Dessie Ellis - The Sinn Fein TD who is linked to 50 murders

Rascasse

And, I'll make the point again, this is a secret message from one British official to another that he would never have expected to have been made public (nor would have he have expected Ellis to become a TD). So the "50 murders" claim can reasonably be believed as there are no grounds for him to lie.

spikethedog

mathepac wrote: »

Why the need in this thread to start typed sentences with what sounds like a speech-impediment? Is this de rigeur in order to be seen as being "home with the Downeys" or somesuch or has it developed from too much reading of the Beano / Dandy / Sindo / Sun / Star / Mail?

A FO / HO lie communicated to the State Department, repeated on a State Department telex back to the FO isn't evidence of anything and doesn't make the original lie true. It's one of the oldest ploys in smear campaigns to protect the press and to mimic attribution and validity in a dirty tricks campaign.

Why would such a telex be released? FOI request? If so why that specific SF TD as the target, why not do down Marty or Gerry? Why now?

It's all very odd with Inda the Idiot and the like clinging to power by their finger-nails hoping for th' oul' pinsin.

They're using that and a suicide to deflect from the real issues at hand.
Sad, but that's FG for you.

dvpower

mathepac wrote: »

Why would such a telex be released? FOI request? If so why that specific SF TD as the target, why not do down Marty or Gerry? Why now?

You should probably read the newspaper article linked in the OP for the background information.

The Waltzing Consumer

spikethedog wrote: »

They're using that and a suicide to deflect from the real issues at hand.

Such as??

dvpower

spikethedog wrote: »

They're using that and a suicide to deflect from the real issues at hand.
Sad, but that's FG for you.

How are you linking the release of these British state papers to FG?

murphaph

votecounts wrote: »

So we are to beleive some british government scumbag( using this word as its been used here with no penalty) about forensics. Maybe Mr Ellis was playing cards as was the case with the guildford four and we all know how that worked out, short memories.Being irish means you're guilty.

I believe they committed those murders in the 70's (G4 & B6). Seems every IRA bomb maker is also a keen cards player :rolleyes:

guinnessdrinker

I just wonder how much faith should we have in British "intelligence".

dvpower

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I just wonder how much faith should we have in British "intelligence".

We certainly wouldn't want to rely on it fully. Maybe we could just ask Dessie Ellis to comment on it.

Indo wrote:

Irish Independent (II): "We're doing a story because, as you're probably
aware, there's a 30-year rule for state papers. The British state papers from
1982 have been released and they talk about the time you were arrested in the
United States. The British embassy in Washington were trying to have you
extradited. They were claiming that you were involved in 50 murders. I just
wanted to give you an opportunity to comment before the story runs."


Dessie Ellis (DE): "Well, I have no comment on it, you know. I don't know
what they're talking about anyhow."


II: "I know you've spoken before about your time in the IRA. Would 50 murders
be an exaggeration?"

DE: "I don't know what they're on about so I'm not going to comment on it,
you know."

II: "Do you know if any of the bombs you made resulted in deaths?"

DE: "I'm not going to comment on anything in relation to anything that people
are speculating on, okay?"

So much for that.

mathepac

dvpower wrote: »

You should probably read the newspaper article linked in the OP for the background information.

Thanks but I have no confidence in the Sindo to enlighten me. They'll print any auld guff that'll generate a sale. It's a shame that my skepticism (cynicism?) has reached such depths, but it's based on first hand experiences a number of years ago with the yellow press, the Sindo and old Sunday Business Post in particular and with the disturbance and heart-break caused by a camera crew at a funeral a couple of years ago. Vile, heartless creatures with no consciences.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

We certainly wouldn't want to rely on it fully. Maybe we could just ask Dessie Ellis to comment on it.



So much for that.

Dessie Ellis doesn't want to respond or comment on a document released by a foreign govt, about something that allegedly happened thirty years ago, is that right?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Dessie Ellis doesn't want to respond or comment on a document released by a foreign govt, about something that allegedly happened thirty years ago, is that right?

Yep. A serving TD is trying to simply ignore information that he his linked to mass murder.
How mad is that!!!

dvpower

mathepac wrote: »

Thanks but I have no confidence in the Sindo to enlighten me. They'll print any auld guff that'll generate a sale.

You don't appear to have read the facts of the story from any news source. You might not trust the Indo, but it has been fairly widely reported now by other outlets.

mathepac wrote: »

Why would such a telex be released? FOI request? If so why that specific SF TD as the target, why not do down Marty or Gerry? Why now?

Its a bit much to ask people on this thread to provide you with the basic information. If you don't believe the Indo, how are you to believe anonymous posters on the internet?

Offy

Its all a load of nonsense really, if I were to allege that Enda Kenny is linked to at least 50 murders according to my records would anyone care? No. Why? If there was any truth in it Enda Kenny would be arrested and charged. Period. The IRA killed British people. The British killed Irish people. Two facts. How does knowing that change anything? So the British government release some old documents claiming this Dessie Ellis chap is linked to 50 murders but they cant prove it, if they could they would have him locked up and does anyone believe for just one second Enda Kenny would do anything to stop it? Not a chance in hell. When has Enda Kenny ever stood up for any Irish man or woman?
How many people in this discussion have actually lived in Northern Ireland? How many people in this discussion have first hand knowledge? How many are arguing points based on information that is 30 years old and un-provable in a court? You might as well argue as to whether or not Jesus actually parted the Red Sea!

howiya

mathepac wrote: »

Why the need in this thread to start typed sentences with what sounds like a speech-impediment? Is this de rigeur in order to be seen as being "home with the Downeys" or somesuch or has it developed from too much reading of the Beano / Dandy / Sindo / Sun / Star / Mail?

Maybe they're following on from the indo's transcript of their conversation with Dessie yesterday. Insert "you know" after every sentence...

More seriously I'm fed up with the indo and members of the governing parties in the state trying to criminalise the armed struggle. Yes things were done in the past. There is a peace process now. Lets move on. How long before the Indo call the men and women of 1916 criminals?

spikethedog

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Such as??

Such as the fact that the country is on its knees, there's 450,000 unemployed, we have mass emigration, our banks are bankrupt (financially and morally) etc etc.
Some 30 year old document from an unnamed british source is hardly relevant to the state the country is in now, is it?
So what if Dessie Ellis was in the IRA, made bombs that killed people and all that, everyone knows that, it's hardly a surprise is it?
The shock/horror response from the FGbots here is a joke.
Nothing like a bit of deflecting from the issues that need to be addressed.

dvpower

spikethedog wrote: »

Such as the fact that the country is on its knees, there's 450,000 unemployed, we have mass emigration, our banks are bankrupt (financially and morally) etc etc.
Some 30 year old document from an unnamed british source is hardly relevant to the state the country is in now, is it?
So what if Dessie Ellis was in the IRA, made bombs that killed people and all that, everyone knows that, it's hardly a surprise is it?
The shock/horror response from the FGbots here is a joke.
Nothing like a bit of deflecting from the issues that need to be addressed.

It is you that is attempting to use the financial crisis to divert from this topic. No one is forcing you to open this thread, clearly not related to the financial crisis.
Would you want us to shut down discussion on every other topic until our financial problems are solved? Ridiculous.

Chips Lovell

howiya wrote: »

More seriously I'm fed up with the indo and members of the governing parties in the state trying to criminalise the armed struggle.

Trying to criminalise? Hello? It was and still is criminalised.

The Waltzing Consumer

dvpower wrote: »

It is you that is attempting to use the financial crisis to divert from this topic. No one is forcing you to open this thread, clearly not related to the financial crisis.
Would you want us to shut down discussion on every other topic until our financial problems are solved? Ridiculous.

Only when it suits them.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pat-finucane-report-gery-adams-715017-Dec2012/

So this historical murder should be investigated...but when it is one of their own TDs, let the past be the past.

spikethedog

dvpower wrote: »

It is you that is attempting to use the financial crisis to divert from this topic. No one is forcing you to open this thread, clearly not related to the financial crisis.
Would you want us to shut down discussion on every other topic until our financial problems are solved? Ridiculous.

Meh, I'll leave you at it.
If it makes FGer's like yourself happy to spend your time attacking Sinn Fein in order to deflect from the real issues at hand, knock yourself out.
Ridiculous party with ridiculous supporters.
Roll on to the next election.

spikethedog

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Only when it suits them.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pat-finucane-report-gery-adams-715017-Dec2012/

So this historical murder should be investigated...but when it is one of their own TDs, let the past be the past.

Sad post.
Always throwing the names of dead people around to use to score points.
Is that official FG policy?

spikethedog

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Only when it suits them.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pat-finucane-report-gery-adams-715017-Dec2012/

So this historical murder should be investigated...but when it is one of their own TDs, let the past be the past.

Just on that, he was investigated in Britian wasn't he? brought to trial, wasn't he? found not guilty, wasn't he?
Do you want to set up a boards.ie kangaroo court now?

mathepac

spikethedog wrote: »

... Some 30 year old document from an unnamed british source is hardly relevant to the state the country is in now, is it? ...

We could of course just go back another 45 years and mention this ...

"The Spanish Civil War

O'Duffy re-emerged onto the national stage in 1936 to form a seven hundred strong Irish Brigade to fight for Franco in Spain's Civil War, this effort was vigorously supported by the Catholic Church. The Dean of Cashel endorsed it stating that:

"The Irish Brigade have gone to fight the battle of Christianity against Communism. There are tremendous difficulties facing the men under O'Duffy and only heroes can fight such a battle" (5)

The aforementioned Saor Eire had by contrast been condemned by the Bishops as:

"a sinful and irreligious organisation" (6)

They pressurised the Government into outlawing it.
Cardinal Macrory Archbishop of Armagh and primate of all-Ireland, while addressing seven thousand pilgrims in Drogheda at the shrine of blessed Oliver Plunket - a preserved, severed head with reputed magical powers, nailed his colours to the mast and expressed his support for Franco:

"There is no room any longer for any doubt as to the issues at stake in the Spanish conflict. It is not a question of the Army against the people, nor the Army plus the aristocracy and the Church against Labour. Not at all. It is a question of whether Spain will remain as she has been for so long, a Christian and Catholic land or a Bolshevist and anti-God one" (7)

Newspapers and in particular the Irish Independent took a pro-Franco line:

"It is well that the line of demarcation in Spain should be made clear. On the one side is a so-called Government which has abandoned all the functions of government to a Communist Junta bent upon the destruction of personal liberty, the eradication of religion, the burning of churches, and the wholesale slaughter of clergy. On the other side are the Patriot Army gladly risking liberty, property, and life, in defense of their faith-Fighting the same fight that our Irish ancestors fought for centuries for the same cause" (8)

...

The main body organising support for Franco was the Irish Christian Front ( I.C.F.) a broad based pressure group which , in the early months of the civil war , organised massive demonstrations and had , initially at least , more widespread support than the Blueshirts . The Front's founders were Patrick Belton , who was formerly a T.D. for both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael as well as being an ex-Blueshirt , and Alexander McCabe , formerly elected for both Sinn Fein (pre-1922) and Cumann Na nGaedheal and later to be a member of Eoin O'Duffy's pro-nazi People's National Party. At one I.C.F. rally in Cork in September 1936 40,000 people assembled to hear Monsignor Patrick Sexton , dean of Cork , blame the civil war on "a gang of murderous Jews in Moscow" (9) while beside him stood Alfred O'Rahilly , the future president of the University College of Cork and Douglas Hyde , the future president of the Irish state who currently has his head on the £50 note. ..."

Source: - http://struggle.ws/freeearth/fe2_ireland.html

I'm glad Inda, his colleagues and fellow-travellers in government have no skeletons hiding in their closets.

The Waltzing Consumer

spikethedog wrote: »

Meh, I'll leave you at it.
If it makes FGer's like yourself happy to spend your time attacking Sinn Fein in order to deflect from the real issues at hand, knock yourself out.
Ridiculous party with ridiculous supporters.
Roll on to the next election.

I would call ridiculous any person who is blindly supportive of a politician and can see no wrong.

What have the supporters of the following got in common?

Bertie
Lowry
Cooper Flynn
Mick Wallace
Sean Quinn
Dessie Ellis

Blind devotion, excuses, tales of conspiracy and not one inch of remorse

Sully

spikethedog wrote: »

Sad post.
Always throwing the names of dead people around to use to score points.
Is that official FG policy?

Now THAT'S a sad post.

If you can't take the heat or reply constructively but instead need to go down the road of deflecting towards a persons, alleged I assume, political affiliations and throw in a completely daft "Is that official FG policy?" remark, than maybe you shouldn't be engaging in this debate at all?

Its most irritating to see a poster resort to silly remarks that have nothing to do with the topic at all and when someone is arguing strongly against another political party, its automatically assumed they are a member of one of the government party's.

Welcome to the world. People have differences of opinions. This is a debate, the whole purpose is people will engage and discuss differences of opinions. Not everybody will agree with everybody, otherwise it would be very boring. Those who disagree and don't support Sinn Fein may not always be a government supporter either.

dvpower

spikethedog wrote: »

Just on that, he was investigated in Britian wasn't he? brought to trial, wasn't he? found not guilty, wasn't he?
Do you want to set up a boards.ie kangaroo court now?

He wasn't brought to trial on these 50 murders

The Waltzing Consumer

spikethedog wrote: »

Just on that, he was investigated in Britian wasn't he? brought to trial, wasn't he? found not guilty, wasn't he?
Do you want to set up a boards.ie kangaroo court now?

No, it is simply the basic point that we cannot pick and choose crimes that should be investigated based on our own agenda. SF cannot say leave the past as the past for 50 murders and then flip-flop on other murders and want full historical investigations.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

It is you that is attempting to use the financial crisis to divert from this topic. No one is forcing you to open this thread, clearly not related to the financial crisis.
Would you want us to shut down discussion on every other topic until our financial problems are solved? Ridiculous.

But even when faced with topics related to the financial crisis, Enda Kenny/Gilmore reply with the stock answers all the time to divert the topic.

Jean McConville, northern bank, blood on hands blah blah blah.

Deputy Gerry Adams: It is more in sadness than in anger that I must say the Taoiseach just does not get it. The budget is all about the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party. It tells us everything we need to know about the two parties. There is huge anger among the people about the cuts and the new taxes the Government has introduced to target citizens who are unable to pay. It is not that they will not pay, they cannot pay. I was at a public meeting last night in Dundalk when I saw raw emotion and despair. I heard a mother say women had a sense of failure in having to admit they could not feed their children. That is what she said. People are deeply incensed by the cuts to child benefit and the back to school allowance, by the taxing of maternity benefit, the increase in PRSI, increased prescription charges and the tax on the family home. However, what has really incensed them, although they are not affected, are the cuts to the respite care grant, through which the Government is picking the pockets of 77,000 citizens. The respite care grant is hugely important to the families involved. Leaving aside the ethics, cutting the grant is bad economics. If the State had to pay for the care the families concerned provide 24 hours a day, seven days a week, it would not be able to bear the cost. If the Taoiseach does not get this - sitting in a row of millionaires - it is because he is taking home €200,000 a year. Therefore, he does not understand what it is like to have to get kids back to school.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: We do not have a house in the North and the South.

An Ceann Comhairle: Please allow the Deputy to continue.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Those listening to the Taoiseach will not be encouraged that he has a sense of their plight. Ministers take home over €3,000 a week. The Government has broken the cap for special advisers and refuses to consider alternatives. If I was to bring in the woman who spoke last night and she was to plead with the Taoiseach to reverse this cut, would he do it? On her behalf, I ask him to reverse it. There are alternative ways of raising the money. Will the Taoiseach consider reversing this dreadful cut which will affect people who just cannot afford to take it?

The Taoiseach: I was in Phibsboro last Saturday with Deputy Paschal Donohoe when I met some of Deputy Gerry Adams's supporters on the street who were handing out leaflets attacking the Labour Party, but these supporters were not able to answer any question about any of the issues mentioned on the leaflets regarding the fantasy economics in which Sinn Féin was engaged. The Deputy has made a disgraceful comment about Ministers. I assure him that none of them was funded by the assets of Northern Bank.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Here we go again.

The Taoiseach: Deputy Gerry Adams knows very little about taxation matters if he makes a comment like the one he has just made. However, I will not go back over history to hear the Deputy expound on many elements of the truth. It ill behoves him to talk about the raw emotion of women, in particular, having regard to some of the incidents that occurred in his lifetime and with which he was associated, which resulted not in just raw emotion but which had tragic consequences. I will not take that from the Deputy and it is beneath him to carry on like that.

I don't think its acceptable that our Taoiseach and Tánaiste constantly refuse to answer our elected TD's, and use slurs and innuendos to park questions continuously.

spikethedog

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I would call ridiculous any person who is blindly supportive of a politician and can see no wrong.

What have the supporters of the following got in common?

Bertie
Lowry
Cooper Flynn
Mick Wallace
Sean Quinn
Dessie Ellis

Blind devotion, excuses, tales of conspiracy and not one inch of remorse

Your right there.
I don't see the same venom directed at the first 5 though....

The Waltzing Consumer

Ghandee wrote: »

But even when faced with topics related to the financial crisis, Enda Kenny/Gilmore reply with the stock answers all the time to divert the topic.

Jean McConville, northern bank, blood on hands blah blah blah.

I don't think its acceptable that our Taoiseach and Tánaiste constantly refuse to answer our elected TD's, and use slurs and innuendos to park questions continuously.

I would agree completely. That is wrong to deflect from direct questions. I would expect each party to be accountable and answerable to the people. So I would definitely think Kenny/Gilmore need to answer such questions, likewise Ellis should answer such questions about his role in this linking to 50 murders.

spikethedog

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

No, it is simply the basic point that we cannot pick and choose crimes that should be investigated based on our own agenda. SF cannot say leave the past as the past for 50 murders and then flip-flop on other murders and want full historical investigations.

Do you respect the decision of the British courts then?
I mean, surely if they had the evidence that he was involved in 50 murders he would still be rotting in a British jail somewhere.

freddiek

any chance our friends the Brits using their intelligence to reveal the bombers of Dublin (72/74), Monaghan, Dundalk etc etc?

still waiting

The Waltzing Consumer

spikethedog wrote: »

Your right there.
I don't see the same venom directed at the first 5 though....

I can assure you for each of these people, there are huge amounts of threads that have existed discussing each.

mathepac

dvpower wrote: »

You don't appear to have read the facts of the story from any news source. You might not trust the Indo, but it has been fairly widely reported now by other outlets. ...

I find they all have agendas and spins on stories. Sad to say I find it hard to avoid suspecting spin and ruse when a story like this suddenly jumps into the headlines.

dvpower wrote: »

... Its a bit much to ask people on this thread to provide you with the basic information. If you don't believe the Indo, how are you to believe anonymous posters on the internet?

Sorry I genuinely meant the questions to be rhetorical as I find the timing and other aspects of this report / allegation to be too bizarre for words.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

But even when faced with topics related to the financial crisis, Enda Kenny/Gilmore reply with the stock answers all the time to divert the topic.

And they get jumped on by SF supporters for that, some of the same supporters who now want to divert this thread onto the financial crisis, the Spanish Civil War, Nelson Mandela and everything in between.

Sully

Ghandee wrote: »

But even when faced with topics related to the financial crisis, Enda Kenny/Gilmore reply with the stock answers all the time to divert the topic.

Jean McConville, northern bank, blood on hands blah blah blah.




I don't think its acceptable that our Taoiseach and Tánaiste constantly refuse to answer our elected TD's, and use slurs and innuendos to park questions continuously.

I'm a FG Supporter and I disagree with it. Its fine to a point but lately its gone beyond a joke.

spikethedog

dvpower wrote: »

And they get jumped on by SF supporters for that, some of the same supporters who now want to divert this thread onto the financial crisis, the Spanish Civil War, Nelson Mandela and everything in between.

Pointing out the cynical way this government goes about it's business makes someone a SF supporter now, does it?
The paranoia is so funny to see.

spikethedog

Sully wrote: »

I'm a FG Supporter and I disagree with it. Its fine to a point but lately its gone beyond a joke.

And you called my post 'sad' for pointing that out?

storker

I think there are two issues here. First, this is a self-inflicted wound by SF. They shouldn't be putting people forward for election who are carrying this kind of baggage. Surely there are some Sinn Fein candidates who weren't involved with any murders, bomb explosions, or bank robberies? (Alright, I'm guessing here.) If SF only put "clean" people into the Dail, then they would be better placed to face down this kind of stuff.

The second problem is Kenny and Gilmore's ridiculous, tedious, and constant referring to IRA history instead of giving a proper response to questions that are of concern to the people of this country. They might imagine that they're striking a blow against SF, but they're simultaneously giving two fingers to those members of the public who would like those questions to be answered. All they're achieving at the moment is convincing people that they're trying to avoid admitting that they don't have satisfactory answers at all.

Like it or not, SF deputies were put into the Dail, elected by the people. That means they're entitled to ask questions...and the people are entitled to get answers instead of innuendo. If SF ask about, say, health policy, then that's what the answer should be about, instead of the insulting* comic-opera, schoolyard bullsh1t we're getting at the moment.

I know that's not 100% on topic, so as to the gentleman in question, SF should have seen this coming and not put him forward for election in the first place. Although he is innocent until proven guilty, there is a question mark over him. If SF want to be the voice of probity and to position themselves as an opposition that wants to call foul on government mischief, then the rule about Caesar's wife surely applies.

Stork

*And I mean insulting to the people, not SF.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

And they get jumped on by SF supporters for that, some of the same supporters who now want to divert this thread onto the financial crisis, the Spanish Civil War, Nelson Mandela and everything in between.

But with all due respect, everything mentioned above has relevance to this thread.

Financial crisis, when asked a direct question relating to it, the current govt deflect by implying SF are murderers/terrorist/bank robbers.

Spanish civil war, just like the armed struggle in the six counties, FG have skeletons in their cupboard also, supporting nazis is something not to be proud of IMO.

Nelson Mandela, a man whose turned his back on violence and traded it for a political struggle, generally respected around the world now, why the alienation of SF TD's who've chosen the same path?


FG are certainly not whiter than white, we should all remember that.

dvpower

spikethedog wrote: »

They're using that and a suicide to deflect from the real issues at hand.

Sad, but that's FG for you.

How are you linking the release of these British state papers to FG?

spikethedog

dvpower wrote: »

How are you linking the release of these British state papers to FG?

Charlie Flanagan is using them to throw up another smokescreen.
It's FG who are making all the noise about them.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

How are you linking the release of these British state papers to FG?

You are aware of Charlie Flanagan I presume?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

But with all due respect, everything mentioned above has relevance to this thread.

Financial crisis, when asked a direct question relating to it, the current govt deflect by implying SF are murderers/terrorist/bank robbers.

Spanish civil war, just like the armed struggle in the six counties, FG have skeletons in their cupboard also, supporting nazis is something not to be proud of IMO.

Nelson Mandela, a man whose turned his back on violence and traded it for a political struggle, generally respected around the world now, why the alienation of SF TD's who've chosen the same path?


FG are certainly not whiter than white, we should all remember that.

Dessie Ellis being implicated in 50 murders over thirty years ago isn't related to any of these things.

Less than an hour ago, on this thread, you raised the issue of the Government using IRA crimes to deflect from the financial crisis and now you are throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the mix.

I'm tempted to say you are a master of deflection, but actually you're quite crap at it.

spikethedog

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQqQIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breakingnews.ie%2Fireland%2Fellis-hits-back-at-flanagan-statement-579312.html&ei=M-neUPutDMKWhQf34IDIBA&usg=AFQjCNF1bvK76MZmBrO0pqLKrKnUr5yNrg&sig2=8zaZ6BO4k35FBakVZEl1lA

dvpower

spikethedog wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan is using them to throw up another smokescreen.
It's FG who are making all the noise about them.

Charlie Flanagan didn't release these papers and they've now been reported widely and internationally.

Its you that's throwing up a smokescreen, can you not deal with the substance?

mathepac

dvpower wrote: »

And they get jumped on by SF supporters for that, some of the same supporters who now want to divert this thread onto the financial crisis, the Spanish Civil War, Nelson Mandela and everything in between.

I sincerely hope you don't include me as a SF supporter in your inaccurate, sweeping generalisation above as I'm not and never was, unlike the Da RIP.

Difficult as you might find it, being anti-FG or anti-Government does not make a person pro-SF or pro-IRA, there are (a few ) other options. Your apology for your stupidly generalised post is anticipated.

It's surely possible in this country of all places to be suspicious of stories like this one rising from the past? Far from diverting the discussion, I'm simply reminding posters that almost all political parties in this country have had associations with violence in some form or another at some time in their past. Detractors need to remember that when they point the finger of accusation at a person, three of their fingers point back at themselves.

It's a pity you didn't think to ask me was I a SF head before hurling stupid uniformed assumptions about the place.

Chips Lovell

Excellent post up there by storker.

There's a few issues here. One is that Sinn Fein are asking us to leave the past behind, but at the same time putting convicted bomb makers and gun runners up for election. How's that square? Why not remove the people with a terrorist past from the party, or at the very least have them retire from public roles?

The other is using Sinn Fein's past as a means of deflection, which isn't really on. I think the point Kenny was trying to make was that you can't accuse someone of criminality in the Dail while at the same time having people with a criminal past sitting on your own benches. That's fair enough but he did it so cackhandedly that everyone just saw him trying to dodge a question by raising McConville. McDonald wasn't entirely blameless either and if she'd toned it down a bit she wouldn't have given him a in. But it worked out well for her in the end given Kenny's meltdown.

spikethedog

dvpower wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan didn't release these papers and they've now been reported widely and internationally.

Its you that's throwing up a smokescreen, can you not deal with the substance?

Ok, once more.
Dessie Ellis was in the PIRA.
Dessie Ellis made bombs for the PIRA.
PIRA bombs killed people.
Dessie Ellis was extradited from the USA to the UK and stood trial.
Dessie Ellis was found not guilty.
Dessie Ellis then did time here for making bombs.
Thankfully a ceasefire was called and the GFA came into being.
Ex PIRA members democratically ran for office.
Dessie Ellis gets elected to dail eireann.

Now, stop trying to drag my country back into the past.
Finished with this thread now, throw up whatever silly comment you like about me, I'm done.

spikethedog

mathepac wrote: »

I sincerely hope you don't include me as a SF supporter in your inaccurate, sweeping generalisation above as I'm not and never was, unlike the Da RIP.

Difficult as you might find it, being anti-FG or anti-Government does not make a person pro-SF or pro-IRA, there are (a few ) other options. Your apology for your stupidly generalised post is anticipated.

It's surely possible in this country of all places to be suspicious of stories like this one rising from the past? Far from diverting the discussion, I'm simply reminding posters that almost all political parties in this country have had associations with violence in some form or another at some time in their past. Detractors need to remember that when they point the finger of accusation at a person, three of their fingers point back at themselves.

It's a pity you didn't think to ask me was I a SF head before hurling stupid uniformed assumptions about the place.

I got the same, your not special.;) If your anti-government, your branded a SF supporter. That's why I'm out.

dvpower

mathepac wrote: »

I sincerely hope you don't include me as a SF supporter in your inaccurate, sweeping generalisation above as I'm not and never was, unlike the Da RIP.

Difficult as you might find it, being anti-FG or anti-Government does not make a person pro-SF or pro-IRA, there are (a few ) other options. Your apology for your stupidly generalised post is anticipated.

It's surely possible in this country of all places to be suspicious of stories like this one rising from the past? Far from diverting the discussion, I'm simply reminding posters that almost all political parties in this country have had associations with violence in some form or another at some time in their past. Detractors need to remember that when they point the finger of accusation at a person, three of their fingers point back at themselves.

It's a pity you didn't think to ask me was I a SF head before hurling stupid uniformed assumptions about the place.

What the he'll are you on about? I didn't refer to you at all
Stupid assumption.