Why are Degree courses in Ireland 4 years?

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah but a lot of that work experience is in the summer anyway.

So I did a 4 year degree and a 1 year masters, what does that translate to in other countries?

Steodonn

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I think a lot of 4 year courses include time for work experience, while a lot of the 3 year ones don't, could be wrong though.

In DCU most courses have work placement and are 4 years mine is one of the few that don't and is only 3 years

Although it also includes "undergraduate Masters" such as MEng, MPhys, or MMath. So, contrary to what I said earlier A four year UK "Masters" degree may indeed be comparable to a four year Irish BA.

That makes sense it has a masters here and one in the UK as equal to each other

Lawliet

dfx- wrote: »

From a chemistry point of view, I wouldn't get rid of the first general year. I supervise first year labs and found a course that had higher level chemistry as a pre-requisite where students had never physically held the most basic lab equipment before third level.

That sort of cobweb has to be cleared out..

I'm in third year of a four year science and I couldn't touch that first year either. I did biology and chemistry at leaving cert so I already knew most of what we did in lecturers, but the practical stuff was completely new. Our school just didn't have the space or equipment for students to do a lot of the experiments, I'm sure I wasn't the only one. If you cut first year you'd have students working with dangerous chemicals and expensive lab equipment with no training. Recipe for disaster.

Sugar Free

Wurly wrote: »

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

I'm assuming it was on top of another existing third level qualification like a national certificate or diploma?

So the full degree year would have in conjunction with the previous qualification given enough credits from the links given to award a degree...

Completely open to correction though, just speculating!

Grayson

Wurly wrote: »

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

I googled a bit and there's a 1 year nursing degree from DCU

http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=BNS&degree_description=Bachelor+of+Nursing+Studies+Online%2FBlended+Learning+(Honours)+Degree+-++1+year

rannerap

Wurly wrote: »

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

No it wasn't distance learning. I went to college full time. Here is the course below. I attended classes in Ballyfermot but my degree was through dcu and says dcu on it, not Ballyfermot college http://applications.bcfe.ie/course-MPM-BA_(Hons)_Degree_In_Media_Production__Management.html

rannerap

Sugar Free wrote: »

I'm assuming it was on top of another existing third level qualification like a national certificate or diploma?

So the full degree year would have in conjunction with the previous qualification given enough credits from the links given to award a degree...

Completely open to correction though, just speculating!

Only seen this after I posted, yeah I already had graduated with a higher national diploma in the same field.

summerskin

It's totally different in the UK, virtually ALL degrees are honours, and it's based on your average grade

"Degree classification

A degree may be awarded with or without honours, with the class of an honours degree based on a weighted average mark of the assessed work a candidate has completed. Below is a list of the possible classifications with common abbreviations. Honours degrees are in bold.

First class honours (1st)
Second class honours, upper division (2:1)
Second class honours, lower division (2:2)
Third class honours (3rd)
Ordinary degree (Pass)

At most institutions the system allows a small amount of discretion and a candidate may be elevated to the next degree class if their average marks are close to, or the median of their weighted marks achieves the higher class and they have submitted many pieces of work worthy of the higher class. However, they may be demoted a class if they fail to pass all parts of the course even if they have a high average."

I have a BA(hons) and could then have chosen to go on to study for my Masters, which i didn't.

To be honest, i have never heard of even a single person getting just a "Pass"(ordinary degree). A 2-2(lower second class honours) is the minimum requirement for you to go to Post-Grad study.


The reason degrees are usually done in 3 years in the UK is down to A-levels, plain and simple.

eyeroad yearowl one

Anyone with a Trinity BA can be awarded an MA three years or so after graduating. Same as the Oxbridge system

The Cool

As someone said 2 pages back, the nursing degree in the UK takes 3 years instead of the 4 it takes here because they don't have summer holidays, and are studying or on placement 11 months a year. Don't think I'd want that - I did a 4 year BA and a Masters and depended on having 3 months off each summer in order to work and save up for the next academic year. A mate of mine is studying nursing in Derry and has been flat broke for three years with feck all down time. It was great for her as she went in older than the others having done a diploma first, but it's been hardcore constantly stressing about the rent for 3 years.

philologos

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

In England, a Degree lasts 3 years and costs more money to weed out the non serious students. Does this mean they are worth more to employers? Have you encountered any stick over this? A year is a big difference for the same qualification. It implies that Irish students on average, slower. My idea to save money for the Gubbermint - make ALL 4 year degree courses 3 years. This would save quite a bit of money for the taxpayer. A 4 year degree makes very little sense. Agreed?

That's wrong by the by. Degree's vary between 3 and 4 years in the UK also. I did a 3 year one in Ireland.

Free fees are clearly on the way out in Ireland. It's not feasible to keep it up in an economy which is so heavily indebted. The registration fee is going up each year.

steddyeddy

philologos wrote: »

That's wrong by the by. Degree's vary between 3 and 4 years in the UK also. I did a 3 year one in Ireland.

Free fees are clearly on the way out in Ireland. It's not feasible to keep it up in an economy which is so heavily indebted. The registration fee is going up each year.

Indeed several people in the undergraduate class have parents on incomes large enough to pay fees so they should be paying. Give free fees to those who need them.

Me Arse

Becasue of the crap that is crammed into degrees in Ireland and the way they are sturctured is ridiculous and most of the modules are made up of mandatory components that people don't wnat to do. There is very little room for electives.
For example, my SCIENCE degree has a mandatory business component, to be more specific, I am doing Chemistry, yet i have to do an electronics component. WHYYY??? There are also too many gaps in the timetable and much time is wasted, this can be due to lack of teachers ??

claregalway1

Redhairedguy wrote: »

My B.A degree in Galway was only 3 years...

thats because you went to GTI you simpleton

Kinski

eyeroad yearowl one wrote: »

Anyone with a Trinity BA can be awarded an MA three years or so after graduating. Same as the Oxbridge system

Those things are meaningless; they're not postgraduate qualifications. What would be called an MA in most Irish unis is called an MPhil in Trinity.

entropi

My degree (B.Sc) would never get done in 3 years, there's far too much to learn without that 4th year included.

Cavehill Red

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

In England, a Degree lasts 3 years and costs more money to weed out the non serious students poor.

Corrected your typo.

Madam_X

A lot of four-year degrees include a work/abroad placement though.

steddyeddy

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Corrected your typo.

That's very true Cavehill but I can promise you the poor students are usually far more serious about their degree as they have more to gain by getting one and more to lose by failing one.

Tar.Aldarion

Madam_X wrote: »

A lot of four-year degrees include a work/abroad placement though.

Most of this is done when you are off uni anyway. Mine was april-september. Just did the exams a month earlier or so.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed several people in the undergraduate class have parents on incomes large enough to pay fees so they should be paying. Give free fees to those who need them.

That's not really fair either.

Drakares

If you do an honors degree (4 years) it only takes 1 year to do a masters, if you do an ordinary degree (3 years) it takes 2 to do a masters.

There's something irrelevant to add

orestes

Kinski wrote: »

Those things are meaningless; they're not postgraduate qualifications. What would be called an MA in most Irish unis is called an MPhil in Trinity.

Actually, what is an M. Phil exactly? I was looking at Trinity postgrad courses last night and a few of them came up as M. Phil so I thought it was just a taught Masters in Philosophy which you could use to go towards a research Masters (I have a philosophy degree so most of the courses I would be looking at would be related to that so I just figured that was why it was an M. Phil. but I didn't do my undergrad as part of an arts degree, just a 3 year honours philosophy degree)

steddyeddy

Ameer Attractive Ledge wrote: »

That's not really fair either.

How so Izzy Wizzy ?

I do pharmacy in the UK and it takes 4 years.

Miss Lockhart

Almost all 4 year degrees in Ireland are 240 ECTS credits and 3 year degrees are 180 credits. There are some exceptions, especially where placement during holiday periods counts as credits.

Is the OP suggesting that most UK degrees cover 240 credits in 3 years?

pickarooney

Sarannewrap wrote: »

It started in September of last year and I had my exams in June and the thesis was due in August, Graduated there last month

Do you get three years free to go drinking and riding then?

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

How so Izzy Wizzy ?

Well, my parents worked really hard for years to get to a comfortable (far from rich) level, making all kinds of sacrifices. Then when we got to university (my siblings and I are around the same age), we didn't qualify for any grants or reductions through the UK system and had to pay full whack for everything. My parents couldn't afford to pay all that (they paid as much as they could, which pretty much crippled them financially), so we had to work our way through college and take out student loans. Meanwhile, other students with parents on the dole got grants and reduced tuition, didn't have to work and a lot of the time didn't even bother showing up to classes. How is that fair? I think if it's free for some, it should be free for everyone. Those students who got grants have already cleared their debts, while I'll be paying mine off for the next 20+ years. A lot of others are in the same boat.

This 'you earn more, so you pay more attitude' doesn't sit well with me at all. Why bother busting your balls for years just to subsidise other people's kids while your own are drowning in debt?

MadsL

srsly78 wrote: »

The Bologna process standardised all of this.

In England a 4 year course usually gives a Masters. Our 4 year courses give Hons Degree. Internationally this is recognised to be the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

Wut? All I can see there is

In Ireland bachelor's degrees are commonly three to four years in duration. Master's and Doctoral degrees are broadly similar to those in the UK. Bachelor's degrees are also first cycle qualifications. A master's degree is always a postgraduate degree, either taught or by research. The generic outcomes for Irish degrees are laid out in the National Framework of Qualifications published in 2003. In 2006 Ireland became the first country to verify the compatibility of its national framework with the overarching framework of qualifications for the EHEA

Where does it state that an Irish four year = masters. If that is the case why study for a Masters.

srsly78 wrote: »

Ok, lets say you have a 4 year BA Hons from Trinity. Someone from England has a 4 year MA from Scunthorpe Uni. Internationally these are the same level qualification (same amount of time spent, same credits).

You consider Masters level study to be the same as Undergraduate level study? Please explain.

However you are right, the Irish degree is clearly better in this case and most employers know this.

That smacks of pure snobbery, lets not get overexcited abut Trinity, not even top 50 for 2012.

If the job requires a Masters, the 4 year MA gets it. Back to Trinners for you to go get it.

Kinski

orestes wrote: »

Actually, what is an M. Phil exactly? I was looking at Trinity postgrad courses last night and a few of them came up as M. Phil so I thought it was just a taught Masters in Philosophy which you could use to go towards a research Masters (I have a philosophy degree so most of the courses I would be looking at would be related to that so I just figured that was why it was an M. Phil. but I didn't do my undergrad as part of an arts degree, just a 3 year honours philosophy degree)

MPhil is just the degree awarded after completing a taught masters in Arts/Humanities, the equivalent of an MA from UCD etc. A research masters is called an MLitt.

My degree was 4 years and masters was 2.

orestes

Kinski wrote: »

MPhil is just the degree awarded after completing a taught masters in Arts/Humanities, the equivalent of an MA from UCD etc. A research masters is called an MLitt.

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up for me, I knew I'd crossed the wires somewhere

steddyeddy

bluewolf wrote: »

My degree was 4 years and masters was 2.

As were mine and it didn't do me any harm :-)

Boombastic

harney wrote: »

In fairness, if you have cash you can do a masters in the UK.

In Sweden you can do it for free, just need your living expenses

Grayson

orestes wrote: »

Actually, what is an M. Phil exactly? I was looking at Trinity postgrad courses last night and a few of them came up as M. Phil so I thought it was just a taught Masters in Philosophy which you could use to go towards a research Masters (I have a philosophy degree so most of the courses I would be looking at would be related to that so I just figured that was why it was an M. Phil. but I didn't do my undergrad as part of an arts degree, just a 3 year honours philosophy degree)

I believe the name of the masters just reflects the faculty that's awarding it. So the M.Phil is awarded by the faculty of philosophy. In other colleges it's an M.A. because philosophy is a department, not a faculty.

rannerap

pickarooney wrote: »

Do you get three years free to go drinking and riding then?

no, I did a one year certificate course, then did a two year higher national diploma course to qualify for the one year degree, then the one year degree course. I still did 4 years. But I now have 3 qualifications instead of one for the 4 years I was in college

steddyeddy

Sarannewrap wrote: »

no, I did a one year certificate course, then did a two year higher national diploma course to qualify for the one year degree, then the one year degree course. I still did 4 years. But I now have 3 qualifications instead of one for the 4 years I was in college

No drinking or ladypleasing during three years of college? I'd ask for my money back if I were you!

Kinski

Grayson wrote: »

I believe the name of the masters just reflects the faculty that's awarding it. So the M.Phil is awarded by the faculty of philosophy. In other colleges it's an M.A. because philosophy is a department, not a faculty.

No, the department of philosophy was merged into a school of social sciences and philosophy a few years back. That and various other schools are grouped under the faculty of arts, humanities and social sciences.

They use the MPhil title to distinguish their taught masters from that other MA title graduates can buy a few years after finishing their degrees.

rannerap

steddyeddy wrote: »

No drinking or ladypleasing during three years of college? I'd ask for my money back if I were you!

I was very boring during college and didn't go out much, I also had a steady boyfriend throughout my time there! My family aren't well off and I felt very lucky to be going to college so I spent all my spare time working to put myself through it!

Kinski

steddyeddy wrote: »

No ... ladypleasing during three years of college?

Sarannewrap wrote: »

I also had a steady boyfriend throughout my time there!

Aww, boooo!

steddyeddy

Sarannewrap wrote: »

I was very boring during college and didn't go out much, I also had a steady boyfriend throughout my time there! My family aren't well off and I felt very lucky to be going to college so I spent all my spare time working to put myself through it!

Fair play to you S! Similar situation myself (apart from the boyfriend). I also felt privileged to go to college and I lived in the library. It is paying off now though so I can't complain!

rannerap

Kinski wrote: »

Aww, boooo!

We are still together too :pac:

steddyeddy wrote: »

Fair play to you S! Similar situation myself (apart from the boyfriend). I also felt privileged to go to college and I lived in the library. It is paying off now though so I can't complain!

GladI got my qualifications, just wish I could find a job in my field now haha

steddyeddy

Without sounding to brutal I always put biochemistry before my relationships in college. Not a chance I could reach my full potential in college and be in a relationship. It wouldnt be fair on the girl either.

shruikan2553

ITs tend to be mostly 3 years with the option of an extra year for the honours degree while universities ( and colleges I think) are nearly all 4 years honours degrees with the exception being arts depending on if you are doing a BA connect.

For first year engineering I had to do applied maths, physics, chemistry, graphics, calculus and a few others were were altered versions of the leaving cert courses, some bits left out and a few added in.

Our college system works on people having the points and a few vague requirements like needing a science subject or a foreign language so the first year is just to get everyone up to the same level. We could reduce honours degrees to 3 years but it would require a reworking of the leaving cert system.

steddyeddy

Sarannewrap wrote: »

We are still together too :pac:



GladI got my qualifications, just wish I could find a job in my field now haha

Do you mind me asking your field? If that's being too nosy best of luck with it!

rannerap

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do you mind me asking your field? If that's being too nosy best of luck with it!

Media! ah its not like I have nothing going on though, Im starting a deputy editor internship Monday, I present a radio show on near fm, soon to be 2 shows, and I'm a music journalist for a few websites. I also run a beauty blog that is doing quite well. its all about getting the experience first!

steddyeddy

shruikan2553 wrote: »

ITs tend to be mostly 3 years with the option of an extra year for the honours degree while universities ( and colleges I think) are nearly all 4 years honours degrees with the exception being arts depending on if you are doing a BA connect.

For first year engineering I had to do applied maths, physics, chemistry, graphics, calculus and a few others were were altered versions of the leaving cert courses, some bits left out and a few added in.

Our college system works on people having the points and a few vague requirements like needing a science subject or a foreign language so the first year is just to get everyone up to the same level. We could reduce honours degrees to 3 years but it would require a reworking of the leaving cert system.

Very true. First year science our biochemistry lecturer said to the class "the biology you were taught in school is wrong, forget it and we will tell you what really happens in photsynthesis".

MadsL

steddyeddy wrote: »

Very true. First year science our biochemistry lecturer said to the class "the biology you were taught in school is wrong, forget it and we will tell you what really happens in photsynthesis".

...and that's why he wasn't an English professor...

1ZRed

I just realised had I gone straight through to college and did my 4 year course by the time I was finished with my exams in the summer I would've been just 20 finishing up college!

steddyeddy

MadsL wrote: »

...and that's why he wasn't an English professor...

Well he didn't write the post in fairness.I didn't say I am the lecturer did I?