Hmv

ednwireland

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/grandad-walks-out-of-hmv-with-computer-games-after-staff-refuse-to-accept-gift-voucher-3354747.html

fair play to him, if the shops are closed then not accepting vouchers is well obvious, but refusing to accept vouchers when your still operating (the day after you were still selling them) is theft imo

A grandfather who bought his grandson a €40 HMV gift voucher for Christmas took on the store's administrators yesterday – and 'won'.

Eric Nolan, from Tyrellstown, Dublin, strolled out of the HMV on Henry Street with three computer games for his grandson, having failed to

The total price for the three items was €62.39, reduced to €46.80 when a 25pc discount was applied. Mr Nolan then made several unsuccessful attempts to get the shop's staff to accept his voucher for the computer games his grandson wanted.

Undeterred, Mr Nolan then marched out the door with the items.

He told the Irish Independent that he intended to post the voucher and the balance of €6.80 to the HMV store so that they would be forced to take it.

wonder what would happen if everyone tried that, you'd need to arrange a time and date to have load of people to turn up (safety in numbers)

Sadderday

ednwireland wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/grandad-walks-out-of-hmv-with-computer-games-after-staff-refuse-to-accept-gift-voucher-3354747.html

fair play to him, if the shops are closed then not accepting vouchers is well obvious, but refusing to accept vouchers when your still operating (the day after you were still selling them) is theft imo





wonder what would happen if everyone tried that, you'd need to arrange a time and date to have load of people to turn up (safety in numbers)

fair play - this is a last straw for some people that havent a cent and scratched together enough € to present a voucher to a loved one. I'd do the same.

SachaJ

I spoke to the NCA yesterday evening and they advised a chargeback if possible but they admitted that what HMV (Ireland) is doing is illegal and are "looking into it".

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/services/corporate-finance/93a34f0356f3c310VgnVCM3000003456f70aRCRD.htm

Certain HMV Group plc subsidiaries including HMV Guernsey Ltd, HMV Hong Kong Ltd, HMV Ireland Ltd, HMV Singapore Ltd and 7Digital Group remain outside of an insolvency process.

It seems I was wrong - the UK administration order does not cover Ireland.

It should be business as usual in Ireland (until they appoint an examiner or something locally)

Myrddin

Karsini wrote: »

In response to the question of where the money went, well it went to the preferred creditors (Revenue and any unpaid employee wages are the big ones).

So in effect, HMV took what was essentially free money they got from the public & used it to pay their own debts?

sandin

Seperate thread to give real info about what you can do legally.

Firstly, when a company goes into receivership/examination it in a way ceases to exist and the receivers/examiners effectiely operate it from that point as a seperate entity. Therfore legally whilst the vouchers were issued by HMV ltd or whatever the parent company name is, but from the point of receivership, the stores are operated by a seperate legal entity such as kpmg t/a HMV. So legally (its not right nor moral) offering a HMV voucher in one of their stores is as good as offering a tesco club card voucher to them - useless.

In terms of priority revenue, staff and banks with secured debt get priority over any funds that are available.

Funds left after that are shared on an equal basis with all other creditors. This includes unsecured bank debt, all suppliers, landlords, rates and unfortunately voucher holders.

The partial good news for voucher holders is that if the vouchers were paid for with a Credit Card or VISA debit card (not laser and not mastercard debit card) the person who bought the voucher simply initiates a chargeback.

The credit card company does not have to get it off HMV - they claim from an insurance fund which is funded by a small charge on every credit card and visa debit card transaction. Unfortunatley Laser and Mastercard Debit do not participate in this scheme.


So if yu have a voucher, check with the person who bought it, how they bought it. If by credit card or visa debit, give it back to them and get them to do the chargeback.

For those who paid with cash / laser / mastercard debit cards, the only option is hope or exchange them for tickets to the comedy club in Dublin this weekend. (nice marketing by them)

RoboRat

Any company that sells vouchers should be bonded like travel companies. In order to sell vouchers, they must have the cash set aside in case they go bust and then they can at least reimburse the voucher holder. Or another idea is to keep the cash from the sale of the voucher separate from their takings until the voucher is redeemed.

Bottom line, I wont buy another voucher again or put a deposit down until there is some legal protection.

Jasper79

Statement on HMV



Wednesday 16 January, 9.30am
Following the announcement in the UK that HMV was entering into administration, the National Consumer Agency has been actively working to seek clarification as to the implications for Irish consumers.
Having investigated the issues and engaged with a number of key employees of HMV and the UK administrators, Deloitte, the NCA has established that HMV in the Republic of Ireland is a separate corporate entity to the UK operation. Furthermore, HMV (Ireland) Ltd. is not currently under administration or examinership.
The NCA would therefore question the basis upon which gift vouchers/cards were not honoured in Irish stores yesterday, 15 January and is calling on HMV (Ireland) Ltd. in Ireland to honour its contracts with consumers and accept all gift vouchers with immediate effect.
The NCA is meeting with HMV this morning with a view to securing a commitment that gift vouchers will be honoured.
Published Date: 16/01/2013
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This is from the NCA website this morning, looks like HMV have no legal standing for not accepting gift vouchers in Ireland. Hopefully will be resolved after meeting today, I will use my gift vouchers then not spend another cent in HMV for however much longer they last.

Bigcheeze

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Guys from a legal perspective, the Irish company is not under any court protection from creditors....yet. Administration is a UK process only. The Irish equivalent is Examinership. I don't see what legal basis the Irish store have for refusing to honour vouchers. If they can't honour them they should not be opening their doors today and should be applying for Examinership or liquidation.

This is what I posted at 9.46am yesterday. Good to see the highly paid NCA and Deloitte are catching up with me 24 hours later.

bucks73

Jasper79 wrote: »

Hopefully will be resolved after meeting today, I will use my gift vouchers then not spend another cent in HMV for however much longer they last.

I'll be doing the exact same even though I used them. I like having CDs and DVDs/Blu Rays still so HMV was still getting my business up until this.

Cabaal

this doesn't need a separate thread,

All the answers have been given if people would just read the thread,

Also NCA has said they should be accepting the vouchers in Ireland
http://www.thejournal.ie/hmv-accept-gift-vouchers-756230-Jan2013/

[EDIT] this response is in relation to the separate thread entitled HMV Vouchers - your options started by sandin

Jasper79

bucks73 wrote: »

I'll be doing the exact same even though I used them. I like having CDs and DVDs/Blu Rays still so HMV was still getting my business up until this.

They really have shot themselves in the foot with this. The UK business is in Admininstration, the Irish business is probably going to follow soon without generating badwill with thousands of their customers. I use HMV regularly and always have but now would rather give my business elsewhere than a company that deliberately tried to rip off it's customers.

ozzy jr

After hearing about the NCA statement on HMV, I went down to Dundrum. They have the shutters pulled down and a message saying they might be open later.

They refused my voucher yesterday. If they reopen under administration I'll be livid (this is assuming they're not in administration as per NCA statement).

Basq

ozzy jr wrote: »

After hearing about the NCA statement on HMV, I went down to Dundrum. They have the shutters pulled down and a message saying they might be open later.

They refused my voucher yesterday. If they reopen under administration I'll be livid (this is assuming they're not in administration as per NCA statement).

Yep, HMV Grafton Street closed too.

HMV Grafton Street
(courtesy of @seanear1ey)

Myrddin

There must be a lot of vouchers out there waiting to be redeemed, if they're willing to close the stores over this? Being a separate entity to the UK, I assume they're free to continue trading if they please?

Mr Trade In

Just heard on the radio they are closed for staff meetings.

Bigcheeze

EnterNow wrote: »

Being a separate entity to the UK, I assume they're free to continue trading if they please?

Nope, if they can't meet their obligation to creditors they can't continue to trade.

ozzy jr

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Nope, if they can't meet their obligation to creditors they can't continue to trade.

If they can't meet their obligation to creditors, wouldn't they be in administration?

We're led to believe HMV Ireland isn't in administation at the moment.

filmbuffboy

Sad to see this happening to HMV, but theyre not doing themselves any favours by refusing to accept vouchers.

I shop there frequently enough and if they remain open in some fashion in the future, whether under a the same name or a new one, they will need to ensure customer loyalty by honouring these vouchers!

I for one will NOT shop there again if they refuse aceptance of vouchers.

Shocking way to treat your customer base

Mr Trade In

Anyone know what stores are still opened at the moment?

Bigcheeze

ozzy jr wrote: »

If they can't meet their obligation to creditors, wouldn't they be in administration?

We're led to believe HMV Ireland isn't in administation at the moment.

Their options are Examination (similar to UK administration but time limited to 100 days) or liquidation.

Edit: The third option is continue to trade but they would need to accept the vouchers and would need to be satisfied they can pay their debts. If they trade, knowing they can't pay their debts and are not under court protection, the Irish directors are very exposed personally.

HMV.com website has been taken down.

ozzy jr

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Their options are Examination (similar to UK administration but time limited to 100 days) or liquidation.

But as of yet they're still operating outside of examination, so should be accepting vouchers.

Ciarachino

Whatever about our vouchers I heard the organisers of Tiny Dancer for Lily Mae on the radio this morning! €27000 owed to them by HMV.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lily-mae-supporters-fear-hmv-wont-pay-tiny-dancer-invoice-581348.html

Bigcheeze

ozzy jr wrote: »

But as of yet they're still operating outside of examination, so should be accepting vouchers.

Sounds like the stores are shut today as the implications of what they were doing yesterday slowly dawns on them.

Cabaal

15 HMV stores around the country are closed today - http://www.thejournal.ie/hmv-accept-gift-vouchers-756230-Jan2013/

National Consumer Agency really dropped the ball on this one.

Yesterday they said on the news that the vouchers were worthless and to bin them, now they say because HMV Ireland isn't in administration they should be allowing the vouchers.....but now 15 of the stores are closed so people can't even try get them accepted.

i will say though, as annoying as it can be not having your voucher accepted I do feel sorry for the staff and the amount of crap they likely took from people yesterday about the voucher issues. Whilst loosing 20e or 50e is certainly frustrating its no were near as bad as knowing there's a very good chance you'll be out of a job soon.

For anyone thats gone through redundancy you know how hard it is, having to deal with f*cked off customer's makes a very upsetting situation even more of a nightmare for the staff.

[EDIT] Just to clarify, actually it was the Consumers Association of Ireland on the news yesterday not the NCA so I stand corrected on that Concerning that any group claiming to represent consumers made such a statement before verifying all the facts.

So it seems HMV have shut the stores in an attempt to not honour all the vouchers people have out there. It's pretty awful practice from the higher ups but I'd have to say that people should not take it out on the staff, it really is not their fault. They are not behind any of these decisions and are only trying to keep their future careers in check by ensuring they have a good reference. For many of them it would be the case that this is the only job they've ever had. They really are between a rock and a hard place so try your best not to be that rock. I've a voucher I probably won't be able to redeem too so I'm in the same boat as many of you.

ThisRegard

Cabaal wrote: »

National Consumer Agency really dropped the ball on this one.

Yesterday they said on the news that the vouchers were worthless and to bin them,

I posted in another thread yesterday that I thought that was a ridiculous statement for him to come out with. The CA have been pretty poor on this, and not for the first time either.

Mr Trade In

One of two things is happening here either the stores are closed for good due to the voucher debacle or they are closed to reprice and reset stock for a closing down sale.

Holding Page on the site below.

omnithanos

Cabaal wrote: »

i will say though, as annoying as it can be not having your voucher accepted I do feel sorry for the staff and the amount of crap they likely took from people yesterday about the voucher issues. Whilst loosing 20e or 50e is certainly frustrating its no were near as bad as knowing there's a very good chance you'll be out of a job soon.

What about all the people who have already lost their jobs and can ill afford any further losses. People can just about manage on the dole without losing little luxuries such as gift cards they may have got over christmas.