think of.

Do you seriously believe that any Irish coach from anywhere outside Connacht will view the team as a poor relation? And if you do, well, surely someone outside of Ireland will have the same view?!

Can't see the logic to that post at all Borders.

The performance of Bradley had a lot to do with him being a Munster man. A foreign coach achieving such results would have been booted out the door years earlier but because of who he was and because he was being groomed for bigger jobs we had to put up with seasons of almost constant embarrassment and listen to patronising drivel saying Bradley was doing a good job because we might play well in a couple of the interpros which were the only Connacht games most journalists / observers would watch.

EOS does not have close ties with Connacht, he started re-appearing back at matches a couple of months ago when Eric was moving aside, Kidney for all his faults at least came to a reasonable amount of Connacht matches.

IMO (and I'm probably in a minority in this) the less someone coming in knows about Connachts history / standing the better. This Connacht team has too much potential to be judged against the old standards where one or two wins over a big team was enough to make the season a success. People coming from outside are more unlikely to accept things the way they are. Whether he was right or wrong Sears at least took a strong stand on the Mike McCarthy issue while in the past Gerry Kelly just accepted that players would move to Leinster and we'd get thrown someone like Stewart Maguire for facilitating the Jamie Hagan transfer.

Yes I do seriously believe coaches from other provinces will view Connacht as the poor relation and I can't see how anyone could say otherwise. Even if they try not to anyone in Irish rugby circles is pre-programmed as seeing Connacht as the poor relation / gallant losers.

I don't see anyone in Connacht good enough to take charge. I think an outsider is what is needed at this point in time and hopefully we can develop coaching talent from within with the right mentality to take up the reins in the medium term.

CatFromHue · 24-12-2012 4:01am

Borders no.2 wrote: »

EOS does not have close ties with Connacht, he started re-appearing back at matches a couple of months ago when Eric was moving aside, Kidney for all his faults at least came to a reasonable amount of Connacht matches.

I'm trying to remember when but the camera did pick EOS out in the crowd in the Sportsground for a Connacht game. I think it was this time last year but not exact. It defo wasn't this season as the first game I watched that was in the Sportsground was on Saturday. I was out of the country for most of the season and missed all the rugby on tv.

I have to say your lack of confidence in Irish coaches is scary!

jm08 · 24-12-2012 1:15pm

Borders no.2 wrote: »

The performance of Bradley had a lot to do with him being a Munster man. A foreign coach achieving such results would have been booted out the door years earlier but because of who he was and because he was being groomed for bigger jobs we had to put up with seasons of almost constant embarrassment and listen to patronising drivel saying Bradley was doing a good job because we might play well in a couple of the interpros which were the only Connacht games most journalists / observers would watch.

EOS does not have close ties with Connacht, he started re-appearing back at matches a couple of months ago when Eric was moving aside, Kidney for all his faults at least came to a reasonable amount of Connacht matches.

IMO (and I'm probably in a minority in this) the less someone coming in knows about Connachts history / standing the better. This Connacht team has too much potential to be judged against the old standards where one or two wins over a big team was enough to make the season a success. People coming from outside are more unlikely to accept things the way they are. Whether he was right or wrong Sears at least took a strong stand on the Mike McCarthy issue while in the past Gerry Kelly just accepted that players would move to Leinster and we'd get thrown someone like Stewart Maguire for facilitating the Jamie Hagan transfer.

Yes I do seriously believe coaches from other provinces will view Connacht as the poor relation and I can't see how anyone could say otherwise. Even if they try not to anyone in Irish rugby circles is pre-programmed as seeing Connacht as the poor relation / gallant losers.

I don't see anyone in Connacht good enough to take charge. I think an outsider is what is needed at this point in time and hopefully we can develop coaching talent from within with the right mentality to take up the reins in the medium term.

Wasn't Bradley only there 3 days a week and Eric was there fulltime. The change of coaching didn't improve Connacht much - it was more the support given to it by the IRFU that helped change. Eric might still be with Connacht if Bradley was still around for the 3 days a week.

EOS is out of club coaching for over 10/12 years - thats a major drawback. The last time he was involved in club coaching, it was still semi-amateur.

Robbo · 24-12-2012 1:21pm

I'd just like to commend a lot of posters on this thread for seemingly being the most employable candidates in Ireland, having never applied from a job they thought they were well in for and then received a PFO letter.

GerM · 24-12-2012 2:10pm

jm08 wrote: »

EOS is out of club coaching for over 10/12 years - thats a major drawback. The last time he was involved in club coaching, it was still semi-amateur.

That argument doesn't hold up. It's not a different sport; he has plenty of experience working in a professional environment. Jake White had never coached at club level when he was appointed head coach at the Brumbies last year. Graham Henry hasn't coached at club level in 14 years. Steve Hansen hasn't either. Andy Robinson hadn't coached club rugby in about 8 years when he took the Edinburgh job. I would think Connacht would hire any of them in a heartbeat if they were interested.

CatFromHue · 24-12-2012 6:54pm

Robbo wrote: »

I'd just like to commend a lot of posters on this thread for seemingly being the most employable candidates in Ireland, having never applied from a job they thought they were well in for and then received a PFO letter.

Anytime I've gotten a pfo letter (or not gotten anything which is usually what happens) when I've been a very good candidate for a job I've had a right good bitch about it.

Which is what I'm doing on here on EOS's behalf.

I had a quick flick through EOS's book today in the book shop and the reason he left Connacht years ago was that he wanted a three year contract and they would only offer him a one year deal. I think he would have had to leave his PE job to fulfill the contract so wanted three years. He says he was told it's one year or nothing to which he replied it's nothing then. It's not unreasonable to see his point here I think.

Stheno · 09-01-2013 11:40pm

Interesting article by Alan Quinlan on the matter

porterbelly · 09-01-2013 11:57pm

Stheno wrote: »

Interesting article by Alan Quinlan on the matter

Interesting or just plain spoof

Says he thinks Eddie should have got the job and spends the whole article explaining why he shouldn't be put in charge of any team.

Stheno · 10-01-2013 12:00am

Maybe I should have said weird for the reasons you said?

Stanza2 · 11-01-2013 12:27am

porterbelly wrote: »

Interesting or just plain spoof

Says he thinks Eddie should have got the job and spends the whole article explaining why he shouldn't be put in charge of any team.

I agree, the article by Quinlan is kind of strange. It spends lots of time slagging EOS and ridiculing the man, then says that Connacht should have employed him? Don't get that myself.

RandolphEsq · 11-01-2013 12:37am

Jesus Quinlan should have gotten some to read over, and edit, his ranting soliloquay

duckysauce · 11-01-2013 12:53am

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Jesus Quinlan should have gotten some to read over, and edit, his ranting soliloquay

He has written an honest article instead of saying Eddie was great ,they both had their differences, and I would say as Quinlan said himself he was a pain in the hole to deal with which made him a handful to deal with the coach and as an opposition player.

Stanza2 · 12-01-2013 1:10am

The words that come to me to describe EOS when I read Geordan Murphy book and indeed Quinlan's article are....... Boring, unimaginative, poor communicator, bad tempered, unpredictable and not very loyal

GerM · 12-01-2013 1:20am

Stanza2 wrote: »

The words that come to me to describe EOS when I read Geordan Murphy book and indeed Quinlan's article are....... Boring, unimaginative, poor communicator, bad tempered, unpredictable and not very loyal

Wait, two lads who Eddie dropped didn't say the sun shone out of his arse?

Stop the presses.

Podge_irl · 12-01-2013 3:17am

I thought Geordan Murphy came out incredibly badly from the excerpts I read. Seemingly he didn't think he had a problem with his defense even though EOS did. I'm on the side of EOS in that one...

Stanza2 · 12-01-2013 7:05pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I thought Geordan Murphy came out incredibly badly from the excerpts I read. Seemingly he didn't think he had a problem with his defense even though EOS did. I'm on the side of EOS in that one...

Gotta disagree with that...... Geordie Murphy poor defence ! Dream on Podge.

Gifted ! More like it. In every department. Very few Irish players could match him even it went down to the ol "show me your medals" comparison.

His book is well titled, he is "the outsider". The boy who was told that he was to slow. He is one of the few who has never been IRFU contracted. One of the few who is outside the Irish scene, who can tell it like it is. You can even sense in Quinlan's article that he wants to go further and say what an eejit EOS was but of course he lives here and he will bump into him every now and then and be able to say "I told them they should have hired you, told them you were a changed man" what a crock of ****.

I'll go with Mr Murphy. Mind you if you can find two players who think the world of him out of the hundreds that he has coached, that's a really high number.

Funk It · 12-01-2013 11:12pm

Stanza2 wrote: »

Gotta disagree with that...... Geordie Murphy poor defence ! Dream on Podge.

Gifted ! More like it. In every department. Very few Irish players could match him even it went down to the ol "show me your medals" comparison.

His book is well titled, he is "the outsider". The boy who was told that he was to slow. He is one of the few who has never been IRFU contracted. One of the few who is outside the Irish scene, who can tell it like it is. You can even sense in Quinlan's article that he wants to go further and say what an eejit EOS was but of course he lives here and he will bump into him every now and then and be able to say "I told them they should have hired you, told them you were a changed man" what a crock of ****.

I'll go with Mr Murphy. Mind you if you can find two players who think the world of him out of the hundreds that he has coached, that's a really high number.

I will give this video as a backup to the above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGTMFT7GaY

I am, and always have been, a big fan of Murphy. He was a class act who could create a chance out of nothing. His defense was always called into question, but I think that was wrong. Lets say that O'Sullivan was a big fan of chess, he knew that Girvan had x and y, but whereas Geordan couldn't be categorized.

I must admit, when King and Holley were announced as being out of the running, I was worried whether we had missed a trick with O'Sullivan. But I am happy with the appointment of Lam (once Carolan isn't outed), and I think the province has a positive future (glad I can say that). Elwood is always going to be a big loss to Connacht, but I have to say (as much as it hurts) that Connacht lack rugby smarts in some games (more down to the players I will admit, Parks seems to be smarting some things up). Whether it is kicking away possession or just poor options in attack, I think we need a new direction, and I hope that Lam can bring this to our game.

Have to wonder if Bryson Lam will end up being offered an academy contract at Connacht at all, no idea whether he is a good player or not, but come on, must have some chance now.

CatFromHue · 12-01-2013 11:25pm

Stanza2 wrote: »

Gotta disagree with that...... Geordie Murphy poor defence ! Dream on Podge.

Gifted ! More like it. In every department. Very few Irish players could match him even it went down to the ol "show me your medals" comparison.

Over his career Murphy was a poor to average defender.

I don't know what you mean by the "show me your medals" as Murphy I'm sure is one of the most decorated Irish players around.

Funk It wrote: »

I will give this video as a backup to the above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGTMFT7GaY

Tuilagi is known for his power in the close not his pace over long distance. It was a good tackle from Murphy here but nothing spectacular and one that he should have made.

Connacht snub O'Sullivan

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