Nurses

YbFocus

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The other poster quoted the lowest possible pay scale for a staff nurse, ignoring the 24 publically available better paid nurse scales and ignoring the significant payments most nurses receive in addition to their base salary.

That is a total lie. I also posted the highest achievable pay for a general nurse possible.

Then quoted the CNM wage at maximum.

barbiegirl

Actually as I earn over 60k in the private sector and if I **** up no-one dies I have NO issue with nurses if they earned that. I don't believe they do though it is closer to 40k. They are highly educated medical professionals.
However they should work 5 x 8 hour shifts to ensure they are rested enough to perform well and for flexibility on shifts. Everyone should have to do their fair share of night and weekend work. It is a very stressful job and the hse is bankrupt but irrespective you need a certain number of nurses to give an acceptable level of service. Nursing is a profession whereby you sign up to unsociable hours and shift work, this is where greater flexibility is required rather than attacking basic pay rates. If nurses on the normal rota cover all shifts this is substantially cheaper than agency and also means staff know one another and work better together. I would also be in favour of allowing them more power by way of treating patients such as they are allowed in Australia. They have a lot of knowledge and experience that should be better used.
Give over attacking and mis-representing them, their job is very, very difficult. Not one I would want.

Padraig Mor

YbFocus wrote: »

You are beyond listening to at this stage

When someone becomes a supervisor to a team do they not earn more for that position in any profession?
Just answer that.

Now think of a CNM as a supervisor, which she is.

A highly skilled nurse that has been seen fit to be promoted to CNM after a long number of years I may add.

He or she cannot be considered to be a nurse pay scale wise as she does not fall under the nurses pay scale or position. She is a CNM.

Is a cnm registered with the nursing board? Yes.

Are they represented by the nursing union? Yes.

Does their flipping job title include the word 'nurse'? Yes.

Trying to deny they are nurses is just bizarre. Is a garda seargant not a garda?

YbFocus

barbiegirl wrote: »

Actually as I earn over 60k in the private sector and if I **** up no-one dies I have NO issue with nurses if they earned that. I don't believe they do though it is closer to 40k. They are highly educated medical professionals.
However they should work 5 x 8 hour shifts to ensure they are rested enough to perform well and for flexibility on shifts. Everyone should have to do their fair share of night and weekend work. It is a very stressful job and the hse is bankrupt but irrespective you need a certain number of nurses to give an acceptable level of service. Nursing is a profession whereby you sign up to unsociable hours and shift work, this is where greater flexibility is required rather than attacking basic pay rates. If nurses on the normal rota cover all shifts this is substantially cheaper than agency and also means staff know one another and work better together. I would also be in favour of allowing them more power by way of treating patients such as they are allowed in Australia. They have a lot of knowledge and experience that should be better used.
Give over attacking and mis-representing them, their job is very, very difficult. Not one I would want.

Here here Bgirl great words. People just think they come in and do nothing.
I love seeing that someone else see's what very few do!

YbFocus

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Is a cnm registered with the nursing board? Yes.

Are they represented by the nursing union? Yes.

Does their flipping job title include the word 'nurse'? Yes.

Trying to deny they are nurses is just bizarre. Is a garda seargant not a garda?

A garda sergeant is a garda, he is on a much higher scale than a normal guard.
You don't see what I am trying to say, or you don't want to.
Pray you never need to be in a hospital where you will feel like a real j*rk.

Steve jobs was some lad that fixed computers in your mind so?
Once you enter a job, the title you start with is the one you finish too is it?
Your pay won't increase as you get promoted over decades?
You need to rethink the fact that you know everything and must refuse what others have to say. When others know.

Good night boards.

K-9

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

it would be naive to think schools or hospitals can go uneffected by a rescession

Didn't answer my question at all.

Odysseus wrote: »

It can't be done; or if it is attempted in anyway we get threads like the one over the day charge of 75e being applied to patients and how that is wrong [which I do concur with]

Indeed.

Padraig Mor

YbFocus wrote: »

That is a total lie. I also posted the highest achievable pay for a general nurse possible.

Then quoted the CNM wage at maximum.

What's a lie?

A staff nurse can progress to 24 higher paid scales within the hse. This is a fact.

Nurses on average earn significant extra pay through allowances (of which there are 30 available) and premium pay. This is a fact. Averaging 25% on top of salary according to their own union.

Nurses certainly have cause for complaint in relation to some issues. Pay is not one of them.

K-9

Padraig Mor wrote: »

But she's still. ......a nurse.

Like an Inspector is the same as a Guard.

Or a Supervisor is the same as a factory worker.

Words sometimes fail me.

A private sector manager with the same responsibilities as for instance a cnm grade 3 nurse manager would be on a significantly higher salary, multiplies of their salary I would wager.

It's not just the nurses on the wards that are criminally underpaid the management staff with massive responsibilities are also.

big_joe_joyce

Luka Handsome Fingertip wrote: »

A private sector manager with the same responsibilities as for instance a cnm grade 3 nurse manager would be on a significantly higher salary, multiplies of their salary I would wager.

It's not just the nurses on the wards that are criminally underpaid the management staff with massive responsibilities are also.

nurses dont really have an equivelent in company management , its apples and organges

the only credible benchmark is against nurses in other countries like the uk , when this comparison is presented , irish nurses do very well

K-9

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

nurses dont really have an equivelent in company management , its apples and organges

Indeed they do not, apples and oranges indeed.

the only credible benchmark is against nurses in other countries like the uk , when this comparison is presented , irish nurses do very well

Seems they are comparable, hardly very well.

big_joe_joyce

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed they do not, apples and oranges indeed.



Seems they are comparable, hardly very well.

why not

paul4green

The IMNO are stupid.

They've allowed every IT up and down the country to open a School of Nursing. It's simple economics to be honest, up the supply and the price you pay falls. There's too many nurses because of this and the HSE are being opportunistic and taking advantage of the nurses.

Also, not only is there too many nursing graduates, you now have so many disciplines such as General,psych,mids & ID Nursing that's it's easy to see why they are being offered such poor wages.

Upskill, do a really complicated Nursing speciality and set yourself above the rest. It's the only way newly graduated nurses will earn high salaries in this country, unfortunately.

And before anyone starts accusing me of "not understanding the work Nurses do", my mother is a Nurse, I understand completely.

K-9

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

why not

big_joe_joyce wrote:

nurses dont really have an equivelent in company management , its apples and organges.

Indeed, why not.

Rasheed

Padraig Mor wrote: »

CNMs (some grades) are what used to be called Ward sisters. A large proportion of full time nurses with 10+ years experience will be cnms. Don't forget significant top ups for myriad allowances and premium pay.

Padraig, you're one if those lads that, when they come in to hospital, tell me that you pay my wages and I'm basically your servant, aren't you?

Tell me about these 'myriad' of allowances, I'm missing out big time!

Mrs. Draper

Nursing and midwifery graduates who qualified in 2009, only three years ago, started on the second point of the salary scale which was €33,470 (following 16 weeks of employment post the 4th year internship placement). In January 2011, the government imposed a 10% cut to all new entrants into the public sector and salaries reduced to €28,539. In February 2012, the Department of Health issued a circular to hospitals directing management to put newly qualified nurses/midwives on the first point of the salary scale which is €27,211. On the 11th of December 2012, the government announced that they were going to recruit 1,000 newly qualified nurses/midwives on two year contracts at only 80% of the 1st point of the staff nurse salary scale which equates to €22,000 per annum. This means that newly qualified nurses/midwives will have incurred a cut of €11,470 in just three years. This is a 34% cut in salary and is unprecedented and unmatched with the public service.

The government’s rationale for introducing positions for newly qualified nurses/midwives, at this reduced rate is to save money on agency expenditure. However, the HSE would have saved over 54% per post by the simple conversion of agency staff to direct employment and by placing the nursing and midwifery graduates on the agreed starting salary. This very significant saving was apparently not sufficient and the government now appears intent upon imposing this 80% rate even though the new graduate, as a registered nurse/midwife, will carry the full duties and responsibilities of a registered and regulated health professional.

On December 14th the HSE issued a memo to all Directors of Nursing asking them to withdraw all contracts which they have issued to the 2012 graduates to date. This effectively means that hundreds of newly qualified nurses and midwives will be made unemployed in January so that the government can offer them these underpaid graduate jobs in February.

Israel_Dagg

I dislike it when that excuse of "maybe one day they'll save your life" or something.

Every profession is important.

What about the workers in bord na mona who cut the peat to burn in power stations?

What about the car manufacturers who build cars, same with trains/planes.

I could go on...

mydogjack

When a Bord Na Mona employee actually does save my life, i'll ask a nurse to keep me warm for the winter.
Useless analogy chief!

Grayson

Mrs. Draper wrote: »

Nursing and midwifery graduates who qualified in 2009, only three years ago, started on the second point of the salary scale which was €33,470 (following 16 weeks of employment post the 4th year internship placement). In January 2011, the government imposed a 10% cut to all new entrants into the public sector and salaries reduced to €28,539.

I don't think you know what 10% means.

Israel_Dagg

mydogjack wrote: »

When a Bord Na Mona employee actually does save my life, i'll ask a nurse to keep me warm for the winter.
Useless analogy chief!

For one, that's not an analogy.

Second of all, you wouldn't survive without medicine or surgeons. Remember the days when you'd die from not being able to get your appendix removed? Who do I hear praising the guys who invented medicine?

Who do I hear praising the guys that cure cancer? No one?

Grayson

Israel_Dagg wrote: »

For one, that's not an analogy.

Second of all, you wouldn't survive without medicine or surgeons. Remember the days when you'd die from not being able to get your appendix removed? Who do I hear praising the guys who invented medicine?

Who do I hear praising the guys that cure cancer? No one?

We wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for electricity.

mydogjack

Israel_Dagg wrote: »

For one, that's not an analogy.

Second of all, you wouldn't survive without medicine or surgeons. Remember the days when you'd die from not being able to get your appendix removed? Who do I hear praising the guys who invented medicine?

Who do I hear praising the guys that cure cancer? No one?

People praise doctors too, like the nurses I was referring to.
Nobody "cured cancer" yet, but I will praise them when it happens!

An analogy is a comparison based on such similarity, so really it was an analogy, much like your last comment.
You have a good point but like I said, poor analogy.

Capt'n Midnight

Israel_Dagg wrote: »

I dislike it when that excuse of "maybe one day they'll save your life" or something.

Every profession is important.

What about the workers in bord na mona who cut the peat to burn in power stations?

we are phasing out peat stations

What about the car manufacturers who build cars, same with trains/planes.

I could go on...

because Ireland is well know for building planes, trains and automobiles

Israel_Dagg

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

we are phasing out peat stations

because Ireland is well know for building planes, trains and automobiles

Can you prove they're phasing out peat stations?

They are introducing a minimum amount of biomass fired plants, not phasing out peat. Peat will not be phased out in my lifetime.

Israel_Dagg

mydogjack wrote: »

People praise doctors too, like the nurses I was referring to.
Nobody "cured cancer" yet, but I will praise them when it happens!

An analogy is a comparison based on such similarity, so really it was an analogy, much like your last comment.
You have a good point but like I said, poor analogy.

Whatever you call chaemo (sp?) then.

Also nurses are hardly worth that much when the points are average enough in some of the colleges in the country.

Capt'n Midnight

mydogjack wrote: »

People praise doctors too, like the nurses I was referring to.
Nobody "cured cancer" yet, but I will praise them when it happens!

many types of cancer are specific to the individual so unlikely there will ever be a "cure"

But for cancers caused by viruses there are already some HPV vaccines that can prevent many of them.

Capt'n Midnight

Israel_Dagg wrote: »

Can you prove they're phasing out peat stations?

They are introducing a minimum amount of biomass fired plants, not phasing out peat. Peat will not be phased out in my lifetime.

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/16662-bord-na-mona-to-phase-out-p

Total peat power from peat is about 5%

BnM are using 13% sawdust in Edenderry power station, 40% paper in firelighters and imported fuels
and they are big into windmills

BnM haven't bought any bogs for ages, nor will they start production on any more, it's a finite resource and they are diversifying

Israel_Dagg

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/16662-bord-na-mona-to-phase-out-p

Total peat power from peat is about 5%

BnM are using 13% sawdust in Edenderry power station, 40% paper in firelighters and imported fuels
and they are big into windmills

BnM haven't bought any bogs for ages, nor will they start production on any more, it's a finite resource and they are diversifying

Here.

http://www.bordnamona.ie/news/latest/news-item-two/

Capt'n Midnight

Israel_Dagg wrote: »

Here.

That's talking about two years time all the way up to seven years time.



Anyway back on topic - what are the chances of a strike in this climate ?

Mrs. Draper

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Anyway back on topic - what are the chances of a strike in this climate ?

Nursing/Midwifery strike? Is that what you mean? There is a rally tomorrow in Dublin which I will attend.