Hmv

A Dub in Glasgo

This epitomises why buying gift vouchers to give as presents is stupid. Give cash or buy something

Dilbert75

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

This epitomises why buying gift vouchers to give as presents is stupid. Give cash or buy something

Unfortunately this type of hindsight wisdom is of little benefit to the recipients of these gifts of a little plastic card. I'm keeping mine just in case - they start accepting them again or in case there's a frosty night and my windscreen gets frozen over.

A Dub in Glasgo

It is not hindsight when it has happened so many times before, it is foresight!

Occono

I wouldn't buy Gift cards, but I did trade in games there a lot, they gave more credit then Game or Gamestop. I didn't have any left over at the moment though.

Rory1

I'm surprised at a lot of the comments on here.

I can we see why people would be annoyed at loosing money on gift card but its absolutely nothing to do with any staff member in shops. I doubt the most senior people in Ireland knew before last night that company was going into administration today. HMV staff knew the business was in trouble but they didnt know when or if it would collapse. The writing has been on the wall for a long time: having to sell Watersones and their profitable live music business and other assets last year. There have been so many indicators that company was in trouble I cant understand how any informed person would buy a voucher from the shop. Lesson for people, read or listen to the news more often and you wont be caught out.

I'm no legal expert but I understand vouchers are no different to any other unsecured creditor. You can argue that it should be different but if so, you need to take issue with members of our Dail for a change in law not HMV and you certainly shouldn't take it out on ordinary staff in shops.

Regarding the argument, HMV sold vouchers on Monday that they knew they would not be able to honor. It is likely that there was some development yesterday which meant that they had to apply for administration or stop trading. If you can prove otherwise, then you are arguing that they were trading recklessly - I would be very surprised if directors allowed this, they would risk making themselves personally liable. No directors would take that risk.

P_1

In case this hasn't been posted folks, please think of the staff in HMV if you're intent on going into the shops to see what can happen with the gift vouchers.

At the moment, they are looking at the genuine prospect of losing their jobs, which is naturally a very worrying issue for them. Being shouted at/abused by joe public over something that is totally beyond their control can only make things worse for them.

A bit of perspective:
Losing out on the value of your giftcard sucks
Losing your job sucks a boat load more

If you know somebody who is intent on going to the shops please point out this helpful bit of perspective.

argentum

I can't believe people did not know that they were about to close down.I posted on my facebook page in early december that they would close on january 14th .The Sunday times had a big article about exactly what was about to happen

Twoandahalfmen

dudara wrote: »

Taking items and not paying for them is theft. The fact that the payment would have been made via voucher is irrelevant.

POSTERS - I do not want to see any further discussion regarding entering HMV stores and making protests. This could possibly place you in a position of trespass. Any further discussion of this will result in immediate infractions and/or bans

dudara

If we want to we will. If were not getting the value of the card to spend on products were no goinh to sit back. If you worked your 40 hour week and were told younwant being paid would you sit back or protesy.!!!!

jaxdasher

argentum wrote: »

I can't believe people did not know that they were about to close down.I posted on my facebook page in early december that they would close on january 14th .The Sunday times had a big article about exactly what was about to happen

Unfortunately for us we aren't friends with you on fb.

uck51js9zml2yt

argentum wrote: »

I can't believe people did not know that they were about to close down.I posted on my facebook page in early december that they would close on january 14th .The Sunday times had a big article about exactly what was about to happen

I was in there last weekend and didn't know.. I've a fiver on a voucher after changing a dvd for another one.

The fact around vouchers is that they are seen from a store perspective as a debt making voucher holders creditors..
As an unsecured creditor we are way down the food chain.

Those wanting to steal and protest.....get over it.

.jacksparrow.

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

If we want to we will. If were not getting the value of the card to spend on products were no goinh to sit back. If you worked your 40 hour week and were told younwant being paid would you sit back or protesy.!!!!

But this is the law with folding companies,they don't have to pay out,it happens when small businesses fold,suppliers are stung etc

dudara

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

If we want to we will. If were not getting the value of the card to spend on products were no goinh to sit back. If you worked your 40 hour week and were told younwant being paid would you sit back or protesy.!!!!

You can do what you want. But you will not organise it via this forum.

I think Rory1 has summed up the entire situation well here. Gift vouchers are a form of unsecured creditor. The only way to get real change is to petition your TD to look for better legislation around gift vouchers. In fact, I urge everyone to do this.

Rory1

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

If we want to we will. If were not getting the value of the card to spend on products were no goinh to sit back. If you worked your 40 hour week and were told younwant being paid would you sit back or protesy.!!!!

The person who purchased voucher received a piece of paper that was only as good as the credit worthiness of HMV. Ignorance of law is not a good enough reason to break it in my opinion. Under Irish and UK law liability to employees is very different to those holding unsecured vouchers. You are not comparing like with like.

Myrddin

Adan Noisy Uncle wrote: »

The fact around vouchers is that they are seen from a store perspective as a debt

Convenient that. How is the profit from the sale of vouchers seen then, free money?

Rory1

EnterNow wrote: »

Convenient that. How is the profit from the sale of vouchers seen then, free money?

It's not profit, company has a liability to holder of voucher it just cant pay it.

Myrddin

Rory1 wrote: »

It's not profit, company has a liability to holder of voucher it just cant pay it.

Let me rephrase it, where does the money from the sale of a voucher go? Is it used in this case to pay off other debts?

Rory1

EnterNow wrote: »

Let me rephrase it, where does the money from the sale of a voucher go? Is it used in this case to pay off other debts?

The money goes into the same pot as all unrestricted cash.

Someone on here has made the recommendation that companies should be forced to hold money in a restricted account or an escrow account to the value of outstanding vouchers. Then if the company went bust, consumers would be protected as funds in escrow account would be used to refund customers.

Unfortunately for the consumer, no such law currently exists.

Andy454

It should be illegal to sell vouchers, to exchange of cash for non-legal tender should be banned.


Theres a post on this thread dating back to 24th of december, advising people to cash in their vouchers, any vouchers sold in or around this date should be seen as fraud, the company new it was tanking and continued to sell vouchers.

What would stop someone with one of these vouchers (a creditor) walking in to hmv and taking merchandise to the original value of the voucher going to the clerk and handing over the voucher and taking the merchandise (i.e. seizing the goods), isn't that what happens when debt collectors call to the door to sieze goods to the value of the loan...

I would think that anyone with a voucher is now entitled to lodge a petition to wind up the store with immediate effect..

Rory1

Andy454 wrote: »

It should be illegal to sell vouchers, to exchange of cash for non-legal tender should be banned.


Theres a post on this thread dating back to 24th of december, advising people to cash in their vouchers, any vouchers sold in or around this date should be seen as fraud, the company new it was tanking and continued to sell vouchers.

I dont think a post on boards.ie on 24 Nov is good enough evidence to suggest the company traded recklessly.

I agree there should be either more protection for consumers or there should be information campaigns / ads to better educate consumers of their rights.

I was working for a company which failed in October and some vouchers had been given out. Unfortunately the owners of the vouchers were considered unsecured creditors and didn't get anything back.

In response to the question of where the money went, well it went to the preferred creditors (Revenue and any unpaid employee wages are the big ones).

miller50841

Andy454 wrote: »

It should be illegal to sell vouchers, to exchange of cash for non-legal tender should be banned.


Theres a post on this thread dating back to 24th of december, advising people to cash in their vouchers, any vouchers sold in or around this date should be seen as fraud, the company new it was tanking and continued to sell vouchers.

What would stop someone with one of these vouchers (a creditor) walking in to hmv and taking merchandise to the original value of the voucher going to the clerk and handing over the voucher and taking the merchandise (i.e. seizing the goods), isn't that what happens when debt collectors call to the door to sieze goods to the value of the loan...

I would think that anyone with a voucher is now entitled to lodge a petition to wind up the store with immediate effect..

Heard somewhere down the country people went into the store and collected goods to the value of the voucher then left voucher on counter and walked out heard they had to close the door's

A Dub in Glasgo

There is zero protection regarding vouchers which is why it is stupid to buy them especially from a retailer who has been struggling for months. We are in a recession / depression and it is far more likely that retailers will go to the wall. Hopefully, this example will cause people to pause and refuse to buy vouchers, that is the angle the media should look at. Give cash or buy something

Gers_punto

Apparently there was people walking into hmv in limerick today and leaving there vouchers on the till and walking out with goods. The shop had to close because of it

omnithanos

Gers_punto wrote: »

Apparently there was people walking into hmv in limerick today and leaving there vouchers on the till and walking out with goods. The shop had to close because of it

That sets a precedent so n'est pas?

Gers_punto

Gers_punto wrote: »

Apparently there was people walking into hmv in limerick today and leaving there vouchers on the till and walking out with goods. The shop had to close because of it

Seems to be happing a lot.

Q. Is it against the law to just walk out with goods to the value of my gift vouchers?

We're surprised how many have asked us this, but yes, it is theft, a criminal offence and you can be arrested.

Like everyone else HMV owes money to, you're now a creditor and its assets (which includes its stock) need to be distributed in a set way by law.

the groutch

seems to be true

http://www.limerickleader.ie/lifestyle/entertainment/concerns-for-30-jobs-at-hmv-in-limerick-1-4683339

doesnt surpise me that it happened in Limerick

athtrasna

Was relieved to found out that the person I bought the voucher for spent it before the end of December. I had bought the voucher in early December but the warnings on here were enough for me to pass on a warning to him to spend it fast. Thanks to the posters who predicted the demise way in advance of the staff - I find it incredible to hear that staff learned of this on last night's news.

JimsAlterEgo

guy on today fm said yesterday they are on dodgy ground refusing them as only UK company is in administration, Irish company is not.

A Dub in Glasgo

I thought it was the Group company that went into administration taking both the UK arm and the Irish arm into administration / receivership

JimsAlterEgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I thought it was the Group company that went into administration taking both the UK arm and the Irish arm into administration / receivership

apparently not and legally nothing has changed here