Do you personally know any Irish Jews?

iCosmopolis

לילה טוב

charlemont

lapsed wrote: »

Legend has it that they were fleeing the Limerick Pogrom and while waiting for passages out of Ireland Cork people made them welcome and quite a few stayed.

Mayor Goldberg's family came to Cork after that pogrom. It was while he was mayor that the Trinity pedestrian bridge was opened by the Synagogue.

Hippies!

Everyones so multi everything here I don't know no Jews and I've never met a Jew, I don't recall having ever seen one in my entire life except on telly box.

The end.

ascanbe

My name is URL wrote: »

Many are. Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion.

No it isn't.
It's a religion.
In the same way being Catholic or Muslim is a religion, not an ethnicity.

Zebra3

Never met (knowingly) any jews.

Used to be friends with a couple from Israel, but they were non-religious so therefore not jews as a jew is someone who practises judaism.

They actually hated muslims and jews (their words, never mentioned christians or other loons) as they despised religion and all the hatred that it bred.

Fantastic people.

sock puppet

Zebra3 wrote: »

They actually hated muslims and jews

They sound lovely

Lightbulb Sun

Yeah, one at least, possibly two (now not sure if she's Jewish, maybe I heard the wrong info)

Lightbulb Sun

minidazzler wrote: »

Maybe he just has a bit of Cavan in him?

The Jewish person I know is from Cavan.

Dave147

bluewolf wrote: »

Yes

I hate these answers so much, I remember when they used get thanks too.

Rhys Essien

Former Lord Mayor of Cork
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Goldberg

Founder of the Cork Symphony Orchestra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloys_Fleischmann

Former CEO of Lehman Brothers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Glucksman

Rasheed

Yeah, a couple that I used to work with. Didn't really know the husband but the wife was a dote.

She used to cook fabulous food and bring it in to us when we were working the nights.

HoggyRS

9959 wrote: »

"where we keep them" is the unfunny disgusting bit.

You're severely lacking in a sense of humour. Harmless joke based around how Jewtown used be a thriving neighbourhood of jews.

Siuin wrote: »

You would not believe how many times the nose thing crops up in otherwise 'polite' conversation. What would be considered completely socially unacceptable in countries with large Jewish communities (such as the US) is tolerated far too much here.

I remember being on a college night out in first year when a guy from my class announced to me that people always thought he was Jewish because he had a huge nose. Another time I was sitting at the dinner table with my (new) housemates when one started bitching about a guy in her class who apparently looked like a 'Jew' and a 'rat'. Had some fun drawing out some cringeworthy anti-semitic jibes before the girl beside her typed on her phone that I am Jewish and slid it across the table to her. Very embarrassing for the girl in question. And only 2 weeks ago I was hit on by a guy in a pub who, after asking about my name and realising that I'm Jewish, slid a penny across the table to me. I looked at him, confused and he sat in silence for a minute before whipping it back again and saying "wow, you didn't take it! are you sure you're Jewish??" The guy in question was German, as if it wasn't awkward enough.

So, yeah, moral of the story; stereotypes are BS. And it's not amusing for a Jewish person to hear them, no matter how cute or funny anyone thinks they are.

I feel bad for Jews in Ireland about how its common enough to still hear a tight person be called a Jew. I hear it all the time, in fact I know a fella whose nickname is "jew", as in thats what people often call him and it is because he is notoriously tight with money.

Toby Take a Bow

Zebra3 wrote: »

Never met (knowingly) any jews.

Used to be friends with a couple from Israel, but they were non-religious so therefore not jews as a jew is someone who practises judaism.

I'd know a few Jewish people who would consider themselves atheist (or close to it) but still participate in the practices. It seems reasonably common, and not a million miles away from the 'a la carte Catholicism' that some/many Irish people practice. Judaism is generally considered to have aspects of religiosity and ethnicity attached to it.

Zebra3 wrote: »

They actually hated muslims and jews (their words, never mentioned christians or other loons) as they despised religion and all the hatred that it bred.

Fantastic people.

They sound like the opposite of fantastic people.

Qualitymark

All the jokes in the thread so far have been lame, imho.

People can be paranoid - though from what Siun says, they may have reason to be. I went for a wander around a little Jewish graveyard off Clogher Road, for the same kind of reason I'd wander in Mount St Jerome, which it backs on to - that graveyards are peaceful, contemplative places. A gardener was working there, and he was quite hostile; almost threatening in his manner. He didn't speak to me, but kept moving around after me, glaring. I nodded and said hello; he said nothing, but continued vibing me out; I went off to somewhere more peaceful.

And I had an acquaintance who sadly died last year - a really lovely lady I often met in the park when dog-walking. We got to know each other quite well, and would argue back and forth about Palestine and Israel while still really liking each other. One day I'd been watching The Pianist, and remarked on the gorgeous Adrien Brody's extraordinary nose. I didn't actually know he was Jewish; I'd thought he was Irish because of his name. Anyway, she said: "But wouldn't you think it's a noble nose, a grand nose?" I thought about it and said "Yes!"

By the way, if anyone wants really nice food from Israel and Palestine, Yotam Ottolenghi's book Jerusalem (€30 in Easons, €18.40 on Amazon, €20 in Chapters) has mouthwatering recipes and photos.

Edit: forgot to say, a lot of Jews immigrated in the 1900s - in the censuses you see them listed, mainly in the medical profession and in textiles, and I think one civil servant, at that stage; they all seem to have come from Russia - I assume from the Ukraine, where there were vicious pogroms going on at that time.

mikemac1

Some rip off from Easons

looksee

Deleted User wrote: »

So I'd best check where someone's from once they've mentioned they're Jewish? Gotcha. :pac:
Genuine question, I thought most of the Jews in Ireland were descendants of those who were here before the holocaust, did many come afterwards?


Again, you say they're rare but I'm genuinely struggling to think of a graveyard or church within 10 miles of me that hasn't at the very least been properly vandalised in the last 10 years or so that I know of. It's a stupidly common thing for bigots of every description. Threats aren't acceptable in any way. Would it be cheaper maybe to get CCTV to identify those who do such things rather that have people sweeping the place? Also surprising they need to check names with how small the community is. :pac:

Buttonftw, would you ever leave the goalposts alone? And checking up on the meanings of 'irony' and 'whataboutery' would help too.

dlofnep

It's been an interesting thread to read. Particularly with respect to the boundaries of Jewish people. I know Irish people in general can be quick to throw in a jeer, without any malice - But I have heard a few times the phrase "Stop being a Jew!", so I know stereotypes do exist. I understand the paranoia, particularly when a huge population of the Jewish community was wiped out during WW2. I understand why that paranoia still exists, and why the Jewish community remains quite homogeneous.

I think it's to the shame of Ireland that we refused refugee entry during WW2. However, I shouldn't think it's a genuine reflection of Ireland overall. This back and forth dialogue is a positive thing. Keep posting Siuin.

Madam_X

Don't think it was intended as just a yes/no question though - tell us more!

It's massively disingenuous of that poster to say Christian churches are attacked to the same extent as synagogues; think they might be attempting to say "Boo hoo, the Jews are whining about persecution!" I don't blame Jewish people for feeling persecuted. Although being opposed to Israeli state excessive force is not anti Semitic.

Siuin

Zebra3 wrote: »

Never met (knowingly) any jews.

Used to be friends with a couple from Israel, but they were non-religious so therefore not jews as a jew is someone who practises judaism.

They actually hated muslims and jews (their words, never mentioned christians or other loons) as they despised religion and all the hatred that it bred.

Fantastic people.

These kinds of people are really, really in the minority. So much so that in all my life I've never met anyone like this. There are tonnes of people who identify as being Jewish but who are atheist in their beliefs- the two are not incompatible. It's difficult to describe what Judaism is, but in my opinion it's a 'nation' as opposed to simply being a religion. However, I don't believe that it's a 'race' because people can convert to Judaism and Jews have different physical characteristics.

I remember a kindly old lady wandering up to me in the synagogue and telling me outright that she doesn't believe in God :P A bit bizarre to say it there, but lots of people just love the communal aspect, the traditions and the 'togetherness' that being part of the Jewish community brings. It's very warm and friendly and after services everyone goes around shaking hands, kissing cheeks and wishing eachother 'shabbat shalom'.

Last pesach/passover I was at a table with about a dozen Israelis and we read from the haggadah and did all the ritual aspects of the day but not even one of them was religious. One was quite a hardcore atheist, another was openly gay, another was there with his pregnant non-Jewish German girlfriend and there were also two Irish non-Jewish guys who were dating Israeli girls in the group. They don't care about rules or even if God exists, but it's really great just to sit as a group and do all the traditional things and spend that time together. It's about being part of a people and something beyond individualistic society. And the food is is awesome lol. Part of the pesach seder (the order of the passover ritual) is a song called 'Vehi Sheamda' and its message is really powerful and pretty much is an explanation of why we need to be close and look out for eachother. The words in English are:
"And this (Hashem’s blessings and the Torah) is what kept our fathers and what keeps us surviving. For, not only one arose and tried to destroy us, rather in every generation they try to destroy us, and Hashem saves us from their hands."
i.e. in every generation there are people who want to destroy the Jewish nation, but every time the Jewish people manage to live on despite the attempts of others. Grown men cry over songs like these, because I think it has a resonance with everyone in its own way.

For these Israelis to say that they 'hate' Jews and Muslims is really... extreme to say the least. Yes, there is some resentment of the ultra-Orthodox in Israel because many simply don't function as part of greater society, not paying taxes or serving in the army and attacking outsiders. Yes, there is some resentment of fundamentalist Muslims for obvious reasons. But to say that a person hates all Muslims and Jews simply because they believe in their religion is a bizarre thing to hear.

Celly Smunt

I knew a jew once,he was a twat.Not because he was jewish,just because he was a twat.

Siuin

pmcmahon wrote: »

I knew a jew once,he was a twat.Not because he was jewish,just because he was a twat.

Yeah, we've got plenty of those floating about.

Celly Smunt

Siuin wrote: »

Yeah, we've got plenty of those floating about.

plenty of jews? plenty of twats?,plenty of jewish twats?

Siuin

pmcmahon wrote: »

plenty of jews? plenty of twats?,plenty of jewish twats?

All of the above :P

dvpower

nocoverart wrote: »

Good grief! there should be a place where we can keep Cork people... preferably
a small inlet north of Siberia.

We keep them mostly in Cork.

brimal

!בוקר טוב

It's good to see a positive and informative thread on Irish Jews. I have learned a few new things through some posts on this thread, some very nice stories too.

To answer the OP, I am acquainted with several Irish Jews, Israeli Jews living in Ireland and know plenty of Jews in Israel.

Seaneh

Madam_X wrote: »

It's massively disingenuous of that poster to say Christian churches are attacked to the same extent as synagogues;

They are though, probably more so. In India, China, some Muslim countries (in Iran it's fairly common for Christian's to be targeted by the Islamic Guard and other fanatical groups, where as in Tehran, Jewish communities tend to be left alone)and Israel (Especially in the North, 1500 year old monasteries being destroyed and the monks forced out of the area by recent European/American settlers). Oh, and certain areas of Northern Scandinavia...

My name is URL

ascanbe wrote: »

No it isn't.
It's a religion.
In the same way being Catholic or Muslim is a religion, not an ethnicity.

I'm pretty sure the term 'Jewish' can also be used to describe a person's ethnicity and heritage. Afaik there have even been genetic studies which have identified markers which are far more prominent in Jewish populations than others.

Seaneh

Zebra3 wrote: »

Never met (knowingly) any jews.

Used to be friends with a couple from Israel, but they were non-religious so therefore not jews as a jew is someone who practises judaism.

They actually hated muslims and jews (their words, never mentioned christians or other loons) as they despised religion and all the hatred that it bred.

Fantastic people.

Your friends just sound like dicks, to be honest...

Benny_Cake

I worked in a job with two Irish Jews, one was the soundest bloke you could meet, one a complete dick (nothing to do with his faith, he would have been a dick regardless). It's a shame to see the fall in numbers among the Jewish community because of young people leaving for London, Manchester and so on, but given the fact that the majority of Irish Jews are Orthodox it's probably understandable as it must be difficult to live here given the lack of kosher shops and restaurants, not to mention marriage partners.

mayotom

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the term 'Jewish' can also be used to describe a person's ethnicity and heritage. Afaik there have even been genetic studies which have identified markers which are far more prominent in Jewish populations than others.

So you are saying that people CAN look like a jew, contrary to earlier discussion on this thread.


Also Why is it that many jewish people fail to identify with their country of birth?
I have travelled a lot due to work and have met many people where the chit chat conversation brings up the question. Where are you from? in answer most people answer with a recognised Country, Some minorities would say places like the Basque country or Kurdistan. But the most confusing for me is the Answer I'am Jewish. I never asked them what their religion was.. So why tell me. This has happened at least a dozen times over the past few years. Why? I have never had anybody of any other religion reply in this way.

Wibbs

mayotom wrote: »

Also Why is it that many jewish people fail to identify with their country of birth?
I have travelled a lot due to work and have met many people where the chit chat conversation brings up the question. Where are you from? in answer most people answer with a recognised Country, Some minorities would say places like the Basque country or Kurdistan. But the most confusing for me is the Answer I'am Jewish. I never asked them what their religion was.. So why tell me. This has happened at least a dozen times over the past few years. Why? I have never had anybody of any other religion reply in this way.

Historical reasons for the most part. Plus whether they identified as [insert country here] depended on how individual societies/countrys in history regarded them as a group.

To be fair they've bloody good reason to feel separate, even paranoid throughout the last 2000 years. The nazi muppets back in the 1930's didn't invent the hatred out of thin air. The joke was that Germany was one of the more integrated cultures regarding Jews before that madness kicked off, so if it could happen there... They've been identified in christian Europe as "christ killers" and "well poisoners" and all sorts of daft crap for a very long time and had been isolated, threatened and murdered for it. That prick Goebbels and his lackeys just recycled all that shít.

So you can understand them feeling more "Jewish" than "Irish/British/German/etc". After all if the society sees you as "Jew" first(regardless of background or even practice of faith) it makes sense for you to do the same. Look at some of the stuff on this thread and it's very tame(noses? Seriously?), but there's an awful lot of guff about regarding them as a group.

delthedriver

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I worked in a job with two Irish Jews, one was the soundest bloke you could meet, one a complete dick (nothing to do with his faith, he would have been a dick regardless). It's a shame to see the fall in numbers among the Jewish community because of young people leaving for London, Manchester and so on, but given the fact that the majority of Irish Jews are Orthodox it's probably understandable as it must be difficult to live here given the lack of kosher shops and restaurants, not to mention marriage partners.

I am sorry to hear that the numbers of people in the Irish Jewish Community is in such decline . It seems a shame that they have to move on to Manchester etc.my recollection of the young Jewish girls at school, reminds me that they were all beautiful, bright , intelligent , ladies whom I thought would have no difficulty in finding marriage partners

Benny_Cake

Wibbs wrote: »

Historical reasons for the most part. Plus whether they identified as [insert country here] depended on how individual societies/countrys in history regarded them as a group.

To be fair they've bloody good reason to feel separate, even paranoid throughout the last 2000 years. The nazi muppets back in the 1930's didn't invent the hatred out of thin air. The joke was that Germany was one of the more integrated cultures regarding Jews before that madness kicked off, so if it could happen there... They've been identified in christian Europe as "christ killers" and "well poisoners" and all sorts of daft crap for a very long time and had been isolated, threatened and murdered for it. That prick Goebbels and his lackeys just recycled all that shít.

So you can understand them feeling more "Jewish" than "Irish/British/German/etc". After all if the society sees you as "Jew" first(regardless of background or even practice of faith) it makes sense for you to do the same. Look at some of the stuff on this thread and it's very tame(noses? Seriously?), but there's an awful lot of guff about regarding them as a group.

Yeah, before the 1930s the Zionist movement in Germany was almost non-existent, but things changed as the Nazi persecution began. Up until then German Jews would have seen themselves as 100% German. They were always a very small minority of the German population but produced some big names and great minds,such as the Mendelsohn family, Karl Marx, and Albert Einstein. That wasn't enough to save them however.

I can't say that I've ever met someone who identified as Jewish when asked where they were from though. It's obviously an big part of their identity, but any Jews I've ever met loved their country as much as anyone else.

Benny_Cake

delthedriver wrote: »

I am sorry to hear that the numbers of people in the Irish Jewish Community is in such decline . It seems a shame that they have to move on to Manchester etc.my recollection of the young Jewish girls at school, reminds me that they were all beautiful, bright , intelligent , ladies whom I thought would have no difficulty in finding marriage partners

Orthodox Judaism discourages intermarriage though and since most Irish Jews are Orthodox the pool of talent is somewhat limited! I think that there is a Progressive synagogue in Dublin too, they generally don't have a big problem with intermarriage but they are a minority within the community here.

biko

Maybe I do know some Irish Jews, it hasn't come up in conversation. I know some Israelis living here though.

Ravelleman

Many.

ProudDUB

It's not about the ladies not being bright or beautiful enough to attract marriage partners, its that the potential marriage partners are just not there in numbers enough to satisfy the needs, of both sexes I'd imagine. If there are only a couple of thousand Jewish people in Ireland, only a few hundred of them would be single men & women in the 25-35 age demographic. That is a very, very small pool of people to chose from if you want to meet and marry within your faith, but still marry someone whom you love and are actually attracted to.

Morag

Yes several, nice people the lot of them.

nacho libre

One of my worst friends is from Israel. He loved his first visit to Ireland and wants to come back. His girlfriend loves Irish music and our landscape, but won't come here because of what has been spoken about earlier in this thread.

...__...

I know many Jews from a lot of countries Ireland being one of them. I also know when someone is full of **** like when people say there Jewish andthere not. Something quite scary in that obsession.

Siuin

mayotom wrote: »

Also Why is it that many jewish people fail to identify with their country of birth?

That's bizarre. Once again, I've never met a Jewish person who would ever answer with "I'm Jewish" when asked where they're from. I can understand bitterness towards one's country of birth because of the actions of their government against them. However, like anyone else you'll always find people who are more or less patriotic than others. I'd happily say that I'm both nationalist and Jewish- I don't see any contradition between the two. That said, once I finish my studies I don't intend on staying in Ireland.

As has already been discussed, there's a real lack of suitable partners here- it'd seem almost incestuous to date anyone from the community at this stage! :P We've spent waaay too much time together! It's very common for Americans, Israelis or Eastern Europeans to attend services while they're working here short term or just passing through and they offer the possibility of a match. I've been introduced to a few guys this way (usually by their mothers lol). They're generally men who would be 8-10 years older than me and considered more 'marriage minded'- however, almost all of them turn out to have a non-Jewish girl lurking in the background though.

I've dated non-Jewish guys and they're great, but the older I get the more I'd like to have a Jewish family where I wouldn't always have to explain everything all the time. That said, I have many Israeli friends who have settled down with Irish non-Jewish guys and are extremely happy. They find a way of balancing the two traditions and were posting pictures of their menorah in front of a big Christmas tree on facebook recently :P But these girls don't attend services or have any interest in being observant, which is fine. I'm thinking I'd like to cover my hair and go to the mikveh when I'm married though, not to mention having a proper Jewish wedding, and if you marry a non-Jewish guy it simply isn't happening.

olly_mac

I have a number of Jewish friends. All Irish.

Rhys Essien

nacho libre wrote: »

One of my worst friends is from Israel. He loved his first visit to Ireland and wants to come back. His girlfriend loves Irish music and our landscape, but won't come here because of what has been spoken about earlier in this thread.

What was that?

Seaneh

mayotom wrote: »

So you are saying that people CAN look like a jew, contrary to earlier discussion on this thread.


Also Why is it that many jewish people fail to identify with their country of birth?
I have travelled a lot due to work and have met many people where the chit chat conversation brings up the question. Where are you from? in answer most people answer with a recognised Country, Some minorities would say places like the Basque country or Kurdistan. But the most confusing for me is the Answer I'am Jewish. I never asked them what their religion was.. So why tell me. This has happened at least a dozen times over the past few years. Why? I have never had anybody of any other religion reply in this way.

A any Irish or American Jews I know would answer "Irish" or "American" if asked their nationality. I even know an Iranian Jewish Family living in London (left just before the Islamic Revolution) and they identify themselves as Iranian... I've never met anyone, outside of Israel, who would answer "I'm Jewish". And even then, it tended to be American Jewish students, not Israelis, who usually said "Israeli".

Defiler Of The Coffin

Very interesting thread with some excellent contributions from Siuin! First time I met an Irish Jew was in Sydney a few years ago, had no idea of her creed until she told me. She didn't seem in any way 'Jewish' to me but that was probably down to simple ignorance on my part. Certainly had a few questions for her! I don't think there's many of them in the West of Ireland, from what I gather from this thread they seem to be mainly concentrated in Cork and Dublin?

Alan Shatter is Jewish also I believe?

Carlos Orange

Siuin wrote: »

That's bizarre. Once again, I've never met a Jewish person who would ever answer with "I'm Jewish" when asked where they're from. I can understand bitterness towards one's country of birth because of the actions of their government against them. However, like anyone else you'll always find people who are more or less patriotic than others.

I guess the issue of dual loyalties is a touchy one. I was in India with a French friend in December 2008. There was a French guy on his mobile and my friend was a bit put out because the French guy (presumably Jewish) was referring to the IDF as we. They were both French and both Jewish but had very different identities. I don't think many Irish people would refer to a foreign army as we but then some of them think the RIRA is the Irish army. In practice I feel I have far more in common with people from other countries that read XKCD than I do with most Irish people.

MadYaker

Yeah Alan Shatter is Jewish. I always think the fact that our minister for justice is jewish and nobody cares is great. Can you imagine what would happen in the USA or the UK or any other western democracy if a jewish man was made minister for justice? I don't think it could ever happen.

Death and Taxes

MadYaker wrote: »

Yeah Alan Shatter is Jewish. I always think the fact that our minister for justice is jewish and nobody cares is great. Can you imagine what would happen in the USA or the UK or any other western democracy if a jewish man was made minister for justice? I don't think it could ever happen.

Michael Howard former British Home Secretary (then equivalant of Justice Minister) and also Conservative Leader.
Plenty of Jewish politicans in the UK and USA, always has been.

InTheTrees

Not sure if this has been mentioned but one of the former presidents of Israel was from Belfast, thats a pretty lofty achievement.

"Herzog was born at Cliftonpark Avenue in Belfast, the son of notable Rabbi Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog, who was Chief Rabbi of Ireland from 1919 to 1937 (and later, of Palestine and Israel),[2] and Sara (née Hillman).[citation needed] The family home (from 1919) was at 33 Bloomfield Avenue, Portobello in Dublin, Ireland. His father, a fluent speaker of the Irish language, was known as "the Sinn Féin Rabbi" for his support of the First Dáil and the Irish Republican cause, during the Irish War of Independence. [3]Herzog studied at Wesley College, Dublin and was involved with the Federation of Zionist Youth during his teenage years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Herzog

Madam_X

Deleted User wrote: »

No it's not, you're clearly being obtuse. Same as how if someone described Irish people as white when some aren't.

Ah now... You obviously know she means not all Jewish people have the look of, say, Ross from Friends. Yes, those physical traits are common among a number of Jews, but there are also Jews who have completely different facial traits, hair colour, skin tone. Surely you know that?

Seaneh wrote: »

They are though, probably more so. In India, China, some Muslim countries (in Iran it's fairly common for Christian's to be targeted by the Islamic Guard and other fanatical groups, where as in Tehran, Jewish communities tend to be left alone)and Israel (Especially in the North, 1500 year old monasteries being destroyed and the monks forced out of the area by recent European/American settlers). Oh, and certain areas of Northern Scandinavia...

But we're obviously talking about Ireland on this thread.

Wibbs wrote: »

To be fair they've bloody good reason to feel separate, even paranoid throughout the last 2000 years. The nazi muppets back in the 1930's didn't invent the hatred out of thin air. The joke was that Germany was one of the more integrated cultures regarding Jews before that madness kicked off, so if it could happen there... They've been identified in christian Europe as "christ killers" and "well poisoners" and all sorts of daft crap for a very long time and had been isolated, threatened and murdered for it. That prick Goebbels and his lackeys just recycled all that shít.

Yeh, some unreal horror going on in e.g. former Soviet countries long before the nazi regime. Good film about that - not Fiddler On The Roof but The Fixer.