Sinn Fein TD Dessie Ellis linked to 50 IRA murders

dvpower

Stheno wrote: »

But should we make being a convicted criminal something that precludes one from being a TD the subsequent purge would exclude Adams but get rid of Ellis

Personally I think nobody should be precluded from being a TD. The people are sovereign, so if they want a convicted criminal to represent them then they should have it. I'd go even further - if a convicted criminal who was jailed was elected to the Oireachtas, the Criminal Justice system should facilitate them in carrying out their elected duties.
But that's just me -I'm a bit of a liberal.

I do like to know exactly who my elected representatives have had a hand in murdering 'tho.

Seaneh

dvpower wrote: »

I do like to know exactly who my elected representatives have had a hand in murdering 'tho.

So he was convicted of these murders by the British justice system then?

dvpower

Seaneh wrote: »

So he was convicted of these murders by the British justice system then?

Who are you referring to, Ellis or Adams?

Ellis is a convicted terrorist. Adams is a not convicted terrorist.

Stheno

dvpower wrote: »

Personally I think nobody should be precluded from being a TD. The people are sovereign, so if they want a convicted criminal to represent them then they should have it. I'd go even further - if a convicted criminal who was jailed was elected to the Oireachtas, the Criminal Justice system should facilitate them in carrying out their elected duties.
But that's just me -I'm a bit of a liberal.

I do like to know exactly who my elected representatives have had a hand in murdering 'tho.

I'm not as liberal as you.

I'd like to think our political representatives obey the laws of the land, so I'd get rid of those who don't pay the household charge and advocate not doing so, those convicted of any offence including traffic offences, those found to evade train fares, taking bribes etc.

You'd probably get rid of half the Dail in that case, but it can't be anything but a good thing.

Live a good life, and represent your people, don't expect us to respect you if you are unlawful if my opinion.

And I include Adams in that list of unlawful, along with an awful lot of FG/FF/Lab tbh/Independants to be honest.

Stheno

dvpower wrote: »

Who are you referring to, Ellis or Adams?

Ellis is a convicted terrorist. Adams is a not convicted terrorist.

Ellis was convicted in an ROI court.

I remember the protests when he was extradited.

dvpower

Stheno wrote: »

Ellis was convicted in an ROI court.

I remember the protests when he was extradited.

That's right.
Ellis is a convicted terrorist, convicted in our courts.

Stheno

dvpower wrote: »

That's right.
Ellis is a convicted terrorist, convicted in our courts.

And imo he should not be in our Dail.

Seaneh

dvpower wrote: »

Who are you referring to, Ellis or Adams?

Ellis is a convicted terrorist. Adams is a not convicted terrorist.

Both

Ellis was never convicted for those murders.

Zebra3

dvpower wrote: »

What has this got to do with Dessie Ellis?

It's to do with the hypocrites in our government who pick and choose which mass murderers they are mates with.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Why don't they stay up in the North in the Stormont talking shop. They've no business in our parliament. The fcuking windup of this country altogether would be them getting into government down here. I betcha Arthur Griffth would spin in his grave if he could see what his party has become.

GRMA

Serious shake of the head at the cabal of fascists trying to concoct a way to get rid of people from the Dail who were fairly and democratically elected by the Irish people to be there.

pablomakaveli

GRMA wrote: »

Serious shake of the head at the cabal of fascists trying to concoct a way to get rid of people from the Dail who were fairly and democratically elected by the Irish people to be there.

Its a bit rich when a republican labels people fascists. A lot of republicans dont even recognize this state or the democratically elected government in it.

.jacksparrow.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Its a bit rich when a republican labels people fascists. A lot of republicans dont even recognize this state or the democratically elected government in it.

Sinn Fein do,is this who were not talking about?

Zebra3

Will all the supporters of FF, FG and Labour come out and condemn all those from their parties down the years whom were happy with a system that handed kids over to the Roman church for them to be raped and terrorised?

When they've done that, then they can start having a pop at other parties.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

That's pretty obvious. In order to stop these criminals from continuing their campaign of murder and mayhem, we've decided to pay the price of not perusing them.

That doesn't wipe away their crimes. Adams is still a terrorist.

That's a serious allegation. :pac:

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why don't they stay up in the North in the Stormont talking shop. They've no business in our parliament. The fcuking windup of this country altogether would be them getting into government down here. I betcha Arthur Griffth would spin in his grave if he could see what his party has become.

You heard about the Easter rising right?

Conall Cernach

Ghandee wrote: »

You heard about the Easter rising right?

The parliament that sits in Leinster House has no relationship to 1916. It was founded by a British Act of Parliament as part of a counter revolution that overthrew the parliament of the Irish Republic i.e. Dáil Éireann.

Ghandee

Conall Cernach wrote: »

The parliament that sits in Leinster House has no relationship to 1916. It was founded by a British Act of Parliament as part of a counter revolution that overthrew the parliament of the Irish Republic i.e. Dáil Éireann.

That's correct obviously.

My post was in a reply to a remark that the Sinn Fein party had 'no business in our parliament' despite the fact he mentions Arthur Griffith in his post.

GRMA

On the one hand FG get the kicks into Dessie Ellis over something long known to the public - he was in the IRA and made bombs and may have killed people - and demand "truth" and on the other they continue to cover up loyalist bombings.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belturbet-bombing-735795-Dec2012/?utm_source=twitter_self

poeticseraphim

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzz

Nice to know that SF supporters care so much about human life it's destruction sends them asleep.


And they are pro-life?????? HAHAHAHHAHA...actually no it is just sad really upsetting.....the fact that people in this country support that brutal sadistic murderer.

And yeah the country is on it's knees so lets vote those who used murder to achieve a political goal....Yeah that's clever....lets vote for our violent dictators...lets go the whole hog and REALLY turn this place into a dictatorship..way to kill your own people Dessie..yeah so glad you're in the Dáil representing me....you might kill me if you feel strongly enough about something but hey you're SF your supporters will see you through thick and thin. They are that antipathetic towards other humans they don't care that one of their TD's is connected to 50 MURDERS.......they care so little for law and order yet we have to all vote SF cuz of Dem Banksters!

GRMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uZQKr4xE-4

Good program. There's part two and three too goes through how they made bombs, rather flimsy on the political front but thats not what the program is about

Nodin

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Nice to know (.......)Dem Banksters!

Deep breaths, relax.

RandomName2

Confab wrote: »

I don't support Sinn Fein or the IRA at all, but Fine Gael started out as a terrorist organisation too. And Enda Kenny's responses to any of Sinn Fein's legitimate questions with 'ah sure you're just terrorists' is beyond pathetic. They are a legitmate political party with a growing presence in Ireland. It just shows how bad Kenny really is as a leader and also how poor his diplomatic skills really are.

No it didn't. Fine Gael didn't exist before 1933.

Fine Gael members did consist of people who took part in things like the war of independence ... but whatever you feel about that it doesn't really matter: THEY'RE ALL DEAD.

Sinn Fein currently has members who have murdered - and refuse to even talk about it.

That's serious.

Wibbs

The only way this country will move forward and grow up in a few areas of our culture is if we just let things go. On all sides. We'll have to sooner or later, may as well be sooner.

TheDoc

steddyeddy wrote: »

Tony blair and george Bush are responsible for the deaths of far more people. Politicians responsible for murder are not confined to Ireland.

jesus wept

Dyr

RandomName2 wrote: »

No it didn't. Fine Gael didn't exist before 1933.

Fine Gael members did consist of people who took part in things like the war of independence ... but whatever you feel about that it doesn't really matter: THEY'RE ALL DEAD.

Sinn Fein currently has members who have murdered - and refuse to even talk about it.

That's serious.

Any idea who the bould dessie was involved in murthering?

No?

RandomName2

Bambi wrote: »

Any idea who the bould dessie was involved in murthering?

No?

Dessie Ellis I presume, and not Dessie O'Hare?

Apparently up to 50 people.

I don't know the details, I'm afraid. He's refusing to discuss the matter publicly.

Wibbs wrote: »

The only way this country will move forward and grow up in a few areas of our culture is if we just let things go. On all sides. We'll have to sooner or later, may as well be sooner.

Sure, but although Sinn Fein members have promised to permanently lay down their arms, they refuse to discuss their bloody history, say it was wrong, or even apologise for their behaviour. Most even lie about being part of the IRA unless the evidence is undeniable - and it is frankly embarrassing how McGuinness (for one) says "sure I was a leader of the IRA, but you can't prove who I killed, so I can just say that I did nothing."

I mean, as a very minor example (it involves no bombs, shootings, etc) Fianna Fail making such disastrous mistakes about the economy was bad - but the thing that I can't stand is Bertie saying "sure it was the Lehman brothers". Ffs call a spade a spade: only when you put your hands up and say "we fkd up" can you move on.

And in relation to SF: how can we forget when they are even bare-faced denying what needs to be forgotten? Lie your way to reconciliation? :eek:

Ghandee

Bambi wrote: »

Any idea who the bould dessie was involved in murthering?

No?

My uncle Jimmy worked in bombardier in Belfast for a number of years.
He was on the production line for components that were fitted to missiles used in the Iraq war.

According to some on this thread, Jimmy is now a murderer too? :eek:

steddyeddy

TheDoc wrote: »

jesus wept

Sorry if you can handle it but they're responsible for far more deaths than the IRA. I'll sum it up by a line from a hero of mine Tony Benn:

“There is no moral difference between a Stealth bomber and a suicide bomber. They both kill innocent people for political reasons.”

RandomName2

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry if you can handle it but they're responsible for far more deaths than the IRA. I'll sum it up by a line from a hero of mine Tony Benn:

A stealth bomber: definition - an aircraft designed to avoid detection by radar and other electronic equipment. Typically designed for localised bomb of installations that are guarded by high density anti-aircraft defences.

Suicide bomber: Person who deliberately kills themselves whilst detonating an explosive or some similar weapon. Typically used in to maximise civilian and/or military casualties by providing close proximity between bomb and target. Predominantly carried out by religious fanatics who believe that such a sacrifice will prove their martyrdom.

Nah, don't worry; Tony Benn isn't being retarded in that comment, just entirely disingenuous.

I mean the funny thing is, that I bet you aren't even saying that "sure, the IRA was wrong, but so was the American Army"... what I really imagine that you are saying is that "war is war".

Because why Iraq? Why not Korea, or WW2, or WW1, or the Crimean war, or the 30 Years' War, or the Mongol Invasions, or Roman conquest of Gaul? What the fup has Iraq got to do with the IRA? Nothing - but sure why not bring in an entirely different subject where we can get bogged down in the moralistic niceties of politics, sectarianism and warfare in the Arabian Gulf?

wilson10

Wibbs wrote: »

The only way this country will move forward and grow up in a few areas of our culture is if we just let things go. On all sides. We'll have to sooner or later, may as well be sooner.

Hope the scum who planted the bomb under a man's car in Belfast the other day to blow him and his family to pieces are listening and taking note.

Chuck Stone

RandomName2 wrote: »

Sure, but although Sinn Fein members have promised to permanently lay down their arms, they refuse to discuss their bloody history, say it was wrong, or even apologise for their behaviour.

Shows what you know.

The IRA last night apologised for the killing of all "non-combatants" who died during its campaign of terror. In an unprecedented statement, the republican terror group offered its "sincere apologies and condolences" to the families of victims during 30 years of violence. At the same time it said it acknowledged the grief and pain of the families of the combatants - police, soldiers and loyalist paramilitaries - killed during the violence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-128258/IRA-issues-apology-killings.html

Also, any discussion of 'bloody history' should be comprehensive and include all the belligerents and releasing of all the secret documents held by the Irish and British governments. The fact that people attempt to hold SF to a higher standard than other parties to the conflict is just more evidence of the tiresome double standards all too often displayed on these boards.

up for anything

GRMA wrote: »

"The Brits" doesnt mean British people and it never has. It means the British army, govt or security services.

So who or what serves in the British army, government and security services?

Dyr

RandomName2 wrote: »

Dessie Ellis I presume, and not Dessie O'Hare?

Apparently up to 50 people.

I don't know the details, I'm afraid. He's refusing to discuss the matter publicly.

Given that dessie ellis is mentioned in the thread title its a safe bet that only a fkin thick would need to ask which dessie, but I'm sure you're just being facetious rather than just thick

Anyway, "apparently" ain't good enough hoss, so lets ask again: who are these 50 people that dessie ellis was involved in murdering. Do you know? Does anyone posting here?

Chuck Stone

Bambi wrote: »

who are these 50 people that dessie ellis was involved in murdering. Do you know? Does anyone posting here?

Nope. And it seems they can't even get him for conspiracy to commit murder so the document is about as useful as a mint-flavoured suppository imo.

Also, we don't know if the people murdered were part of the British/Unionist security apparatus (and it proxies) who were doing a fair bit of murdering themselves.

KeithAFCs Ghost.

Where To wrote: »

Hi Keith.

That wasn't actually me. Its pretty obvious when I post on here.

Anyway, this is no surprise. Happy to see the other Irish parties keep reminding the Irish electorate about Sinn Fein and the dirty past they have.

.jacksparrow.

Oh god someone please tell me this isn't Keith AFC oh god no please!!

RandomName2

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Shows what you know.



Also, any discussion of 'bloody history' should be comprehensive and include all the belligerents and releasing of all the secret documents held by the Irish and British governments. The fact that people attempt to hold SF to a higher standard than other parties to the conflict is just more evidence of the tiresome double standards all too often displayed on these boards.

Oh so wait... the IRA is Sinn Fein now?

Bambi wrote: »

Given that dessie ellis is mentioned in the thread title its a safe bet that only a fkin thick would need to ask which dessie, but I'm sure you're just being facetious rather than just thick

A facetiousness answer for a rhetorical question.

Chuck Stone

RandomName2 wrote: »

Oh so wait... the IRA is Sinn Fein now?

D'uh. There are former members of the IRA in SF. What? People in SF who weren't involved in para-militarism should also apologise? Daft.

Try harder. Be better.

RandomName2

Chuck Stone wrote: »

D'uh. There are former members of the IRA in SF. What? People in SF who weren't involved in para-militarism should also apologise? Daft.

Try harder. Be better.

Thought you'd offer up that weak counter-argument.

That cursory, anonymous apology was issued in 2002 by a branch of the IRA.

The current members of Sinn Fein, particularly senior members, stem from a time prior to 2002 (significantly prior in fact).

And what did Sinn Fein say on the matter? What did they say about the "you know when we said it was war, and not our fault? Well for the sake of expediency we're now repudiating that position."

Hm?

Not much. Alex Maskey, Sinn Fein's first lord mayor of Belfast, described the IRA's statement as "very significant". Very significant? So was the bombing of Hiroshima. What? Nothing to do with me. As you know, Sinn Fein has no direct connection with the IRA. Blah... Blah... Blah.

So yup. An anonymous apology issued by a terrorist who is still refusing to give up the auld cause (who knows, maybe the same man is the dissident who planted that car bomb yesterday evening?)

I would suggest you try harder... but such endeavours have diminishing returns.

Sinn Fein considers their entering politics apology enough.

Chuck Stone

RandomName2 wrote: »

her de derp

That's nice and all but do you think you could address your selectivity as regards holding SF to a higher standard than everyone else or are you quite comfortable flaunting your double standards and bias?

Here it is again below for your second opportunity to try harder and be better with.

Also, any discussion of 'bloody history' should be comprehensive and include all the belligerents and releasing of all the secret documents held by the Irish and British governments. The fact that people attempt to hold SF to a higher standard than other parties to the conflict is just more evidence of the tiresome double standards all too often displayed on these boards.

Border-Rat

Free staters hating on Shinners have serious post-colonial issues. We'll get these types of closet Unionists and hangers-on for a generation or two after partition unfortunately, at least. You'd be surprised how many similar self-haters exist in other similar areas like India.

Anglophiles with serious esteem issues.

gallag

Take the night off lads.

pablomakaveli

Border-Rat wrote: »

Free staters hating on Shinners have serious post-colonial issues. We'll get these types of closet Unionists and hangers-on for a generation or two after partition unfortunately, at least. You'd be surprised how many similar self-haters exist in other similar areas like India.

Anglophiles with serious esteem issues.

Na the ones with self-esteem issues are the knuckle dragging shinners whose lives revolve around fighting an imaginary struggle that no-one no longer cares about against an enemy who barely cares that they exist.

SoulandForm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Na the ones with self-esteem issues are the knuckle dragging shinners whose lives revolve around fighting an imaginary struggle that no-one no longer cares about against an enemy who barely cares that they exist.

What are you trying to say here exactly? Sinn Fein are one of the largest political parties in Ireland.

No one no longer cares about? Some people do care?

The fact that so much of the British secret service money goes into Northern Ireland should tell you that the British state does care that Republicanism exists in Ireland.

RandomName2

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That's nice and all

FYP instead of addressing points?

Chuck Stone wrote: »

but do you think you could address your selectivity as regards holding SF to a higher standard than everyone else or are you quite comfortable flaunting your double standards and bias?

You are seriously putting the Irish and British governments on a par with the IRA from which the current Sinn Fein members stem (I have to spell out the fact that those militant republican groups are separate from any of the post-GFA militant republican groups so you don't go off on another tangent).

I'm more than willing to flaunt the fact that nobody in the Irish or British governments murdered anyone. As for Sinn Fein: who knows? We know that a significant core were IRA members but they refuse to elaborate on their involvement (Gerry Adams apparently wasn't a member at all! :rolleyes:).

Are they embarrassed? Are they ashamed? Afraid of public backlash? You cannot say that they are afraid of prosecution as crimes committed prior to the GFA are specifically subject to the amnesty. So they don't say what they did was wrong, or right, or even a necessary evil: whatever they say, they say nothing. Sure who'd be asking anyway besides Brits or West-Brit sympathisers, or Free-Staters, or Unionists, or so-called victims.


As for the British Government, they did go to some length to uncover the truth about Bloody Sunday (the worst atrocity committed by the British armed forces) and discredit the lies published by the British Army. They also apologised.

In all honesty I don't really have to try; but your sympathies are obvious, and no argument will dissuade you.

Oh wait, were you waiting to pull the 'But what about Eamon Gilmore?' Chewbacca argument like it was some rhetorical silver-bullet? :pac:

SoulandForm

RandomName2 wrote: »

As for the British Government, they did go to some length to uncover the truth about Bloody Sunday (the worst atrocity committed by the British armed forces) and discredit the lies published by the British Army. They also apologised.

I think you are forgetting the Dublin bombing.

Zebra3

RandomName2 wrote: »

You are seriously putting the Irish and British governments on a par with the IRA from which the current Sinn Fein members stem (I have to spell out the fact that those militant republican groups are separate from any of the post-GFA militant republican groups so you don't go off on another tangent).

You're right, just look at the blood on the hands of the present and past British governments.

thecommietommy

Confab wrote: »

I don't support Sinn Fein or the IRA at all, but Fine Gael started out as a terrorist organisation too. And Enda Kenny's responses to any of Sinn Fein's legitimate questions with 'ah sure you're just terrorists' is beyond pathetic. They are a legitmate political party with a growing presence in Ireland. It just shows how bad Kenny really is as a leader and also how poor his diplomatic skills really are.

Craig Orange Succotash wrote: »

I wish people would just stop racking up our troubled past, its like picking of the scab on a healing wound.

The God damned state was born out of terror for crying out loud.

Leave the fecking past where it belongs and move bloody well on ffs.

Interesting and good comments, both recieving large Thanks messages. Obviously something VERY, VERY strange has happened to the mods on boards.ie I remember a time if anyone expressed anything positive about Sinn Fein they would get an infraction from certain mods !!!!! Changed times indeed, looks like Sinn Fein are the coming force

RandomName2

SoulandForm wrote: »

I think you are forgetting the Dublin bombing.

That was not the British army - as for collusion, when people say the 'British Government' they are almost universally referring to Westminster as opposed to the Stormont administration.

In relation to the terrorists who committed the Dublin-Monaghan bombing: I don't think any of them are TDs, are they?

wilson10

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Sinn Fein do,is this who were not talking about?

If only I still had the local election literature dropped in my door by Sinn Fein many moons ago, I'm talking maybe 30 years, in which they clearly stated that they did not recognise the "Dublin Government" as the legitimate government of the country.

Sorry now I didn't keep it but of course it went straight in the fire or the bin as all subsequent Sinn Fein propaganda has.