Nurses

Rasheed

smilerxxx wrote: »

Ya this is brilliant, And honestly if the government could be trusted I'd be seriously thinking this is great. But where will be after 2 years. Out on our ear I reckon. I can't emigrate unfortunately, getting on and a lot of commitments

And I seriously feel for you there. At first I didn't want to emigrate and now I can't because of family and health.

God knows what'll happen after two years but, the way I'd be looking at it is, you'd have two years experience and hopefully the recruitment band would have lifted. Or at least eased.

You just don't know but I hope it's goes ok for you!

smilerxxx

Good post, I have to earn my stripes and The nurses currently promised positions should absolutely be hired before me. It's unfair for them to be pushed out for NQ nurses. I support this 100%

Yes the vat makes no sense whatsoever

handlemaster

smilerxxx wrote: »

Your not answering the question, first of all of course a nurses care will NOT be any less, but do you honestly, hand on your heart honestly think it's fair?

If you do, I can't say much more to be honest.

Maybe its a more accurate salary for starter level and that other nurses are over paid. Life isn't fair. But having a guaranteed / secure income is not to be sniffed at.

mariaalice

There being taken advantage of but what can they do the HSE has all the power and they know it.

It a sneaky but well thought out plan the management in the HSE know they need the staff and because of the recuritment embargo most of the staff are comeing through agency, they have looked at this and have come up with a plan to get staff with out using costley agency or paying staff full rates of pay.
Its going to effect agency staff if they manage to recruit enought staff.

If I was a newley qualifed nurse I would take the job and make sure I get the expierence in the area I want they leave and go somewhere else and get very well paid, a years work expierence is enought don't do the two years, if your employers are going to use you why not use them to get the experience you need to get a well paid job abroad.

smilerxxx

handlemaster wrote: »

Maybe its a more accurate salary for starter level and that other nurses are over paid. Life isn't fair. But having a guaranteed / secure income is not to be sniffed at.

For the 2 years absolutely, a secure income would be great. I'm worried about the aftermath, You could have a serious turnaround of nurses every 2 years with no opportunity to become highly skilled. It will take me quite a while to become highly skilled in the area I'm training, and we need those nurses more than me

mountai

Just a little reminder. The last time a group of Public Service went on strike, the public back lash was unbelievable . Teachers were Booed back into the classrooms., Personally, I dont agree with this "Contract" concept in employment. My Son, who has been employed in this capacity for 2 six month periods, was laid off yesterday, because , to offer him a third ,would have meant giving him rights. Its Shi**ty ,but its life. Whoever said life is fair. This is the reality of the Private sector. Why should the Public sector look for special treatment?? The backlash should be against Our Lords and Masters in Kildare St , who continue to pay themselves outlandish salaries and pensions. BTW I wonder what the Lauded MR Dorans salary is. Just like most of his ilk. When are the Union Leaders going to come back to reality and live on NORMAL wages. Jim Connolly would be spinning in his grave to witness the likes of them

handlemaster

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/big-salaries-and-pensions-of-union-bosses-uncovered-3237083.html

Snippet from report

Another interesting case is the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO), which is headed by Liam Doran. The statements of the organisation reveal some incredible spending.

Last year, travel expenses for officers amounted to €257,322, while overseas expenses amounted separately to €49,674.

While Mr Doran refused to disclose his own salary, financial statements relating to staff costs show the average salary within the union is €64,000.

mountai

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/big-salaries-and-pensions-of-union-bosses-uncovered-3237083.html

Snippet from report

Another interesting case is the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO), which is headed by Liam Doran. The statements of the organisation reveal some incredible spending.

Last year, travel expenses for officers amounted to €257,322, while overseas expenses amounted separately to €49,674.

While Mr Doran refused to disclose his own salary, financial statements relating to staff costs show the average salary within the union is €64,000.

Says it all doesnt it.

Luca Brasi

What has Matron got to say about this? ooooooh!

Odysseus

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/big-salaries-and-pensions-of-union-bosses-uncovered-3237083.html

Snippet from report

Another interesting case is the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO), which is headed by Liam Doran. The statements of the organisation reveal some incredible spending.

Last year, travel expenses for officers amounted to €257,322, while overseas expenses amounted separately to €49,674.

While Mr Doran refused to disclose his own salary, financial statements relating to staff costs show the average salary within the union is €64,000.

What is your point with the cut and paste?

handlemaster

Cut and paste is very handy when your in a hurry. Very easy to do.
Someone asked about Mr Dorans Salary.

mountai

Odysseus, I see you are a moderator. Is it possible you could throw some light on the issue of me being censured for answering a post . Please and thank you.

FTA69

My girlfriend is a nurse who qualified last year and she now works in an NHS hospital here in the UK. While working at home she got knocked out while dealing with an elderly man with severe dementia i.e. punched clean in the jaw and was completely unconscious. They sent her off down to A and E and they then had the temerity to send her a bill a few weeks afterward in the post. That's the type of administration you're dealing with, but one small example.

You are working on an unpaid basis constantly in many wards in many hospitals, forced to stay behind for an hour to do a handover or complete writing that you couldn't do because you are so chronically understaffed. And because you are so chronically understaffed you are then faced with the frustrating situation of not being able to provide the care you want to because you're running around like a maniac. Throughout the course of a twelve hour shift sometimes you may be lucky to snatch a ten minute break to wolf down a bit of crap food. You are often faced with a string of night shifts, or a string of unsocial hours including weekends and holiday periods that the vast majority of other industries don't have.

You are dealing with horrific sights on a daily basis. People with severe drug problems, people with severe psychiatric problems, bereavment, violence etc. On top of this you frequently have to deal with abuse from patients or their families who feel the need to scream and roar at you personally because of the wider problems of the NHS/HSE. On top of the massive workload dumped on top of you, you also have to keep meticulous records and will be hauled over the coals for the smallest discrepancy with no sympathy that you've been left with 12 extremely sick patients to deal with, alone, at the end of a 12 hour night shift.

Probably the biggest problem of being a nurse is the shower of eejits, who haven't the slightest clue what it's like to work in these conditions telling you that your job is overvalued and overpaid and that you should emigrate. Why anyone would want to be a nurse, work the above conditions and then be villified by puffed-up, pontificating clowns is beyond me.

alibab

Rasheed wrote: »

Yeah the agency charges are ridiculous. When they slashed their rates to nurses by about 30% in February 2011, they never took a cut in their own rates to the HSE.

There was a six month period that I worked on a long stay ward with 23 very dependant patients. I would be left on my own from 2 til 8 with three care assistants and a domestic staff or myself and and a care assistant at night.

Every single person working with me on that ward was being paid more than me, even though I was in charge.

And if I got sick or pregnant, I would be left high and dry.

I get that newly grads are angry about having to work just as hard as the next nurse who's getting at least 20% more, it's a sickener, but I genuinely loved to have been offered that.

I am sorry to say this Rashead but you were positively spoilt . I work a similar area and if I had one nurse and 3 care assistant plus domestic staff from 2 till 8 I would think all my Christmases had come at once . Try doing that one nurse and one carer plus one domestic with more patients . Your patient to staff ratio is not bad there at all . It's all relative you think that is bad I think that is exceptional . But I work with exceptional care assistants and would be delighted to have 3 of them on a 2 to 8 . That's 4 staff to 23 patients very good numbers .

Galwayguy35

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

What makes you think these contracts will be renewed?

What makes you think they won't just hire another new batch of newly qualified nurses at 80% of the going rate and then ditch them at the end of their contracts too..?

Welcome to Ireland 2012, in the private sector very few are getting permanent contracts now and can be let go on the whim of an employer, the difference is that when these jobs become available the people looking for these jobs don't go on the news and say they won't take them, they snap up these jobs as it gives much needed experience.

big_joe_joyce

mountai wrote: »

Just a little reminder. The last time a group of Public Service went on strike, the public back lash was unbelievable . Teachers were Booed back into the classrooms., Personally, I dont agree with this "Contract" concept in employment. My Son, who has been employed in this capacity for 2 six month periods, was laid off yesterday, because , to offer him a third ,would have meant giving him rights. Its Shi**ty ,but its life. Whoever said life is fair. This is the reality of the Private sector. Why should the Public sector look for special treatment?? The backlash should be against Our Lords and Masters in Kildare St , who continue to pay themselves outlandish salaries and pensions. BTW I wonder what the Lauded MR Dorans salary is. Just like most of his ilk. When are the Union Leaders going to come back to reality and live on NORMAL wages. Jim Connolly would be spinning in his grave to witness the likes of them

yes but nurses occupy a uniquely special place in irish peoples hearts , they really are held in very high esteem , going back a century , irish women have become nurses the world over , nurses would be sure of wide support , were they to strike

big_joe_joyce

FTA69 wrote: »

My girlfriend is a nurse who qualified last year and she now works in an NHS hospital here in the UK. While working at home she got knocked out while dealing with an elderly man with severe dementia i.e. punched clean in the jaw and was completely unconscious. They sent her off down to A and E and they then had the temerity to send her a bill a few weeks afterward in the post. That's the type of administration you're dealing with, but one small example.

You are working on an unpaid basis constantly in many wards in many hospitals, forced to stay behind for an hour to do a handover or complete writing that you couldn't do because you are so chronically understaffed. And because you are so chronically understaffed you are then faced with the frustrating situation of not being able to provide the care you want to because you're running around like a maniac. Throughout the course of a twelve hour shift sometimes you may be lucky to snatch a ten minute break to wolf down a bit of crap food. You are often faced with a string of night shifts, or a string of unsocial hours including weekends and holiday periods that the vast majority of other industries don't have.

You are dealing with horrific sights on a daily basis. People with severe drug problems, people with severe psychiatric problems, bereavment, violence etc. On top of this you frequently have to deal with abuse from patients or their families who feel the need to scream and roar at you personally because of the wider problems of the NHS/HSE. On top of the massive workload dumped on top of you, you also have to keep meticulous records and will be hauled over the coals for the smallest discrepancy with no sympathy that you've been left with 12 extremely sick patients to deal with, alone, at the end of a 12 hour night shift.

Probably the biggest problem of being a nurse is the shower of eejits, who haven't the slightest clue what it's like to work in these conditions telling you that your job is overvalued and overpaid and that you should emigrate. Why anyone would want to be a nurse, work the above conditions and then be villified by puffed-up, pontificating clowns is beyond me.

how do her wages with the NHS compare to the salary conditions she had with the HSE ?

FTA69

mountai wrote: »

My Son, who has been employed in this capacity for 2 six month periods, was laid off yesterday, because , to offer him a third ,would have meant giving him rights. Its Shi**ty ,but its life. Whoever said life is fair. This is the reality of the Private sector. Why should the Public sector look for special treatment??

So because your son gets mistreated by unscrupolous employers those working at the coal-face of health care in hard conditions also deserve to be mistreated? Is this some weird manifestation of the "Irish begrudger" mentality people are always banging on about?

Your son and people like him get mistreated because there is currently a race to the bottom in ALL sectors of employment where workers are being squeezed more and more in the name of greater profit for their employers. Bosses can now afford to do this as there is a large pool of unemployed people they can point to in order to scare people into accepting the worst of treatment in their jobs. On top of this some bosses even have people stacking shelves for free in the name of "work experience." The only way to stop this is for working people to stand together in solidarity, not to demand that the likes of nurses and ambulance drivers get treated like sh*t as well.

Unfortunately the Irish trade union movement has been so bloody corrupted they are probably incapable of effectively unionising the private sector, but at the end of the day that's what's needed to protect people like nurses and protect people like your son.

big_joe_joyce

FTA69 wrote: »

So because your son gets mistreated by unscrupolous employers those working at the coal-face of health care in hard conditions also deserve to be mistreated? Is this some weird manifestation of the "Irish begrudger" mentality people are always banging on about?

Your son and people like him get mistreated because there is currently a race to the bottom in ALL sectors of employment where workers are being squeezed more and more in the name of greater profit for their employers. Bosses can now afford to do this as there is a large pool of unemployed people they can point to in order to scare people into accepting the worst of treatment in their jobs. On top of this some bosses even have people stacking shelves for free in the name of "work experience." The only way to stop this is for working people to stand together in solidarity, not to demand that the likes of nurses and ambulance drivers get treated like sh*t as well.

Unfortunately the Irish trade union movement has been so bloody corrupted they are probably incapable of effectively unionising the private sector, but at the end of the day that's what's needed to protect people like nurses and protect people like your son.

the notion of public sector and private sector workers standing together is a fallacy , if the public sector gets a sweet deal , it negativley effects the private sector , if the public sector sees cuts , its good for the private sector , they are at odds

Super-Rush

mountai wrote: »

Odysseus, I see you are a moderator. Is it possible you could throw some light on the issue of me being censured for answering a post . Please and thank you.

He's not a moderator for this forum, but i am.

Any questions you have can be sent by pm.

FTA69

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

the notion of public sector and private sector workers standing together is a fallacy , if the public sector gets a sweet deal , it negativley effects the private sector , if the public sector sees cuts , its good for the private sector , they are at odds

They aren't at odds at all, the overwhelming majority of those in the public sector are not on large salaries and work in services that are vital to society as a whole. Consequently they also spend their wages in the same private sector that generates the income from which private sector wages are paid. The notion that a working class nurse is inherently opposed to a working class machinist is nonsense. The only glaring antagonistic relationship here is the one between the worker and the boss, that's all. Anything else is a distraction and a crude attempt to weaken the position of the working person in general.

Boombastic

token101 wrote: »

Well to be honest, I'd rather not lose out! I'd rather give them what they want and actually get someone decent to stitch me up rather than some disinterested mutt who couldn't patch a ****ing tyre. Just looked at teachers starting salaries from the INTO, they get 30k starting, plus allowances. That's according to the INTO site, unless it's been changed recently, I'm open to be corrected on the figures. Are entry level teachers really getting more than entry level nurses? Do nurses get allowances (outside of uniform allowances, ****ing McDonalds give you a uniform)? Because surely someone who works weekend night shifts in A&E deserves more allowances than someone who has gone back to back to college to study more Irish?

Yes entry level teachers are getting more than nurses or garda, they had the best negotiator. I have some sympathy for the nurses here, the shifts and hours they do and they don't get half the year off.

big_joe_joyce

FTA69 wrote: »

They aren't at odds at all, the overwhelming majority of those in the public sector are not on large salaries and work in services that are vital to society as a whole. Consequently they also spend their wages in the same private sector that generates the income from which private sector wages are paid. The notion that a working class nurse is inherently opposed to a working class machinist is nonsense. The only glaring antagonistic relationship here is the one between the worker and the boss, that's all. Anything else is a distraction and a crude attempt to weaken the position of the working person in general.

i doubt the job of a nurse would be considered working class , they certainly dont earn the average industrial wage , about ten grand higher

taxes need to be raised in order to maintain public spending , this hits the wealth creating sector of the economy harder

Rasheed

alibab wrote: »

I am sorry to say this Rashead but you were positively spoilt . I work a similar area and if I had one nurse and 3 care assistant plus domestic staff from 2 till 8 I would think all my Christmases had come at once . Try doing that one nurse and one carer plus one domestic with more patients . Your patient to staff ratio is not bad there at all . It's all relative you think that is bad I think that is exceptional . But I work with exceptional care assistants and would be delighted to have 3 of them on a 2 to 8 . That's 4 staff to 23 patients very good numbers .

I'm not talking about the numbers, the numbers were sound, I never had any grievance with that end of it.

I was talking about being in charge of the staff and patients, despite being paid less then every member of staff.

If anything happened, it'd be my PIN number that would be in bother.

FTA69

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

i doubt the job of a nurse would be considered working class

Eh, they work for a living at the lower end of the HSE. Of course it's working class. In every sense.

they certainly dont earn the average industrial wage , about ten grand higher

Basic glance at the nurses pay rate puts the median income of a nurse at €33k a year, about the average industrial wage.

taxes need to be raised in order to maintain public spending , this hits the wealth creating sector of the economy harder

Eh, the average worker pays tax and in return he receives a state. He recieves schooling, he receives third level education in some cases, she receives roads and a police service and hospitals. In other words most public sector workers earn a similar wage, pay similar tax and live in similar conditions. You'd swear the concept of taxation from the state is anti-worker.

Unless you're some sort of crackpot Tea Party type.

mountai

FTA69 wrote: »

So because your son gets mistreated by unscrupolous employers those working at the coal-face of health care in hard conditions also deserve to be mistreated? Is this some weird manifestation of the "Irish begrudger" mentality people are always banging on about?

Your son and people like him get mistreated because there is currently a race to the bottom in ALL sectors of employment where workers are being squeezed more and more in the name of greater profit for their employers. Bosses can now afford to do this as there is a large pool of unemployed people they can point to in order to scare people into accepting the worst of treatment in their jobs. On top of this some bosses even have people stacking shelves for free in the name of "work experience." The only way to stop this is for working people to stand together in solidarity, not to demand that the likes of nurses and ambulance drivers get treated like sh*t as well.

Unfortunately the Irish trade union movement has been so bloody corrupted they are probably incapable of effectively unionising the private sector, but at the end of the day that's what's needed to protect people like nurses and protect people like your son.

Who said my Son was mistreated??? . The reality is --- He is part of a system , its called "Free Market Economy". Yes , occasionally the market dips ,and this is where we find ourselves at the moment. Good to see the way Iceland is recovering from its "doomsday scenario" The US seems to be picking up also. The difference is --- In those countries , the "Wrong doers" are prosecuted and jailed. Even the PM of Iceland is being brought through the courts for "Missmanagment". All the talk about the "Crooked Bankers" being brought to book, before the election, has now been put to one side. "Public Service Reform" --- another phrase bandied about --- yes, lets see when THATS going to happen . Turkeys voting for Christmas-- When is there going to be ONE decent moral politician stand up and call it like it is???

BTW . My Son will not be put down by this. He will get up off his arse, dust himself down and give it his best shot. Thats what most people in the REAL WORLD do.

big_joe_joyce

FTA69 wrote: »

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

Eh, they work for a living at the lower end of the HSE. Of course it's working class. In every sense.



Basic glance at the nurses pay rate puts the median income of a nurse at €33k a year, about the average industrial wage.



Eh, the average worker pays tax and in return he receives a state. He recieves schooling, he receives third level education in some cases, she receives roads and a police service and hospitals. In other words most public sector workers earn a similar wage, pay similar tax and live in similar conditions. You'd swear the concept of taxation from the state is anti-worker.

Unless you're some sort of crackpot Tea Party type.

the average nurse was earning 50 k per year in 2007 , they have experienced cuts of no greater than 15% since

that would put them on around about 43500 today

big_joe_joyce

FTA69 wrote: »

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

Eh, they work for a living at the lower end of the HSE. Of course it's working class. In every sense.



Basic glance at the nurses pay rate puts the median income of a nurse at €33k a year, about the average industrial wage.



Eh, the average worker pays tax and in return he receives a state. He recieves schooling, he receives third level education in some cases, she receives roads and a police service and hospitals. In other words most public sector workers earn a similar wage, pay similar tax and live in similar conditions. You'd swear the concept of taxation from the state is anti-worker.

Unless you're some sort of crackpot Tea Party type.

public sector workers do not earn similar wages to those in the private sector , thats an acknowledged fact , nothing crackpot about it , last figures show something like 30% of a pay differential

BillyMitchel

So did the nurse horse win or waaaa??

Dozen Wicked Words

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

the average nurse was earning 50 k per year in 2007 , they have experienced cuts of no greater than 15% since

that would put them on around about 43500 today

Starting pay and conditions for new entrants were changed a couple of years ago by 10% on top of all previous cuts so presumably that would impact on the average. As has been said before, the Clinical Nurse Manager grade not ward based heavily scew the average. Management grades that are classed as nurses in the HSE would not be considered nurses in the NHS. All middle management in my local hospital are "nurses" but most haven't done any "nursing" for years.