Hmv

omnithanos

miamee wrote: »

What's to stop them selling the whole lot to another retailer?

Whats the point of keeping the shop open if they are going to do that?

omnithanos

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Did you just compare yourself protesting against a business that is following the law to Michael Collins?
:eek:

I don't think they are following the law though that's the point.

rocksolid

interesting....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21023016

Procrastastudy

NoelDoran wrote: »

interesting....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21023016

Aren't they always. Once just once I'd like them to walk out and say "No we're pretty f**ed guys. Sorry." I bet gamestop and over the moon. Now that they've a cornered market how much do we reckon a new release PS3 or 360 game is going to be.

WolfgangM

upandcumming wrote: »

Totally disagree with this.
Just because they're losing their jobs, or their dog died, or they slipped on the ice or any of that other ****, has nothing to do with the fact that they should be honouring the vouchers they issued.

The employee is still employed by HMV. If they're worried about not getting paid etc, don't go in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Myrddin

NoelDoran wrote: »

interesting....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21023016

Corporate waddle.

I do hope they manage to salvage the jobs for the employees sakes though

kennethsmyth

dudara wrote: »

Taking items and not paying for them is theft. The fact that the payment would have been made via voucher is irrelevant.

POSTERS - I do not want to see any further discussion regarding entering HMV stores and making protests. This could possibly place you in a position of trespass. Any further discussion of this will result in immediate infractions and/or bans

dudara

Apologies Dudara, but as you have quoted me and I have made no such indication whether implied or not of taking goods or protesting I feel I must reply.

I have merely eluded that paying for the goods by a voucher that the company has said is not accepting can be construed as a civil issue and not criminal. I have not said to take the goods off the shelves or protest.

sandin

ah come on, the stories about HMV closing have been going on for over a year. They lost £37 MILLION last year. They closed a raft of shops, they were losing hand over fist and they were odds on favourites to be the first major retail casualty of the year with paddy power.

Though on the other hand if they acted properly, they shouldn't have been selling vouchers for the past 6 months as their survival depended on a great christmas and with many suppliers not supplying them and customers going online, their survival was always in doubt.

Procrastastudy

sandin wrote: »

ah come on, the stories about HMV closing have been going on for over a year. They lost £37 MILLION last year. They closed a raft of shops, they were losing hand over fist and they were odds on favourites to be the first major retail casualty of the year with paddy power.

Isnt Paddy Power the place you can bet on anything... wonder what odds they'll give me that their next.

Corruptedmorals

sandin wrote: »

Though on the other hand if they acted properly, they shouldn't have been selling vouchers for the past 6 months as their survival depended on a great christmas and with many suppliers not supplying them and customers going online, their survival was always in doubt.

They couldn't have done that, the share price would have collapsed and it would have meant fairly rapid liquidation. Warning signs like the Love/Hate boxset and other stock levels are enough but that would have ruined their chances of a pick up over Christmas and also of being sold as a going concern.

melekalikimaka

omnithanos wrote: »

I think I would have every right to protest in such a way in that case.

you can protest alright, every right to, but you'll be protesting against a perfectly legal and common practice with folding companies, and probably wasting your time, would be nice for them to honour them, i gort a credit note recently for a tablet , so large sum, and accepted its not gonna be honoured, maybe you should suck it up and move on

Procrastastudy

They may start accepting them again so don't give up hope yet. IIRC that what GAME ended up doing.

AnonoBoy

omnithanos wrote: »

I think I would have every right to protest in such a way in that case.

No you wouldn't. You could protest outside the shop but certainly not inside it.

Dravokivich

omnithanos wrote: »

I think that the HMV brand as you call it should suffer until they agree to redeem these vouchers. Why are you on their side?

He isn't, he's just telling you to cop on.

Occono

I honestly couldn't afford to buy that much in there lately (last I got was Simpsons Season 8 at Christmas), but I never bought stuff online instead, I like getting stuff impulsively and having it straight away. And I like discovering some obscure DVD that looks interesting and kind of familiar but I wasn't look directly for. And they're cheaper then GameStop for Games. I never bought CDs, but I'm not a music connoisseur, I don't buy much music (nor illegally download it either mind). I knew this was coming, they had way too much stock and it was all too expensive and surely cost too much to manage, but........I'm gutted. I love HMV

omega666

melekalikimaka wrote: »

you can protest alright, every right to, but you'll be protesting against a perfectly legal and common practice with folding companies, and probably wasting your time, would be nice for them to honour them, i gort a credit note recently for a tablet , so large sum, and accepted its not gonna be honoured, maybe you should suck it up and move on[/QUOTE



You make it sound as if they are doing us a massive favor to honour them!!
They must have millions of euros worth of people money for a service they are refusing to provide. Even selling vouchers to people up to close of business yesterday when at that point Top Management knew they were worthless. It's dosen't fall far short of theft to be honest.

I've no intention of letting them keep my money and have started a charge back on my credit card.

melekalikimaka

omega666 wrote: »

[
You make it sound as if they are doing us a massive favor to honour them!!
They must have millions of euros worth of people money for a service they are refusing to provide. Even selling vouchers to people up to close of business yesterday when at that point Top Management knew they were worthless. It's dosen't fall far short of theft to be honest.

I've no intention of letting them keep my money and have started a charge back on my credit card.

i wish you all the best with your charge back, cant see it working as you dont have a case, but sure you seem to think you know it all so fire ahead

Procrastastudy

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i wish you all the best with your charge back, cant see it working as you dont have a case, but sure you seem to think you know it all so fire ahead

No reason why he wouldn't have a case under the VISA rules and also under the SOGASOS Act. The Credit card company are a party to the transaction. I'd actually say a charge-back rather than dressing up as Michael Collins (or what ever was suggested) is probably the vest course of action at the moment.

melekalikimaka

Procrastastudy wrote: »

No reason why he wouldn't have a case under the VISA rules and also under the SOGASOS Act. The Credit card company are a party to the transaction. I'd actually say a charge-back rather than dressing up as Michael Collins (or what ever was suggested) is probably the vest course of action at the moment.

he bought vouchers, which state their validity can be rescinded at any time... he got what he paid for, not really a dud deal

galwayjohn89

I don't see any reason why charge back wouldn't be accepted.

quikquest

All the talk here about the vouchers reminds me of a time when I worked in a shop while in college.

One Sunday morning at 9.20, a member of the travelling community came into the shop and wanted to get 4 boxes of bud. I told him the law is we cannot sell until 10am or 12am (forget now what it was) and he came a little aggressive. I told him unfortunately I don't make the law and while its irrelevent If I agree or not with him there is nothing I can do as the till won't allow me to scan them.

He became very polite and walked out of the shop. Came back in 2 mins later with another guy, picked up 2 buds each, walked over to me and said "I am going to walk out of the store with these and leave the €60 here on the counter. That way you haven't served me and I haven't stolen" and out he went :O

I almost died so went and told the manager (incase someone in the shop thought I sold them to him) and he rang the guards and told them what happened. They said "nothing we can do as it wasn't theft"??!?!?!? In my book it was theft! But I was ok as long as I didn't get a fine or in trouble or get the shop closed down for a few days for selling alcohol out of hours. The Guard say there was nothing I could have done differently. :O

Anyway just saying this as you reminded me of it

sink

melekalikimaka wrote: »

he bought vouchers, which state their validity can be rescinded at any time... he got what he paid for, not really a dud deal

Actually a chargeback is being recommended by news papers and consumer advocacy groups as the best method to resolve it.

https://www.google.ie/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&tok=4vLQrtER6m4w1ZvYkuqRdA&cp=22&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=hmv+voucher+chargeback&es_nrs=true&pf=p&safe=off&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=hmv+voucher+chargeback&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41018144,d.ZG4&fp=b07bce3bcb1f0c9d&biw=1600&bih=1115

Skid

melekalikimaka wrote: »

he bought vouchers, which state their validity can be rescinded at any time... he got what he paid for, not really a dud deal

Still a valid case for a Chargeback. Anyone who has unused vouchers purchased recently on a Credit Card should definitely initiate a Chargeback claim.

Procrastastudy

melekalikimaka wrote: »

he bought vouchers, which state their validity can be rescinded at any time... he got what he paid for, not really a dud deal

I find it hard to believe that there is any clause in the contract that allow them to be zero valued (as opposed to rescinded which is subtly different). Even if there were it's likely illegal. What's probably happening here is HMV are claiming frustration - certainly one to let VISA weigh in on.

Procrastastudy

quikquest wrote: »

All the talk here about the vouchers reminds me of a time when I worked in a shop while in college.

One Sunday morning at 9.20, a member of the travelling community came into the shop and wanted to get 4 boxes of bud. I told him the law is we cannot sell until 10am or 12am (forget now what it was) and he came a little aggressive. I told him unfortunately I don't make the law and while its irrelevent If I agree or not with him there is nothing I can do as the till won't allow me to scan them.

He became very polite and walked out of the shop. Came back in 2 mins later with another guy, picked up 2 buds each, walked over to me and said "I am going to walk out of the store with these and leave the €60 here on the counter. That way you haven't served me and I haven't stolen" and out he went :O

I almost died so went and told the manager (incase someone in the shop thought I sold them to him) and he rang the guards and told them what happened. They said "nothing we can do as it wasn't theft"??!?!?!? In my book it was theft! But I was ok as long as I didn't get a fine or in trouble or get the shop closed down for a few days for selling alcohol out of hours. The Guard say there was nothing I could have done differently. :O

Anyway just saying this as you reminded me of it

Thread on that situation in Legal Discussion if you're interested. I've argued it is theft but criminal matters require proof on Mens rea (guilty mind). More qualified people have argued that it's not theft.

Myrddin

melekalikimaka wrote: »

he bought vouchers, which state their validity can be rescinded at any time... he got what he paid for, not really a dud deal

Em, the voucher doesn't state their validity can be rescinded at any time. From the actual voucher in my hand, this is what is states:

HMV reserves the right to discontinue the gift card scheme at any time upon reasonable notice in which case all cards will automatically expire and any remaining balance deducted. Any relevant notice will be communicated by in store displays and the HMV website

You reckon selling vouchers up until last night & rescinding them today is valid practice? I don't remember seeing a note in store, nor a message on the HMV website do you?

chasm

When Comet went into administration in the UK they initially refused to accept gift vouchers but reversed the decision a few days later, hopefully that will be the case here too. I don't have vouchers myself but there seems to be good few people here on boards who do, so fingers crossed for ye guys

Shelflife

If the management knew that the vouchers that they were selling were likely to be worthless then a fraud has been committed.

Accepting cash for a future service that you know you will be unable to fulfil is fraud.

In the same way that a company or person knowingly issues a cheque that will bounce they can be charged with fraud.

the fact that the voucher holder is now an unsecured debtor does not alter the fact that a fraudulant transaction may have taken place.

Oafley Jones

Some amount of bar stooling in this thread.

Skid

Dermot Jewell from The Consumers Association of Ireland was on The RTE News talking about the HMV Vouchers.

He said unless you paid for them by Credit Card they are "worthless" and "you might as well throw them away".

He really should choose his language more carefully. There is still a chance that the Vouchers might be honoured (partially or in full) in a restructured HMV (as in other cases). It might be a small chance but he will look very foolish if customers throw vouchers away which are still of some worth to them.