Social Media caused the suicide of a politician?

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

goose_gladwell banned for being a re-reg troll.

Everyone else: there are way too many overly personal comments on this thread. I understand that emotions are running high around this topic, but you still need to keep things civil.

bjayzus

I've briefly skipped thru the various posts, but I didn't see any mention much to the likely cause ov this person's tragic decision being highly personal/private.
Also, I couldn't completely ignore, the other(small) story in the indo, on the same morning concerning an individual also put in an extremely stressful situation, ov his own doing allegedly, that might have exacted a similar response.

Biffo The Bare

Politicians have to take responsibility for the decisions and comments that they make. Lenihan was mentioned earlier in this thread. He is responsible for putting the country into hock for the next 30 years. People have a right to be angry with them.

bjayzus

The non-contrib pension iz only €188, not €219 az stated earlier(NOT by me) & iz means tested.

WeNeed Another General Election

JRant wrote: »

What's interesting in this matter is how quick the media and politicians are to deride social media in a situation like this terrible tradegy. Yet the media networks now get a vast amount of their content from just such avenues. Politicians are also more than happy to prostitute themselves on any social media they can to spread their lies for free and then have the gaul to give out when people rightly call them what they are on it.

My thoughts go to the poor family left behind to pick up the pieces.
Blaming social media doesn't do anything to address the real problems underlying suicide. Whats to say he wasn't receiving phonecalls or old fashioned hate mail in the post, which is a lit more anonymous than any internet medium.

their blame game would also help feed the denial of the followers to keep the show on the road

WeNeed Another General Election

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes and people who get paid mileage to get to work should have that stopped immediately.
Imagine getting paid to go to work :rolleyes:

and don't some even get a bonus for showing up to work like??

Shea O'Meara

hyperborean wrote: »

The Independent have reported that friends and associates of Shane McEntee are blaming social media for his death,

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fallout-from-budget-and-cyber-abuse-troubled-him-3334469.html



Now however sad and senseless suicide is, it seems that it is being used to attack social media more and more, there is a definite agenda lately.

Is it the old media in its last attack before it dies a deserved death or is it the politicians protecting their little cosy cartels from the scrutiny of the electorate?

Or both?

How long will social media keep its current unfettered freedoms if the 2 remaining behemoths of old Irish society go on the attack, will we see censorship , do we need censorship?

Who is protecting the interest of social media?

It's very sad that so soon after the mans death they, (FG and certain sectors of the mainstream media) seem to be deflecting from the unfortunately all too common blight of depression and looking for a scapegoat to suit their agenda.
Like or loathe it, social media is the only voice a lot of us have. I can think of no party, politician or news outlet, state or private, which 100% speaks for me.

The idea that some form of cyber bully is the only reason for his death seems a little bit off.

Sierra Oscar

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

It's very sad that so soon after the mans death they, (FG and certain sectors of the mainstream media) seem to be deflecting from the unfortunately all too common blight of depression and looking for a scapegoat to suit their agenda.
Like or loathe it, social media is the only voice a lot of us have. I can think of no party, politician or news outlet, state or private, which 100% speaks for me.

The idea that some form of cyber bully is the only reason for his death seems a little bit off.

Indeed, this whole thing is quite distressing. We have a serious issue with depression and suicide in this country, but instead of discussing the crux of the issue certain sections of the media and TD's themselves have instead sought to focus on examining social media rather than the epidemic of depression which is prevalent within society.

It seems that those who want a constructive, sensible and informed debate regarding the issue of suicide and depression in Ireland will have to wait longer. We as a society are failing so many people in regards mental health and well-being, and it seems we want to remain oblivious to the issue. It is sickening.

Chips Lovell

While I haven't read all of the coverage, what I have seen has focused not so much on social media per se, but on what was said on social media. In short, it's the message rather than the medium a lot of his peers were complaining about. A death threat is a death threat regardless of whether it comes in the post or via Facebook.

leggo wrote: »

I've told this story here before, but I remember encountering Brian Lenihan at the height of it while working security in a venue. He was there to see his daughter (I believe) perform. Upon leaving, though, he was cornered by what I can only call a mob of angry people yelling abuse at him. Say what you want about Lenihan (and I'm by no means a FF-sympathiser or someone who considers anyone who dies a saint), but all I saw then was a man who wanted one nice night with the family (something we all deserve, regardless of what our job is) and had it destroyed, while damn close to being physically attacked, because people didn't like his political policies. I couldn't but sympathise, regardless of how much I disagreed with his professional views.

I also remember Dermot Ahern saying that one of the reasons he retired was that his house had been picketed and his children verbally abused.

Qualitymark

From today's Irish Times:

Mr McEntee's brother Gerry spoke at the Mass and spoke of anonymous critics of his brother following the Budget. "Shame on you people, you faceless cowards who sent him horrible messages on the website and on text. Shame on you. I hope you are not proud of what you achieved . If you are, we are in a worse state than I ever thought we were in," he said.

So if it's "on the website", maybe these were messages sent to his personal website? And texts? Lovely people in this world.

dixiefly

As was mentioned very earlty in this thread, if people feel strongly enough about their point then they should be prepared to attach their name and address to it.
RTE and other media should only quote coments made be people who have verified their identity. People are entitled to a voice and to utilise the latest technology but it is grossly unfair for people to be able to make accusations anonomously and then have it quoted on the radio etc.

We all should treat comments made by unverified sources with the amount of creedance you would ti a couple of guys in a pub...in fact even less credence than you would to a couple of guys in a pub.

Slideshowbob

Gerry McEntee referred to faceless critics - they are the same faceless people that elect TDs.

So will law be changed now to stop anonimity online?

expectationlost

can anyone point to the over the line abuse he got on social media you should be able to find some

look here the topsy result of thejournal article about his hotel for carers comments, don't see any excessive abuse http://topsy.com/www.thejournal.ie/senator-mcentee-called-on-to-clarify-callous-comments-on-respite-care-grant-708894-Dec2012/

tayto lover

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Gerry McEntee referred to faceless critics - they are the same faceless people that elect TDs.

So will law be changed now to stop anonimity online?

It is simply wrong, as stated numerous times, to blame social media on it's own for this tragedy. There is always more than one reason for suicide.

michael999999

dixiefly wrote: »

As was mentioned very earlty in this thread, if people feel strongly enough about their point then they should be prepared to attach their name and address to it.
RTE and other media should only quote coments made be people who have verified their identity. People are entitled to a voice and to utilise the latest technology but it is grossly unfair for people to be able to make accusations anonomously and then have it quoted on the radio etc.

We all should treat comments made by unverified sources with the amount of creedance you would ti a couple of guys in a pub...in fact even less credence than you would to a couple of guys in a pub.

so we can dismiss anything you say?

Unless of course your real name is Dixiefly?

Chips Lovell

expectationlost wrote: »

can anyone point to the over the line abuse he got on social media you should be able to find some

Sunday Times reported that a lot of the abusive comments he received were on his Facebook page, which has since been taken down.

The paper spoke to a few TDs like Jerry Buttimer and Tom Barry, who gave examples of the kind of stuff they got, such as:

"I'm going to murder you and you deserve to be murdered"

"You should get smashed by a lorry Jerry"

"You're a f**king muppet, drop dead you f**king prick"


Regarding anonymity, there isn't really any anonymity on the net anyway. I think though you may see more instances of stuff like this being reported to the cops.

michael999999

I think it is a big mistake blaming social media for this death at this stage. Look at the case in London where at first they blamed the prank call. Now it seems the nurse had attempted suicide twice before.

People need to take a step back.

Its also fairly cynical of the politicians to be blaming social media, the one form of media they have no control over.

Maybe if the public were given more of a platform on our national media, instead of constantly being shouted down by Joe Duffy and Pat Kenny. If your not voicing there point of view youll be shot down immediately!

As for the likes of the Irish independent, we all know the connections between there owner DOB and Fine Gael. Couldnt be considered Independent.

juan.kerr

liammur wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. Look at the case in the UK involving the Aussie djs and the nurse, that seemed to be 1 thing, and 1 thing only - the hoax call.

Not quite.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/dj-prank-nurse-made-previous-attempts-to-commit-suicide-3335359.html

expectationlost

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Sunday Times reported that a lot of the abusive comments he received were on his Facebook page, which has since been taken down.

The paper spoke to a few TDs like Jerry Buttimer and Tom Barry, who gave examples of the kind of stuff they got, such as:

"I'm going to murder you and you deserve to be murdered"

"You should get smashed by a lorry Jerry"

"You're a f**king muppet, drop dead you f**king prick"


Regarding anonymity, there isn't really any anonymity on the net anyway. I think though you may see more instances of stuff like this being reported to the cops.

ok right so we talking about shane mcentee's facebook,we're not talking about jerry buttimer and tom barry

dixiefly

michael999999 wrote: »

so we can dismiss anything you say?

Unless of course your real name is Dixiefly?

I have no problem giving my real name at registration and would have no problem posting on a site that would require my name and address as part of the registration process.
I would have thought that that would have been obvious from my post.

TomOnBoard

What a loada Sh&6e has been tossed out here and elsewhere since this man died so sadly by his own hand.

"Social Media caused the suicide of a politician"

That's the heading on this thread. Well, way to go to give vicious, anonymous typists (and many not very good ones at that) a victory, and a bump to their egos that may give them a few minutes smile in their otherwise sad existences.

Keep this ****e going and maybe it will end up as that Man's epitaph! But it's all Bull****!

The Priest at his Removal made it quite clear: "And God knows, because he (Minister MDCEntee) didn’t know, and neither did the rest of us, what darkness or what issues were working inside him"

Only he konws why. The rest of us need to cop on and leave his poor family alone to deal with it.

May his poor soul Rest In Peace.

As far as i am concerned, this thread should be closed.

Min

If you put yourself up before the public for election, you have made yourself open to people who like you to say nice things and those who don't to say things one might not want to see or read.
Politicians are not entitled to a free ride. They get highly paid for their work and being a public servant can expect to get good along with the bad, some people will be personal which cannot be stopped.

It is very very sad what happened in this case. A man took his own life. His brother blamed social media.

If a member of SF had killed themselves on the day Eamon Gilmore attacked SF with the 'how many bodies' attack, would Eamon Gilmore be taking or accepting the blame?

If someone is mentally ill, it could be any number of things that makes them take that devastating decision to kill themselves.

leggo

Min wrote: »

If you put yourself up before the public for election, you have made yourself open to people who like you to say nice things and those who don't to say things one might not want to see or read.
Politicians are not entitled to a free ride. They get highly paid for their work and being a public servant can expect to get good along with the bad, some people will be personal which cannot be stopped.

It is very very sad what happened in this case. A man took his own life. His brother blamed social media.

If a member of SF had killed themselves on the day Eamon Gilmore attacked SF with the 'how many bodies' attack, would Eamon Gilmore be taking or accepting the blame?

If someone is mentally ill, it could be any number of things that makes them take that devastating decision to kill themselves.

Yes but there is a MASSIVE difference between engaging someone in an intelligent, educated debate on policy and sending someone personally abusive death threats, and the like. You sound like you're justifying the latter in that post.

If someone isn't intelligent enough to make that distinction, they shouldn't have the right to vote imo.

Prodigious

In my opinion journalists should be reporting on factual information only, broadsheet style. Too much slander and bull**** is published in tabloids, feeding the ignorant public ignorant opinions which fester and cause anger.

tayto lover

Methememb wrote: »

In my opinion journalists should be reporting on factual information only, broadsheet style. Too much slander and bull**** is published in tabloids, feeding the ignorant public ignorant opinions which fester and cause anger.

Many of the people who are angry do not buy newspapers and rarely listen to the news. What makes them angry, I feel, are the cuts to their household budgets, their children having to emigrate, being unable to pay mortgages, and the fact that the people causing this are insulated and protected from the problems themselves with their high wages and perks. It is infantile to expect them not to voice that anger however. Angry people express anger and rarely conform to norms when the red mist descends.
Again there was more than one cause of this tragedy.

Seanchai

The Sunday Independent is a truly horrible newspaper which is devoid of ethical journalism and has ruined the careers and reputations of many decent people. For these reasons, I have never purchased it and I look down on people who encourage this objectionable muck by adding to their sales figures.

That said, the source of this attack on social media does not negate the substance of the attack, namely that there are far, far, far too many people hiding behind anonymity online attacking decent people who are in the public eye. Our right to freedom of speech has never been absolute. It has always been constrained by our responsibility to be mindful of the human lives and careers affected by our words, and never moreso than when we are not making the attacks under our real names.

For instance, I think the way many people on this site have ganged up to personally attack Seán Sherlock was bullying on a huge scale. There were few if any restraints on these anonymous people. Anonymous people making unfair attacks on identifiable people on public fora without suffering any consequences for such unfair attacks are a problem. When such people are dealt with, social media will start to come of age. With rights come responsibilities. I don't see how any person of integrity could object to this on fairness grounds.

Seanchai

tayto lover wrote: »

Many of the people who are angry do not buy newspapers and rarely listen to the news. What makes them angry, I feel, are the cuts to their household budgets, their children having to emigrate, being unable to pay mortgages, and the fact that the people causing this are insulated and protected from the problems themselves with their high wages and perks. It is infantile to expect them not to voice that anger however. Angry people express anger and rarely conform to norms when the red mist descends.
Again there was more than one cause of this tragedy.

What makes me angry is not so much the cuts, but rather that the political elite (including senior civil servants) and their pals in various well-paid consultancies continue to feed very well at the trough of our taxes, while the cuts fall disproportionately on the rest of us. The entire "expenses" and "allowances" system is the clearest two fingers to the rest of us, and every week we find out about new "allowances" to public representatives like accommodation for Dublin TDs to attend the Dáil ... in Dublin. What a wholly disgusting context for these cutbacks for the rest of us.

joseph brand

leggo wrote: »

Yes but there is a MASSIVE difference between engaging someone in an intelligent, educated debate on policy and sending someone personally abusive death threats, and the like. You sound like you're justifying the latter in that post.

If someone isn't intelligent enough to make that distinction, they shouldn't have the right to vote imo.

People who watch X Factor, Eastenders, Home and Away etc shouldn't be allowed vote either. Good luck trying to enforce it.

No point listening to a journalists' views on social media. May as well as ask a Vegan what they think of lamb chops!

There's no shortage of hysterical folks who are ready and willing to get their torches and pitch forks, form an angry mob and march with ill-deserved confidence.

I'm embarrassed that Shane's brother attacked social media. In his defence, he just lost his brother, so he's hardly thinking straight.

The family should admit that Shane had problems and needed help. We need to create an environment where there's no shame in asking for help. The McEntees have a chance to honour his memory. It doesn't include futile attacks on social media.

Paddy De Plasterer

Seanchai wrote: »

The Sunday Independent is a truly horrible newspaper which is devoid of ethical journalism and has ruined the careers and reputations of many decent people. For these reasons, I have never purchased it and I look down on people who encourage this objectionable muck by adding to their sales figures.

That said, the source of this attack on social media does not negate the substance of the attack, namely that there are far, far, far too many people hiding behind anonymity online attacking decent people who are in the public eye. Our right to freedom of speech has never been absolute. It has always been constrained by our responsibility to be mindful of the human lives and careers affected by our words, and never moreso than when we are not making the attacks under our real names.

For instance, I think the way many people on this site have ganged up to personally attack Seán Sherlock was bullying on a huge scale. There were few if any restraints on these anonymous people. Anonymous people making unfair attacks on identifiable people on public fora without suffering any consequences for such unfair attacks are a problem. When such people are dealt with, social media will start to come of age. With rights come responsibilities. I don't see how any person of integrity could object to this on fairness grounds.

I agree re Sindo. The likes of Brendan O Connor, Jody Corcoran, John Drennan and others were at name calling and personal abuse long before social media existed. It is a disgrace to the journalism.

Min

leggo wrote: »

Yes but there is a MASSIVE difference between engaging someone in an intelligent, educated debate on policy and sending someone personally abusive death threats, and the like. You sound like you're justifying the latter in that post.

If someone isn't intelligent enough to make that distinction, they shouldn't have the right to vote imo.

I did not know of the death threats. I had not justified any such thing.

expectationlost

so the social media site with the strongest real name policy is the source of all the anonymous faceless abuse?

Fishooks13

Basically this is how I see it.

You only have to look at some of the mindless idiotic abuse thrown at politicians (many who do their very best for the country) on social media sites and comment sections to get an idea of how hard it must be for people not to let it effect them. Much of this is ignorant, highly speculative and just plain false. Much of the time under a false name or alias, with no moderation or come-uppence for the poster. You can bet these same people would not be so confrontational away from the anonymity of their computer screen.

I think people are seeing this as an effort to somehow ban all comment on social media sites. It's simply not IMO. There's nothing wrong with expressing your anger at a politician and airing your views online, in fact it should be encouraged. But there's a line between your right to express your opinion and downright disgusting personal abuse seen online on a daily basis.

leggo

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm embarrassed that Shane's brother attacked social media. In his defence, he just lost his brother, so he's hardly thinking straight.

The family should admit that Shane had problems and needed help. We need to create an environment where there's no shame in asking for help. The McEntees have a chance to honour his memory. It doesn't include futile attacks on social media.

Wow. I can't believe you just said all of this. This is a new low, even for boards.

You do realise that you're now claiming to know more about the situation than his brother? And, furthermore, you're also trivialising his suicide, his family's grief, and how they honoured his life?!? This is HIS FAMILY. They know, better than you sitting behind your keyboard playing pretend psychologist, why Shane McEntee did this. They used their platform to bravely try and spread awareness (since they knew the papers would report on it) in order to stop this from happening to some other family.

And instead you say you're 'embarrassed' for him and try and downplay the effect on the suicide (as if you know better). That's a vile stance to take. Absolutely sick.

sean200

What about all the people that have taken their lives because of decisions that politicans have made . The neck of them to blame the public for this

leggo

sean200 wrote: »

What about all the people that have taken their lives because of decisions that politicans have made . The neck of them to blame the public for this

It's not the same. It's not even nearly the same. Politicians are put in place to make those decisions. Sometimes they can get it wrong and I'd imagine it's horrible to know that a bad day in work can have someone kill themselves.

The trolls here are giving mindless abuse specifically intended to cause the politicians to suffer. They aren't intelligent enough to understand how to participate meaningfully so that's how they do so. If they can't participate meaningfully, then they shouldn't be surprised when they don't have their needs addressed. You need to learn to have a voice before you expect it to be listened to. Mindless abuse isn't having a voice.

Fishooks13

sean200 wrote: »

What about all the people that have taken their lives because of decisions that politicans have made . The neck of them to blame the public for this

There's so much wrong with that post.

First off. Who's blaming the public? Stop being hysterical. It's about idiots spouting idiotic vitriol on social media sites, not some mad attempt to blame the public for not being happy.

Secondly, Shane McEntee was a damn good public representative, he didn't always get it right, but who would considering the **** storm we're in right now?. Nothing he did lead to anyone taking their own lives. So stop trying to imply it because frankly it's disgusting.

Ash.J.Williams

Fine Gael wanted to be down with the kids, and embrace the bebo, to reach out the electorate, so they should take the rough with the smooth

Ash.J.Williams

leggo wrote: »

Wow. I can't believe you just said all of this. This is a new low, even for boards.

You do realise that you're now claiming to know more about the situation than his brother? And, furthermore, you're also trivialising his suicide, his family's grief, and how they honoured his life?!? This is HIS FAMILY. They know, better than you sitting behind your keyboard playing pretend psychologist, why Shane McEntee did this. They used their platform to bravely try and spread awareness (since they knew the papers would report on it) in order to stop this from happening to some other family.

And instead you say you're 'embarrassed' for him and try and downplay the effect on the suicide (as if you know better). That's a vile stance to take. Absolutely sick.

That is a very extreme reaction to a valid point

Fishooks13

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Fine Gael wanted to be down with the kids, and embrace the bebo, to reach out the electorate, so they should take the rough with the smooth

No they shouldn't. If someone was calling you a lying scumbag crook would you take the rough with the smooth?

There's a difference between voicing your disquiet with the government online, which many people including myself do, and the downright disgusting personal abuse aimed at politicians on a daily basis.

Unless of course you're advocating the abuse Shane McAntee received?

leggo

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

That is a very extreme reaction to a valid point

You think it's valid to be embarrassed for how someone grieves over their brother?

Ash.J.Williams

leggo wrote: »

You think it's valid to be embarrassed for how someone grieves over their brother?

No

Ash.J.Williams

Fishooks13 wrote: »

No they shouldn't. If someone was calling you a lying scumbag crook would you take the rough with the smooth?

There's a difference between voicing your disquiet with the government online, which many people including myself do, and the downright disgusting personal abuse aimed at politicians on a daily basis.

Unless of course you're advocating the abuse Shane McAntee received?

I'm advocating reporting it to the cops, and getting on with it.

dvpower

sean200 wrote: »

What about all the people that have taken their lives because of decisions that politicans have made . The neck of them to blame the public for this

Who are the politicians who have blamed 'the public'?

dvpower

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'm advocating reporting it to the cops, and getting on with it.

Are you also advocating legislation to tackle it?

The Big Red Button

You'd need to be extremely thick-skinned to put yourself out there in public as a politician. I know it's certainly not a job I'd be able to do myself.

Whether or not the public reception his comments received was a contributory factor to his suicide ... social media isn't the cause of what was communicated to him, it was only another avenue for his critics to get their message across. If it weren't for the likes of Twitter, people would have gotten their message to him another way - shouts on the street, anonymous letters, etc.

Every political party in the country has embraced social media as a way of getting their message across to the public. Of course, it's natural that this goes both ways, that the public will communicate with them in the same ways.

I don't for a minute believe that this one incident (and resulting comments towards him) was the sole factor which resulted in this man's suicide. Because of his job, I'm sure he's come under pressure from the public and from colleagues plenty of times in the past. Who knows what else might have been going on in his life. I think it's fair to say that, if he was perfectly happy otherwise, and in full mental health, these comments wouldn't have been enough to push him over the edge.

My thoughts and sympathies are with his family, friends and colleagues.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

Who are the politicians who have blamed 'the public'?

"The Irish people went mad with borrowing" --- guess who?

Not all did but were included in his statement.

http://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-slammed-over-people-went-mad-with-borrowing-comments-338447-Jan2012/

Ash.J.Williams

dvpower wrote: »

Are you also advocating legislation to tackle it?

No, I'm sure it is illegal to issue threats to another person already isn't it?

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

"The Irish people went mad with borrowing" --- guess who?

I was clearly referring to McEntees death

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

I was clearly referring to McEntees death

Apologies.

Peace be with you dv.

dvpower

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

No, I'm sure it is illegal to issue threats to another person already isn't it?

It may well be, but having legislation that makes it illegal isn't the same as having legislation to deal with it.
For example, legislation to compel social media platforms to record and verify the identities of their users and legislation to force them to hand it over to the investigating authorities.