Dessie Ellis - The Sinn Fein TD who is linked to 50 murders

Seanchai

So, what precisely is the evidence against Desmond Ellis? And why hasn't it been gone through the official legal channels? Or, perhaps, it has and Dessie Ellis has done his time when charged with the available evidence?

Or is this thread going to stay open spouting groundless allegations against an innocent man?

dvpower

Seanchai wrote: »

Or is this thread going to stay open spouting groundless allegations against an innocent man?

Isn't he a convicted terrorist?

EURATS

murphaph wrote: »

It's not just about people "involved in conflict". Mandella was plotting to blow up a school full of white kids. The IRA actually did blow up children, possibly with Ellis' weaponry (we'll never know exactly what murders if any his equipment were used in, but the intent was there from Ellis). There's conflict and conflict that breaches even the various Geneva conventions! I don't expect you to be convince by my arguments and i won't be convinced that it's ok to vote for someone who made murder weapons for an organisation that engaged in the murder of children among others.

I don't know what unionists in NI think of Mandella. Do you know what all of them think about him really? I wouldn't have voted for DeValera for a whole host of reasons and believe that he set us back as a country by decades, but that's another matter.

As for what honours Britain has bestowed on Mandella, well, so what? We as a nation sent regards to Germany upon the death of Adolf Hitler...but I dare say very few of us were sad to see his demise at the time or today!

Do you defend the UK, USA et all terrorising people in 2013?

Using bombs and delivery systems constructed with components that are produced by Irish companies?

Seanchai

dvpower wrote: »

Isn't he a convicted terrorist?

Obviously not: he wasn't in the British crown forces of occupation in Ireland. He was convicted of "crimes" under British law, just as Irish people have been convicted of similar crimes under that foreign law in this country throughout the centuries. He is, in 2013, an innocent man. That you're evidently unappreciative of the tenses of the English language is lamentable.

Chips Lovell

He was convicted of crimes under Irish law as well. He was sentenced to 10 years in Portlaoise.

murphaph

EURATS wrote: »

Do you defend the UK, USA et all terrorising people in 2013?

Using bombs and delivery systems constructed with components that are produced by Irish companies?

What the fluck has any of that got to with the price of fish? If it makes you fell better, no I don't support the UK and US sticking their noses into places like the Middle East and the consequent "wars on terror" etc. but I don't vote for these Irish companies to represent me in Dail Eireann.

Why in God's name would you assume that because I dislike the likes of Ellis and would never vote for him, that I would support "state run terrorism"? :rolleyes:

murphaph

Seanchai wrote: »

Obviously not: he wasn't in the British crown forces of occupation in Ireland. He was convicted of "crimes" under British law, just as Irish people have been convicted of similar crimes under that foreign law in this country throughout the centuries. He is, in 2013, an innocent man. That you're evidently unappreciative of the tenses of the English language is lamentable.

We Irish convicted him and sentenced him to 10 years in Port Laoise for his activities.

Ash.J.Williams

I thought we knew all this and the the gfa meant this was all over and ira members were free to enter democracy which this man did and was elected?

murphaph

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I thought we knew all this and the the gfa meant this was all over and ira members were free to enter democracy which this man did and was elected?

He is legally allowed to of course. My point is simply that I wouldn't vote for him given his links to murder.

Ash.J.Williams

murphaph wrote: »

He is legally allowed to of course. My point is simply that I wouldn't vote for him given his links to murder.

me neither...but equally i would say this reporting is nonsense because we know all this..

GRMA

Lots of people have voted for him, and will continue to do so. He's a gentleman and does brilliant work as a public rep, on the back of which he got elected.

tipptom

I dont know of the story of the school kids but I do know that he is universally acclaimed across the world now and David Cameron has said Thatcher was completly wrong to say what she said about Madella.
You cant say that Dessie Ellis made bombs to target school kids or that the IRA set out to target school kids but you could say that the likes of bomber Harris was in no doubt about wiping out school kids never mind civilians when he set out and executed his plan.

My point about De velara was not about him as a politician or his policys, but do you think no one should have voted for him or Sean lemass simply because they were compromised by being involved in a conflict before that in whatever capacity,be thet bombmaker or executioner?

I think that its well known that our Unionist friends had a very high regard for the Affricans state as well as the Isreali state and its settlment policys.

My whole point here all along is this would not even be discussed only for there was the sensationalist headline made up of the 50 deaths mentioned,and I have my own problems with some elements of their campaigns but they are in politics now and let them get on with it and stay on that road and whatever thar may bring,be it more seats or wipeout.

I think there is a lot of vested interests out there especialy in the south who will say anything to get SF back in to voilence specialy with statements like "you were defeated by the British in the north"to try and push some of them who were never sure about joining the peace process in the first place but persuaded to come that road, back to the bad old times and split the party and send things in to a spiral again.

EURATS

murphaph wrote: »

What the fluck has any of that got to with the price of fish? If it makes you fell better, no I don't support the UK and US sticking their noses into places like the Middle East and the consequent "wars on terror" etc. but I don't vote for these Irish companies to represent me in Dail Eireann.

Why in God's name would you assume that because I dislike the likes of Ellis and would never vote for him, that I would support "state run terrorism"? :rolleyes:

I asked u a question..nothing to do with fish.

I didn't make any assumptions!!

Thanks for clarifying that u don't support state run terror.

U may not vote for companies specifically..but these companies are endorsed by the people u voted for and are tucked up nice and warm in bed with them.

murphaph

EURATS wrote: »

U may not vote for companies specifically..but these companies are endorsed by the people u voted for and are tucked up nice and warm in bed with them.

Have you contacted your TDs to alert them to this stuff so they have a chance to do something about it?

EURATS

murphaph wrote: »

Have you contacted your TDs to alert them to this stuff so they have a chance to do something about it?

I don't have anyTDs murphaph. And considering there is financial gain involved and considering they would be well aware of this..there is no point.

Would I also need to inform them about extraordinary rendition and troop movements through Shannon?

The Waltzing Consumer

EURATS wrote: »

I don't have anyTDs murphaph. And considering there is financial gain involved and considering they would be well aware of this..there is no point.

Would I also need to inform them about extraordinary rendition and troop movements through Shannon?

and all of this has what to do with the Dessis Ellis?

extraordinary rendition, troop movements, weapons...all cause murphaph said he/she would not give a vote for him given his links to murder

Are we going to be throwing mentions of killer fluoride in the water, companies stealing trillions of Euros in Corrib gas and people attempting to kill Dana by messing with her car tires whilst we are it?:pac:

EURATS

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

and all of this has what to do with the Dessis Ellis?


Are we going to be throwing mentions of killer fluoride in the water, companies stealing trillions of Euros in Corrib gas and people attempting to kill Dana by messing with her car tires whilst we are it?:pac:

U just did (throw mentions)....no wonder ur confused.

flutered

so the arms companys within the eu are guilty of homacide, genoside and whatever else boardsies can think of, they are being protected by the eu and their country of residence, so are yous people demanding you meps to take the correct action, if not then your posts here are all misfounded, do you think so.

EURATS

flutered wrote: »

so the arms companys within the eu are guilty of homacide, genoside and whatever else boardsies can think of, they are being protected by the eu and their country of residence, so are yous people demanding you meps to take the correct action, if not then your posts here are all misfounded, do you think so.

I blame the leg companies. They are being left in the cold

kilkennyuser

dvpower wrote: »

Fr. Dougal, the news is only released now. The alleged murders were in the past.

exactly in the PAST... if there was enough proof to charge him then he would have been charged.this is another deflection by 1 media outlet in ireland an guess what outlet that was.surly he should be judged on what he does for his community now in the PRESENT...maybe if some media outlets concentrated on what's going on in this country at the present we would be better...obviously some people don't want the peace process working i'm sure we would all prefer dessie as a TD then having to continue making a living at something he was supposely good at...be worse if he had to make a living from supplying the gangs in this country

kilkennyuser

Dotsey wrote: »

Any of these people that have emerged from a war and followed a political path have invaluable experience of the situation in the north and given the situation is far from resolved there is still a need for these people around. Don't be fooled by a peace process when there is loyalist mobs staging viscious protests about the removal of a flag, loyalist paramilitary groups yet to decommission weapons and of course dissident republicans still on the scene. We're still in the early stages of post conflict and there is still secterian issues at hand.

The people of Dublin North West elected Dessie Ellis to Dáil Éireann so why should he resign over an unproven allegation? Would anybody trust this British "forensic evidence" linking Ellis to 50 murders.
I guarantee most of the people in Finglas where Deputy Ellis is from and Ballymun/Glasnevin are well aware that he was formerly in the IRA before they voted for him and I've no doubt he will be elected again in the next election.

Fine Gael can point fingers all they want at SF over links to the IRA which for the record has been non-existent since 2005 all they want but look at how FG idolise someone like Michael Collins who carried out and ordered the execution of RIC men and other British occupying forces in their own beds on front of their families. FG also have a history of supporting fascism in the form of the German Nazi's and General Franco in Spain.

Also there's 3 or 4 senior members of the Labour Party that come to mind when people mention criminality including bank robberys, certain involvements in North Korea but lets not make allegations that can't be proven and the the same should apply to other parties making allegations about Sinn Féin's past history.

very well said!!

The Waltzing Consumer

kilkennyuser wrote: »

exactly in the PAST... if there was enough proof to charge him then he would have been charged.this is another deflection by 1 media outlet in ireland an guess what outlet that was.surly he should be judged on what he does for his community now in the PRESENT...maybe if some media outlets concentrated on what's going on in this country at the present we would be better...obviously some people don't want the peace process working i'm sure we would all prefer dessie as a TD then having to continue making a living at something he was supposely good at...be worse if he had to make a living from supplying the gangs in this country

So was the one media outlet the BBC? Independent? Breaking News, The Journal, The Sun. Seems a lot of newspapers/websites ran the story when it came out...almost seems like they do this every year about the release of thirty year papers for lots of stories...but hey, it seems easier to have a persecution complex

As for past and present, eh, would you be as forgiving for other parties like FF or FG? Bertie did things in the past and never proven in court? If there has to be proof for SF, why did McDonald accuse o'reilly of being corrupt in the Dail without evidence????

kilkennyuser

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

So was the one media outlet the BBC? Independent? Breaking News, The Journal, The Sun. Seems a lot of newspapers/websites ran the story when it came out...almost seems like they do this every year about the release of thirty year papers for lots of stories...but hey, it seems easier to have a persecution complex

did u read where i said media outlet in IRELAND by that i meant an irish newspaper??your talking about Irish editions of UK newspapers and media outlets. wouldn't you agree though for the good of the peace process an for the people of ireland and the UK that maybe media outlets shouldn't report about these kinda things because they do more harm then good?i feel it should be for the history books

The Waltzing Consumer

kilkennyuser wrote: »

did u read where i said media outlet in IRELAND by that i meant an irish newspaper??your talking about Irish editions of UK newspapers

So all the Irish newspapers, websites and public broadcaster are one media outlet?

I am not attempting to be glib, all major radio, tv, news, internet sites ran the story, so I don't think the blame the Irish Independent tactic will work

kilkennyuser

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

As for past and present, eh, would you be as forgiving for other parties like FF or FG? Bertie did things in the past and never proven in court? If there has to be proof for SF, why did McDonald accuse o'reilly of being corrupt in the Dail without evidence????

we don't need a court case ta show what bertie done but i would like bertie back to speak on our behalf in brussels..as for FG i voted for them in the last election hoping to see a change of policy so no i can't forgive them just yet..u will have to ask her why she accused him i would think she lost the run of herself TBH but hey don't quote me on that

The Waltzing Consumer

kilkennyuser wrote: »

wouldn't you agree though for the good of the peace process an for the people of ireland and the UK that maybe media outlets shouldn't report about these kinda things because they do more harm then good?i feel it should be for the history books

So censorship? I think the Church had the same idea when all those child abuse scandals happened...all in the past Eh no!

kilkennyuser

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

So all the Irish newspapers, websites and public broadcaster are one media outlet?

I am not attempting to be glib, all major radio, tv, news, internet sites ran the story, so I don't think the blame the Irish Independent tactic will work

Independent News & Media plc (INM) (LSE: INM), is a media organisation based in Dublin, Ireland, with interests in 22 countries on 4 continents[2] worldwide. The company owns over 200 print titles, more than 130 radio stations, over 100 commercial websites and many billboard locations, and is a leading press player in five countries.

persume they have no influence in our little country???

kilkennyuser

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

So censorship? I think the Church had the same idea when all those child abuse scandals happened...all in the past Eh no!

except the church couldn't deny it happened when so many victims came forward...your taking things out of context so do u suggest then that them child abuse scandals were for the better or worse for the nation?i'm glad it all came out an i'm not to worried about priests taking up arms over all of this are u?can we stick to the topic now...i'm suggesting to keep the peace process going in the right direction shouldn't we forgive an move on? everytime the media grabs a hold of this sort of stuff it opens up debates where it doesn't really matter what is said dessie will probably never be brought to a court of law over it so why put it out into the media?

dvpower

kilkennyuser wrote: »

except the church couldn't deny it happened when so many victims came forward...your taking things out of context so do u suggest then that them child abuse scandals were for the better or worse for the nation?i'm glad it all came out an i'm not to worried about priests taking up arms over all of this are u?

Are you worried that Dessie Ellis or others are going to take up arms over this?

kilkennyuser wrote: »

can we stick to the topic now...i'm suggesting to keep the peace process going in the right direction shouldn't we forgive an move on? everytime the media grabs a hold of this sort of stuff it opens up debates where it doesn't really matter what is said dessie will probably never be brought to a court of law over it so why put it out into the media?

How does discussing and debating this prevent the peace process going in the right direction?

The Waltzing Consumer

kilkennyuser wrote: »

except the church couldn't deny it happened when so many victims came forward...your taking things out of context so do u suggest then that them child abuse scandals were for the better or worse for the nation?i'm glad it all came out an i'm not to worried about priests taking up arms over all of this are u?can we stick to the topic now...i'm suggesting to keep the peace process going in the right direction shouldn't we forgive an move on? everytime the media grabs a hold of this sort of stuff it opens up debates where it doesn't really matter what is said dessie will probably never be brought to a court of law over it so why put it out into the media?

Well I would agree in regards the Church. My main point is that it is an extremely common defence to argue about "past" and "present" and things should be left alone, and I don't think that is right.

As for the Peace Process argument you are putting forward, I think it is very insincere. SF should never put people up for election who have such links to horrendous events in the first place if they are concerned with the peace process. There have been lots of papers released about other members of PIRA and Loyalist groups and these would not get this attention simply because the specific members are not elected officials and in public offices.

SF, like other parties have a huge number of members not associated with criminality, murder and terrorism, why not put them forward if they are concerned about the Peace Process?

To show a bad comparison, it would be like FF bringing back all the rejected and controversial TDs who were in charge in the lead up to the crisis, and completely ignoring the roles they played in our crisis, and if newspapers or people complained or were offended, FF would be like "stop talking about the past, it is about the present"

It is simply shifting the goalposts, don't blame the actual party who put these controversial people up for election, blame the electorate and news media who have every right to speak about such politicians and scare them by insinuating such criticism is bad for the "peace process"

The Waltzing Consumer

kilkennyuser wrote: »

Independent News & Media plc (INM) (LSE: INM), is a media organisation based in Dublin, Ireland, with interests in 22 countries on 4 continents[2] worldwide. The company owns over 200 print titles, more than 130 radio stations, over 100 commercial websites and many billboard locations, and is a leading press player in five countries.

persume they have no influence in our little country???

So? I don't see your point. Yes it is a large media company, but so what? They report what they want to, so what? I read their reports, and I can say 100% that I have read articles critical of every single political party, I have also read articles, editorials or opinions which are biased against or in support of every single party. Again, so what? That's their right, I don't agree with a lot of it but are you actually implying you would like to see interference with the fourth estate in a legal sense? Is that not a bit extreme if you are?

It is actually hilarious that people here defending or supporting Ellis have this conspiracy in their heads, and give more importance to the idea of writing about events then the taking part in these events. Posters have been more offended that the papers have written about the self confessed bomb maker and PIRA member then the actual acts themselves.

howiya

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

To show a bad comparison, it would be like FF bringing back all the rejected and controversial TDs who were in charge in the lead up to the crisis, and completely ignoring the roles they played in our crisis, and if newspapers or people complained or were offended, FF would be like "stop talking about the past, it is about the present"

It is simply shifting the goalposts, don't blame the actual party who put these controversial people up for election, blame the electorate and news media who have every right to speak about such politicians and scare them by insinuating such criticism is bad for the "peace process"

Another comparison would be Fianna Fail and Fine Gael TDs Dail Eireann after the War of Independence. Should these parties not have put these people up for election?

The Waltzing Consumer

howiya wrote: »

Another comparison would be Fianna Fail and Fine Gael TDs Dail Eireann after the War of Independence. Should these parties not have put these people up for election?

Well I think it is a bit late for an opinion on that as it happen nearly 100 years ago, but my main point would be the same.

In post-conflict, you are going to have members who played an instrumental part in violence and bloodshed. As we have seen in the North, families of the killed had to swallow their emotion, hate and shock, as murderers, bombers and terrorists were released under the Good Friday Agreement. This occurred on all sides.

This is one of the most noble mass consensuses ever achieved and a testament to the people of the North, to give a mandate which would allow the killers of their families and friends back on to the street, in a bid for peace. Perhaps political parties should have followed the same noble idea and respect by retiring all associated with such violence from public life in a bid to reduce any suffering from seeing murderers and terrorists in a paid political role rather then continually shoving their faces into political life.

gurramok

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

As we have seen in the North, families of the killed had to swallow their emotion, hate and shock, as murderers, bombers and terrorists were released under the Good Friday Agreement. This occurred on all sides.

No it didn't. State terrorists never saw jail time at all and are happily getting their pensions from the UK exchequer.

murphaph

gurramok wrote: »

No it didn't. State terrorists never saw jail time at all and are happily getting their pensions from the UK exchequer.

...and the Irish exchequer.

EURATS

murphaph wrote: »

...and the Irish exchequer.

Very true..and now we have the news that the loyalists are heading for Leinster House on the 12th January at 12 noon to demand the tri-colour(symbol of peace between the orange and republican traditions) be removed. Looks like a happy new year alright!!!

howiya

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well I think it is a bit late for an opinion on that as it happen nearly 100 years ago, but my main point would be the same.

In post-conflict, you are going to have members who played an instrumental part in violence and bloodshed. As we have seen in the North, families of the killed had to swallow their emotion, hate and shock, as murderers, bombers and terrorists were released under the Good Friday Agreement. This occurred on all sides.

This is one of the most noble mass consensuses ever achieved and a testament to the people of the North, to give a mandate which would allow the killers of their families and friends back on to the street, in a bid for peace. Perhaps political parties should have followed the same noble idea and respect by retiring all associated with such violence from public life in a bid to reduce any suffering from seeing murderers and terrorists in a paid political role rather then continually shoving their faces into political life.

You make think the same but society as a whole would appear to hold the men and women of the War of Independence in a high esteem. Many of these served in parliament before and after the war. Some have streets and infrastructure named after them. Whether it happened 100 years ago or not, it is still the same. Why should Dessie Ellis not sit in Dail Eireann?

spikethedog

EURATS wrote: »

Very true..and now we have the news that the loyalists are heading for Leinster House on the 12th January at 12 noon to demand the tri-colour(symbol of peace between the orange and republican traditions) be removed. Looks like a happy new year alright!!!

Enda will probably welcome them with open arms.
They're not running for election down here anytime soon, are they?
Wonder will Gilmore ask them how many bodies they have buried on the island?

EURATS

spikethedog wrote: »

Enda will probably welcome them with open arms.
They're not running for election down here anytime soon, are they?
Wonder will Gilmore ask them how many bodies they have buried on the island?

God knows what Enda will do. Capable of anything..might even give them an autographed tri-colour..with his face on it.

Gilmore will prob ask them if they want to join up with him against SF. Pathetic two faced individual.

Godge

howiya wrote: »

You make think the same but society as a whole would appear to hold the men and women of the War of Independence in a high esteem. Many of these served in parliament before and after the war. Some have streets and infrastructure named after them. Whether it happened 100 years ago or not, it is still the same. Why should Dessie Ellis not sit in Dail Eireann?

Simply put, that was then, this is now.

If we wish to hold politicians to higher standards in 2013 than in 1921, then that is progress and is to be welcomed.

Using the 1920s and the 1930s when nearly every state was under threat for its very existence is not the same situation as today. Education levels are higher now and most people (the 90% who do not vote for them) see SF for what they are.

howiya

Godge wrote: »

Simply put, that was then, this is now.

So his past must be irrelevant also then if we are to discount history

Godge

howiya wrote: »

So his past must be irrelevant also then if we are to discount history

No, that is not the point I was making, thanks for your attempt to twist it.

What I said was that you cannot just expect the standards of the 1920s to be applied today when we have a more modern educated questioning society.

Therefore while it might have been acceptable to accept a politician with a murky violent past in the 1920s, it is not acceptable to the vast majority of Irish people (90% in the last general election) today.

Now that most of us have grown up, it is right that we ask our politicians to account for themselves and if they have been involved in murders, bombings, killings and bank robberies in the last 20 years that they admit it and come clean about it and stop hiding behind platitudes.

howiya

Godge wrote: »

No, that is not the point I was making, thanks for your attempt to twist it.

What I said was that you cannot just expect the standards of the 1920s to be applied today when we have a more modern educated questioning society.

Therefore while it might have been acceptable to accept a politician with a murky violent past in the 1920s, it is not acceptable to the vast majority of Irish people (90% in the last general election) today.

Now that most of us have grown up, it is right that we ask our politicians to account for themselves and if they have been involved in murders, bombings, killings and bank robberies in the last 20 years that they admit it and come clean about it and stop hiding behind platitudes.

I'm not a SF supporter or member so I don't really care that 90% of the country didn't vote for them in the general election. I didn't vote for them either. I did vote for Martin McGuinness in the presidential election.

What irks me is the agenda that is setting out to demonise those who were involved in the armed struggle and the fake outrage that accompanies it.

With regard to being a more questioning society, how far should we go? Should we question our past? Should we remove the names of Cathal Brugha, Michael Collins, Eamonn Ceannt, Padraig Pearse et al from our street signs, infrastructure etc? Should we start calling these men terrorists?

RobFowl

howiya wrote: »

What irks me is the agenda that is setting out to demonise those who were involved in the armed struggle and the fake outrage that accompanies it.

There is nothing fake about the outrage.

Dub.

RobFowl wrote: »

There is nothing fake about the outrage.

And i should hope so. How could any democracy stand by while a dodgy foreign secret service publishes unsubstantiated garbage about one of its elected representatives?

Putting up with such nonsense would make us no better than any banana Republic.:mad:

Rascasse

Dub. wrote: »

And i should hope so. How could any democracy stand by while a dodgy foreign secret service publishes unsubstantiated garbage about one of its elected representatives?

Putting up with such nonsense would make us no better than any banana Republic.:mad:

Firstly, not a secret service, if it were it wouldn't have been released.

Secondly, let us not forget he was tried and convicted of explosives offences in Ireland. The typical lack of critical thinking of the usual IRA/SF apologists would make you believe that he was not charged nor convicted of anything relating to what the telex alleges, but that simply isn't true.

The evidence suggests that a device that Ellis made was used in the assassination of Mountbatten which also killed an Irish child, Paul Maxwell. If killing septuagenarians as their nephew married a Queen is your thing, then fair enough. But killing a child is somewhat unpalatable to most people and he cannot expect it to go unchallenged.

Dub.

Rascasse wrote: »

Firstly, not a secret service, if it were it wouldn't have been released.

Secondly, let us not forget he was tried and convicted of explosives offences in Ireland. The typical lack of critical thinking of the usual IRA/SF apologists would make you believe that he was not charged nor convicted of anything relating to what the telex alleges, but that simply isn't true.

The evidence suggests that a device that Ellis made was used in the assassination of Mountbatten which also killed an Irish child, Paul Maxwell. If killing septuagenarians as their nephew married a Queen is your thing, then fair enough. But killing a child is somewhat unpalatable to most people and he cannot expect it to go unchallenged.

So you are saying Dessie Ellis killed that child? That is a big statement to make based on the thirty year old gossip of the people behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Would you stand by that statement in a court of law, or are you merely `putting it out there` as a possibility?

oscarBravo

Dub. wrote: »

You either believe in the right to fight a foreign occupying army or you don`t.

...or you don't accept that Ireland was/is occupied any more than Wales is.

Rascasse

Dub. wrote: »

So you are saying Dessie Ellis killed that child? That is a big statement to make based on the thirty year old gossip of the people behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Would you stand by that statement in a court of law, or are you merely `putting it out there` as a possibility?

No I didn't say that. Read it again. He was convicted, in Ireland, of possession of radio controlled bomb detonators. As a profession he was a TV engineer (so knows a thing or two about electronics and radio receivers). And, it was widely reported at the time that he was wanted for Mountbattens assassination (e.g. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AY1VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uz8NAAAAIBAJ&pg=2933,55865&dq).

I'm not saying he pressed the button or made the bomb. I'm saying the evidence suggests he made the detonator the button triggered.

Dub.

oscarBravo wrote: »

...or you don't accept that Ireland was/is occupied any more than Wales is.

Believe what you want. There were plenty of French people who agreed with the occupation and believed that the Resistance were terrorists.

We all get to make our own mind up on these things.

I would agree about Wales btw. That place has never been a country, and never will.