Do you personally know any Irish Jews?

InTheTrees

MadYaker wrote: »

Can you imagine what would happen in the USA or the UK or any other western democracy if a jewish man was made minister for justice? I don't think it could ever happen.

Can we imagine?

Kid, the USA is the largest jewish country and yes, there have been jewish Attorneys General (the equivalent of "minister for justice").

Dunno about the UK but both Milliband brothers are jewish arent they?

And wasnt Disraeli jewish?

Here's a list of jewish US Supreme Court justices (a higher honour than Attorney General):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_United_States_Supreme_Court_justices

looksee

looksee wrote: »

Buttonftw, would you ever leave the goalposts alone? And checking up on the meanings of 'irony' and 'whataboutery' would help too.

What?

Madam_X wrote: »

Ah now... You obviously know she means not all Jewish people have the look of, say, Ross from Friends. Yes, those physical traits are common among a number of Jews, but there are also Jews who have completely different facial traits, hair colour, skin tone. Surely you know that?

As I was accused of above, goalposts are being moved. It's similar to how it would be fair to assume that someone with a surname of O'Something had recent Irish heritage even though the majority of people in Ireland now don't have such surnames.

HoggyRS

I've always been quite interested in anti-semitism in Ireland as part of my interest in the history of the far right in this country. Some notable Irish anti-semites were Arthur Griffith, Fr. Denis Fahey and all those involved in Ailtirí na hAiséirghe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailtir%C3%AD_na_hAis%C3%A9irghe).

InTheTrees

Lets clear one thing up. Judaism isnt a race.

You cant identify a jew from a blood test.

Anyone can convert at any time they want and once they do they'll be jewish.

Basically they've been persecuted for so many thousands of years that they're learned to stick to themselves hence the confusion about race.

Rhys Essien

George Hook is from Jewtown in Cork.(No 79.Albert Road)

Wibbs

InTheTrees wrote: »

Lets clear one thing up. Judaism isnt a race.

No, but it's more associated with one population of people than most religions. Like Hinduism and unlike the other Abrhamic faiths they don't seek conversions as part of their faith.

You cant identify a jew from a blood test.

It depends. Most Jews would have European genetic markers because of their very long time in the place and intermarriage, but they would also have middle eastern markers too. Indeed IIRC there were a group of sub Saharan Africans whose cultural history/legends said they were a "lost tribe" and they followed an an unorthodox form of the faith. They were found, or some of them anyway had middle eastern markers(particularly the men I seem to remember?).

Anyone can convert at any time they want and once they do they'll be jewish.

It's not like Christianity or Islam where you essentially "turn up*", converting to Judaism is quite the longwinded process.


*OK that's simplistic, but with Islam you basically say you believe in the prophet and away you go. Christianity is a little more longwinded but not by that much.

Rhys Essien

Very good documentary here called Shalom Belfast.It was only filmed this year in Northern Ireland by the Jewish filmmaker Itamar Ben Canaan.Well worth a watch.Its only 40mins long.Its about the people in the Norths views on Israeli's and Palestinians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvZMbhG5Dc

Rhys Essien

The first Jew in politics in Ireland was the elected Mayor of Youghal in Cork in 1555.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Annyas

InTheTrees

Wibbs wrote: »

It depends. Most Jews would have European genetic markers because of their very long time in the place and intermarriage, but they would also have middle eastern markers too. Indeed IIRC there were a group of sub Saharan Africans whose cultural history/legends said they were a "lost tribe" and they followed an an unorthodox form of the faith. They were found, or some of them anyway had middle eastern markers(particularly the men I seem to remember?).

SO to recap... No, you cant identify jews from a blood test.

Geographical markers have no connection to religious belief.

Siuin

psinno wrote: »

I guess the issue of dual loyalties is a touchy one. I was in India with a French friend in December 2008. There was a French guy on his mobile and my friend was a bit put out because the French guy (presumably Jewish) was referring to the IDF as we. They were both French and both Jewish but had very different identities. I don't think many Irish people would refer to a foreign army as we but then some of them think the RIRA is the Irish army. In practice I feel I have far more in common with people from other countries that read XKCD than I do with most Irish people.

It's really interesting to see how people perceive themselves so differently despite technically having the same identity. Personally, if I was talking about Israelis or the IDF in conversation I would say 'we', much the same as I would about Irish people. It's not that I don't feel Irish, but I just would affiliate myself with them simply because they're Jews too.

Wibbs

Rhys Essien wrote: »

The first Jew in politics in Ireland was the elected Mayor of Youghal in Cork in 1555.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Annyas

I'd say that was rare enough anywhere in the rest of Europe.

yizorselves

I know a few, not fond of buying a round

Qualitymark

For interest: James Connolly's 1902 Yiddish election leaflet http://comeheretome.com/2010/03/01/james-connolly-yiddish-election-leaflet-1902/

lapsed

InTheTrees wrote: »

Lets clear one thing up. Judaism isnt a race.

You cant identify a jew from a blood test.

Anyone can convert at any time they want and once they do they'll be jewish.

Basically they've been persecuted for so many thousands of years that they're learned to stick to themselves hence the confusion about race.

Let's clear another thing up then. The anti-semitic movement in Germany , France and elsewhere clearly stated that Jews constituted a race within a race; something which could not be tolerated. And I'm talking about the 19th century writings of George von Schoenerer , Adolf Stoecker , Eugene Duehring and Edouard Drumont. If you think that anyone writing, " What the Jew believes is neither here or there: In the Race lies the Swinishness " , is concerned with whether JC was the Messiah or not then you are very naive .

Wibbs

InTheTrees wrote: »

SO to recap... No, you cant identify jews from a blood test.

Well you can to some degree, unless you want to get really pedantic. IE if you have someone with deep genetic European history with the addition of deeper middle eastern markers and slightly narrower more related lines, a guess that they were Jewish wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

Geographical markers have no connection to religious belief.

Not with individuals, but with some populations they can have. EG someone with Japanese ancestry and location is far more likely to be a Buddhist than a Christian. Ditto with folks from India who just by the stats would more likely be Hindus. Indeed if you found genetic markers that suggest someone is from Ireland the likelihood that they're some flavour of Christian would be overwhelming.

deandean

I know one scientologist.
I know two creationists.
I don't know any Jews.

Siuin

Qualitymark wrote: »

For interest: James Connolly's 1902 Yiddish election leaflet http://comeheretome.com/2010/03/01/james-connolly-yiddish-election-leaflet-1902/

That's really cool! The title states "Dublin Municipal Election, January 15th 1902" - never saw anything like this before, thanks for posting it

R P McMurphy

Just to add fuel to the fire of the earlier jokes about Jewish people and Cavan someone told me before that there actually is a substantial orthodox Jewish community in Cavan . This is due to a meat factory there and the preparation of meat for export to Israel.

Sulla Felix

My dry cleaner is jewish.

Death and Taxes

lapsed wrote: »

Let's clear another thing up then. The anti-semitic movement in Germany , France and elsewhere clearly stated that Jews constituted a race within a race; something which could not be tolerated. And I'm talking about the 19th century writings of George von Schoenerer , Adolf Stoecker , Eugene Duehring and Edouard Drumont. If you think that anyone writing, " What the Jew believes is neither here or there: In the Race lies the Swinishness " , is concerned with whether JC was the Messiah or not then you are very naive .

True, but to some degree the Germans also viewed the Catholics are something similar , hence the Kulturkamp in the late 19th century.

Sound of Silence

rain on wrote: »

I had dinner with one once, I think he's dead now.

Was the food that bad?

bluecode

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

If you can hold an opinion that a 'race' of people are generally good, you should be able to understand the reverse.

Interesting that my comment that I was 'pro Semitic' should generate several adverse comments. As if admiring a people or a race is somehow the moral equivalent and justification for those who hold an opposite view.

What if I said I was pro French or pro American or pro Arab? I doubt the reaction would be similar.

Apparently it seems you can only be anti Semitic or simply hold no opinion positive or negative.

Sound of Silence

bluecode wrote: »

Interesting that my comment that I was 'pro Semitic' should generate several adverse comments. As if admiring a people or a race is somehow the moral equivalent and justification for those who hold an opposite view.

What if I said I was pro French or pro American or pro Arab? I doubt the reaction would be similar.

Apparently it seems you can only be anti Semitic or simply hold no opinion positive or negative.

Being Pro in regards to any specific Race or Creed usually inspires negative connotations, especially when the reason behind this particular attitude is the belief that the group in question is somehow innately superior to others.

Generally such an attitude doesn't inspire much enthusiasm in rational Human Beings, as it's often inspired by the absence of critical thought - as evidenced by your immediate accusation of Antisemitism when your views were challenged.

My name is URL

bluecode wrote: »

Interesting that my comment that I was 'pro Semitic' should generate several adverse comments. As if admiring a people or a race is somehow the moral equivalent and justification for those who hold an opposite view.

What if I said I was pro French or pro American or pro Arab? I doubt the reaction would be similar.

Apparently it seems you can only be anti Semitic or simply hold no opinion positive or negative.

I think it was more the 'if Jews ran the country we'd all be rich' part of your comment that people reacted to (that's the bit that surprised me anyway, given the rest of your post).

That's not pro-Semitic, all you've done is apply a stereotype in a positive sounding way. It's still a stereotype though.. and if one was to be pedantic they could say that any stereotype is by definition anti-whatever.

Amalgam

Mid 80s, went into Stratford College to find dyslexic Aryans had broken in, nearly every inch of the hallways covered in reverse swastikas, a lot of penises too. Odd combination.. all a bit Freudian.

Israeli President (Herzog?) visited too, on the day, I bumped into a pair of very terse and grumpy security personnel guarding the downstairs library, first time seeing any sort of guns up close. Strangely, they were accompanied by what looked like a labrador, maybe for bomb detection.

Chaim Herzog's Wiki page details some of the interesting strands intertwining Irish and Israeli politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Herzog

The nature of the Jewish holidays led to a lot of half days and long week-ends for the gentiles..

Qualitymark

Amalgam wrote: »

Israeli President (Herzog?) visited too, on the day, I bumped into a pair of very terse and grumpy security personnel guarding the downstairs library, first time seeing any sort of guns up close. Strangely, they were accompanied by what looked like a labrador, maybe for bomb detection.

Guns? Foreign security guards with guns? In Ireland?

steddyeddy

I lived in Kimmage for a bit. Just around the corner from Terenure. There has been a jewish community there for sometime.

Seaneh

Qualitymark wrote: »

Guns? Foreign security guards with guns? In Ireland?

yeah... not exactly likely...

Carlos Orange

InTheTrees wrote: »

And wasnt Disraeli jewish?

Church of England actually. Religiously speaking.

Sulla Felix

Seaneh wrote: »

yeah... not exactly likely...

Secret Service were armed for Obamas visit as were the SO14 when the Queen was here. Discreetly, but even so.

John Mason

i do and he is a fellow boardsie

Madam_X

bluecode wrote: »

Interesting that my comment that I was 'pro Semitic' should generate several adverse comments. As if admiring a people or a race is somehow the moral equivalent and justification for those who hold an opposite view.

What if I said I was pro French or pro American or pro Arab? I doubt the reaction would be similar.

Apparently it seems you can only be anti Semitic or simply hold no opinion positive or negative.

I find it strange to be pro any people tbh. Still find Judaism very interesting and certainly am not anti-semitic, but I don't consider myself pro-semitic in order to demonstrate how much I object to anti-semitism. And I am very much anti the Israeli state/military stance re Palestine.

pipelaser

Went out with an Irish Jewish girl for 3 and a half years.... twice!

What I learned about her and her family....

They were probably the most compassionate and generous people I've ever met.

Education was the prioritised over money

They prioritised getting to know important people in society rather than just being happy with their own friends.

Each child in the family, despite the three in the family being very different, each had amazing creative minds. Serious operators!

I truly think that if Jewish people have an advantage over gentiles its that when they apply themselves to one subject/job/project, they have a massive capacity, drive and willingness to be the best in that particular field.

Have a look at the amount of Nobel Prize winners and you'll know what I'm talking about!

There are two members of the Republic of Loose that are Jewish BTW! (Not the lead singer!)

The Snipe

Yes, a friend of mine, who is actually a boardsie.

InTheTrees

lapsed wrote: »

Let's clear another thing up then. The anti-semitic movement in Germany , France and elsewhere clearly stated that Jews constituted a race within a race; something which could not be tolerated.

SO what? Its still nonsense.

Go read about DNA research, instead of political propagandists (with an agenda) from the 19th century.

Funny guy...

InTheTrees

Wibbs wrote: »

Well you can to some degree, unless you want to get really pedantic. IE if you have someone with deep genetic European history with the addition of deeper middle eastern markers and slightly narrower more related lines, a guess that they were Jewish wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

Well yes, you can make guesses. You could guess that someone from Ireland is a Catholic too.

However I meant that scientifically you cant identify a jew from DNA.

In other words judaism is not a race.

lapsed

InTheTrees wrote: »

SO what? Its still nonsense.

Go read about DNA research, instead of political propagandists (with an agenda) from the 19th century.

Funny guy...

It's not nonsense when you're under attack, is it ? When the midnight knock came for the round-up how did..." look, here's my genetic profile " go down ?

InTheTrees

lapsed wrote: »

It's not nonsense when you're under attack, is it ? When the midnight knock came for the round-up how did..." look, here's my genetic profile " go down ?

Absolutely. My maternal grandmother was jewish (from England) which means technically (according to the arbitrary nazi rules) myself and my siblings would have been eligible for a concentration camp. Creepy.

But there wasn't any science behind it just lunatic psycho nazi ideology.

They believed all sorts of things that weren't true.

1968

There's been quite a few books written on the history of the Irish-Jewish community including:

Dublin's Little Jerusalem - Nick Harris

Jews in Twentieth Century Ireland: Refugees, Anti-Semitism and the Holocaust - Dermot Keogh

Shalom Ireland: A social history of Jews in modern Ireland - Ray Rivlin

Jewish Ireland in the Age of Joyce: A Socioeconomic History - Cormac ó Gráda

9959

We should never forget the contribution that people of Jewish origin, have made, and are making, to:
Philosophy
Science
Literature
Cinema
Music
Chess
..........and just about anything else that makes us human beings feel glad to be alive, but for me their greatest gift to the world is their ability to make us laugh!

Ghost Buster

Our Lady of Knock. She's Jewish...

DEFTLEFTHAND

I wouldn't say I know him but I've met Alan Shatter through business, my father would know him better. He used to piss the barristers off big time by representing his client himself in the four courts. (he's a solicitor by trade) Fair play to him, a lot of those barristers need to be brought down a peg or two.

poeticseraphim

Smashius_Clay wrote: »

The Jewish population in Ireland is extremely small (1,930 in the 2006 census). I was wondering if anyone here knows or has ever met a Jew living in Ireland? I know Portobello in Dublin had a large Jewish population at one stage, apparently.

I don't just mean knowing people in the public eye, like Alan Shatter, but actually knowing ordinary, practicing Jewish people.

There are Jews in my family and my family did business at one time with Jewish businesses. We used to go to Jewish shops to buy certain stuff my Dad liked.

Yeah I would say I know a few.

Stradford college is a Jewish secondary school in Dublin. My friend went there.

Galwayguy35

Nope, don't know any Jews.

I work with alot of Polish guys and they all hate them though for some reason.

Chuck Stone

pipelaser wrote: »

Education was the prioritised over money

They prioritised getting to know important people in society rather than just being happy with their own friends.

Each child in the family, despite the three in the family being very different, each had amazing creative minds. Serious operators!

I truly think that if Jewish people have an advantage over gentiles its that when they apply themselves to one subject/job/project, they have a massive capacity, drive and willingness to be the best in that particular field.

Have a look at the amount of Nobel Prize winners and you'll know what I'm talking about!

Not sure if elaborate troll or sycophant.

Laneyh

Qualitymark wrote: »

Guns? Foreign security guards with guns? In Ireland?

So the Queen and Obama didn't have foreign security with guns no ?
Maybe they were foreign police

fryup

the jews (and the protestants for that matter) were cold-shouldered out of the republic

SimonLynch

poeticseraphim wrote: »

There are Jews in my family and my family did business at one time with Jewish businesses. We used to go to Jewish shops to buy certain stuff my Dad liked.

Yeah I would say I know a few.
Stradford college is a Jewish secondary school in Dublin. My friend went there.

Stratford's been multi-denominational for a good while now, I went there in the eighties and my class was half Jewish and half Catholic/Protestant. I think that Jewish students are in a minority now.

evolving_doors

Christ on a bike.. Would someone please close this thread, it's obvious OP is making a list..

Siuin

Armelodie wrote: »

Christ on a bike.. Would someone please close this thread, it's obvious OP is making a list..

and he's checking it twice! :O