Nurses

whenever

The median starting salary for graduates in Dublin in 2011 was €22500, see
ahecs.ie/wp.../Salary-survey-2012-uploaded-sept-2012.pdf
so in a job market with only one significant employer maybe a 2year contract starting at €22000 is not bad?

blackplum123

tenton wrote: »

You sure money was the reason - that they did not go home because they missed their famalies, own culture + language etc? Given the wages they were on here are far higher than wages they would get for equivalent work elsewhere. Our minimum wage is still too high.

What do you think the minimum wage should be then...

davepatr07

My other half is a Filipino nurse working in NZ for over 2 years now. (We met over there/here) Long story..

She has said that she would like to move to Ireland sometime however she is not sure with the current situation going on with the health service and whether it would be better to stick it out in the long run in NZ.

I showed her an article recently on Irish Nurses moving to Oz for better money and conditions however having visited Ireland last year with me she has fallen in love with our Soda Bread and Irish Breaky among other things! :rolleyes: I think it (HSE) needs a big shake down but Nurses shouldn't have to take the flack with the amount of work they do.

redtelephone

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

22k for shift work as a nurse? Ridiculous wage.

You're mistaken there. The 22k is basic pay, and does not include shift pay. There is extra money paid for shift work. Even Liam Doran admitted that most nurses on a basic of 22k will earn between 25k or 26k after shift payments are taken into account, (a fact rarely mentioned when discussing this topic).

It's all in here: HSE Terms and Conditions of Employment:

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/HR/Terms_and_Conditions_of_Employment.pdf

steddyeddy

redtelephone wrote: »

You're mistaken there. The 22k is basic pay, and does not include shift pay. There is extra money paid for shift work. Even Liam Doran admitted that most nurses on a basic of 22k will earn between 25k or 26k after shift payments are taken into account, (a fact rarely mentioned when discussing this topic).

It's all in here: HSE Terms and Conditions of Employment:

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/HR/Terms_and_Conditions_of_Employment.pdf

Even so do you not think consultants need to be dealt with before the nurses?

demanufactured

Lovely nurses in tight uniforms.

redtelephone

steddyeddy wrote: »

Even so do you not think consultants need to be dealt with before the nurses?

I think the whole system needs to be reset. We cannot afford the health service as it's presently structured. But regarding nurses' pay it's a pity that the full truth is often a casualty in these situations.

steddyeddy

redtelephone wrote: »

I think the whole system needs to be reset. We cannot afford the health service as it's presently structured. But regarding nurses' pay it's a pity that the full truth is often a casualty in these situations.

The full truth is that we have consultants paid far more than their talents are worth and instead of tackling them we are tackling real frontline staff.

christina_x

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

22k for shift work as a nurse? Ridiculous wage. Imagine the $hit you would have to put up with (literally in some cases) for that pittance. Fair play to them for not taking it up.

I got spat on today, along with cursed right out of it (i'm in mental health) Would anybody arguing that our job isn't that hard put up with that, and then continue to try your best to reason with and work with this person in order to care for them? Doubtful.

apache

with this sad state of affairs (speaking as a frontline worker) the world has gone mad. frontline staff have no way out. working long hours, severely reduced pay, high taxes and dangerous work placements.

the criminal faction is in its element. there are no resources to help the ordinary decent people out there. overstretched and morale is at an all time low. frontline staff are struggling to put petrol into their car to travel for work so some doss in the locker rooms. can't afford their mortgages etc. those on the dole have more disposable income at this stage. if people don't open their eyes soon and continue to tar all public service workers with the same brush god help you if you need the guards, nurses, fire service and forget about the prison service because if you don't see it it ain't happening. shocking stuff thats happening but as long as everybody is cosy thats ok :mad:

Odysseus

christina_x wrote: »

I got spat on today, along with cursed right out of it (i'm in mental health) Would anybody arguing that our job isn't that hard put up with that, and then continue to try your best to reason with and work with this person in order to care for them? Doubtful.

See that's the thing, I experience a wide range of difficult behaviours too and I think must of us in other professions who experience that side of things are supportive of nurses.

However, just looking at this very difficult aspect of your work, misses the more complex areas of your profession.

apache

in fairness though liam doran seems to be a voice. maybe nurses will disagree? i don't know. don't know him personally. i see him in public forums voicing his concerns. i follow it closely. even the guards have the AGS. at least they are vocal but again its people with no clue of the situation who jump on the ill educated band wagon. if these people had even a little insight into whats going on it may improve things.

and then we have the prison service who are not allowed to have a vocal union rep. 2 officers in a yard of 50 scumbags. forgotten and left. jesus even the guards get bulletproof and stabproof vests. imagine dealing with a load of them in a confined space with no support!!!

this country is only run on the goodwill of its citizens and excuse me for feeling very strongly about this.

i think all frontline staff need to pull together at this time more than anytime else but unfortunately some of us are gagged.

its a disgraceful state of affairs and it always comes down to it that those who are not affected don't give a damn and jump on the bandwagon.

i worry for this country. i really do.

Galwayguy35

apache wrote: »

with this sad state of affairs (speaking as a frontline worker) the world has gone mad. frontline staff have no way out. working long hours, severely reduced pay, high taxes and dangerous work placements.

the criminal faction is in its element. there are no resources to help the ordinary decent people out there. overstretched and morale is at an all time low. frontline staff are struggling to put petrol into their car to travel for work so some doss in the locker rooms. can't afford their mortgages etc. those on the dole have more disposable income at this stage. if people don't open their eyes soon and continue to tar all public service workers with the same brush god help you if you need the guards, nurses, fire service and forget about the prison service because if you don't see it it ain't happening. shocking stuff thats happening but as long as everybody is cosy thats ok :mad:

See this is what is creating the divide between private and public workers.

Private sector workers also have mortgages, cars to run, a lot less job security and kids to put through school but you don't mention them at all.

There are very few people "cosy" in the the Ireland of 2013.

Also, ask any single person what life on the dole is like and how much disposable income they have and I think you might change your mind.

Boombastic

redtelephone wrote: »

You're mistaken there. The 22k is basic pay, and does not include shift pay. There is extra money paid for shift work. Even Liam Doran admitted that most nurses on a basic of 22k will earn between 25k or 26k after shift payments are taken into account, (a fact rarely mentioned when discussing this topic).

It's all in here: HSE Terms and Conditions of Employment:

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/HR/Terms_and_Conditions_of_Employment.pdf

This seems to go over most peoples heads.:(

Ken.

Speaking as a one time patient of Naas hospital I believe with all my heart that the HSE is upside down. The PR!CKS at the top should be on 22k a year and the nurses should be paid their body weight in gold per week. They do a sterling job and deserve so much more.

The last 20 years in Irish hospitals was summed up in 30 seconds by Dr.Kelso in "scrubs". The nurses threatened to strike and he retorted "they'd never strike,they love and care for the patients too much".

Conor Bourke

whenever wrote: »

The median starting salary for graduates in Dublin in 2011 was €22500, see
ahecs.ie/wp.../Salary-survey-2012-uploaded-sept-2012.pdf
so in a job market with only one significant employer maybe a 2year contract starting at €22000 is not bad?

Do you truly believe that you can compare like with like in this instance? The average graduate in, say business does not have to work 12 hour shifts, they don't work weekends, they don't work nights.

Boombastic wrote: »

This seems to go over most peoples heads.:(

As I said above, would you work the above shifts?

I enjoy my profession and I can't imagine doing anything else right now but if someone came to me and told me they were considering a career in nursing, I'd tell them to think long and hard about it.

I get screamed at by chancer visitors looking for morphine. I routinely get vomited/bled on. I spend a ridiculous amount of my working time quite literally up to my elbows in shite. I hold the hands of people as they take their last breaths. I comfort their grieving families. I lay out remains. I do probably 70 other random things in a day, alongside the routine nursing jobs. I sometimes take a step back and ask myself "who the hell would want to do this job?!"

I'm five years qualified and I'm making about the same as I was when I first registered. I'm undertaking my graduate diploma so that I can be better at my job, but I should have my increments taken away? In the private sector does ones capacity to earn not increase with their experience and additional education? Ah yeah, I forgot, my job satisfaction is pay enough sure.

Boombastic

Alaskimo-cake wrote: »

.........



As I said above, would you work the above shifts?

I enjoy my profession and I can't imagine doing anything else right now but if someone came to me and told me they were considering a career in nursing, I'd tell them to think long and hard about it.

I get screamed at by chancer visitors looking for morphine. I routinely get vomited/bled on. I spend a ridiculous amount of my working time quite literally up to my elbows in shite. I hold the hands of people as they take their last breaths. I comfort their grieving families. I lay out remains. I do probably 70 other random things in a day, alongside the routine nursing jobs. I sometimes take a step back and ask myself "who the hell would want to do this job?!"

I'm five years qualified and I'm making about the same as I was when I first registered. I'm undertaking my graduate diploma so that I can be better at my job, but I should have my increments taken away? In the private sector does ones capacity to earn not increase with their experience and additional education? Ah yeah, I forgot, my job satisfaction is pay enough sure.

Yes, I would work those shifts. Did you not realise you would be working with sick people when you decided to become a nurse? I think the bullying by the union to people who actually want these positions is terrible. Bring in the EU nurses to displace the ones that don't want these jobs.

Go get a job in the private sector if the public conditions don't suit you.

whenever

whenever wrote: »

The median starting salary for graduates in Dublin in 2011 was €22500, see
ahecs.ie/wp.../Salary-survey-2012-uploaded-sept-2012.pdf
so in a job market with only one significant employer maybe a 2year contract starting at €22000 is not bad?

Who cares what the median starting salary is and the fact that there is only one significant employer. Some jobs deserve higher starting pay than others and most rational people would agree that nursing is one of them.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

See this is what is creating the divide between private and public workers.

Private sector workers also have mortgages, cars to run, a lot less job security and kids to put through school but you don't mention them at all.

There are very few people "cosy" in the the Ireland of 2013.

Also, ask any single person what life on the dole is like and how much disposable income they have and I think you might change your mind.

On the other had I know a number of people doing very well for themselves in the private sector, getting pay increases, increased benefits recently etc (with less deductions from their pay than a public sector worker). A few in their mid 20's earning money that a nurse at management level with 30 years service wouldn't be on.

FTA69

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes, I would work those shifts. Did you not realise you would be working with sick people when you decided to become a nurse? I think the bullying by the union to people who actually want these positions is terrible. Bring in the EU nurses to displace the ones that don't want these jobs.

The union is trying to maintain an acceptable standard for those in the nursing profession, it's attempting to prevent the race to the bottom that's ongoing in all sectors of employment. It's also trying to prevent desperate young people being exploited. They're bang on.

Go get a job in the private sector if the public conditions don't suit you.

Again this attitude, "if you don't like being paid sh*t money for working in horrific conditions then lump it." And if every nurse took this position who would look after you when you eventually get sick? All nurses are looking for is an acknowledgement that their job is a very difficult one and that their wages are already quite low and are being threatened further.

Boombastic

FTA69 wrote: »

Boombastic wrote: »

The union is trying to maintain an acceptable standard for those in the nursing profession, it's attempting to prevent the race to the bottom that's ongoing in all sectors of employment. It's also trying to prevent desperate young people being exploited. They're bang on.



Again this attitude, "if you don't like being paid sh*t money for working in horrific conditions then lump it." And if every nurse took this position who would look after you when you eventually get sick? All nurses are looking for is an acknowledgement that their job is a very difficult one and that their wages are already quite low and are being threatened further.

It's not sh1t money when allowances are added in, get real


Who would look after me? The EU Nurses

FTA69

Boombastic wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

It's not sh1t money when allowances are added in, get real


Who would look after me? The EU Nurses

It is sh*t money for the job that it is. To be honest I don't think you have a clue about what the job entails if you can dismiss all the work that they do and the problems that they face with "sure didn't they know they'd be dealing with the sick?"

Boombastic

Boombastic wrote: »

It is sh*t money for the job that it is. To be honest I don't think you have a clue about what the job entails if you can dismiss all the work that they do and the problems that they face with "sure didn't they know they'd be dealing with the sick?"

Well that seems to be the main justification.....'I have to deal with sick people'...ffs:rolleyes:

FTA69

They deal with bereavement, drug and alcohol addiction, getting assaulted, getting verbally abused, get covered sh*t/p*ss/everything else, unsocial hours, severe dementia, do unpaid work etc.

You obviously have no idea what it is like to work in a busy ward.

Conor Bourke

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes, I would work those shifts. Did you not realise you would be working with sick people when you decided to become a nurse? I think the bullying by the union to people who actually want these positions is terrible. Bring in the EU nurses to displace the ones that don't want these jobs.

Go get a job in the private sector if the public conditions don't suit you.

Yeah, of course I knew. It's all I've wanted to do since I was about 6 years of age. I wanted to look after the sick, to provide them with the comfort and care they need but I didn't think I'd be doing it under such phenomenal pressure. I care about my patients and their families. It kills me when I can see they need time, they need just five minutes of my undivided attention but I can't give that because we're short staffed and my mind is on the patient I've just left alone on a toilet and the blood transfusion which is about to finish and the drug round which is due in ten minutes etc etc.

I actually DID go work in the private sector for a couple of years. The contract I was lucky to be hired on when I qualified, expired just as the embargo came into force and so i had no other choice. I got a fantastic job in the private sector, got some wonderful experience but ultimately I didn't get paid very much more than my HSE colleagues because I wasn't in a position to make commission/get bonuses. I chose to leave that role eventually because I missed clinical nursing. I knew what I was letting myself back in for, I'm not complaining about doing any of the tasks I listed, I'm just saying that most people would not do them for all the money in the world. On my worst days, while I do think "who would do this?" I also remind myself that this is what I chose. For now, for me, the good outweighs the bad, but only just. It's still better than my previous job, but it shouldn't be just "better than X".

Conor Bourke

Boombastic wrote: »

Well that seems to be the main justification.....'I have to deal with sick people'...ffs:rolleyes:

No, it's not "I have to deal with sick people", it's that we do heavy, hard, dirty work and we have enormous responsibility, under enormous pressure and with massive constraints on available resources.

Boombastic

Boombastic wrote: »

Well that seems to be the main justification.....'I have to deal with sick people'...ffs:rolleyes:

I don't understand people's inability to acknowledge that some jobs will have higher starting salaries and higher salaries in general than others. Thats the way the world works.

Just because a graduate in "x" industry starts on 22k is not a reason for a nurse to start on 22k. There are loads of graduates out there who start on plenty more than 22k also why not compare this with nursing? You wont have many Engineering, Physics or Pharma jobs etc with starting salaires less than 27 to 30k for instance and some are higher again.

Boombastic

FTA69 wrote: »

They deal with bereavement, drug and alcohol addiction, getting assaulted, getting verbally abused, get covered sh*t/p*ss/everything else, unsocial hours, severe dementia, do unpaid work etc.

You obviously have no idea what it is like to work in a busy ward.

What did you think they did?

Boombastic

Luka Handsome Fingertip wrote: »

I don't understand people's inability to acknowledge that some jobs will have higher starting salaries and higher salaries in general than others. Thats the way the world works.

Just because a graduate in "x" industry starts on 22k is not a reason for a nurse to start on 22k. There are loads of graduates out there who start on plenty more than 22k also why not compare this with nursing? You wont have many Engineering, Physics or Pharma jobs etc with starting salaires less than 27 to 30k for instance and some are higher again.

How much after allowances are added in? Anyway, it seems like a lot of 2011 and 2010 graduates are considering these positions now. I hope they get them.

FTA69

Boombastic wrote: »

What did you think they did?

What? No nurse is under any illusions about what the job entails. I imagine it would just wind them up when people like yourself think that getting paid buttonbs for dealing with such a workload is acceptable.

Boombastic

FTA69 wrote: »

What? No nurse is under any illusions about what the job entails. I imagine it would just wind them up when people like yourself think that getting paid buttonbs for dealing with such a workload is acceptable.

I see you dodged the question about allowances.