Nurses

mfitzy

mfitzy wrote: »

So? Their employer is not bankrupt unlike the Govt of Ireland. They are thus perfectly entitled to "escape unscathed"! You read like they should feel guilty or something that they work in the real world where their company has to make a profit/break even to pay their wages.

You cannot compare a government providing vital services to a business who are in existence to make profit. Most services provided by a government are always going to run at a substantial loss there is no other possibility.

At the end of the day the government are not going to go bust despite what some people think, things are better now than a year or two ago. They will get the money from somewhere in order to maintain the country, a business does not have the same leeway and ability to drum up funds from various different places that a government does.

road_high

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

So the general operative for a multinational is more deserving than a nurse at the moment!

Deserving? Just about sums up Nurses sense of entitlement really.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

They should take some of the large grants of the farming sector and give it to the nurses. At least they work.

I'm seriously backing nurses here but you just cannot touch the agri sector its too important to the country.

tayto lover

mfitzy wrote: »

So? Their employer is not bankrupt unlike the Govt of Ireland. They are thus perfectly entitled to "escape unscathed"! You read like they should feel guilty or something that they work in the real world where their company has to make a profit/break even to pay their wages.

So by you're way of reasoning if their employer is totally broke they should work for nothing :rolleyes:

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

They should take some of the large grants of the farming sector and give it to the nurses. At least they work.

Maybe they should but as the bulk of this money comes from the EU, I'm not sure what difference it would make, apart from lossing money from the economy.

(BTW, if you think I'm a farmer because of another thread you are way off the mark:pac:)


the union and Liam Doran who you hold so dear to your heart is really spending your union dues very effectively.

Irish Indo 23 Sept 2012
Another interesting case is the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO), which is headed by Liam Doran. The statements of the organisation reveal some incredible spending.

Last year, travel expenses for officers amounted to €257,322, while overseas expenses amounted separately to €49,674.

While Mr Doran refused to disclose his own salary, financial statements relating to staff costs show the average salary within the union is €64,000.

The hiring of hotel rooms in 2011 came to €5,886, the cost of changing the union's name from the INO to the INMO cost €3,754 in 2010. Taxis and couriers amounted to €16,000 and media training came to €22,000.

The cost of the annual delegate meeting really stands out, however. The get together cost a staggering €192,000, way above the cost for similar gatherings in other unions. It also spent €174,102 on a "professional development centre", €241,000 on office equipment and €8,573 on badges in 2010, the figures reveal

road_high

tayto lover wrote: »

So by you're way of reasoning if their employer is totally broke they should work for nothing :rolleyes:

No but the emplyer must/will cut their wages and numbers accordingly. Ala 2008/09 in the Private sector.

tayto lover

mfitzy wrote: »

ROFL

Lets transfer subsidies from a productive sector that accounts for most of our exports (€9 billion plus) to a non productive sector that exports nothing and produces no wealth. Any more genius ideas there?

Yes. Don't get sick.
Do you honestly believe that the nurses should generate a profit
ROLF twice at that.

speedboatchase

tayto lover wrote: »

So by you're way of reasoning if their employer is totally broke they should work for nothing :rolleyes:

They can work wherever they like. They're not owed anything and if the govt cannot pay them the wages they feel they deserve then they can try private sector options or pursue roles abroad.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Maybe they should but as the bulk of this money comes from the EU, I'm not sure what difference it would make, apart from lossing money from the economy.

(BTW, if you think I'm a farmer because of another thread you are way off the mark:pac:)


the union and Liam Doran who you hold so dear to your heart is really spending your union dues very effectively.

Irish Indo 23 Sept 2012
Another interesting case is the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO), which is headed by Liam Doran. The statements of the organisation reveal some incredible spending.

Last year, travel expenses for officers amounted to €257,322, while overseas expenses amounted separately to €49,674.

While Mr Doran refused to disclose his own salary, financial statements relating to staff costs show the average salary within the union is €64,000.

The hiring of hotel rooms in 2011 came to €5,886, the cost of changing the union's name from the INO to the INMO cost €3,754 in 2010. Taxis and couriers amounted to €16,000 and media training came to €22,000.

The cost of the annual delegate meeting really stands out, however. The get together cost a staggering €192,000, way above the cost for similar gatherings in other unions. It also spent €174,102 on a "professional development centre", €241,000 on office equipment and €8,573 on badges in 2010, the figures reveal

Wasted your time posting that. I'm not in his union, not even in Public Sector. But while you're on wastage you don't have to go any further than politicians expenses and junkets.
Also as Union leaders go at least Doran is doing his job and representing his nurses unlike a lot of them.

Miss Lockhart

mfitzy wrote: »

No but the emplyer must/will cut their wages and numbers accordingly. Ala 2008/09 in the Private sector.

Or they could increase the cost for an in-demand service to the user.

mountai

We all know that the health system is the Albatross around our necks, so, let our Political Masters lead from the front and implement the following.
1 / All Dail salaries to be brought into line with the AVERAGE wage in EU
2 / Ministerial pensions to be abolished and pensions for Politicians to be paid on retirement age (The same as the rest of us)
3 / Existing publically funded pensions to be withdrawn from All who benefited from Bail Outs
4 / No more Golden Handshakes.
5 / All Consultants salaries to be cut to the EU norm (180k down to 100k)
6 / All Senior PS managment to have salaries reduced by 30%
7 / Backroom staff in health service to be reduced to 10% (as in UK) instead of 40% as is .
8 / All Trade Union Leaders to have salaries reduced to 2 1/2 times average industrial wage.
9 / Restrictions on sacking in PS to be removed (in line with Private Sec)
10/ The Troika to be kept in place until the country is PROPERLY back on its feet.

BTW the present starting salary offered to the Nurses, is the same as the starting salary in the UK.

road_high

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Or they could increase the cost for an in-demand service to the user.

That's what they have been doing i.e. increased charges for A&E, health insurance and higher USC.

Miss Lockhart

mfitzy wrote: »

That's what they have been doing i.e. increased charges for A&E, health insurance and higher USC.

Well, if it's to be run as a capitalist profitable enterprise then they better keep increasing.

tayto lover

speedboatchase wrote: »

They can work wherever they like. They're not owed anything and if the govt cannot pay them the wages they feel they deserve then they can try private sector options or pursue roles abroad.

That seems to be exactly what they are doing. Fair play to them.
Meanwhile we have fcuk all nurses with all the retirements. Don't get sick.

Pappa Charlie

mfitzy wrote: »

Deserving? Just about sums up Nurses sense of entitlement really.

I'm sure many people like me who have seen relatives in the care of nurses when extremely ill would go much farther than saying "deserving". But I guess to you the fact that they are public sector workers blinds you to your predjuice!

road_high

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I'm sure many people like me who have seen relatives in the care of nurses when extremely ill would go much farther than saying "deserving". But I guess to you the fact that they are public sector workers blinds you to your predjuice!

Que the emotional blackmail.....Doing the job they are trained to do and paid for? The exchequer is not a bottomless pit.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

Wasted your time posting that. I'm not in his union, not even in Public Sector. But while you're on wastage you don't have to go any further than politicians expenses and junkets.
Also as Union leaders go at least Doran is doing his job and representing his nurses unlike a lot of them.

never said you were public sector...but you have been praising Doran in your previous posts. The money spent keeping these union officials in their luxugry comes from the nurses 'low' salary

Ah, now you've moved on to politicians and junkets..what about the farmers? - you had a great point to debate there:pac::pac:


Can anyone address these 2 questions?

What percentage of nurses would not be working shifts?
Where are nurses working on a Saturday night in A&E for 22,000?



Salary €22,000
Nurse management sub-structures – special allowance for weekends/public holidays €2976
Employed on duties in the following locations: Accident & Emergency Depts.... €1858


Total €26,834

not yet

Take a girl who leaves school at 16, no major educational qualifications, works in Dunnes stores on approx 23-24k inclusive of pay rise in Feb.No disrespect intended...........

Take a girl who does her leaving cert, Goes on to nursing college with no pay, sits numerous exams during this time, spends the first year on work experience to then be told, Yeah we want you to work nights-weekends-bank holidays-Christmas etc etc. Oh and you have to deal with death, grieving relatives, life-death situations, drunks, abusive people etc. and all for 22k. Which one seems the easier pay packet.

Derekmcauley7

mountai wrote: »

Derekmcauley7 wrote: »

Well lets look at what I said. --- In the 80s AIB were the first that I know of to bring a two tier system for hiring staff Fact . The country IS bankrupt Fact. Some people who are nurses presently working in the System have stated they support the deal and have advised graduates to take up the offer Fact. Short time contracts in the private sector seldom exceed six months, Fact. The choice to go on the Dole or emigrate is still there and others have also voiced support for this option Fact. The Troika have instructed the Government to drive down rates in the PS in this round of negotiations on Croke Park, and signs are they are going to, Fact. The world owes nobody a living, Fact .Now instead of calling me incoherent and awarding me 0 points , lets see some constructive points from YOU instead of the drivel you come out with.

People working in the system have advised them to take it up??? Ahh these people are not the ones being expected to work for 19 grand a year. It is an insult to expect anyone that has done a four years in college to work for that.

The government has spent a fortune training these people. Fact.
Most will leave the country and not come back. More money wasted. Fact.
If you're getting paid poorly you're less likely to care about your job. Fact

We need nurses in this country, if we pay them fück all (and 19 grand is fück all) we're going to get the worst staff available. Fact

I don't think 30 grand is a great wage. 26 grand is poor but 19 grand is insult and just above the minimum wage. Four years of working and studying to get a degree then to be expected work for that. Do you really think that's fair??? Honestly????



How can you condone the government cutting the wages of essential staff that are the lowest earners anyway??? Do you really not think the money could not from somewhere else??? I really hope you get sick maybe then you will understand why we need these people.

Boombastic

not yet wrote: »

Take a girl who leaves school at 16, no major educational qualifications, works in Dunnes stores on approx 23-24k inclusive of pay rise in Feb.No disrespect intended...........

Take a girl who does her leaving cert, Goes on to nursing college with no pay, sits numerous exams during this time, spends the first year on work experience to then be told, Yeah we want you to work nights-weekends-bank holidays-Christmas etc etc. Oh and you have to deal with death, grieving relatives, life-death situations, drunks, abusive people etc. and all for 22k. Which one seems the easier pay packet.

But it's not for €22,000 - that's just the line the unions are spinning you

tayto lover

mfitzy wrote: »

Que the emotional blackmail.....Doing the job they are trained to do and paid for? The exchequer is not a bottomless pit.

30 applications for 1,000 positions would indicate that they are not biting bottomless pit or not. They are voting with their feet and getting out of this Dictatorship and fair play to them.
Meanwhile we have a serious shortage of nurses.
Any other ideas?

road_high

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

You didnt star in dumb and dumber by any chance!

Disgraceful stuff. Just because I want accountability for my taxes and not money thrown at a sector I am insulted in that manner. Really displays what the govt is up against.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

never said you were public sector...but you have been praising Doran in your previous posts. The money spent keeping these union officials in their luxugry comes from the nurses 'low' salary

Ah, now you've moved on to politicians and junkets..what about the farmers? - you had a great point to debate there:pac::pac:


Can anyone address these 2 questions?

What percentage of nurses would not be working shifts?
Where are nurses working on a Saturday night in A&E for 22,000?



Salary €22,000
Nurse management sub-structures – special allowance for weekends/public holidays €2976
Employed on duties in the following locations: Accident & Emergency Depts.... €1858


Total €26,834

It's still poor money at 30k for shift work and the abuse they get from patients.
If you want to check my previous posts you will find i'm consistent with regards people who deserve good pay and those who don't :pac::pac:

road_high

tayto lover wrote: »

It's still poor money at 30k for shift work and the abuse they get from patients.
If you want to check my previous posts you will find i'm consistent with regards people who deserve good pay and those who don't :pac::pac:

Was this not self evident before they even started training? If nurses don't like the realities of their jobs and dealing with the public, why even go into the career in the first place

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

It's still poor money at 30k for shift work and the abuse they get from patients.
If you want to check my previous posts you will find i'm consistent with regards people who deserve good pay and those who don't :pac::pac:

What would you consider an appropriate starting wage for those fresh out of college?

tayto lover

mfitzy wrote: »

Was this not self evident before they even started training? If nurses don't like the realities of their jobs and dealing with the public, why even go into the career in the first place

So how are you going to fill the vacancies?

Pappa Charlie

mfitzy wrote: »

Disgraceful stuff. Just because I want accountability for my taxes and not money thrown at a sector I am insulted in that manner. Really displays what the govt is up against.

How do I know your paying tax for all I know you could be costing the state money, but what I do know is nurses deserve a fair wage, by the way I dont believe you starred in dumb and dumber! apologies

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

What would you consider an appropriate starting wage for those fresh out of college?

The one they would have got if they applied last year.

mountai

"I really hope you get sick maybe then you will understand why we need these people."

Well thank you for that Derekmcauley7 . Shows some level of mentality. At least I tried to put foreward some positve steps for consideration in trying to bring minds to bear on our present situation. May YOU have a long, prosperous and healthy life.!!!!!

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

So how are you going to fill the vacancies?

2011 & 2010 graduates seem to be showing more interests in the jobs. Jobs are also available for EU students to take.

I hope they are not feeling bullied from applying for these jobs by the unions:(

tayto lover wrote: »

The one they would have got if they applied last year.

Well maybe they should have applied last year. I think you'll find many 2011 graduates are still looking for jobs.