Nurses

FTA69 · 22-01-2013 3:14pm

mariaalice wrote: »

I was not being sarcastic at all, I thing the plan to pay graduate nurses 80% of first point on the salary scale is silly in the extream and showed up how bereft of new thinking the HSE is, they are going for an easy targed to save money insted of managing properly.

Sorry, I thought you were peddling the "go away to London if you don't like it" line. It really is a good city to advance your career. No picnic either though. Australia sounds like a handier number to be honest.

hi! · 22-01-2013 10:46pm

People saying nurses knew what they were getting themselves in for when they chose the profession.....they didn't know it would be for such a low wage.

Odysseus · 22-01-2013 10:58pm

hi! wrote: »

People saying nurses knew what they were getting themselves in for when they chose the profession.....they didn't know it would be for such a low wage.

Well to be fair, no matter how interested you are in a profession you never really know what it is like until you are in it.

People here seem to be happy to say that the abuse they encounter from patients is something that they should have been aware of prior to signing up. The nurses that used to be sent to me after an attack on a ward or in a clinic never knew the impact such an event could have on their ability to carry out their profession.

Having to put up with abuse is something no health care worker gets paid for.

road_high · 22-01-2013 11:10pm

hi! wrote: »

People saying nurses knew what they were getting themselves in for when they chose the profession.....they didn't know it would be for such a low wage.

Neither did the many thousands of construction and engineering professionals that lost their jobs and have had to emigrate. Life isn't always fair (or in this case, what nurses and their union percieve as fair).

osarusan · 23-01-2013 12:14am

mfitzy wrote: »

Neither did the many thousands of construction and engineering professionals that lost their jobs and have had to emigrate. Life isn't always fair (or in this case, what nurses and their union percieve as fair).

And this is the nub of your idiotic argument: "that because things sometimes aren't fair, they shouldn't be fair at all. Lots of people in the private sector have lost money, so let the nurses suffer too."

road_high · 23-01-2013 12:21am

osarusan wrote: »

And this is the nub of your idiotic argument: "that because things sometimes aren't fair, they shouldn't be fair at all. Lots of people in the private sector have lost money, so let the nurses suffer too."

LOL. You do realise we are borrowing billions and billions just to keep the show on the road here (i.e. pay PS wages)? That's seems pretty IDIOTIC to me as we are going to have this all back plus interest. Clearly a sensible and non-idoitic arrangement to your good self though.

tayto lover · 23-01-2013 12:26am

mfitzy wrote: »

LOL. You do realise we are borrowing billions and billions just to keep the show on the road here (i.e. pay PS wages)? That's seems pretty IDIOTIC to me as we are going to have this all back plus interest. Clearly a sensible and non-idoitic arrangement to your good self though.

Maybe if there were badly run down services and nobody to answer you're emergency calls if God forbid a loved one needed urgent help you would realise that your argument is very petty.
The Govt and other political parties don't seem to mind too much how badly things are run down. After all they can afford to go abroad for their medical treatment.
If we weren't paying other people's debts we would be in a better position but let's make sure the German gamblers are happy and to Hell with the sick and the nurses.

brianthomas · 23-01-2013 12:28am

When I seen the heading "NURSES" I ran in expecting something else. *slowly walks away*

Pappa Charlie · 23-01-2013 12:50am

mfitzy wrote: »

LOL. You do realise we are borrowing billions and billions just to keep the show on the road here (i.e. pay PS wages)? That's seems pretty IDIOTIC to me as we are going to have this all back plus interest. Clearly a sensible and non-idoitic arrangement to your good self though.

What do you think they are worth? What would you pay the following on entering the profession?

Nurses
Fire service personnel
Ambulance
Garda
Civil Engineer
Doctor
Minimum wage worker
Average sales rep
Middle management private sector

hi! · 23-01-2013 2:29am

Odysseus wrote: »

Well to be fair, no matter how interested you are in a profession you never really know what it is like until you are in it.

People here seem to be happy to say that the abuse they encounter from patients is something that they should have been aware of prior to signing up. The nurses that used to be sent to me after an attack on a ward or in a clinic never knew the impact such an event could have on their ability to carry out their profession.

Having to put up with abuse is something no health care worker gets paid for.

Totally agree with you.I'm a student nurse & starting to realise the reality. What I mean is most nurses didn't think the only option would be doing the job for €22,000

donkey balls · 23-01-2013 3:13am

About 2/3 years ago my self and a friend decided to train as a EMT one level down from Paramedic this included a sh*te load of studying both theory&practical,After that you did a placement on a ambulance for a week before sitting the final exams well all I can say is that week was an eye opener for both us.
Both of us would be tough enough lads but some of the things that we saw we could not do on a daily basis,People are always giving out about the sickness level within the HSE now considering young children& the old age are more susceptible to viruses why have a nurse come into work and to then spread what ever virus they have.
Some time ago I my self was in an A&E dept and the abuse that nurses&doctors got was unreal,Lets face it in the private sector which I work in no company will tolerate verbal abuse never mind physical/emotional abuse.
I also posted earlier in this thread about the amount of agency staff employed by the HSE has anyone including the govt not ask the question why are there so many agency nurses?
Could there be someone making a nice few bob by using the agencies all the time when in actual fact its cheaper in the long term to hire directly,Also with the EU agency worker directive that came in to place Dec2011 which means that an agency employee has to get paid the same rate of pay as a full time staff member.
Is the govt&HSE trying to get around this by using these new contracts so that the agency staff working at present will get paid what these new contracts are paying.
I know for a fact that a globally recognized company let a load of their staff go and brought in new contracts for staff taking up employment on less $$$ even though the company has made some good profits,As the saying goes peanuts=monkeys and I've seen it in certain parts of the industry I work in.
The last thing we need is people whether they be nurses/paramedics/fire services etc working for a crap wage and not being motivated in there job,Again I've seen it happen in the private sector were the employees don't give a flying f**k.

riclad · 23-01-2013 9:24pm

I think we need to pay staff in hospitals ,gardai ,ambulance staff good wages,as they are dealing with people at their most vunerable, in possibly emergency situations.
Look at the usa ,they pay teachers in public schools low wages, resulting in a low quality educational system.
But at least they are recruiting nurses , many gardai are retiring , garda
numbers are being cut.
A nurse was on joe duffy,said some nurses will take a 2 year contract
to get training and experience ,then work in the usa where wages for nurses are higher.
There,s something wrong with the hse,
there,s junior doctors,working 24hour, 36 hour shifts.That should not be necessary.How can you make complex technical decisions re patient care
after working 15 hours straight.
Under hse agreements drugs here are 2 or 3 times the price in other eu countrys.
This country owes billions,
a few hundred nurses pay, even if it was cut by 50 per cent won,t even
reduce our debt by 0.1 per cent.

not yet · 23-01-2013 9:42pm

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

What do you think they are worth? What would you pay the following on entering the profession?

Nurses
Fire service personnel
Ambulance
Garda
Civil Engineer
Doctor
Minimum wage worker
Average sales rep
Middle management private sector

Nothing...don't you know we are broke, we are borrowing billions and billions just to pay PS workers.

The nasty vile sentiment towards average PS workers is sickening in the extreme. I'm fcuking sick to death of the same nasty cnuts who made big money in the boom now looking at the nurse or fireman thinking....cut their wage it's their fault we are in this mess Oh and ''don't you know your employer is broke'' gets me every time.

the deftone · 24-01-2013 4:31am

So apart from everyone arguing the point, what do people think will actually happen? Regardless of your views on the situation, how do you see it all playing out?

speedboatchase · 24-01-2013 7:13am

not yet wrote: »

Nothing...don't you know we are broke, we are borrowing billions and billions just to pay PS workers.

The nasty vile sentiment towards average PS workers is sickening in the extreme. I'm fcuking sick to death of the same nasty cnuts who made big money in the boom now looking at the nurse or fireman thinking....cut their wage it's their fault we are in this mess Oh and ''don't you know your employer is broke'' gets me every time.

1. I didn't make "big money" in the boom, I was in school and then college. There are different perspectives between people who disagree with you and many of us entered the full time workforce post-Celtic Tiger.

2. Who has said "it's their fault we are in this mess"? I haven't.

3. Your employer IS broke. I'm sorry if that's "gets you every time" but it's the fact of the matter. How can there not be cutbacks in the situation the country is in?

@thedeftone - I think the govt has to hold the line with this one or else it sets a precedent if they want to target graduates from different PS sectors afterwards.

Galwayguy35 · 24-01-2013 7:14am

not yet wrote: »

Nothing...don't you know we are broke, we are borrowing billions and billions just to pay PS workers.

The nasty vile sentiment towards average PS workers is sickening in the extreme. I'm fcuking sick to death of the same nasty cnuts who made big money in the boom now looking at the nurse or fireman thinking....cut their wage it's their fault we are in this mess Oh and ''don't you know your employer is broke'' gets me every time.

But their employer is broke.

The only way the Gov can raise more money is to tax every worker in the country even more.

Odysseus · 24-01-2013 10:19am

the deftone wrote: »

So apart from everyone arguing the point, what do people think will actually happen? Regardless of your views on the situation, how do you see it all playing out?

I have been saying this from day one, I coud be wrong however, I reay doubt I will ever see one of this nurses in my cinic.

I don't think people will take the positions, and the HSE will back down. Time will tell.

Odysseus · 24-01-2013 10:21am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

But their employer is broke.

The only way the Gov can raise more money is to tax every worker in the country even more.

Any idea how much of a tax increase would be needed to pay for these nurses?

tayto lover · 24-01-2013 5:48pm

The only people who are doing well in this God forsaken country are the politicians, ex-politicians who are now directors in the failed banks, the people at the head of the banks and the bondholders.

I would like to see a General Strike to bring the whole charade down and maybe then we could start again and get it right. Will we ever see any of the FF Government in court?

squod · 24-01-2013 7:13pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I would like to see a General Strike to bring the whole charade down and maybe then we could start again and get it right. Will we ever see any of the FF Government in court?

If we do they'll probably have to face Paul ''Justice'' Carney. :mad:

Pappa Charlie · 24-01-2013 8:33pm

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

What do you think they are worth? What would you pay the following on entering the profession?

Nurses
Fire service personnel
Ambulance
Garda
Civil Engineer
Doctor
Minimum wage worker
Average sales rep
Middle management private sector

Ah! Come on mfitzy

tayto lover · 24-01-2013 9:29pm

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Ah! Come on mfitzy

It's easier for her to tell you what they're not worth.;)

Pappa Charlie · 25-01-2013 12:27am

tayto lover wrote: »

It's easier for her to tell you what they're not worth.;)

I found her in the Irish economy forum lambasting the public sector on Croke park! She'll surely be here soon!

donkey balls · 25-01-2013 12:35am

As someone who has done agency work in the past and from what I heard from the manager were I was placed at,His company paid approx 40/50% of my hourly rate to the agency which would add up to approx €400/500 a week in a fee not including Vat.

Odysseus · 25-01-2013 1:31pm

I honestly don't know. I just got an e-mail stating the the HSE is looking for a new Chief Finanical Officer. Fair enough and I agree that people should be paid a fair wage for the job they do. However, we are stating that we can't afford to pay Nurses the agreed rate and this post is offering a wage of 172,495; I just can't agree with that.

tayto lover · 25-01-2013 2:58pm

Odysseus wrote: »

I honestly don't know. I just got an e-mail stating the the HSE is looking for a new Chief Finanical Officer. Fair enough and I agree that people should be paid a fair wage for the job they do. However, we are stating that we can't afford to pay Nurses the agreed rate and this post is offering a wage of 172,495; I just can't agree with that.

They will tell you that they are getting that in the Private Sector. And they're right.

Boombastic · 25-01-2013 3:06pm

tayto lover wrote: »

They will tell you that they are getting that in the Private Sector. And they're right.

How are they right? What private sector position are you comparing it to?

Here's the NHS rates for same position

Pay Range for
Chief Finance
Officer
Level 3 Population at or over 500k £95 - £110k
Level 2 Population between 150k – 499k £85 – £95k
Level 1 Population at 149k or below £75 – £85k

Exchange rate : €172495= £146955

The irish counterparts are being more.

Brussels Sprout · 02-02-2013 6:15pm

The deadline has been extended indefinitely now after a pathetic take-up of the scheme. The problem that the HSE has is that they've realised that they can't simply bully the grads into taking the positions but they can't be seen to back down either so they're between a rock and a hard place.

Nurses have overwhelmingly boycotted a schemeto recruit 1,000 new nurses into our hospitals. It was personally humiliating for the minister, who championed the scheem and promised that the jobs would be easily filled.

In fact, only 80 young people applied for the 1,000 posts, despite the fact that 1,200, or 75pc of newly qualified nurses, are forced to emigrate each year.

The deadline for applying to the scheme, which had been fanfared by Dr Reilly as an opportunity for young nurses, passed yesterday with minimal take-up.

But the response was so poor that the Health Service Executive actually refused to disclose exactly how many applications it had received.

Sources suggested that as few as 40 had applied for the so-called "yellow pack" posts. Dr Reilly insisted it was "more than double that" but it would still put the take-up at about 80, or less than 10pc.

The HSE has now been forced to scrap any further deadlines for applications and instead opt for an open-ended recruitment process in a desperate last-ditch attempt to entice interest.

source

mikom · 02-02-2013 6:43pm

The Indo via Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Nurses have overwhelmingly boycotted a schemeto recruit 1,000 new nurses into our hospitals. It was personally humiliating for the minister, who championed the scheem and promised that the jobs would be easily filled.

The subeditor at the indo was probably on 20pc less as well.
At least only a few words got mangled............ it not like someones life or health......

speedboatchase · 02-02-2013 6:44pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

The deadline has been extended indefinitely now after a pathetic take-up of the scheme. The problem that the HSE has is that they've realised that they can't simply bully the grads into taking the positions but they can't be seen to back down either so they're between a rock and a hard place.

source

Two people wrote that article and neither of them could spell 'scheme' correctly?!

Nurses

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