Friday 21st December. (Simonsig)

longshotvalue

Simonsig looks a great animal, but i wouldnt think he will be fast enough for the Arkle, I wouldnt be surprised if he went for something longer..
I actually think Overturn and him should be around the same price really. Overturn was a better hurdler and looked very good on chase debut.

If they both jump well at the Festival (Granted Simonsig appears the better jumper of the 2), i cant see Simonsig being quick enough to get past overturn with his head down..

RichieLawlor

aidankkk wrote: »

Simonsig looks a great animal, but i wouldnt think he will be fast enough for the Arkle, I wouldnt be surprised if he went for something longer..
I actually think Overturn and him should be around the same price really. Overturn was a better hurdler and looked very good on chase debut.

If they both jump well at the Festival (Granted Simonsig appears the better jumper of the 2), i cant see Simonsig being quick enough to get past overturn with his head down..

I think your being unfair, the way Simonsig travels I'd say he could lay up with anything. The Arkle will be run at a mental pace and I can't see Overturn making all in it.

longshotvalue

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I think your being unfair, the way Simonsig travels I'd say he could lay up with anything. The Arkle will be run at a mental pace and I can't see Overturn making all in it.

Possibly , he just looks more of a stayer to me, and im not sure about the huge differance in price

RichieLawlor

aidankkk wrote: »

Possibly , he just looks more of a stayer to me, and im not sure about the huge differance in price

Can I ask at what point in any race so far has he looked like a stayer

Slattsy

Geraghty is on record saying that there are not many horses in the yard that can stay with him over a mile in a piece of fast work.

I can understand people trying to find holes, that's part of the game. But when it's so glaringly obvious the horse is top class on what he's done to date, just stop.

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

By the handicapper I presume,timeform have him on 162.

Source?

prettyboy81

I can't wait for the Arkle & this thread on the 1st day of the festival

UrbanSea

Don't know where anyone's going saying Simonsig is rated 148. He's 160

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Don't know where anyone's going saying Simonsig is rated 148. He's 160

The person saying it hasn't a clue?

prettyboy81

UrbanSea wrote: »

Don't know where anyone's going saying Simonsig is rated 148. He's 160

162P on the Timeform site at the moment with Avrika rated 158 only 4lbs between the horses.


Timeform's top-rated novice chasers:
162P SIMONSIG Nicky Henderson
158p DYNASTE (Fr) David Pipe
158 ARVIKA LIGEONNIERE (Fr) Willie Mullins, Ireland
152p BACK IN FOCUS (Ire) Willie Mullins, Ireland
151 AUPCHARLIE (Ire) Willie Mullins, Ireland
150p CAPTAIN CONAN (Fr) Nicky Henderson
149 OUR FATHER (Ire) David Pipe
148 OSCARS WELL (Ire) Jessica Harrington, Ireland
147p HIGHLAND LODGE (Ire) Emma Lavelle
147+ UNIONISTE (Fr) Paul Nicholls
147 BAILY GREEN (Ire) Mouse Morris, Ireland
147 FINGAL BAY (Ire) Philip Hobbs
147 HOUBLON DES OBEAUX (Fr) Venetia Williams
147 RAJDHANI EXPRESS (Fr) Nicky Henderson
147 TOFINO BAY (Ire) Dessie Hughes, Ireland

UrbanSea

I see where you quoted it but can't find the post

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

I see where you quoted it but can't find the post

Last post on page 12

SRFC said he was rated 148 but wouldn't back him in a handicap off that mark

I'm in 2 minds, put SRFC on ignore or continue to laugh at his idiotic ramblings here

Morgans

prettyboy81 wrote: »

162P on the Timeform site at the moment with Avrika rated 158 only 4lbs between the horses.


Timeform's top-rated novice chasers:
162P SIMONSIG Nicky Henderson
158p DYNASTE (Fr) David Pipe
158 ARVIKA LIGEONNIERE (Fr) Willie Mullins, Ireland
152p BACK IN FOCUS (Ire) Willie Mullins, Ireland
151 AUPCHARLIE (Ire) Willie Mullins, Ireland
150p CAPTAIN CONAN (Fr) Nicky Henderson
149 OUR FATHER (Ire) David Pipe
148 OSCARS WELL (Ire) Jessica Harrington, Ireland
147p HIGHLAND LODGE (Ire) Emma Lavelle
147+ UNIONISTE (Fr) Paul Nicholls
147 BAILY GREEN (Ire) Mouse Morris, Ireland
147 FINGAL BAY (Ire) Philip Hobbs
147 HOUBLON DES OBEAUX (Fr) Venetia Williams
147 RAJDHANI EXPRESS (Fr) Nicky Henderson
147 TOFINO BAY (Ire) Dessie Hughes, Ireland

Arvika's 158 for timeform was over 2m4f.

longshotvalue

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Can I ask at what point in any race so far has he looked like a stayer

Not a lot to be honest just general gut feeling looking at him that hell be better over further. Dont get me wrong tough he looks the most likely winner, but way too short at the moment.

SRFC

Professional writer for the RP had him on 148 like anyone would I trusted what I read,Timeform has nothing to do with the handicappers rating so they are irrelivent,


LoL at the mug comment ''trying to pick holes in a great horse'' I presume your all in on this beast for the arkle at even money or are you just going to come on here when he gets beaten in the race and say you had no bet ffs

Morgans

SRFC wrote: »

I presume your all in on this beast for the arkle at even money

Classic. Says far more about you.

Are you still planning a place lay?

Morgans

BHA rating of Hinterland is 148.

Are you sure you reading things right?

http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/media/ratings/

UrbanSea

SRFC wrote: »

Professional writer for the RP had him on 148 like anyone would I trusted what I read,Timeform has nothing to do with the handicappers rating so they are irrelivent,


LoL at the mug comment ''trying to pick holes in a great horse'' I presume your all in on this beast for the arkle at even money or are you just going to come on here when he gets beaten in the race and say you had no bet ffs

The professional writer for the RP has even less to do with the handicap ratings. Handicapper has him at 160, as I pointed out above

Colonel Sanders

Is there anyway of ignoring SRFC on other threads but not this one?

It's comedy gold on here!

Slattsy

I reckon he knows he's dug himself into a hole here, and is too stubborn to admit it.

And calling everyone a mug punter doesn't elude to the fact that you were the one that was talking about laying Simonsig at 1/5.
So, as far as i can see there's only one mug punter on this thread..

SRFC

Right ive answeres your questions im against this on all known form and hype and the prices let me ask this question to the people who are saying this is a top class horse that shouldnt be taken on LoL,



How much are ye having on this racing certainty at even money im intrigued as im the only layer on here it seems?

Morgans

I'm not betting on him at evens. I've never called him a racing certainty or anything like it. id prefer to be on Overturn each way closer to the day.

You are against him "on all known form" apparently.

Are you willing to accept that he gave a horse rated 148, 11lbs and a 35l beating, or are you going to continue misreading racing post journalists?

Its not that you are looking to lay him that makes you laughable, its your reasons.

SRFC

Morgans wrote: »

I'm not betting on him at evens. I've never called him a racing certainty or anything like it. id prefer to be on Overturn each way closer to the day.

You are against him "on all known form" apparently.

Are you willing to accept that he gave a horse rated 148, 11lbs and a 35l beating, or are you going to continue misreading racing post journalists?

Its not that you are looking to lay him that makes you laughable, its your reasons.

He has NEVER faced a horse as good as Overturn there's one simple reason to oppose him.

klairondavis

McCain would want to get Overturn out of his box and get some more jumping experience into him.

Morgans

SRFC wrote: »

He has NEVER faced a horse as good as Overturn there's one simple reason to oppose him.

That's not on all known form. There is far more fingers crossed that Overturn than about Simonsig. The bare form of what he did at Sandown was nothing special. You'd understand that with your ratings expertise.

SRFC

Morgans wrote: »

That's not on all known form. There is far more fingers crossed that Overturn than about Simonsig. The bare form of what he did at Sandown was nothing special. You'd understand that with your ratings expertise.

Simonsig would not place in a champion hurdle he got beat by that dog fingal bay over hurdles ffs overturn would lap him

Morgans

SRFC wrote: »

Simonsig would not place in a champion hurdle

Zero evidence but free to your opinion. Its the dogmatism that makes you sound so foolish. There would have been thousands saying that Rock on Ruby couldnt place in a Champion Hurdle at this stage last year. I think Simonsig would go close this year, but Henderson is sending him for the race that he thinks he will win. Whether he would or would not win the champion hurdle is completely irrelevant.

SRFC wrote: »

he got beat by that dog fingal bay over hurdles

That is correct.

SRFC wrote: »

ffs overturn would lap him

No he wouldn't. There was 6lbs between them on official ratings last year.

Its a shame that your arguement would be worth more than nothing if they were planning to race in the champion hurdle.

So, place lay Simonsig? Who else finishes ahead of him.

RichieLawlor

SRFC wrote: »

Simonsig would not place in a champion hurdle he got beat by that dog fingal bay over hurdles ffs overturn would lap him

You are actually a bit slow or something

mdwexford

SRFC wrote: »

Simonsig would not place in a champion hurdle he got beat by that dog fingal bay over hurdles ffs overturn would lap him

Fingal Bay is decent, Simonsig was sick that day.

Overturn was not a great hurdler regardless of what he did last season and I would fancy Simonsig to beat him.

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

Simonsig would not place in a champion hurdle he got beat by that dog fingal bay over hurdles

Using similar "logic"

Istabraq wasn't up to much on the flat, so could never make a hurdler

Grand Finale beat Sinndar on the flat, no way could Sinndar make up into a top class horse

Sea The Stars was beaten in his first maiden run. Champion 3yo? Pfft

etc etc

This thread annoyed me at first, now I'm actually enjoying every post!!

Colonel Sanders

I've just re-read this thread. It's one of the funniest I've ever read on here tbh

Only noticed this quote just now

SRFC wrote: »

you's swear he's won a few graded races over fences so far

FYI both Simonsig's wins over fences so far have been, you guessed it, graded races

I suppose your comeback will be "yeah but what's he beat" in which case we can all laugh again

hucklebuck

Just on Overturn lapping Simonsig:rolleyes:

Overturn achieved 166 as an 8 year old, Simonsig achieved 157 as a 6 year old (Overturn was rated 145 as a 6 year old).

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Simonsig would have improved over hurdles!!

Even if you used the SRFC rating formula of BHA - 12 Simonsig still wouldn't be lapped.

Maybe you have a different formula for hurdle races?

RichieLawlor

Using the SCFCSCF logic again, how many grade 1 winners over fences has Sprinter Sacre beat? Also he didn't see which way Frascati Park went that day at ascot.

I'm bored of this now

SRFC

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I've just re-read this thread. It's one of the funniest I've ever read on here tbh

Only noticed this quote just now



FYI both Simonsig's wins over fences so far have been, you guessed it, graded races

I suppose your comeback will be "yeah but what's he beat" in which case we can all laugh again

Beaten 8 horses id say probably one had been single fingure odd's




says it all really non events




Ps.How much you having on this certainty? (that goes for all the other people who have since ignored the first time I asked it)

Morgans

Who has said he is a certainty?

I'd call it a frighteningly bad straw man argument, but wouldn't want to confuse

SRFC

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Using the SCFCSCF logic again, how many grade 1 winners over fences has Sprinter Sacre beat? Also he didn't see which way Frascati Park went that day at ascot.

I'm bored of this now

Proven horse who was hyped and delivered beaten a fair few grade one winners i'd say and will continue to for the next 3 years.

RichieLawlor

SRFC wrote: »

Proven horse who was hyped and delivered beaten a fair few grade one winners i'd say and will continue to for the next 3 years.

Who are these 'fair few grade 1 winners'

hucklebuck

SRFC wrote: »

Ps.How much you having on this certainty? (that goes for all the other people who have since ignored the first time I asked it)

Funny coming from the guy who has not answered the question about what you will lay Simonsig for and who is so confident in laying him, you layed him for the price of a pint.

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

Ps.How much you having on this certainty? (that goes for all the other people who have since ignored the first time I asked it)

1. Never said he was a certainty
2. Never said I'm backing it

Evens ante post isn't my thing. What I (and others) so far have said is:

1. Simonsig was a top class novice. Timeform and the official handicapper agreed. You disagreed. You also said he hadn't beaten a G1 horse. This was also proven to be incorrect

2. First time out I said I was very impressed, great start over fences but while you could understand bookies going 5/2 I wasn't in a hurry to take. You said you'd price him as a 7/1 shot. He's now evens, looks like you were wrong again

3. Was SERIOUSLY impressed with his 2nd run. You weren't, you said he was rated 148 and wouldn't back him in a handicap off that mark. Again you were completely wrong

I love the part about avoiding the question. You come out with opinions, when people disagree and give pretty hard evidence on why they think you're wrong you reply with comments such as "schooling race", "Shur I'd beat that horse" "I'd jump around Kempton"

You've also made at least 2 statements of "fact", that Simonsig hadn't beaten a G1 winner and it wasn't like he'd won 2 graded races over fences. Both of these statements were 100% incorrect.

As I said even if Simonsig doesn't beat another horse in his career I will still believe you are a clueless idiot.

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

Proven horse who was hyped and delivered beaten a fair few grade one winners i'd say and will continue to for the next 3 years.

How does a "hype" horse become a non-hype horse?

Pop quiz, you think a horse is hyped. He wins 2 Grade 1 races at the major Spring festivals beating both fields senseless. He then turns his hand to fences and beats 2 fields senseless without coming off the bride. One of these horses is a 148 rated chaser, receiving 11lbs. Does this not justify the "hype"

If not what will said horse have to do before you acknowledge it is not just "hype"?

F**k me this is actually like talking to a 7 year old

RichieLawlor

Not like the Colonel to get so wound up. Pretty hard evidence that SFRCSRF is talking utter bollocks

SRFC

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

How does a "hype" horse become a non-hype horse?

Pop quiz, you think a horse is hyped. He wins 2 Grade 1 races at the major Spring festivals beating both fields senseless. He then turns his hand to fences and beats 2 fields senseless without coming off the bride. One of these horses is a 148 rated chaser, receiving 11lbs. Does this not justify the "hype"

If not what will said horse have to do before you acknowledge it is not just "hype"?

F**k me this is actually like talking to a 7 year old

He's such a good horse though why arent you lumping on?


Ive come on and said he's terrible value for various reasons you come on disagree yet wont put your money where your mouth is?

hucklebuck

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Not like the Colonel to get so wound up. Pretty hard evidence that SFRCSRF is talking utter bollocks

Someone must have stolen his fried chicken recipe :eek:

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

Proven horse who was hyped and delivered beaten a fair few grade one winners i'd say and will continue to for the next 3 years.

Let's look at the Grade 1 winners he's beaten:

Cue Card
Zaidpour
Peddlers Cross
Zaynar
Menorah
Al Ferof
(am I missing anyone?)

Of those horse only Menorah & Zaidpour have actually won Grade 1's since being beaten by Sprinter Sacre and I'm sure if I wanted to I could pick holes in the form using the same spurious logic you applied to Simonsig's novice form (eg Menorah beat OTT rivals at Aintree)

So I'm not quite getting how SS has "proven" from but Simonsig is all hype

FWIW I think Sprinter Sacre is a top, top class chaser, I'm just pointing out the idiocy SRFC used to try pick holes in Simonsig's novice hurdle form

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

He's such a good horse though why arent you lumping on?

Did you read my last post, I said evens Ante Post isn't my thing. I'll post back on the day whether I'm backing it or not

SRFC wrote: »

Ive come on and said he's terrible value for various reasons you come on disagree yet wont put your money where your mouth is?

A lot of people on here have said evens isn't value, however they have actually used logic rather than talking complete and utter bollox

Please point me to one of my posts where I said evens was value please?

RichieLawlor

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Let's look at the Grade 1 winners he's beaten:

Cue Card
Zaidpour
Peddlers Cross
Zaynar
Menorah
Al Ferof
(am I missing anyone?)

Of those horse only Menorah & Zaidpour have actually won Grade 1's since being beaten by Sprinter Sacre and I'm sure if I wanted to I could pick holes in the form using the same spurious logic you applied to Simonsig's novice form (eg Menorah beat OTT rivals at Aintree)

So I'm not quite getting how SS has "proven" from but Simonsig is all hype

FWIW I think Sprinter Sacre is a top, top class chaser, I'm just pointing out the idiocy SRFC used to try pick holes in Simonsig's novice hurdle form

But he got beaten by that dog Frascati Park

prettyboy81

I've backed Simonsig at even's in the ante post market & I think he is value with how the Arkle race is cutting up.

I believe he will win in similar fashion to his stable mate Sprinter did last year, never being fully extended.

Colonel Sanders

SRFC wrote: »

Beaten 8 horses id say probably one had been single fingure odd's

Surprise surprise, you'd say wrong (again :rolleyes:)

Act Of Kalanisi was 11/2
Dare Me 8/1
Hinterland 4/1

Any other nonsensical stupidity you'd like to post? I'll be going to bed soon so do it within the next hour please. Sunday nights can be a bit depressing before going back to work, a good chuckle at your idiocy would really cheer me up

Colonel Sanders

RichieLawlor wrote: »

But he got beaten by that dog Frascati Park

Using the patented SRFC method that means that no matter what he achieves he's not top class

droidman123

SRFC wrote: »

Beaten 8 horses id say probably one had been single fingure odd's




says it all really non events




Ps.How much you having on this certainty? (that goes for all the other people who have since ignored the first time I asked it)

graded races are non events? jeez i have following horse racing for over 30 years, and now all my illuions have been shattered!! bit ridiculous to call a graded race a "non event". fair enough, ur entitled to ur opinion ablout simonsigs chances, but comments like that dont really help ur cause.