Social Media caused the suicide of a politician?

Good loser

M three wrote: »

So Shane mcentee's death is being spun as the electorates fault?
What a load of nonsense. Politicians in this country are paid serious amounts of money for doing what many would rightly say is a pretty shoddy job.
His death is another attempt to further silence any level of criticism of politicians by an already hobbled media.
Just look at the largest broadcaster in the state, rte, they're little more than the PR wing of whatever useless government we have at the time

That's absurdly over the top.

Threat and intimidation are widespread in political debate in this country.

I mean of the elected by the electorate - sometimes spurred on by the media and sometimes (too often) indulged in by politicians themselves. The specialists in this latter regard are Sinn Fein. Remember the nauseating personalised taunting of Pat Rabbitte in the budget debate by M L Macdonald.

M three

Qualitymark wrote: »

Perhaps this isn't the time to talk about this?

However, since it's on the table... The Indo is referring to 'vile' comments on social media. Apparently these were in response to comments the late Mr McEntee made, including one where he said in relation to the controversial cut in respite care grants that "you could stay in a top hotel for €700 a week" and said "people just have to get on with it". http://www.build.ie/national_news.asp?newsid=155456

I saw no comments; I didn't know of or hear of Mr McEntee until yesterday's tragedy. I would suspect that he may have had other issues.

I feel so sorry for his family, facing this terrible blow at Christmas, and every Christmas to come remembering it.

I can completely understand why many may not have much sympathy for McEntee, given his crass comments towards carers, who will be suffering plenty too because of the cuts the government, which junior minister mcentee was a part of, implemented

tayto lover

leggo wrote: »

No, I'm not helping you resurrect your weird, little argument that Shane McEntee killed himself because of broken, pre-election promises by the government (which, conveniently, is specifically your own main problem with the government; pre-election promises aren't even discussed in the media these days).

You're trying to trivialise a man's suicide to suit your own agenda. And no amount of Vincent Browne-like, "Just answer the damn question!" posturing is going to make me engage you on it. You're talking ****e and I'm calling it for what it is. Now stop.

Suicide is far too serious to trivialise.
Govt policies has caused suicides and I am aware of some.
Your refusal to answer the two questions says a lot about you. I didn't expect anything more from reading some of your posts tbh. As for pre-election promises not being discussed in the media these days ?? where have you been hiding. Were you not aware of all the Labour people jumping ship??

GRMA

leggo wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'd specifically blame social media, that's just a medium, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if abuse from the public led to a politician committing suicide.

I've told this story here before, but I remember encountering Brian Lenihan at the height of it while working security in a venue. He was there to see his daughter (I believe) perform. Upon leaving, though, he was cornered by what I can only call a mob of angry people yelling abuse at him. Say what you want about Lenihan (and I'm by no means a FF-sympathiser or someone who considers anyone who dies a saint), but all I saw then was a man who wanted one nice night with the family (something we all deserve, regardless of what our job is) and had it destroyed, while damn close to being physically attacked, because people didn't like his political policies. I couldn't but sympathise, regardless of how much I disagreed with his professional views.

I encourage political participation, but I also feel we have to learn that there's a right and wrong way to participate. Using public figures as figureheads that we see ourselves as entitled to vent at and bully isn't the right way. It also doesn't work: would you be more inclined to listen to the educated person who can intelligently and rationally discuss an issue in full with you, or the foaming-at-the-mouth, enraged type who screams half-truths in your face before trying to deck you?

Well, tough sh!t.

Thats the least that man deserved. He and his mates fcuked up the entire country for generations

And seriously, if we are supposed to sympathize with politicians who are systematically targeting the vulnerable because they get angry reactions from the public, well they can go and sing dixie

My sympathy is with the carers, the poor, the homeless, those shackled with massive mortgages, those whose kids have emigrated, those collecting food packages etc etc and not with people pulling in massive wages and pensions.

Its sad that this man has died but its disgraceful that his political cronies are attacking critics over this and trying to silence with guilt. even worse is the print media attacking social media and trying to demonise it (nothing at all to do with social media killing papers I'm sure)

Good loser

GRMA wrote: »

Well, tough sh!t.

Thats the least that man deserved. He and his mates fcuked up the entire country for generations

And seriously, if we are supposed to sympathize with politicians who are systematically targeting the vulnerable because they get angry reactions from the public, well they can go and sing dixie

My sympathy is with the carers, the poor, the homeless, those shackled with massive mortgages, those whose kids have emigrated, those collecting food packages etc etc and not with people pulling in massive wages and pensions.

Its sad that this man has died but its disgraceful that his political cronies are attacking critics over this and trying to silence with guilt. even worse is the print media attacking social media and trying to demonise it (nothing at all to do with social media killing papers I'm sure)

That's outrageous.

You divide people into the good and the wicked. Look into your own heart.

'The dividing line between good and evil goes through the heart of every man'

Qualitymark

Good loser wrote: »

You divide people into the good and the wicked.

Eh? Does he? I didn't see that in his post.

JRant

What's interesting in this matter is how quick the media and politicians are to deride social media in a situation like this terrible tradegy. Yet the media networks now get a vast amount of their content from just such avenues. Politicians are also more than happy to prostitute themselves on any social media they can to spread their lies for free and then have the gaul to give out when people rightly call them what they are on it.

My thoughts go to the poor family left behind to pick up the pieces.
Blaming social media doesn't do anything to address the real problems underlying suicide. Whats to say he wasn't receiving phonecalls or old fashioned hate mail in the post, which is a lit more anonymous than any internet medium.

washman3

The comments from John Bruton on radio today were an insult to the intelligence of the people of this nation. just goes to show the low that these guys are willing to go in an effort to silence people.
He used the unfortunate death of a FG colleague, Shane McEntee (a good man) as a political oppurtunity to implement a crazy law that would stall democracy.
Luckily however, most people can see this stunt for what it is, from a man from whom we would'nt expect much more.:mad:

JRant

Good loser wrote: »

That's absurdly over the top.

Threat and intimidation are widespread in political debate in this country.

I mean of the elected by the electorate - sometimes spurred on by the media and sometimes (too often) indulged in by politicians themselves. The specialists in this latter regard are Sinn Fein. Remember the nauseating personalised taunting of Pat Rabbitte in the budget debate by M L Macdonald.

Without wanting to stray off topic I would like to say that it is posts like this that have us in the quagmire. I remember the debate between the two and there was only one person engaging in those traits you describe, here's a hint for you it wasn't Mary Lou McDonald.
The amount of arrogance, intimidation and downright school yard behaviour that takes place in the Dial by the Government is an absolute disgrace.

liammur

Surely the bertie ahern suicide remark will go down as the worst ever quote from a politician, and a black mark for the country that he was able to get away with it.

Good loser

Qualitymark wrote: »

Eh? Does he? I didn't see that in his post.

From his post

The wicked: Brian Lenihan and his mates. Politicians targetting the vulnerable. Political cronies.

The good: Carers. Homeless. Poor. Mortgagees. Parents of kids that emigrated.

Absurd simplifications. Weren't two Wexford carers convicted of letting the mother of one of them die by neglect?

Perhaps (who knows) the entire political class are more caring than the 'poor'. Being poor doesn't make one virtuous.

Qualitymark

Good loser wrote: »

From his post

The wicked: Brian Lenihan and his mates. Politicians targetting the vulnerable. Political cronies.

The good: Carers. Homeless. Poor. Mortgagees. Parents of kids that emigrated.

Absurd simplifications. Weren't two Wexford carers convicted of letting the mother of one of them die by neglect?

Perhaps (who knows) the entire political class are more caring than the 'poor'. Being poor doesn't make one virtuous.

Perhaps the entire political class are deeply caring, who knows.


This is the post - I see no reference to good and evil here, only to his personal sympathies.

GRMA wrote: »

Well, tough sh!t.

Thats the least that man deserved. He and his mates fcuked up the entire country for generations

And seriously, if we are supposed to sympathize with politicians who are systematically targeting the vulnerable because they get angry reactions from the public, well they can go and sing dixie

My sympathy is with the carers, the poor, the homeless, those shackled with massive mortgages, those whose kids have emigrated, those collecting food packages etc etc and not with people pulling in massive wages and pensions.

Its sad that this man has died but its disgraceful that his political cronies are attacking critics over this and trying to silence with guilt. even worse is the print media attacking social media and trying to demonise it (nothing at all to do with social media killing papers I'm sure)

Good loser

JRant wrote: »

Without wanting to stray off topic I would like to say that it is posts like this that have us in the quagmire. I remember the debate between the two and there was only one person engaging in those traits you describe, here's a hint for you it wasn't Mary Lou McDonald.
The amount of arrogance, intimidation and downright school yard behaviour that takes place in the Dial by the Government is an absolute disgrace.

The Dail is even steven in that regard in general - the numbers may give the Govt a volume edge but that's to be expected.

You might admire Mary Lou's taunting but I found it distasteful.

My general complaint is against the electorate/ the public/ the people. They whinge and threaten and have only the smallest understanding of how things might be fixed. Watch VB for a few nights to see what I mean.

goose_gladwell

i dont like the way this country is going

people have developed a grotesque sense of entitlement towards the state , they feel the goverment should attend to their every need and if any politican fails this taks , individuals ( pumped full of righteous indignation ) feel they have the right to hound polticans to hell without remorse , im also sick of this annointing of the poor as being unconditionally rightous , people like travellers or scumbags who never worked a day in their lives are classed as heroes by the likes of vincent browne , theese people have seem to have no responsibilitys and any politican who fails to meet all their demands is themselves labelled as scum

political discourse have become poisionous

Paddy De Plasterer

the type of gutter tactics that Vincent Browne and the Sindo introduced here has poisened the well and helped create a frenzy. Most people can enjoy a reasonable Christmas, retail sales are higher than any time for last 5 years. But where were V Browne & Sindo during Celtic Tiger bubble myth ?

goose_gladwell

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

the type of gutter tactics that Vincent Browne and the Sindo introduced here has poisened the well and helped create a frenzy. Most people can enjoy a reasonable Christmas, retail sales are higher than any time for last 5 years. But where were V Browne & Sindo during Celtic Tiger bubble myth ?

vincent browne is far left

the sindo is centre right

the two dont belong in t he same sentance , thats not to say both dont do harm however

tayto lover

goose_gladwell wrote: »

i dont like the way this country is going

people have developed a grotesque sense of entitlement towards the state , they feel the goverment should attend to their every need and if any politican fails this taks , individuals ( pumped full of righteous indignation ) feel they have the right to hound polticans to hell without remorse , im also sick of this annointing of the poor as being unconditionally rightous , people like travellers or scumbags who never worked a day in their lives are classed as heroes by the likes of vincent browne , theese people have seem to have no responsibilitys and any politican who fails to meet all their demands is themselves labelled as scum

political discourse have become poisionous

I have seen loads of threads slating nurses, teachers, garda, bus drivers etc.
i wonder if any of these committed suicide as a result. It's funny how only the politicians seem to be getting sympathy. I think they all deserve it.

goose_gladwell

tayto lover wrote: »

I have seen loads of threads slating nurses, teachers, garda, bus drivers etc.
i wonder if any of these committed suicide as a result. It's funny how only the politicians seem to be getting sympathy. I think they all deserve it.

the minority of people who dont kneel before nurses and guards on this site are rounded on pretty quickly

some professions are given sacred cow status in this country

at the other end of the spectrum are politicans who it has been decided are fair game for being universally treated with contempt

tayto lover

goose_gladwell wrote: »

the minority of people who dont kneel before nurses and guards on this site are rounded on pretty quickly

some professions are given sacred cow status in this country

at the other end of the spectrum are politicans who it has been decided are fair game for being universally treated with contempt

I see plenty of support for politicians on these boards. No shortage of it at all.

JRant

Good loser wrote: »

The Dail is even steven in that regard in general - the numbers may give the Govt a volume edge but that's to be expected.

You might admire Mary Lou's taunting but I found it distasteful.

My general complaint is against the electorate/ the public/ the people. They whinge and threaten and have only the smallest understanding of how things might be fixed. Watch VB for a few nights to see what I mean.

To be honest watching any Dail debate makes my blood boil. You wouldn't get that carry on in a school debate. Barrett has zero control over the house and needs to seriously get it under control or step down.

So your argument is that it's the peoples fault for the lies being peddled to them.
If we the people can't expect even a small amount of honesty from those who were elected then what's the point?
The main problem we have with politicians is that realistically we're only a democracy every 4 years or so. They can say whatever they want to get elected, then sit back and collect a huge salary/pension with no accountability. We have to have some device to get rid of liars, fraudsters and general gombeens from the Dail. They are a stain on all of us.

These people choose to live in the public arena, it's unfortunate, but not unexpected, that from time to time they will receive negative feedback. If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.

goose_gladwell

tayto lover wrote: »

I see plenty of support for politicians on these boards. No shortage of it at all.

its dwarfed by the amount of vitriol directed at the political class

tayto lover

goose_gladwell wrote: »

its dwarfed by the amount of vitriol directed at the political class

Yes but you have to remember that the same political class make decisions which effect so many people, not all of them good or even fair.

leggo

Fact is: people who argue that politicians deserve to get abuse are, to me, like people who argue that bold children deserve to get beaten. They understand that punishment needs to be administered but aren't intelligent enough to figure out a way to administer it effectively. So they just behave like scumbags and, ultimately, create more problems than they attempt to solve.

goose_gladwell

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes but you have to remember that the same political class make decisions which effect so many people, not all of them good or even fair.

so what , i dont believe that the goverment has a duty to protect or even care for me apart from providng a police force , border control and legal framework , anyone who gets indignant at that idea is both naive and petulant IMO

thats not to say i dont think the goverment shouldnt see to it that the institutions of the state opperate in a functional and transparrent way , its just the way the whole system is potrayed , goverment is expected to be a caring mother who dries your eyes when you cry and washes your dirty laundry

enormous sense of entitlement in this country

tayto lover

leggo wrote: »

Fact is: people who argue that politicians deserve to get abuse are, to me, like people who argue that bold children deserve to get beaten. They understand that punishment needs to be administered but aren't intelligent enough to figure out a way to administer it effectively. So they just behave like scumbags and, ultimately, create more problems than they attempt to solve.

Do you want me to post a list of scumbag type comments made by politicians?
There are plenty. It's not confined to non politicians by any means. Being a politician does not make you intelligent as we know well living here.

michael999999

The elephant in the room here is the 5 politicians using The Irish Times, to publicise the fact that they had pranked called Mattie Mc Grath.

Surely this is a form of bullying through "The paper of record"!

amen

No but what is needed, in my view, is some form of validation of a users identity on any social media site that's has the purpose of offering people of forum to share their view on politics, economics, etc....

I gave up after the fourth page but tondef I assume you will be using your real name from now on in all posts on boards?

tayto lover

goose_gladwell wrote: »

so what , i dont believe that the goverment has a duty to protect or even care for me apart from providng a police force , border control and legal framework , anyone who gets indignant at that idea is both naive and petulant IMO

thats not to say i dont think the goverment shouldnt see to it that the institutions of the state opperate in a functional and transparrent way , its just the way the whole system is potrayed , goverment is expected to be a caring mother who dries your eyes when you cry and washes your dirty laundry

enormous sense of entitlement in this country

The only sense of entitlement I want is truth.
No chance of getting that from them though :rolleyes:

PeadarCo

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes but you have to remember that the same political class make decisions which effect so many people, not all of them good or even fair.

Also remember politicians are human being, ordinary people. They're not gods. They are in a tough situation and no matter what they do they will upset someone and people have to realise that. People are entitled to be upset but there's a line between complaining respectfully and bullying. Unfortunately in the current situation some people will suffer and there's nothing politicians can do they're only human.

Social media is just a new way of doing it as others mentioned telephone and traditional media can be just as bad.

goose_gladwell

tayto lover wrote: »

The only sense of entitlement I want is truth.
No chance of getting that from them though :rolleyes:

the truth is subjective

JRant

goose_gladwell wrote: »

i dont like the way this country is going

people have developed a grotesque sense of entitlement towards the state , they feel the goverment should attend to their every need and if any politican fails this taks , individuals ( pumped full of righteous indignation ) feel they have the right to hound polticans to hell without remorse , im also sick of this annointing of the poor as being unconditionally rightous , people like travellers or scumbags who never worked a day in their lives are classed as heroes by the likes of vincent browne , theese people have seem to have no responsibilitys and any politican who fails to meet all their demands is themselves labelled as scum

political discourse have become poisionous

I think your point is the complete opposite to reality. Politicians have a grotesque sense of entitlement and can't/will not give honest answers to those they represent. If they go out and blatantly misrepresent their position then I have very little sympathy for them.

Who's annointing the poor? Tell you what, go have a look at the effects these cuts in community care and carers allowance has in real terms. They make a real difference in the lives they touch yet are now paying a price for gross imcompetence, at best, from the the upper echelons.

tayto lover

goose_gladwell wrote: »

the truth is subjective

Just like honesty.

M three

goose_gladwell wrote: »

i dont like the way this country is going

people have developed a grotesque sense of entitlement towards the state , they feel the goverment should attend to their every need and if any politican fails this taks , individuals ( pumped full of righteous indignation ) feel they have the right to hound polticans to hell without remorse , im also sick of this annointing of the poor as being unconditionally rightous , people like travellers or scumbags who never worked a day in their lives are classed as heroes by the likes of vincent browne , theese people have seem to have no responsibilitys and any politican who fails to meet all their demands is themselves labelled as scum

political discourse have become poisionous

Ah give over would ya, where has anyone on this thread classed travellers as heroes?
Every time there's an election there's a hoard of politicians at the door, telling us that they'll do that and the other, they get elected, are nowhere to be seen, and end up breaking every promise they made.
Don't even attempt to propagate this nonsense that electoral disquiet is responsible for a politicians death.
That's just a blatant attempt to further silence an already complicit media.

goose_gladwell

JRant wrote: »

I think your point is the complete opposite to reality. Politicians have a grotesque sense of entitlement and can't/will not give honest answers to those they represent. If they go out and blatantly misrepresent their position then I have very little sympathy for them.

Who's annointing the poor? Tell you what, go have a look at the effects these cuts in community care and carers allowance has in real terms. They make a real difference in the lives they touch yet are now paying a price for gross imcompetence, at best, from the the upper echelons.

some people who require a carer can more than afford to foot the cost themselves , like all other forms of entitements , it should be means tested

tayto lover

goose_gladwell wrote: »

some people who require a carer can more than afford to foot the cost themselves , like all other forms of entitements , it should be means tested

Yes and people who get paid mileage to get to work should have that stopped immediately.
Imagine getting paid to go to work :rolleyes:

goose_gladwell

M three wrote: »

Ah give over would ya, where has anyone on this thread classed travellers as heroes?
Every time there's an election there's a hoard of politicians at the door, telling us that they'll do that and the other, they get elected, are nowhere to be seen, and end up breaking every promise they made.
Don't even attempt to propagate this nonsense that electoral disquiet is responsible for a politicians death.
That's just a blatant attempt to further silence an already complicit media.

i dont think it was the cause of this politicans death

i made my point within a much broader context , their is a growing attitude towards the state which i find insidious , a eulogising of certain sections of the country merley because they are alledgedly poor, nothing is expected of them

i blame vincent browne for a lot of it

goose_gladwell

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes and people who get paid mileage to get to work should have that stopped immediately.
Imagine getting paid to go to work :rolleyes:

no arguement here

mathepac

hyperborean wrote: »

The Independent have reported that friends and associates of Shane McEntee are blaming social media for his death,

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fallout-from-budget-and-cyber-abuse-troubled-him-3334469.html
...

Idiots, all of them

hyperborean wrote: »

... Who is protecting the interest of social media?

All media moguls are perfectly capable of protecting themselves and their interests.

Halloween Jack

goose_gladwell wrote: »

some people who require a carer can more than afford to foot the cost themselves , like all other forms of entitements , it should be means tested

Carers allowance is means tested.

goose_gladwell

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Carers allowance is means tested.

so whats the problem then with the recent budget cuts ?

Halloween Jack

goose_gladwell wrote: »

so whats the problem then with the recent budget cuts ?

I think they cut the respite care grant, which is an additional payment made to carers intended to cover the cost of alternative care, allowing the carer a break.

goose_gladwell

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I think they cut the respite care grant, which is an additional payment made to carers intended to cover the cost of alternative care, allowing the carer a break.

that shouldnt have been cut for those on low incomes or entitlements but i see no reason why an elderly person with a 600 euro per week pension should not pay for their own carer

JRant

goose_gladwell wrote: »

some people who require a carer can more than afford to foot the cost themselves , like all other forms of entitements , it should be means tested

That's just not true I'm afraid
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/carers/carers_allowance.html

These people are some of the most vulnerable in society and promises were made to protect them. They have every right to voice their concerns at these charlatans.

goose_gladwell

JRant wrote: »

That's just not true I'm afraid
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/carers/carers_allowance.html

These people are some of the most vulnerable in society and promises were made to protect them. They have every right to voice their concerns at these charlatans.

whats not true ?

Halloween Jack

goose_gladwell wrote: »

that shouldnt have been cut for those on low incomes or entitlements but i see no reason why an elderly person with a 600 euro per week pension should not pay for their own carer

People get carers allowance if they provide at least 40hrs per week care for someone who cannot, generally speaking, look after themselves. Generally the applicant cannot work full time so the allowance gives them an income. It is the carer who gets means tested, not the caree.

JRant

goose_gladwell wrote: »

whats not true ?

"some people who require a carer can more than afford to foot the cost themselves"

It's all in the link I posted and quite clear.

goose_gladwell

Halloween Jack wrote: »

People get carers allowance if they provide at least 40hrs per week care for someone who cannot, generally speaking, look after themselves. Generally the applicant cannot work full time so the allowance gives them an income. It is the carer who gets means tested, not the caree.

that makes no sense , its the caree who is the beneficary of state help - funding

JRant

goose_gladwell wrote: »

that makes no sense , its the caree who is the beneficary of state help - funding

It is called the carers, not carees, allowance.
Surely it's the state who benefit from these carers, the cost of providing such care through state institutions is many multiples of what they get.

goose_gladwell

JRant wrote: »

It is called the carers, not carees, allowance.
Surely it's the state who benefit from these carers, the cost of providing such care through state institutions is many multiples of what they get.

state would save even more if the caree paid for the service out of their own pocket and if they can afford to , they should

eric hoone

liammur wrote: »

I didn't either until recently:

http://www.thejournal.ie/senator-mcentee-called-on-to-clarify-callous-comments-on-respite-care-grant-708894-Dec2012/

MINISTER OF STATE Shane McEntee has been called upon to clarify his “callous and crass” comments in relation to cuts to the respite care grant.
Today’s Sunday Times reports that the Fine Gael Minister commented on the controversial cut – saying that “you could stay in a top hotel for €700 a week” and that “people just have to get on with it”.
In response to the comments, Fianna Fáil Senator Thomas Byrne said: “Having listened to many carers at Friday’s protest outside Leinster House, none of them mentioned using the money to stay in a “top hotel”. Most use the money for the extra costs of caring.”
“The 20 per cent cut in the Respite Care Grant is arguably the most mean-spirited cut in the Budget. The 77,000 carers affected save the State a fortune by caring for their loved ones on a daily basis. They will now be down €6.50 a week – or €325 a year – as a result of this Budget,” said Byrne.
“I have spoken to a number of carers over the past few weeks and months who are already under severe pressure as it is. I know they too would expect Minister McEntee to clarify his comments immediately.”

Is senator Byrne going to run in that by-election after all this? Tough call