Can shops enforce a minimum spend on a Visa Debit Card?

CuFaoil

Hi,

Just want to get some clarity on this, do merchants pay a flat fee per transaction irrespective of the amount involved? Does this differ for a Visa Debit Card versus say a regular Visa/Mastercard Credit Card? Is this why they set a minimum transaction amount?

The reason I ask, I stopped into a shop and was buying milk, and a lucozade, I had no cash. I ended up leaving the stuff, as they refused to a Visa Debit Card for a transaction which was < €5. I've been in shops where this has been accepted, and lived abroad where no such minimums are enforced. If it's entirely discretionary that's fine, but is there any law, etc. which says they are allowed to do this?

Just want to know.

Thanks,
Harry

im invisible

It is entirely discretionary, they can do what they like,
tho i would like to know what charges are incurred

CuFaoil

im invisible wrote: »

It is entirely discretionary, they can do what they like,
tho i would like to know what charges are incurred

No worries, it's funny, the shop across the road from where I work has a similar policy, and also, they do not do cash out on Friday's. I found this all out in a couple of days, I thought they were just live trolling me.

Also, thanks for responding.

dahamsta

CuFaoil wrote: »

Hi, Just want to get some clarity on this, do merchants pay a flat fee per transaction irrespective of the amount involved?

They did for Laser, they don't for Visa credit and I'm almost certain they don't for Visa debit. Could be just an ill-informed vendor. I had this problem with Topaz on the Centre Park Road in Cork last year, they've lost a lot of petrol and shop business since.

Bank of Ireland: Laura

Hi CuFaoil.

What im invisible has posted is indeed correct.
Merchants are charged when a card is used for payment. It is entirely at their own discretion whether they decide to pass this charge on to their customers. Unfortunately this is not something we have any control over.

Thanks for posting.
Laura

im invisible

Is it a flat rate, or a percentage, or a minimum of x euro, and then a percentage charge (up to a max of y euro?)?

Bank of Ireland: Pat

Hi im invisible,

Thanks for your post. As the charge is agreed directly between the retailer and Visa, we wouldn't be able to comment further on how the charge is broken down. Apologies that we can't supply you with the information that you're looking for.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks
Pat

im invisible

i was thinking the same all right,

CuFaoil

Bank of Ireland: Laura wrote: »

Hi CuFaoil.

What im invisible has posted is indeed correct.
Merchants are charged when a card is used for payment. It is entirely at their own discretion whether they decide to pass this charge on to their customers. Unfortunately this is not something we have any control over.

Thanks for posting.
Laura

Thanks Laura,

Grand, just wanted clarification. I understand a fee applies, I'd prefer that merchants indicated a minimum amount required prior to starting a transaction, preferably on the till or behind the counter somewhere. I understand they are well within their rights to do this, fine. It would make it a little less uncomfortable for the consumer to know his/her rights beforehand, without getting into a disagreement. As dahamsta has said, this is probably happening a lot of places. We tend to have a bit of an over-reliance on cash in this country sometimes. I have no problem having the fee passed onto myself, as it is my choice to use the card.

The same with ATM transaction fees. I used to pay a monthly fee of NZ$5 for unlimited ATM transactions (at that particular Bank's ATMs). I would happily pay BoI the same for Visa Debit Transactions in shops so Merchants didn't apply these fees.

Are you aware of the exact legislation around this issue? If so, could you point me too it, my searching doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere, and I couldn't find it on the Citizen's Information website. Most likely have the terminology wrong though.

Thanks,
CuFaoil

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi CuFaoil,

We would not be aware where this legislation is located, as it is between the retailer and Visa. You may be best to contact Visa directly to dicuss this further.

Thanks
Linda

dahamsta

Typical non-answers from BOI.

ScouseMouse

Ok folks.

As a small retailer, I am charged a flat fee by the bank for a laser card.

Then I am charged again when the machine batches to the bank.

Then I am charged rental for the machine itself.

With the new Visa Debit, I am charged a flat percentage, so the bigger the customer spend, the bigger the charge.


Then I am charged the other fees.

The banks dont tell you this and just give the usual "its between you and the retailer" blah blah.

dahamsta

superscouse wrote: »

With the new Visa Debit, I am charged a flat percentage, so the bigger the customer spend, the bigger the charge.

That was what I've been given to understand assumed. Why BOI couldn't just say so is beyond me, it's common knowledge. Usual bull from them.

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi dahamsta,

We cannot comment on charges from another source that we have no control over. Apologies on this occasion that we were unable to provide the information that you requested but as advised, it is between the retailers and Visa directly. We do not have access to these charges.

If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know and we will do our best to answer your query.

Thanks
Linda

dahamsta

Words can't even express the level of Wrong in that reply. It's out the other side of Wrong and into the realms of Oh Dear Jesus.

Seriously, your information is wrong. I don't know whether you have the wrong information, you're making it up as you go along, or you've been told to give this information, but for the love of god stop now before you dig an even deeper hole f,or yourself with this nonsense. Because it really is just that: Nonsense.

CiaranMcDCFC

The charges are agreed between the retailer and their Card Acquirer. BOI do not provide card acquiring services themselves but do so via Evalon. BOI will not have these details to hand so replies given are acceptable.
From my experience the retailer has the right to apply a minimum spend on cards. If they apply a levy on purchases with cards that do not apply to other methods of payment then these are liable to chargeback with the notable exception being Ticketmaster and Air lines. The card scheme websites do provide a lot of information but you do have to go searching for it.
So bascially if you want to find out about the fees the merchants are charged going to the banks directly is no point as they do not provide the services.

triple-M

In a shop where I worked we were charged 40 cent I believe for each card transaction regardless of spend amount by the customer

dahamsta

Visa has zero part to play in the matter, they don't deal directly with consumers OR retailers, under any circumstances. Stating otherwise, particularly so authoritatively, is either pure ignorance or an outright lie.

And again, for the 3rd time by my count, there are standard procedures in place for all but the very largest of retailers: flat fee for laser, not for visa.

A minimum spend may be at the discretion of the retailer, but that's not and has never been the question.

ScouseMouse

triple-M wrote: »

In a shop where I worked we were charged 40 cent I believe for each card transaction regardless of spend amount by the customer

That would probably be combined fees for a low turnover store. For someone like Tesco or Dunnes, the average sale may be 30, 50, 100 euro, whatever. A small fee negotiated due to volume of transactions, to them is nothing.

To a small store with low volume, and low spend (under a tenner say), 40 cent means everything.

As usual the policy is pass-the-buck to the retailer. Bank claims its nothing to do with us.....:rolleyes:

The small shop just wants to rip everyone off !

CiaranMcDCFC

superscouse wrote: »

That would probably be combined fees for a low turnover store. For someone like Tesco or Dunnes, the average sale may be 30, 50, 100 euro, whatever. A small fee negotiated due to volume of transactions, to them is nothing.

To a small store with low volume, and low spend (under a tenner say), 40 cent means everything.

As usual the policy is pass-the-buck to the retailer. Bank claims its nothing to do with us.....:rolleyes:

The small shop just wants to rip everyone off !

It has nothing to do with the bank, they do not provide Card Acquiring services, For BOI it is done via Evalon, seperate company. In relation to Visa / Mastercard they do not deal directly with the merchants however they create the rules with which all acquirers must comply. Lots of Bank staff refer to Card Acquiring as 'VISA' simply because when the Card Acquiring businesses were initally set up by the banks back in the 80's there was only Visa cards and the name has stuck, stupid but one of those things with the banks.

dahamsta

It's Elavon, if anyone is googling it. BOI is an anomaly in this regard, most Irish banks have their own merchant divisions; BOI were simply too incompetent to manage their own. I still have not one but two BOI merchant accounts because BOI couldn't get it into their thick skulls that ecommerce = commerce.

CuFaoil

CiaranMcDCFC wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the bank, they do not provide Card Acquiring services, For BOI it is done via Evalon, seperate company.

As the original poster of the question, thanks for all of the replies. I have to say like dahamsta, I have found some of the BoI replies somewhat unhelpful. A lot of words etc.

As a BoI customer, I have my accounts, and therefore my bank cards with this bank. Irrespective of whether they use a 3rd party company to manage these cards, if I have a query, my dealings should be solely with the bank responsible and as I see it, the card issuer was BoI. I have been told to contact Visa. This is just passing the buck. Visa did not send me the card, BoI did. Similarly, Visa could simply tell me to go back and speak to my bank.

For the retailers who've responded, thank you for the responses. I anticipated that this would most likely be the case, RE: transaction fees, rental of machines etc. I have no problem with the retailers, I was merely enquiring as to why sometimes a minimum is set and sometimes it's not. Grand, I accept this is the case.

I would just have liked to know where this is in legislation, as ultimately the Central Bank dictate how financial institutions operate. If it is in black and white, at least I can see it for myself.

Regards,
CuFaoil

Bank of Ireland: Pat

Hi CuFaoil,

Apologies if you were unhappy with the responses that were given. We have done our best to provide you with as much information as possible.

As the bank that issue the cards, we would be able to answer queries about the cards themselves and would manage the day to day usage for our customers. However, as CiaranMcDCFC pointed out, the Acquiring Services which allow retailers to accept payments from Visa Debit cards are performed by an outside company (Elavon Merchant Services Ltd). We cannot comment on the practices or procedures of a third party regardless of their relationship with Bank of Ireland.

If you have any further queries that are related directly to Elavon Merchant Services Ltd, you can find their contact details here. They would be better suited to supply you with the information you are looking for.

Thanks
Pat

CuFaoil

Thanks Pat,

As I said, I have no issue with Elavon. Though I can see the issues their pricing structures would cause for Retailers. Whom I empathise with.

Found this article: http://www.retailnews.ie/news/retailer-boycott-over-visa-card-costs-

Thanks,
CuFaoil