Nurses

token101

swimming in a sea wrote: »

So easy to say Irish nurses should be just grateful for a job but you have to remember the whole world is a market place, if Ireland does not pay the money it will lose out on the best nurses.

Well to be honest, I'd rather not lose out! I'd rather give them what they want and actually get someone decent to stitch me up rather than some disinterested mutt who couldn't patch a ****ing tyre. Just looked at teachers starting salaries from the INTO, they get 30k starting, plus allowances. That's according to the INTO site, unless it's been changed recently, I'm open to be corrected on the figures. Are entry level teachers really getting more than entry level nurses? Do nurses get allowances (outside of uniform allowances, ****ing McDonalds give you a uniform)? Because surely someone who works weekend night shifts in A&E deserves more allowances than someone who has gone back to back to college to study more Irish?

hatrickpatrick

ITT: Because injustice happens in other places, it's ok if it happens here.
We should be trying to stop this crap happening in the private sector instead of the other way around. Equal pay for equal work is not in any way an unreasonable demand.

mikemac1

The indo article about psychiatric nursing is in line with most of this thread

But one moment they talk about 10.50 an hour and next it's 90 per hour

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/1000-new-nurses-get-22000-pay-offer-to-stay-in-country-3324047.html

Commenting on the move, Seamus Murphy of the Psychiatric Nurses Association (PNA) said last night the salary would amount to around €10.50 an hour.

"These nurses have a degree after studying for four years but they would earn more working in Aldi," he said.

Sunday and bank holiday pay rates would amount to around €90 an hour for the graduates.

Do graduates get 90 euro per hour? :eek:
You could clear a monthly mortgage payment in one shift

Some jump from 10.50!


Or am I am a fool and I've completely misread this

twoblue

i had a big rant on some points but maybe a good thing my page timed out! anyway,..i dont think nurses wages should be cut! i dont thinks gardai should be cut either. at the end of the day if ya hack away at public servants pay, ya only hack away at the quality of public service! the have already cut pay for interns to 50% way less than min wage. now they are going again with start off point! when are they going to stop? while others in government sit with wads of money and expenses & allowances...its about fairness!

twoblue

HA definately not 90 an hour.

Galwayguy35

Reoil wrote: »

I read as many of the ****-up replies to this thread as I could before replying, which was not many.
OP, you couldn't handle being a nurse. The long hours, the patients, the emotional stress (huge), queues of people who think they owe you something for nothing, the thankless work.
**** up. Tell you what - volunteer for a few weeks. My mother (ex-nurse) in her 70s from West Meath volunteers at my local hospital in the North for nothing. It's not about the money. To you it is.

Nurses owe you nothing.

Just wait until the day that they feed you, collect your s**t (not this s**t, your litteral s**t), and then wash you afterwards. Maybe then you'll understand.

F**k you.

Is it not the nurses aides that clean the patients?

Galwayguy35

I agree nurses ofton don't have it easy, I burnt my hand and went to A&E a few months ago and the amount of drunk and abusive assholes they had to deal with was unreal.

But I think they are shooting themselves in the foot here, get the 2 years experience and with that under their belt then look for work abroad if they still want to.

twoblue

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Is it not the nurses aides that clean the patients?

nope, care assiatants do too when they available, but nurses do most of it in hospitals my experience.

Galwayguy35

twoblue wrote: »

nope, care assiatants do too when they available, but nurses do most of it in hospitals my experience.

Ok, I remember when my old man was sick years ago the nurses did all that kind of thing, thought it was different now but thanks for clarifying.

corktina

I'd accept this if it was the case that the HSE were doing the same with it's managers....which they aren't.

I heard today of an 80 yr old woman in a nursing home, awaiting a hip replacement so long that she can no longer walk and has morphine patches in place AND YET she hasn't even got a date to see the Consultant yet... probably will die before she gets an op.

Yes the HSE need to save money but equally they need to spend what money they have on cases like this and on front-line staff instead of all the waste that goes on.

alibab

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Is it not the nurses aides that clean the patients?

No it's not its the nurses . To be honest I would just love to see some bloody staff at this stage . Since retirements and the ban on hiring staff plus sick leave and mat leave not being covered the health service is on its knees . I can't remember the last time I went in for a shift that was fully covered with adequate staff levels which is compromising patient care big time .

The general public have no idea how bad it actually is and how dangerous it is also . We need more nurses full stop how they are hired or paid I don't really care about . There is a ban on the hiring of agency staff where I work so if someone goes sick you are screwed . If I had a relative in a hospital in Ireland at the minute I would have to stay with them to make sure they are being looked after . This is no reflection on the nurses they just can't cope with the sheer volume of work with the situation they are in at the minute . I won't mention the constant abuse both verbally and physically that nurses put up with .

I am sure they will fill theses positions with graduates who are willing to do it for the new rates . Not every one can head off to Australia or the like they will have commitments here be in a family etc . Lots of mature students doing nursing now with families . Do I agree with the new rates I am sitting on the fence on that , a newly qualified nurse in Ireland at this time when they arrive on a ward still needs mentoring and direction and it takes experience to learn adequate skills . A lot of skill in nursing only comes with time and experience .

I did nursing the good old fashioned way in Ireland when it was learnt on the wards pre university . I of course went back to do my degree and higher diplomas . What I can say under this system is that the wards were teeming with staff . Patient care was at a optimum as nurses had time to give patients . Of course we had to evolve and move with the times and I am not knocking that but what we really need now are highly skilled staff on the wards in adequate numbers providing patient care end of .

sbsquarepants

mountai wrote: »

Welcome to the real world. The practice of hiring in staff at rates below existing workers has been going on in the private sector for years. Yes it is a way of driving down costs and when your employer is bankrupt, whats wrong with that?. IMHO you have been offered a mighty deal , Two years contract . In the private sector, the average time is 6 months. Go on the dole if you dont like it , or emigrate.When the Croke Park agreement runs out just watch the disgraceful pay rates tumble, that is assuming of course the negotiators (on behalf of Us -- the hard pressed private sector workers} show some moral courage and backbone . Remember , the world does NOT owe you a living so get on with it and stop whinging.

There's your problem right there - starting hitting the ridiculous, guaranteed and ever increasing wage deals is starting to get a bit close to home for our fearless leaders.
I know nurses in general work long shifts and what not but so the fúck what, i have two nurses in my family and they both have cushy numbers and no mistake about it. It's not the easiest job in the world and the hours can sometimes be unsocial and the work unpleasant, but so can working in KFC! Outside of cloud cuckoo public service land most people end up doing things they don't particularly love in order to pay their bills - it's called reality.

sbsquarepants

corktina wrote: »

I'd accept this if it was the case that the HSE were doing the same with it's managers....which they aren't.
.

Isn't there some crazy statistic like one in every 10 people in the hse is in management or something like that?
I can't recall the numbers but i remember thinking it was crazy when i heard it on the radio. Does anyone know the correct number?

Odysseus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Isn't there some crazy statistic like one in every 10 people in the hse is in management or something like that?
I can't recall the numbers but i remember thinking it was crazy when i heard it on the radio. Does anyone know the correct number?

I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.

smilerxxx

It's lovely to see that some people support us, I'm not expecting a good wage but I would like to be able to pay my mortgage. It's soul destroying to think that some people don't see the hard work and think that we're an expense that can be done without.

And for those just recently qualified, shame on you for the lack of support. I worked 10 years before returning to nursing and earned great money and that great money supported your training, not only was I happy about that I was grateful because I needed ye many times.

When your arriving late at night to a relative who is passing just remember what that nurse has done for your loved one.

Stepping Stone

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Is it not the nurses aides that clean the patients?

Not in Tralee. Apparently 'the girls are too busy to wash people' so you have to wait for relatives to do it. Not joking, that was the managers response on the radio to complaints that people weren't being washed at all. He also asked people to stop complaining publicly.

I think we all know that it should start at the top, but unions have it all sewn up so only the young get screwed. I don't think that nurses have it easy, but this isn't the worst suggestion. At least they will have the opportunity to get experience while getting some pay.

The culture of over paying the top and older ones won't end anytime soon unfortunately, so someone will have to take the hit.

davet82

It amazes me that there is so much more uproar about nurses wanting equal pay to their counterparts than lets say AIB topping up their pension fund with 1.1 billion of taxpayers money...

we're a strange bunch

smilerxxx

How about actually hiring us at the starting salary and maybe keep it at that salary for 2 years. The hidden agenda is to reduce the extortionate cost of paying for agency nurses, the huge agency bills would not exist if they just bloody hired nurses directly. The agency should not receive the same rate as the nurse, the agency should have had a 20% fee or even 10% it got completely out of hand.

upstairs for coffee

What an abomination of a thread.

Without nurses the already screwed up hospital system would collapse.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

mountai wrote: »

the world does NOT owe you a living so get on with it and stop whinging.

I think it's pretty fresh of people to come out with sh!t like this, nurses are very highly skilled workers, very highly educated. By the time they've been hired into fulltime employment they have already completed 2 years of on the job training / work.

Yet time and time again they're unfairly fúcked over by this government and people tell them to stop whinging... Unbelievable.

Why not target consultants wages? Why not tackle administration wages?
Do people realise if nurses were treated better, encouraged to become Advanced Nursing Practitioners they could replace a good majority of the doctors required in a hospital and thus save the hospital a fortune..?

But sure lets just stick our fingers in our ears and play alone... Why not close hospitals, A&E's after unsocial hours and stop paying nurses to work nights? Why do we need hospitals at all..?

mountai

I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.
I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.
I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.


Strange that you dont have those figures Odysseus - I"ll try to enlighten you. NHS 9% support and managment . HSE 40 YES 40% support and managment for frontline staff. Therin lies the problem. Now I have been warned for being "uncivil" to Reoil. ERMMM AM i MISSING SOMETHING HERE ???? Can someone PLEASE explain how was I uncivil, I"d sure love to know.

Odysseus

mountai wrote: »

I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.
I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.
I do not know what there figure is, but I would say it is higher that 1 in 10.


Strange that you dont have those figures Odysseus - I"ll try to enlighten you. NHS 9% support and managment . HSE 40 YES 40% support and managment for frontline staff. Therin lies the problem. Now I have been warned for being "uncivil" to Reoil. ERMMM AM i MISSING SOMETHING HERE ???? Can someone PLEASE explain how was I uncivil, I"d sure love to know.

Sorry what is you point? Please expand? I did not pick that number another poster stated he thought that was the correct figure, I stated that I think it is higher. So again what is your point?

smilerxxx

Currently I am in third year, in January I hit the wards for 17 weeks. I don't get paid so as well as the 35 hours on the ward (students just do 35 not 37.5) I also work 20 hours to earn money. I love it and I'm not complaining about the unpaid placement. But is it really selfish of me to think that after my four years I can at least afford to pay my bills?
My partner is also a nurse, he nurses dying children. He works so hard, I know his heart breaks for them but he is amazing he earns 26k and has been qualified quite a while. We can live on that money but please don't take anymore.

Clarehobo

To be honest, I had a look at the Grad Ireland Survey and it looks like the nurses' current starting salary (€26,400) is in line with median starting salaries for graduates.

The median starting salary for a graduate in 2011 was €24,000–€25,999, and this is unchanged in our 2012 survey

Considering the responsibility and crap they take on in comparison to normal run of the mill grads and the work experience they have under their belts(way more than normal grads), I think that €26,400 is a bargain.

Cut out the unnecessary higher level and middle management in the HSE - that will save the money they need to save.

handlemaster

the problem here is that the Nurse that qualify already have the public sector attitude that they should be guaranteed a job. The union coming out and complaining about 'potential workers' is a measure of the interest they have in new members. Its all about get the 'subs' up.

The salary is X if you don't like it do somthing else or leave the country for greener pastures. Thats what everyone in the private sector does.

I see mentioned in previous posts (Nurses are highly trained, could save your life some day etc etc ). Thats the job. No one is forced to do that job. If you don't like it do something else. There are countless people in all sectors that have trained hard and scraficed to be where they are.

I personally think this job is a tough one, the work most nurses do has to be applaued. I won't want to do it myself. That is why I have choosen a different path in life. Then again someone who works as a nurse probably won't want to do what I do. Thats life. At least with nursing the salary scale , security of employment is laid out.

Rasheed

smilerxxx wrote: »

How about actually hiring us at the starting salary and maybe keep it at that salary for 2 years. The hidden agenda is to reduce the extortionate cost of paying for agency nurses, the huge agency bills would not exist if they just bloody hired nurses directly. The agency should not receive the same rate as the nurse, the agency should have had a 20% fee or even 10% it got completely out of hand.

Yeah the agency charges are ridiculous. When they slashed their rates to nurses by about 30% in February 2011, they never took a cut in their own rates to the HSE.

There was a six month period that I worked on a long stay ward with 23 very dependant patients. I would be left on my own from 2 til 8 with three care assistants and a domestic staff or myself and and a care assistant at night.

Every single person working with me on that ward was being paid more than me, even though I was in charge.

And if I got sick or pregnant, I would be left high and dry.

I get that newly grads are angry about having to work just as hard as the next nurse who's getting at least 20% more, it's a sickener, but I genuinely loved to have been offered that.

smilerxxx

Nobody said we should be guaranteed jobs. NOBODY! We should have to apply for what's available and may the best man win.

The thing is handlemaster, we don't want applause. We just want to be paid accordingly.

smilerxxx

Rasheed wrote: »

Yeah the agency charges are ridiculous. When they slashed their rates to nurses by about 30% in February 2011, they never took a cut in their own rates to the HSE.

There was a six month period that I worked on a long stay ward with 23 very dependant patients. I would be left on my own from 2 til 8 with three care assistants and a domestic staff or myself and and a care assistant at night.

Every single person working with me on that ward was being paid more than me, even though I was in charge.

And if I got sick or pregnant, I would be left high and dry.

I get that newly grads are angry about having to work just as hard as the next nurse who's getting at least 20% more, it's a sickener, but I genuinely loved to have been offered that.

With all due respect rasheed, you can say that in hindsight but when faced with reality it's very different. If you do get pregnant how would you pay for childcare with 2 nurses on days and nights both earning sweet fanny Adams

Pumpkinseeds

It is ridiculous for a new recruit in any profession, to expect to receive the same salary at the beginning of their career as an experienced colleague. I was disgusted to see nurses on the news last night saying that they can't afford to work for that salary and won't emigrate. So what's the alternative? You've received grant money from the public and are going to sit on your arse next year out of sheer bloody mindedness and some misguided sense of entitlement.

Some other poster asked if we would prefer to be nursed by a happy nurse or a disgruntled one. I would prefer to be nursed by someone with a professional approach to their job. I've spent a lot of time as a patient on surgical wards and I've met some fantastic nurses and some whom have made me seriously question their suitability for being in the nursing profession.

Take the money and be grateful to have a 2 year contract in a full-time paid job or don't the choice is yours. There are many unemployed people who would be delighted to be offered the opportunity you're being given. The hard done by attitude displayed on the news last night was disgraceful.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Clarehobo wrote: »

Cut out the unnecessary higher level and middle management in the HSE - that will save the money they need to save.

I think every one agrees with that - however I don't see it happening.

What I do see happening is the management levels being ignored and the wages of nurses being targeted continually.

Edit: I'd also like to see the figures for unskilled staff versus the nursing staff. Administrators, care assistants, security, etc... It would give you a good idea as to how a highly skilled nurse is paid in relation to a relatively unskilled (no college Hons. Degree necessary position).