Social Media caused the suicide of a politician?

Ash.J.Williams

dvpower wrote: »

It may well be, but having legislation that makes it illegal isn't the same as having legislation to deal with it.
For example, legislation to compel social media platforms to record and verify the identities of their users and legislation to force them to hand it over to the investigating authorities.

I'm not sure about that to be honest. I would doubt any of these bullys have the brains to be anonymous anyway, so reporting them to the gardai would be a start. Other than that a global authentication process linked to your passport would be preferable to our inept politicians legislating something they don't understand, and therefore having to pay deloitte millions of tax payers money to do it for them.

Chips Lovell

I'm not sure if legislation is even needed. You can already get a court order to obtain someone's details.

dvpower

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'm not sure if legislation is even needed. You can already get a court order to obtain someone's details.

That's fair enough.
But if I issue a death threat on Boards.ie, what information could they hand over? They have my email address an they have an IP address of where I posted from. To get anywhere with these, they're into another round of court orders to get more details from ISPs and email providers.
It starts to look like a very expensive investigation, that will likely cross borders, with virtually no hope of success if I've taken even the most basic of measures to hide my identity.

Chips Lovell

You may need two court orders alright. One for the website and another for the ISP. But it certainly is doable, if you look at Lord McAlpine, who went after numerous Twitter users.

In the cases of death threats, it would be a criminal matter, rather than a civil one, in which case the guards would be the ones pursuing people's details.

I suspect most people aren't that careful. While there may be a few who're copped on enough to use proxies, I reckon a lot of them haven't a clue that they can even be traced, let alone know how to cover their tracks.

Ash.J.Williams

98% of Mr mcentees abusers would be very easily caught, as I said earlier they're probably not very bright....

expectationlost

leggo wrote: »

Wow. I can't believe you just said all of this. This is a new low, even for boards.

You do realise that you're now claiming to know more about the situation than his brother? And, furthermore, you're also trivialising his suicide, his family's grief, and how they honoured his life?!? This is HIS FAMILY. They know, better than you sitting behind your keyboard playing pretend psychologist, why Shane McEntee did this. They used their platform to bravely try and spread awareness (since they knew the papers would report on it) in order to stop this from happening to some other family.

And instead you say you're 'embarrassed' for him and try and downplay the effect on the suicide (as if you know better). That's a vile stance to take. Absolutely sick.

i believe some people are reacting to what the media are saying (as we are in opposite direction )

i think theres another reason for his unfortunate death, that they're not willing to say yet

the whole premise of this thread is false

just look at the story with the hoax nurse, her family were quoted or misquoted in the media as blaming the radio djs, it was only till weeks later they admitted that she had a history of mental depression and of seriously harming herself

leggo

Well if his brother saying that's the reason at the funeral isn't enough for you, I don't know what is. This isn't the moon landing we're discussing here, there's no conspiracy, his brother has said it.

tayto lover

leggo wrote: »

Well if his brother saying that's the reason at the funeral isn't enough for you, I don't know what is. This isn't the moon landing we're discussing here, there's no conspiracy, his brother has said it.

His brother is obviously very upset and not thinking clearly or needs someone to blame. It's human nature. There are obviously other reasons.

leggo

How can you possibly cast aspersions as to what's going on in his brother's mind? Because it doesn't suit the narrative of events that you'd like to believe? Cop on.

tayto lover

leggo wrote: »

How can you possibly cast aspersions as to what's going on in his brother's mind? Because it doesn't suit the narrative of events that you'd like to believe? Cop on.

Same for you.

Chips Lovell

tayto lover wrote: »

There are obviously other reasons.

What reasons?

tayto lover

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

What reasons?

I have seen many cases of suicide over a lifetime. There are always more than one, money, love, depression, you never know but one thing sure is that there are other reasons. They may or may not come out in this case but they are there.

expectationlost

leggo wrote: »

Well if his brother saying that's the reason at the funeral isn't enough for you, I don't know what is. This isn't the moon landing we're discussing here, there's no conspiracy, his brother has said it.

he didn't he just gave out about faceless critics , he didn't say that's the reason

spikethedog

Seen this on politicalworld.org I think.
The writer makes a few valid points & observations.

The Cynical Reporting of a Politician’s Death


"I have deep and sincere sympathy is felt for the family, friends and colleagues of Deputy Shane McEntee. To lose a husband, brother, father or friend at this time of year in particular is very hard.

What makes it worse is the way in which it has been reported by the media in Ireland.

Mr. McEntee had other things to deal with apart from alleged adverse social media commentary. On a personal level his father had died, and a local man had died in an accident and that apparently upset him greatly. On a professional level he had voted for recent cuts. How much pressure was on him from the FG whip to do so? He was being lobbied by directly by people affected by cuts. He was concerned with environmental issues like ash die back and frustrated at how slowly the Dept. of Ag. are dealing with it – as am I. Last summer, a fellow FG TD called his remarks on unemployed youth “moronic.” What other issues were on his mind we do not know. Mental health is a very complex issue, but generally depression and suicide cannot be ascribed to just one thing. The needless speculation by our established media will not clarify that.

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum – speak no ill of the dead – is a very old maxim that can be taken to extremes, to a point of martyrdom on a media altar.

Brian Lenihan Jnr’s death was used to divert attention from the disastrous decision process on the bailout. Gerry Ryan’s death, now a tabloid staple sensationalist saga, means people are not looking at how grossly overpaid or politically/editorially interconnected our mediocre media caste is.

Mr. McEntee, in a newspaper interview in regards to cutbacks is reported to have said: “You could stay in a top hotel for €700 a week,” “People just have to get on with it” Fianna Fail then issued a statement calling on Mr. McEntee to “immediately clarify his callous and crass comments.”
If anyone took Deputy McEntee out of context, highlighted his comments, or turbocharged adverse commentary against this individual it was Fianna Fail.

So does anyone call for closure, censorship or greater control of FF or their press office?

No, but far be it from Joe Blog-er to comment or question.

An unnamed (quelle surprise) FG deputy has been quoted in the papers

“Parts of social media give a voice to nutcases who are full of anger and spit out vitriol.

“There is no filter – they give a platform to these people when often it’s just bile.”

It is ironic, or perhaps even hypocritical that the source was unnamed, after former Taoiseach John Bruton said those who tweet messages to radio or TV shows should not have their views aired unless their names and addresses are given: “In fact they are being delivered under the cowardly cloak of anonymity.”

Now it appears a rather disturbing and heavy handed attempt is being made to associate this reported suicide with social media and cyber bullying. In the wake of a number of recent high-profile teen suicides linked to online abuse, the Minister for Justice Alan Shatter said laws existed to punish those behind such harassment.

I think it is crass and callous to associate this death with that of the truly traumatic and tragic deaths of two teenage sisters in Donegal. The two events are utterly incomparable. I think it is crass and callous the way in which his death was reported, in contrast the restraint shown, for example, by the forum users at http://www.politicalworld.org could be a role model for the press.

But, quite cynically, some politicians, named and unnamed, will always attempt to use tragedy to their advantage. Some will, as we have seen, use this as a means to attack critics and divert criticism.

Mr. McEntee, for what I have no doubt were honorable intentions, ran for public office and was elected. In accepting public office, one must accept that one’s actions are subject to criticism and comment, and not always in a friendly, nice or reasonable way. He chose, or perhaps was forced by the party whip system, to vote to support cuts that adversely affected a lot of his constituents and others across the Island, supporting the Party over the people. Those cuts reduce income from a large amount of people on low incomes to bail out a few who are still in relative terms very, very well off. This creates an angry atmosphere, and his comments did not help.

People are, justifiably, angry with FG and Labour continuing on a road doomed to failure started by FF. There is also a real sense of dis-empowerment in general and a sense of betrayal by Labour in particular.

Apart from the internet, regular people with real grievances have no way to have their voice heard within the Irish media-political caste system.

In closing, I would just like readers to consider how many suicides could already be attributed to the cutbacks, house foreclosures, job losses and an avoidable depth of recession due to the failings of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour? With cutbacks in respite care how many people will commit suicide or choose euthanasia so as not to be a burden on their families due to cutbacks?"

Chips Lovell

tayto lover wrote: »

I have seen many cases of suicide over a lifetime. There are always more than one, money, love, depression, you never know but one thing sure is that there are other reasons. They may or may not come out in this case but they are there.

Apologies. I misread you and thought you were saying that the abuse he received wasn't a factor rather than it might not be the only factor.

leggo

expectationlost wrote: »

he didn't he just gave out about faceless critics , he didn't say that's the reason

...while delivering his brother's eulogy. Christ, do you need him to walk up to you, take you by both hands, look into your eyes and say "I know what I'm saying. This is what I meant..." or would your denial and insistence that politicans should be open to vile abuse supersede even that?

Chips Lovell

Calling someone's comments crass and callous falls within the bracket of robust criticism, saying they deserve to get run over by a truck doesn't. I reckon it's more the latter people are expressing a concern about.

expectationlost

i think the reluctance to talk about personal issues and suicide is of greater significance

michael999999

So when all this settles, it will be interesting to see what help Sean Mc Antees family sought for him, before hes suicide. If as they say these anonymous threats had such a devastating effect on him!

Had they contacted the Gardai?

Had they approached Fine Gael and let them know there worries?

spikethedog

We can only hope that kenny's tears at the graveside were real and he begins to understand the pressure his policy's are putting most people under.
I don't see him crying too much about the people who have killed themselves because of the mess the political class made of this country's economy.
Social media didn't cause this mans death as will be shown in the next few weeks. As usual with FG, it's always someone else's fault.

Chips Lovell

I see no one in his family or FG saying social media caused his death. They've been saying that abuse directed to him on social media caused it.

spikethedog

From what I've read, and who knows if it's true or if anything written about this mans death is true, the worst abuse he received was through text messages.
Speculating on here that it was nutcases on social media who drove this man to that level of dispair is just that, speculation.
It's always easy to look for someone else to blame, the underlying causes should be addressed.
Banning, or restricting social media sites won't change anything.

hyperborean

spikethedog wrote: »

Banning, or restricting social media sites won't change anything.

Of course it will


If a false dichotomy was to be entered into the mainstream with suicide/bullying being strongly linked to the new social mediums then the people that have most to loose (politicians and old media) from the new social mediums could potentially get the angle they need to castrate it!

Put the skids on any oversight of their cartels, "lets link suicide to xyz and then legislate some handcuffs for these upstarts"

Ash.J.Williams

Reminds me of the whole 80s heavy metal causes suicide furore...the fact is if Mr mcentee sought help it may have hurt his chances of promotion such is the attitude in this country

michael999999

Fine gael still have not appointed the suicide prevention Tzar, which they promised to appoint when they were elected!

spikethedog

hyperborean wrote: »

Of course it will


If a false dichotomy was to be entered into the mainstream with suicide/bullying being strongly linked to the new social mediums then the people that have most to loose (politicians and old media) from the new social mediums could potentially get the angle they need to castrate it!

Put the skids on any oversight of their cartels, "lets link suicide to xyz and then legislate some handcuffs for these upstarts"

They'll have to ban text messages then and then ban having constituency offices being open to the public, oh and don't forget, TD's might as well shut down their websites too.
The vast majority of the public, except for the protected few, are seriously angry with the government and we can expect an increase in these types of cases in the future.
If they want to bully us, they can expect to be bullied back.
You reap what you sow!

ulyssescohen

My two cents is that social media has allowed a lot of viciousness that should be censured. If you have a problem with a public representative, then write a letter to the politician, or in a anonymous forum

The anonymous injections of venom that go on are cowardly

I think the moderators on this website do a good job in protecting users and visitors from such nonuseful commentary (most of the time)

expectationlost

i wonder what precentage of phones are registered now, in ireland we don't have to register our phones and i've generally avoided doing so as have most, but ya do if you want to use webtext and various smartphone services so i guess it becoming more common by choice, still not untraceble, also i don't know of any station that excepts text without atleast your name and town

Paddy De Plasterer

spikethedog wrote: »

We can only hope that kenny's tears at the graveside were real and he begins to understand the pressure his policy's are putting most people under.
I don't see him crying too much about the people who have killed themselves because of the mess the political class made of this country's economy.
Social media didn't cause this mans death as will be shown in the next few weeks. As usual with FG, it's always someone else's fault.

tell us more. I suspect that many factors caused it, inc the fact the late Shane was over sensitive perhaps and was too involved.

leggo

spikethedog wrote: »

If they want to bully us, they can expect to be bullied back.
You reap what you sow!

Sick.

spikethedog

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

tell us more. I suspect that many factors caused it, inc the fact the late Shane was over sensitive perhaps and was too involved.

I'm sure there are more factors, there always is. I know that from personal experience.
His death will be used though to suit FG's agenda to stifle debate and criticism.

mountai

leggo wrote: »

Sick.

Why??? . I hope the bastar*s will never get ME to go down the same road , but if I decide to do so , I hope I"d bring a few of them with me , at least I"d be making a POSITIVE contribution . Its gonna happen.

Chips Lovell

spikethedog wrote: »

They'll have to ban text messages then and then ban having constituency offices being open to the public, oh and don't forget, TD's might as well shut down their websites too.
The vast majority of the public, except for the protected few, are seriously angry with the government and we can expect an increase in these types of cases in the future.
If they want to bully us, they can expect to be bullied back.
You reap what you sow!

Nobody's going to be banning anything. There is already legal recourse for people who find themselves on the receiving end of these kinds of threats and abuse. What will probably happen is that politicians will be more likely to report this kind of stuff in the future.

expectationlost

now thomas byrne is trying to delete history by deleting his criticism of shane mcentees remarks this was the link but http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/9296/ and http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/byrne-calls-on-mcentee-to-clarify-callous-comments/ page is gone, its not in list of news releases http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/thomas-byrne/, i was expecting this to happen, so i saved the page this is what thomas byrne wrote on 9th december 2012

Byrne calls on McEntee to clarify callous comments Posted on 09/12/12 by Thomas Byrne

Fianna Fáil Senator Thomas Byrne has called on Minister of
State Shane McEntee to immediately clarify his callous and crass
comments in relation to cuts to the respite care grant.

According to reports in today’s Sunday Times, Minister McEntee said
in relation to the controversial cut that "you could stay in a top
hotel for €700 a week" and said "people just have to get on with it".

SenatorByrne said, "These comments as reported are incredibly crass.
"Having listened to many carers at Friday's protest outside
Leinster House, none of them mentioned using the money to stay in a
"top hotel". Most use the money for the extra costs of caring.

The 20% cut in the Respite Care Grant is arguably the most
mean-spirited cut in the Budget. The 77,000 carers affected save the
State a fortune by caring for their loved ones on a daily basis. 
They will now be down €6.50 a week - or €325 a year - as a result
of this Budget.

“I have spoken to a number of carers over the past few weeks and
months who are already under severe pressure as it is. I know they
too would expect Minister McEntee to clarify his comments immediately,"
concluded Senator Byrne.

Ash.J.Williams

expectationlost wrote: »

now thomas byrne is trying to delete history by deleting his criticism of shane mcentees remarks this was the link but http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/9296/ and http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/byrne-calls-on-mcentee-to-clarify-callous-comments/ page is gone, its not in list of news releases http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/thomas-byrne/, i was expecting this to happen, so i saved the page this is what thomas byrne wrote on 9th december 2012

Probably should have left them up

michael999999

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Probably should have left them up

Just another case of Fianna Fail trying to delete history once again!

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Some of the comments on this thread are getting overly personal and veering towards abuse. I understand that this is an emotional topic, but if people cannot keep their comments civil, then they should not post in this thread.

tayto lover

I am aware of people who committed suicide because of the recession and i'd say many others are aware of cases too. The Samaritans had a big rise in the numbers calling their help-lines over Christmas. As other cuts and charges begin to bite I can see a big rise in the suicide rates in the coming year.

We should all keep an eye on those we suspect are getting it hard to cope. A kind word and a helping hand can go a long way.

Some signs to watch out for --
http://www.livestrong.com/article/26610-signs-suicidal-person/

Paddy De Plasterer

expectationlost wrote: »

now thomas byrne is trying to delete history by deleting his criticism of shane mcentees remarks this was the link but http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/9296/ and http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/byrne-calls-on-mcentee-to-clarify-callous-comments/ page is gone, its not in list of news releases http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/thomas-byrne/, i was expecting this to happen, so i saved the page this is what thomas byrne wrote on 9th december 2012

awful that Byrne cannot stand over his own comments, He seems a nasty bit of work.

Fishooks13

spikethedog wrote: »

They'll have to ban text messages then and then ban having constituency offices being open to the public, oh and don't forget, TD's might as well shut down their websites too.
The vast majority of the public, except for the protected few, are seriously angry with the government and we can expect an increase in these types of cases in the future.
If they want to bully us, they can expect to be bullied back.
You reap what you sow!

Such hysterical bull****.

Nothing is going to be banned. But people shouldn't think being mad at the government gives them the right to do or say anything they like to public representatives without reproach.

spikethedog

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Such hysterical bull****.

Nothing is going to be banned. But people shouldn't think being mad at the government gives them the right to do or say anything they like to public representatives without reproach.

Maybe you should read through the thread before you comment and see my post in context. LOL.
I suppose, in reply to you, I'll say it's not ok for the public to give abuse as the public don't have the luxury of parliamentary privilege.

Fishooks13

spikethedog wrote: »

Maybe you should read through the thread before you comment and see my post in context. LOL.
I suppose, in reply to you, I'll say it's not ok for the public to give abuse as the public don't have the luxury of parliamentary privilege.

You were implying that they were going to close their websites and ban social commentary on the net.

And it's not ok to give abuse. I'd love to see how you'd react to it. But then again I suppose you're the type who thinks they're all crooks anyway :rolleyes:

sean200

Shane was to good for politics as he was to honest and he cared to much and FG made him hold the party line
He did not allow politics corrupt him unlike the rest of them

spikethedog

Fishooks13 wrote: »

You were implying that they were going to close their websites and ban social commentary on the net.

And it's not ok to give abuse. I'd love to see how you'd react to it. But then again I suppose you're the type who thinks they're all crooks anyway :rolleyes:

I was being sarcastic for Gods sake. :rolleyes:
I'm not a TD, I don't get the big bucks and the expense accounts at taxpayers expense. If ya can't stand the heat and all that.....
The name of this thread is 'social media caused the suicide of a politician'.
I don't believe it did.
By all accounts the worst abuse that man received was through text messages, not to mention from opposition TD's and across the floor of DE.
He had other problems too and as I've said it'll become clear over time.
I think Shane McEntee was too honest and hard working to be a politician.

leggo

spikethedog wrote: »

I'm not a TD, I don't get the big bucks and the expense accounts at taxpayers expense. If ya can't stand the heat and all that.....

This made me laugh so much. It's essentially you saying, "No I couldn't take the abuse I give out! But I'm glad to have someone in place for me to abuse anyway!"

What people don't realise, too, is that them feeling an obligation to abuse people is actually contributing to this mess. How many of the bullies who admit they couldn't take the abuse they give out, would never be a TD etc, wish there were more competent people in place to run our country? Well with Shane McEntee's death...you just lost an absolute ****load of potentially well educated, qualified people who are now unwilling to become TDs. Why would they?! You admit yourselves you wouldn't have the bottle to put your neck on the line.

And you can't blame the government for that, either. This one is squarely on the section of the electorate who feel it's their right to abuse TDs freely. Congratulations, your inability to participate in politics in a civilised manner just put off a bunch of intelligent, competent people from becoming politicians. You've hurt yourselves and your families in the process. Well done on that.

spikethedog

leggo wrote: »

This made me laugh so much. It's essentially you saying, "No I couldn't take the abuse I give out! But I'm glad to have someone in place for me to abuse anyway!"

What people don't realise, too, is that them feeling an obligation to abuse people is actually contributing to this mess. How many of the bullies who admit they couldn't take the abuse they give out, would never be a TD etc, wish there were more competent people in place to run our country? Well with Shane McEntee's death...you just lost an absolute ****load of potentially well educated, qualified people who are now unwilling to become TDs. Why would they?! You admit yourselves you wouldn't have the bottle to put your neck on the line.

And you can't blame the government for that, either. This one is squarely on the section of the electorate who feel it's their right to abuse TDs freely. Congratulations, your inability to participate in politics in a civilised manner just put off a bunch of intelligent, competent people from becoming politicians. You've hurt yourselves and your families in the process. Well done on that.

Your obviously one of the bandwagon jumpers who believe Shane McEntee killed himself because of what was aimed at him on social media.
That's what this thread is about.
Did you know anyone who took this route?
I do, and I can tell you there's always a multitude of reasons why people decide to end their lives.
Where do you stand on the abuse TD's throw at each in dail eireann?
I would have thought that type of abuse was worse because it's been thrown by people who are supposed to be representing thousands of people.

leggo

I said in my first post that I didn't blame social media, as it's only a medium, but it's very possible that he did kill himself due to abuse from others. And his family - you know people actually close to the situation and not commenting having never met or probably even heard of the guy - say the same. So I'd tend to believe them above the "there were other reasons..." crowd.

Of course, if you'd have actually read the thread like you demand others do, you'd know all of this already...

And I do know people who've committed suicide. But I'm not the type who'd disrespect their deaths by using it to try and win a petty debate on a message board. So I won't be bringing up their reasoning here, thank you.

spikethedog

leggo wrote: »

And I do know people who've committed suicide. But I'm not the type who'd disrespect their deaths by using it to try and win a petty debate on a message board. So I won't be bringing up their reasoning here, thank you.

Well then you will know full well that trying to blame one thing and one thing alone is futile.
This thread is called 'social media caused the suicide of a politician'.
I contend that it didn't.
That is all.

liammur

spikethedog wrote: »

Well then you will know full well that trying to blame one thing and one thing alone is futile.
This thread is called 'social media caused the suicide of a politician'.
I contend that it didn't.
That is all.

I agree, social media didn't help, nor did the radio phone-in shows etc.

I heard he had big debts, is there any truth to that?

nuac

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'm not sure if legislation is even needed. You can already get a court order to obtain someone's details.

It is expensive to get such court orders