Forum Feedback (Please thank this post so we know you have seen it)

GreeBo

So, following on from successful input on other fora we have decided to create a feedback thread so that you, the posters, can give us, the mods, some feedback on how you think the Golf Forum is running.

Feel free to voice any issues/ideas that you may have but note that this is not going to be allowed turn into an unmoderated free for all, the usual posting rules apply.

Please also comment on any positives/things you like in the forum, its important that we know what you guys want to keep along with what we might need to address. Is there anything in the charter that you dont like or disagree with? Likewise is there anything that you would like to see added in there?
Note that, like every other forum on boards.ie, the charter will never be all encompassing and written in stone, they are guidelines, typically aimed at newer users.

We want the forum to be a place for open conversations, but also a place where everyone is equal and welcome.

If you have something that you would like posted, but dont necessarily want to post it yourself, please PM one of us and we will post it for you.

This thread will remain open and stuck as long as we deem its useful, no prescribed lifetime on it.

Danny dyers double

I would just like to say I really enjoy this forum . I'm not even a year playing the sport and iv been giving great advice by posters on here . And if iv ever needed any questions answered on Golf I received them here .

So thanks all , and hopefully I will be posting some decent scores in 2013

Rikand

if the greebo fella was more like that charlie fella I think this would be a happier place for all.

except for the lowry thread...charlie needs to be more like greebo in that thread

PARlance

Firstly, thanks to the Mods for all their work this year.

Secondly, I would like to suggest when one Mod is involved (actively posting) in a thread that involves a debate, then, if possible, the other Mod would look after moderating that thread.

I certainly feel, and know of several others that feel that biased moderation occurs in such instances.

I don't feel it's an intentional bias, I think it's only human nature that a mod would be less inclined to issue warnings to someone that is making the same points/argument as themself. I'd find it incredibly though not to let it influence me.

Threads with debates make up a fairly small percent of total forum....thankfully.

There is certainly a feeling that there's a health warning needed when going up against a mod in one of these debate threads. I think this in itself is causing a greater issue as it can spill over into other threads/ the forum in general.

I'd appreciate if it could be considered.
And I'm glad this thread wasn't here last night because I might have been having a holiday

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Secondly, I would like to suggest when one Mod is involved (actively posting) in a thread that involves a debate, then, if possible, the other Mod would look after moderating that thread.

We do try to do this, however its not always possible, especially when people start to take moderation into their own hands and the entire thread is derailed. If people could Report a post and then not rise to it, things would be a lot easier for all of us!
If the posting mod ignored "actionable" behaviour then the thread descends into anarchy.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I certainly feel, and know of several others that feel that biased moderation occurs in such instances.

I don't feel it's an intentional bias, I think it's only human nature that a mod would be less inclined to issue warnings to someone that is making the same points/argument as themself. I'd find it incredibly though not to let it influence me.

By all means PM one or both mods if you feel there is unfair moderation, we are human and make mistakes but are also big enough to talk them through, if people approach us like humans. Launching into a rant is not likely to be successful, we are all volunteers after all.
However, there is no (none, zero, zip) tolerance for discussing moderation on ANY forum on boards.ie its just not done.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

There is certainly a feeling that there's a health warning needed when going up against a mod in one of these debate threads. I think this in itself is causing a greater issue as it can spill over into other threads/ the forum in general.

I think thats pretty unfair on CharlieIRL in fairness
So lets address this, or at least attempt to.
Firstly, mods are posters too, in most cases part of the main reason they are mods on a specific forum is because they are interested in the topics on that forum.
As such we are entitled to our opinions and indeed to express them, within the same rules that all posters have to obey. Regular posters dont see it, but moderators, category mods and indeed admins are in regular enough contact with each other, making sure that things are running smoothly and to "plan".
I'm not sure what you mean by a "health" warning? I argue my point, thats not going to change, if you disagree with what I said then disagree and argue your point, within the rules. There is no requirement to argue any differently because I happen to be a moderator. Unless Im posting like this then its game on to argue/reply/whatever as you would with any poster, and I will reply in kind.


I dont believe that I moderate any differently whether or not a poster happens to agree with my personal opinions or not. As above, if you believe you have examples of this, PM me/us and lets talk about it!
My personal view is that certain posters treat my opinions differently because I happen to be a mod, if I make points disagreeing with them the reaction is along the lines of "typical mod attitude" and there is no debate, it descends into childishness.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I'd appreciate if it could be considered.
And I'm glad this thread wasn't here last night because I might have been having a holiday

ahh grasshopper, you are learning!
Thanks for taking the time to post the feedback.

GreeBo

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

if the greebo fella was more like that charlie fella I think this would be a happier place for all.

I dont really agree with that to be honest, when Licksy moved on and I took over I was very slow to warn/infract/ban anyone, I guess the result of being new.

As far as I rememeber it (and based on the number of thanks on that thread) that certainly didnt result in a happy families, everyone getting along and no issues forum, every second thread was bitching and sniping...I know I dont want to go back to that.

If you abuse another poster, breach the charter or generally "act the dick" then you will have problems here and on every forum on boards, there are always going to be people who do act the dick, sometimes its in a heated moment and an on thread warning or yellow card is enough, but we have plenty of instances of people who seem to just come on here to troll, wind up and annoy everyone, you only have to look at the list of perma-bans to see that.

However, I will take on board the point of what you are saying.

onlyfinewine

Rickylovesuall


if the greebo fella was more like that charlie fella I think this would be a happier place for all.

except for the lowry thread...charlie needs to be more like greebo in that thread

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont really agree with that to be honest...............

However, I will take on board the point of what you are saying.

And maybe notice the little yellow fellow with the big smile at the end of the post?::)

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

We do try to do this, however its not always possible, especially when people start to take moderation into their own hands and the entire thread is derailed.

I completely agree that people shouldn't take moderation into their own hands.
For clarification to others, as my warning is mentioned on this thread, the warning I got last night was for making "childish" comments and not back seat moderation.
I can't say anything further publicly to dispute that I guess

GreeBo wrote: »

If people could Report a post and then not rise to it, things would be a lot easier for all of us!

Could I suggest that reported comments are responded to?
I've think I've made 2 or 3 reports this year and never got any response.
I may not have been correct in my reporting, but an acknowledgment that it has been reviewed and not seen as a valid report would only go to promote this activity that you are looking for.

GreeBo wrote: »

If the posting mod ignored "actionable" behaviour then the thread descends into anarchy.

I never said or intended to suggest anything to the contrary. My issue is not with mods breaking the rules, it's with Charlie applying them in a biased way

GreeBo wrote: »

By all means PM one or both mods if you feel there is unfair moderation

I took out the bit were you admit to making mistakes because we all know that's not true.
I didn't PM either mod yesterday, for several varying reasons, but I welcome this thread as a means of talking an issue I have in the overall running of the forum rather than any personal issue.

GreeBo wrote: »

However, there is no (none, zero, zip) tolerance for discussing moderation on ANY forum on boards.ie its just not done.

GreeBo wrote: »

So, following on from successful input on other fora we have decided to create a feedback thread so that you, the posters, can give us, the mods, some feedback on how you think the Golf Forum is running.

Ahem.... this thread?

GreeBo wrote: »

I think thats pretty unfair on CharlieIRL in fairness

I didn't want to name names, I reckoned people would figure it out for themselves after a few months (seconds)

GreeBo wrote: »

So lets address this, or at least attempt to.
Firstly, mods are posters too, in most cases part of the main reason they are mods on a specific forum is because they are interested in the topics on that forum.
As such we are entitled to our opinions and indeed to express them, within the same rules that all posters have to obey. Regular posters dont see it, but moderators, category mods and indeed admins are in regular enough contact with each other, making sure that things are running smoothly and to "plan".
I'm not sure what you mean by a "health" warning? I argue my point, thats not going to change, if you disagree with what I said then disagree and argue your point, within the rules. There is no requirement to argue any differently because I happen to be a moderator. Unless Im posting like this then its game on to argue/reply/whatever as you would with any poster, and I will reply in kind.

All that is perfect, completely agree with all that. I'll address the health warning below.

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont believe that I moderate any differently whether or not a poster happens to agree with my personal opinions or not. As above, if you believe you have examples of this, PM me/us and lets talk about it!
My personal view is that certain posters treat my opinions differently because I happen to be a mod, if I make points disagreeing with them the reaction is along the lines of "typical mod attitude" and there is no debate, it descends into childishness.

Ok, Health warning was a poorly worded phrase.
My point was that we are more likely to be deemed "childish" later on in a thread if we have been on the opposite side to you in the debate.
I'll PM you details of where I think this clearly happened in the thread as suggested.
I don't particularly want to.
What will be achieved if somehow I can convince you that you missed it?

You've thanked me for the input and moved on.
I still think there's a valid case for what I have suggested but that's this conversation ended by the looks of it.

GreeBo wrote: »

ahh grasshopper, you are learning!
Thanks for taking the time to post the feedback.

Thanks Sensei, someday I'll reach perfection.

Rikand

onlyfinewine wrote: »

And maybe notice the little yellow fellow with the big smile at the end of the post?::)

This. My post was a little but tongue in cheek and I'm sorry if you took it any other way greebo.

But thank you for responding to my post as you did!!

Overall I'm very happy with the modding on this forum


[ thats a genuine smiley, not a tongue-in-cheek smiley ]

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I completely agree that people shouldn't take moderation into their own hands.
For clarification to others, as my warning is mentioned on this thread, the warning I got last night was for making "childish" comments and not back seat moderation.
I can't say anything further publicly to dispute that I guess

Actually I wasnt referring to any particular incident at all there. See, people get paranoid and think Im doing things when I actually am not!

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Could I suggest that reported comments are responded to?
I've think I've made 2 or 3 reports this year and never got any response.
I may not have been correct in my reporting, but an acknowledgment that it has been reviewed and not seen as a valid report would only go to promote this activity that you are looking for.

Yep, it something that we has come up amongst mods across the board (har har) The "plan" is to thank the post so you know it has been received.
All reports are looked into, typically the response, if required, happens on the reported post directly, however note that there is no onus for a mod to explain why he did or did not take any action, reporting a post is to bring it to our attention if required, after that its up to the mods, cmods and admins to make the next step; its not going to be a place where we explain to the reporter why we did or didnt action something.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Ahem.... this thread?

This thread is not for discussing specific moderating incidents (as above) its about the forum in general.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Ok, Health warning was a poorly worded phrase.
My point was that we are more likely to be deemed "childish" later on in a thread if we have been on the opposite side to you in the debate.

Well I would strongly disagree with that, and I would categorically refute that even if it is happening, that its intentional.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I'll PM you details of where I think this clearly happened in the thread as suggested.
I don't particularly want to.
What will be achieved if somehow I can convince you that you missed it?

If you dont want to dont, but then you can hardly expect us to put much stock in what you are saying. Right now you are looking at it from only your own point of view, we also have our own. Remember that two posters posting the same post are not necessarily subjected to the same outcome, history is taken into account with moderating.

If you can convince us that we are doing something wrong, then we learn from it...thats kinda the point!

ajcurry123 wrote: »

You've thanked me for the input and moved on.
I still think there's a valid case for what I have suggested but that's this conversation ended by the looks of it.

Discussion about specific incidents will not continue here, but general discussion about how the forum is run/moderated is precisely what this thread is for, so if you have more, keep it coming.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Thanks Sensei, someday I'll reach perfection.

Never! There can be only one.

GreeBo

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

This. My post was a little but tongue in cheek and I'm sorry if you took it any other way greebo.

But thank you for responding to my post as you did!!

Overall I'm very happy with the modding on this forum


[ thats a genuine smiley, not a tongue-in-cheek smiley ]

I didnt take it in any way tbh, but if thats what people are thinking, I think its only fair and right that I answer it.

For the sake of achieving something with this thread, lets try to be uber clear when we are making a point that warrants a response and when we are not?

tbh I based my assumption that it was a real "question" on some public messages that some users had been having with each other, essentially making the same point your post addressed.

Thx!

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

For the sake of achieving something with this thread, lets try to be uber clear when we are making a point that warrants a response and when we are not?

tbh I based my assumption that it was a real "question" on some public messages that some users had been having with each other, essentially making the same point your post addressed.

Thx!

Can you advise where these public messages are located please? I have not been able to find them.

thanks.

PARlance

A very quick suggestion, not for the mods but for posters like myself.

I didn't send a PM/report a post last night as I thought it futile...the mod was continuing to post on the thread and I thought they chose to ignore what I "thought" at the time a post that was out of order.
What I didn't realise was that a previous post had been deleted by same mod and I was taking offense to someone referencing that deleted post.
Basically, I got my wires completely mixed up.
I had missed the deleted post and jumped caught the next flight to assumptionville.

The mods can't go around deleting every post/replies to and references to deleted posts.

I shouldn't have assumed that he just let it go. A PM would have saved a lot of hassle.

Point being, talk to your local mod, especially when you're annoyed.
Mod is question is not Charlie so that narrows it down
Going to bed now happy after a very good PM session with Greebo.
He is a human being after all.... A super human being

And no, I've not been drinking or doing anything stronger.

Keano

I really don't think this place has any issues. We get a troll or two every now and then but all in all the people who post in here are good folk. The boards society would have failed miserably if we did not have a decent crew posting, instead we got a society I think that can grow and grow.

ForeRight

No need to change anything in my humble opinion.

This place is great.

GreeBo

Anything that anyone feels is missing?
Maybe some extra sticky or something?
Be creative!

IanPoulter

GreeBo wrote: »

My personal view is that certain posters treat my opinions differently because I happen to be a mod, if I make points disagreeing with them the reaction is along the lines of "typical mod attitude" and there is no debate, it descends into childishness.

I don't believe you are treated differently because you're a mod. There comes a time in any arguement to just drop it and move on. You alway appear like a dog with a bone and you just never let go. You seem to want the last word always which comes across as a little petulent. Nothing to do with being a mod just your personality I guess.

GreeBo

IanPoulter wrote: »

I don't believe you are treated differently because you're a mod. There comes a time in any arguement to just drop it and move on. You alway appear like a dog with a bone and you just never let go. You seem to want the last word always which comes across as a little petulent. Nothing to do with being a mod just your personality I guess.

Everyone is free to move on from any thread at any time on here...thats kinda the point...its much more useful to move on than to start causing problems because you happen to disagree with someone else.

ForeRight

GreeBo wrote: »

Everyone is free to move on from any thread at any time on here...thats kinda the point...its much more useful to move on than to start causing problems because you happen to disagree with someone else.

There you go again getting the last word in

Gonna start calling you Matt Cooper on here.

FixdePitchmark

Life as a Mod

What I would give, to not be a mod
I would let all go and not give a sod
A life less ordinary, center stage
Deal with drunks, ego, youthful rage
It is Christmas and time, to forgive, forget
There is nothing, that has not been said or done yet
We will not look back at the wrongs of the 2012 past
Get out on the course, live life at full mast
Stupid poems, online warriors and playful acts
Half truths and bull****, false dreamer facts
We will open a new page, a new age a new year
We will thank the mods, thanklessly , crack a beer.
Don't go online, when you have had a few.
The fallout the next day is a sorry view.
So raise a glass to each other, less one upmanship.
Give credit to them, acknowledge your own chip.
So thanks to all, who keep it on the road.
They need the rest of us, to share the load
I've gone on too long, from the top of me head.
Stick to the golf, less poems, more bed.


Only a joke lads - see ye in 2013. Fair play the lads keeping the show on the road, I've seen other forums and it just is bull**** , winding each other up. I know that will happen with a load of egocentric loo laas like me on here. So all in all, great job by mods. They need to get involved in threads as at the end of the day they love golf too. So at least we have one thing in common - whilst we are an extraordinarily diverse bunch. As well as that there are some people who are great at arguing, they just love it. I would also reckon that the online persona of some people is not like them at all. I often laugh and say, I bet if i was in a pub with this lad, i'd have a great laugh. we just don't have the non verbals here and, that makes understanding a person very difficult.

So, don't worry , it is not like it is real life on here. Just open a malbec and relax.

Best of look, may see you in 2013 - I'm an even bigger prick in real life.

charlieIRL

thanks for all the comments so far everyone.

charlieIRL

About time I replied here, apologies for the delay - wonky laptop with wonky keys don't help.

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

if the greebo fella was more like that charlie fella I think this would be a happier place for all.

except for the lowry thread...charlie needs to be more like greebo in that thread

hey, I'm a big fan of the lad and want to see him doing the best he can.;)

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Secondly, I would like to suggest when one Mod is involved (actively posting) in a thread that involves a debate, then, if possible, the other Mod would look after moderating that thread.

I certainly feel, and know of several others that feel that biased moderation occurs in such instances.

I don't feel it's an intentional bias, I think it's only human nature that a mod would be less inclined to issue warnings to someone that is making the same points/argument as themself. I'd find it incredibly though not to let it influence me.

Both of us monitor every single thread here and where necessary, one or the other gets involved.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Could I suggest that reported comments are responded to?

every single reported post is viewed by the mods here and the category mods and dealt with accordingly, apologies if in dealing with the reported post that the person who reported it is not informed.

the lawman

Not sure if this is the place but I would like to thank all the posters in here who helped me through a really tough few weeks back in September after a golfing injury. You have no idea how much your thoughts and best wishes got me through those first few days. Was an eye-opener.

There was one weapon at the time but Greebo dealt with swiftly. Tin_Cup thanks for the gift and CharlieIrl for the offer. Thanks to thoscon for his concern and help.

A thanks also to AJ for sending some real nice PMs recently to see how I was coping. Really nice touch from a nice sort.

All in all the forum is great and packed with decent guys and gals.

Doff of the cap to the mods for all the work.

Myksyk

Thoroughly enjoyable forum. Have never had a problem with the moderation or moderators on here.

Milkers

This thread itself is a good snapshot of the forum in general. It's good but could be better with a little less of the last-word freak. I mean is this the feedback or the feedback to the feedback thread?

Having said that let's be honest it's a really well run forum so kudos to the mods and even more so to the opinionated but civil boardsies who hang around here on the reg.

Milkers

Also I think you would get a lot more feedback (maybe you don't want it?) if you unstickied this thread for a few days. A lot of people never bother looking at the top of the forum after they become regular visitors.

GreeBo

Milkers wrote: »

This thread itself is a good snapshot of the forum in general. It's good but could be better with a little less of the last-word freak. I mean is this the feedback or the feedback to the feedback thread?

Having said that let's be honest it's a really well run forum so kudos to the mods and even more so to the opinionated but civil boardsies who hang around here on the reg.

its a feedback thread. however if we didn't respond to posts what function would it serve? posters are entitled to answers imo.

m r c

Just a small point, I'd personally be a little bit slow to post new topics in case they have already been covered(most golf topics have been touched on in some way if one does a search) and in turn I'd be slow to drag up old ones too saving being told I was dragging up old topics etc. it's covered in the charter but what's better if someone wants to discuss something? It can be better to have your own topic title.

GreeBo

Lets keep this one just for feedback please...

GreeBo

m r c wrote: »

Just a small point, I'd personally be a little bit slow to post new topics in case they have already been covered(most golf topics have been touched on in some way if one does a search) and in turn I'd be slow to drag up old ones too saving being told I was dragging up old topics etc. it's covered in the charter but what's better if someone wants to discuss something? It can be better to have your own topic title.

yeah, it can feel like a bit of a tightrope, but honestly I wouldnt worry about it.
Like most forums, the same stuff is going to come up over and over again, look at the soccer or motors threads...its all "I want to buy a new" or "Boo, referees are paid off by united"
As long as a thread topic hasnt been done in the last month or so fire ahead with a new one, just do a quick search, if its like a year old then dont resurrect it, unless its a specifically long running thread.

Even then, most of the time if its just been done we will merge them for ya, its not a big issue (you are not going to get carded for it!)

Thx for feedback!

GreeBo

Not sure why you deleted your post Milkers I think its a fair point.
In any case, closing this now for a while to free up some sticky space.

If you have more feedback to give please either PM a mod or thank this post and we can reopen.

GetInTheHole!

Okay so seeing that my Poll regarding the PGA Tour thread was prematurely locked down - I will raise the issue here as requested.

To be honest I thought the Poll would be a quick and constructive tool to get a good sense of how all forum users think the forum should progress on this topic - as opposed to the opinion of one specific moderator.

Obviously - I was incorrect though.

Greebo - can you please confirm why you are so attached to the idea of the Superthread? So much so that we cannot even debate it's merit in a thread with a Poll to do just that?

I generally don't like to get involved in stuff like this - but the manner in which you are dismissing any opinions other than your own on this topic (and more increasingly on other topics besides) is becoming more and more frustrating.
So much so that I believe it is to the detrement of the forum as a whole.

Good established Posters whose input I used to enjoy on this forum (Shrieking Sheet*, MisterShifter* etc.) are becoming less and less frequent from what I can see.
It would be a pit for even more to lose interest over time.

*Obviously I cannot vouch for the opinions of either of these. They are just an example of posters that I do not see as much as years gone by.

realgolfgeek

well put,

I don't see the big deal of a poll whatsoever. Leave it open for two days and majority vote gets the go ahead. It's not rocket science is it.

Greebo, you did it for experimental purposes but obviously alot of people don't like it, why dismiss a simple vote ?

PARlance

I'm in favour of the thread, but at the same time, for tournaments that generate sufficient interest, I think it should be fine to start a separate thread if wanted. i.e I would have thought the Players Championship could/would have had a separate thread.

The main reason I'm in favour of the EPIC :eek: thread is that it gives an outlet to post on the lesser tournaments where a lack of excitement in the build up has meant that nobody had started a thread. I think a lot of us tune into these late in round 3 or 4, I'd certainly feel a bit daft creating a new thread just to make a comment on something at that late stage of a tournament.

Some of the reaction would lead you to believe that there was thread set up each and every week for both PGA and Euro Tour events and that this practice was stopped by a nasty mod.
The reality was that tournament threads were fairly sporadic and whilst there might not have been sufficient interest for someone to go and start a thread, then can throw up a few talking points and I welcome a place to post them in.

I agree this forum has lost some good posters, I was on the verge of leaving myself a few times (not saying I'm a good poster ) and it's a shame to see lads drop out or hear of lads thinking about it.... but at the same time, actions and reactions of some leave a lot to be desired.
Yes, there may be frustration, I've been there myself, but some are going around it the wrong way altogether.

GreeBo

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

Okay so seeing that my Poll regarding the PGA Tour thread was prematurely locked down - I will raise the issue here as requested.

To be honest I thought the Poll would be a quick and constructive tool to get a good sense of how all forum users think the forum should progress on this topic - as opposed to the opinion of one specific moderator.

Obviously - I was incorrect though.

Greebo - can you please confirm why you are so attached to the idea of the Superthread? So much so that we cannot even debate it's merit in a thread with a Poll to do just that?

Firstly, your thread/poll was not prematurely shut down, that is not the appropriate way to raise issues about how the golf forum is run, this feedback thread was created specifically for that purpose.

The moderators are responsible for the running and maintenance of the forum, by all means we want users to suggest ideas, but it is not a pure democracy where we, the mods, will be steamrollered into things by a users poll. Thats not how the forum runs, successfully.

For the record, I am not particularly attached to any thread, its not even "my" thread, it was suggested (by a poster, not a moderator) that the single thread idea might work well for the two main tours.

These threads were created to see how it worked out, and I personally think they are working well, you drop in and see what people are talking about if you are interested, if you arent you dont.
They have only been running a few weeks and no one has deemed it necessary to create specific event threads, even for the so called 5th major of the year. Note that no one was prohibited from doing so.

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

I generally don't like to get involved in stuff like this - but the manner in which you are dismissing any opinions other than your own on this topic (and more increasingly on other topics besides) is becoming more and more frustrating.
So much so that I believe it is to the detrement of the forum as a whole.

Again, Im not dismissing anything, back on page 1 of the thread I advised people to raise any concerns or ideas in this feedback thread, before now, no one chose to do so.

As a poster I (or any mod) am perfectly entitled to disagree with any other poster (or mod). Opinions are not left behind after the modding ceremony...

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

Good established Posters whose input I used to enjoy on this forum (Shrieking Sheet*, MisterShifter* etc.) are becoming less and less frequent from what I can see.
It would be a pit for even more to lose interest over time.

*Obviously I cannot vouch for the opinions of either of these. They are just an example of posters that I do not see as much as years gone by.

I would put it to you that perhaps a lot of things go on in the forum that you and other members are not aware of or privy to regarding the reasons behind some posters leaving.

I would also possibly differ in the opinion of what makes a "good" poster.

Suffice to say, the forum has never been as popular as it is now, we are averaging around 150 posts per day at the moment and the forum is running smoothly (at least in my opinion, you are free and welcome to dispute that!)

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

well put,

I don't see the big deal of a poll whatsoever. Leave it open for two days and majority vote gets the go ahead. It's not rocket science is it.

Greebo, you did it for experimental purposes but obviously alot of people don't like it, why dismiss a simple vote ?

Based on the numbers in the poll, it was pretty 50/50 so I think your assertion that "obviously a lot of people dont like it" is false.

Lots of people will not bother to make a new thread just to make some small comment on something they saw or though, they will however add to an existing thread. Thats the point of the "Epic" style threads, you dont need to have something groundbreaking to make a new post. That new post triggers something in others and you get a conversation or debate...which is the point of boards.ie existing int he first place.

Based on the numbers in the PGA thread, I would consider it pretty successful so far, and dont see any real drawbacks. (again, feel free to point them out if you do)

The only issue raised was that people who dont read the thread often would be several pages out of date when they do decide to read it...that to me is a non issue for a couple of reasons.
1) the forum should be run to suit regular posters/readers, not people who want to dip in and out.
2) its trivial to click on the "last page" link when you do want to get up to date news.

Remember, there was nothing to stop someone created a TPC thread, it was a big event and probably could have supported a separate thread, but was there a need when we have a thread that lots of people are already posting it...I would say no, but maybe that opinion will change over time if we see issues with the approach or if the threads are not being used.

SSK

I don't post in the Golf Forum as much because I don't like certain elements of the moderation, simple as.

The current stubbornness over the PGA Tour thread is just a snapshot. Some excellent posters have voiced their dislike of it, and in spite of the mods assertion that they're open to opinions on it, its quite clear that as its the baby of a mod it seems as if its here to stay. And that's not to say that I don't think its a good idea, in fact it has some merits.

Quantity of posts has gone up while quality has gone down IMO. While seeing constant posts about someones bets grates after a while, the complete elimination of all gambling talk has obviously led to some quality posters offering good analysis on tournaments shying away from posting due to the extremely harsh penalties for even the most passing reference to a bet or odds.

Edit - Just a final point on the Mega Thread. I would be reluctant to start a separate tournament thread even for a big tournament as I would feel that 2 threads posting about the same thing would be overkill and would lead to confusion over which thread to post in and would dilute the quality of the thread, particularly if a mod is openly pushing the Mega Thread.

FixdePitchmark

why are things so tense and uptight around here ?

That is a question .

GreeBo

SSK wrote: »

I don't post in the Golf Forum as much because I don't like certain elements of the moderation, simple as.

The current stubbornness over the PGA Tour thread is just a snapshot. Some excellent posters have voiced their dislike of it, and in spite of the mods assertion that they're open to opinions on it, its quite clear that as its the baby of a mod it seems as if its here to stay. And that's not to say that I don't think its a good idea, in fact it has some merits.

You seem to have missed the several times I have pointed out that the thread was *nothing* to do with me...I simply was asked to create it.

What stubbornness do you see? All I see is a refusal to allow a certain vocal group of posters to dictate to everyone else how the site should be run without giving some other options a chance at success.

We are open to opinions on it, however that doesnt mean that we listen to the first opinion and close a perfectly good thread. There a plenty of opinions that like the idea of the thread (you yourself see merit in it)

Do you think that "some excellent posters" have more rights than other posters and that if they dont like something thats it, it should be removed?

SSK wrote: »

Quantity of posts has gone up while quality has gone down IMO. While seeing constant posts about someones bets grates after a while, the complete elimination of all gambling talk has obviously led to some quality posters offering good analysis on tournaments shying away from posting due to the extremely harsh penalties for even the most passing reference to a bet or odds.

Please read the charter about betting. There is no problem with someone making a passing reference to their bets as long as that is not the main point behind them posting. The purpose of this is, as you say yourself, it gets boring reading about peoples bets that essentially mean nothing to you personally. There is a forum thats dedicated to people posting about the own bets, thats where those posts belong.
There has never and will never be a penalty for someone adding in "and I have X at 5/1 so I hope he wins".
The problem was that we had a glut of people *only* posting that and it adds *nothing* to the forum.

SSK wrote: »

Edit - Just a final point on the Mega Thread. I would be reluctant to start a separate tournament thread even for a big tournament as I would feel that 2 threads posting about the same thing would be overkill and would lead to confusion over which thread to post in and would dilute the quality of the thread, particularly if a mod is openly pushing the Mega Thread.

There wouldnt be two threads posting about the same thing if someone started a tournament specific thread, people would naturally post there I reckon?
Again, Im not pushing anything other than giving the Mega Thread a chance; imo at the moment its being dismissed out of hand, possibly largely because I was the one who created it (albeit on behalf of a user).

From what I can see the thread is popular, has a relatively high number of views and posts and so serves a good purpose.
/edit I would say the European tour thread is a almighty failure and should be allowed to rest in peace.

I honestly dont get why people arent willing to give it a chance.

SSK

GreeBo wrote: »

You seem to have missed the several times I have pointed out that the thread was *nothing* to do with me...I simply was asked to create it.

What stubbornness do you see? All I see is a refusal to allow a certain vocal group of posters to dictate to everyone else how the site should be run without giving some other options a chance at success.

We are open to opinions on it, however that doesnt mean that we listen to the first opinion and close a perfectly good thread. There a plenty of opinions that like the idea of the thread (you yourself see merit in it)

Do you think that "some excellent posters" have more rights than other posters and that if they dont like something thats it, it should be removed?


Please read the charter about betting. There is no problem with someone making a passing reference to their bets as long as that is not the main point behind them posting. The purpose of this is, as you say yourself, it gets boring reading about peoples bets that essentially mean nothing to you personally. There is a forum thats dedicated to people posting about the own bets, thats where those posts belong.
There has never and will never be a penalty for someone adding in "and I have X at 5/1 so I hope he wins".
The problem was that we had a glut of people *only* posting that and it adds *nothing* to the forum.



There wouldnt be two threads posting about the same thing if someone started a tournament specific thread, people would naturally post there I reckon?
Again, Im not pushing anything other than giving the Mega Thread a chance; imo at the moment its being dismissed out of hand, possibly largely because I was the one who created it (albeit on behalf of a user).

From what I can see the thread is popular, has a relatively high number of views and posts and so serves a good purpose.
/edit I would say the European tour thread is a almighty failure and should be allowed to rest in peace.

I honestly dont get why people arent willing to give it a chance.

My issue is that you are dismissing some good quality posters opinions on the matter. These are vocal posters for a reason. And considering you were asked to set up the thread by presumably an individual or a small group of posters and are vehemently advocating the thread, surely that constitutes elements of the type of dictatorship you seem so eager to avoid?

And again, I am in favour of an all-encompassing thread however I would hate to see it stifle the setting up of threads for big tournaments because the volume of posts becomes harder to follow in a Mega Thread.

I received a warning over what i would consider a passing reference to a bet in the context of a much bigger discussion. I didn't see the need for such over-moderation at the time and I still don't. Perhaps a slight adaptation to the charter might be beneficial as it surely hasn't escaped your attention that the quality of posting, particularly in relation to the pro tours has diminished signigificantly.

Ilik Urgee

Wasn't aware threads could be opened for specific events.
There were 34 different posters between the start and finish(I included 12am Thursday upto 1am Monday morning) of the Players on the Epic Thread,namely

Greebo
sector
Nuri Sahin
realgolfgeek
Whip It
Creasy Bear
Snowdrifts
copacetic
fullstop
Keano A Legend
kmart6
Weetabix
Rickylovesuall
Almaviva
mag
Russman
nuts86
Brain Stroking
Wombatman
bustercherry
The Pontiac
RikkFlair
kryogen
YaYaBanana
TopperHarley
Jimdagym
Foreright
REBELSAFC
me89
Aidric
alxmorgan
AGC
loadwire
big drive

with a total of 119 posts(posts *69 through to*188).

I did the same with last years corresponding tournament here.

There were 34 posters(again from 12.00am Thursaday to 1am Monday morning),namely

Weetabix
SSK
kph
Tones69
Nedser 101
FDP
donnacha
Dr. Colossus
The Poet85
charlieIRL
Russman
flugel
moycullen14
AdilaMan
Whyner
pinkdoubleeagle
link2007
matthew8
ProV
Phoenix Park
Aidric
staker
Borisss
Snowdrifts
Nuri Sahin
bigtimecharlie
fatherbuzcagney
Benny Cake
getoffthepot
lmao
sunbabe08
Spudmonkey
paintitblack
fullstop


with a total of 55 posts(*16 to post*70).

Surprised at how near-identical the figures are,I would've said 2013 should've been a lot bigger in poster numbers. Also there's a few posters on the 12 list who don't even post in the forum any more.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

Based on the numbers in the poll, it was pretty 50/50 so I think your assertion that "obviously a lot of people dont like it" is false..

Maybe it was nearly 50/50 (although it was more in favour of separate threads) ... but that's not my point

my point is that we didn't get a clear indication as the poll didn't have time to fart as it was locked that quickly.

my question still wasn't answered,
what's the big deal in putting up a simple poll and putting it to bed ?

GreeBo

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Wasn't aware threads could be opened for specific events.
There were 34 different posters between the start and finish(I included 12am Thursday upto 1am Monday morning) of the Players on the Epic Thread,namely

Greebo
sector
Nuri Sahin
realgolfgeek
Whip It
Creasy Bear
Snowdrifts
copacetic
fullstop
Keano A Legend
kmart6
Weetabix
Rickylovesuall
Almaviva
mag
Russman
nuts86
Brain Stroking
Wombatman
bustercherry
The Pontiac
RikkFlair
kryogen
YaYaBanana
TopperHarley
Jimdagym
Foreright
REBELSAFC
me89
Aidric
alxmorgan
AGC
loadwire
big drive

with a total of 119 posts(posts *69 through to*188).

I did the same with last years corresponding tournament here.

There were 34 posters(again from 12.00am Thursaday to 1am Monday morning),namely

Weetabix
SSK
kph
Tones69
Nedser 101
FDP
donnacha
Dr. Colossus
The Poet85
charlieIRL
Russman
flugel
moycullen14
AdilaMan
Whyner
pinkdoubleeagle
link2007
matthew8
ProV
Phoenix Park
Aidric
staker
Borisss
Snowdrifts
Nuri Sahin
bigtimecharlie
fatherbuzcagney
Benny Cake
getoffthepot
lmao
sunbabe08
Spudmonkey
paintitblack
fullstop


with a total of 55 posts(*16 to post*70).

Surprised at how near-identical the figures are,I would've said 2013 should've been a lot bigger in poster numbers. Also there's a few posters on the 12 list who don't even post in the forum any more.

So the same amount of posters generating twice the posting volume, I'd call that successful (obviously the quality of posts is subjective though)

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

Maybe it was nearly 50/50 (although it was more in favour of separate threads) ... but that's not my point

my point is that we didn't get a clear indication as the poll didn't have time to fart as it was locked that quickly.

my question still wasn't answered,
what's the big deal in putting up a simple poll and putting it to bed ?

Your question was answered, thats inappropriate and not how decisions are reached.
We have seen in the past (betting "issue" anyone) that putting up a poll leads to a (false) expectation that the poll result will be the overriding decision on the topic in question.

GetInTheHole!

When will the "trial period" end so and how will a decision be reached?

If a Poll is deemed "inappropriate" by a mod then how else can the opinions of posters be taken into account?

Or will be it be a case of that when everybody just agrees with the direction that a particular mod wants - then trial period will be deemed a success?

I am not sure why I am even bothering here as I can only see an outcome that aligns with the opinion of Greebo as being the only way this will be resolved.
There certainly seems no room for debate in any case.

GreeBo

SSK wrote: »

My issue is that you are dismissing some good quality posters opinions on the matter. These are vocal posters for a reason. And considering you were asked to set up the thread by presumably an individual or a small group of posters and are vehemently advocating the thread, surely that constitutes elements of the type of dictatorship you seem so eager to avoid?

Why do you think we are dismissing opinions? Because we dont immediately act on them? I think you need to accept that we are taking all suggestions onboard and evaluating them...

The thread was created upon request as there was no real downside to creating a thread, not creating one means that nothing ever changes.
I am vehemently in support of allowing the thread a *chance* to succeed.

I cant see how that is a dictatorship...

SSK wrote: »

And again, I am in favour of an all-encompassing thread however I would hate to see it stifle the setting up of threads for big tournaments because the volume of posts becomes harder to follow in a Mega Thread.

Likewise, if we think its detrimental to the forum then it would be closed, thus far (and based on the stats from Ilik) I would say its encouraging rather than discouraging posts?

SSK wrote: »

I received a warning over what i would consider a passing reference to a bet in the context of a much bigger discussion. I didn't see the need for such over-moderation at the time and I still don't. Perhaps a slight adaptation to the charter might be beneficial as it surely hasn't escaped your attention that the quality of posting, particularly in relation to the pro tours has diminished signigificantly.

You didnt receive a warning, there was an on thread warning given to posters after 3 of you engaged in a conversation that was purely about betting, meant little to anyone else and could easily have been taken to PM.
Thats not a passing reference and, left unchecked, would result on other users doing the same. You quickly end up with pages of "I have X at Y" and very little golf discussion.

I wouldn't like to think that posters are avoiding the threads because of the "ban" on gambling talk, if you feel this is the case can you explain why someone would avoid the golf forum because of this?

GreeBo

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

When will the "trial period" end so and how will a decision be reached?

If a Poll is deemed "inappropriate" by a mod then how else can the opinions of posters be taken into account?

After a "sufficient" amount of time. As already said, I would say that clearly the European tour thread (and perhaps the tour itself!) is not interesting enough to posters.
We will look at the facts of the threads (frequency, amount, quality of posts & posters) and make a decision based on that, or perhaps someone will make a point that decides it either way.
What will not happen is the thread gets closed because people moan about it and dont articulate points about why the thread shouldnt exist.

The same thing goes for any decisions made.

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

Or will be it be a case of that when everybody just agrees with the direction that a particular mod wants - then trial period will be deemed a success?

You seem to be incorrectly associating my reluctance to shutdown an idea without giving it a chance with a preference on my part as a mod. Again, it was not my idea for this thread, I have no more attachment to it than any other thread.

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

I am not sure why I am even bothering here as I can only see an outcome that aligns with the opinion of Greebo as being the only way this will be resolved.
There certainly seems no room for debate in any case.

We are currently engaging in a debate...a debate is not one side capitulating to another after 1 comment.

Lots of posters disagree with you on this topic, try to convince them of your opinion with logic and facts rather than the above quote when you dont immediately get your way...

GetInTheHole!

GreeBo wrote: »

Lots of posters disagree with you on this topic, try to convince them of your opinion with logic and facts rather than the above quote when you dont immediately get your way...

The irony in the above is absolutely staggering.

Good luck with your endeavours Greebo - I wish the rest of this forum all the best.

Ilik Urgee

GreeBo wrote: »

So the same amount of posters generating twice the posting volume, I'd call that successful (obviously the quality of posts is subjective though)

I don't think there are as many positives to be taken from those stats as you like to think tbh.
The increase in posters in a 12 month gap is completely stagnant,which should lead to questions as to how the whole forum is run.

You see fit to skew stats to suit your opinions and further divide the posting community.

Mister Sifter

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

The irony in the above is absolutely staggering.

Good luck with your endeavours Greebo - I wish the rest of this forum all the best.

I'm with Getinthehole! ... everything that's wrong about this forum is on display in this thread. It's a pale imitation of what it once was - but hey, the numbers of users are up so everything is wonderful.

No wonder pretty much every decent contributor either no longer bothers with the forum or only shows up once in a while to dick about. Well done Greeboo - keep up the good work.

GreeBo

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

The irony in the above is absolutely staggering.

Good luck with your endeavours Greebo - I wish the rest of this forum all the best.

I have attempted to show how the single thread can be beneficial and to counter the few arguments that people have proposed.
What have you done?