What recession?

liammur

I tend to agree that our recession isn't as bad as elsewhere (i.e. Spain/Greece/Portugal). In fact, we shouldn't even have one. Certain sectors and indeed regions have been hit far harder than others, but overall I feel we shouldn't be given much of a bank debt deal next year, as there are other countries far worse than us.

Icepick

Dublin region is still quite rich and economically strong so such scenes are normal. It also has a robust black economy so statistical figures need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, going into a shopping centre to eventually buy a shirt for 20 euro isn't that hard, is it.

Retailer

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Isn't that usually how it goes anyway?

Recession or not, the Christmas period is always the busiest time for retail so it naturally decreases after Feb anyway until Xmas 13.

I hope you did not pay anyone significant amount of money for all those projections and predictions :P

I should have been clearer.
Projections are showing a decrease in consumer spend on 2012 figures.

No one paid for coming up with the projections!
We have been reasonably accurate year on year to date however

COYW

Icepick wrote: »

Also, going into a shopping centre to eventually buy a shirt for 20 euro isn't that hard, is it.

I agree. I was in Liffey Valley and town both sides of Christmas and whilst the car parks and shops were busy there was very little spending going on and the amounts were small.

The Liffey valley centre was jammed with people but the shops were actually pretty quiet. I don't remember having to queue to pay in any of the shops I was in.

We were in Brown Thomas yesterday and the lady was telling us that there were tonnes of shoppers in looking for bargains but sales were slow. We didn't have to wait for a sales assistant to come over to us when we entered and there were no people waiting for her when we left.

People will still go to these centres to have a look around etc but that does not mean that they are spending in them. Also OP, people could be using their credit card to fund these spends. I don't like credit cards at all but people do it and it doesn't mean they have more to give.

Wils110

So you went to Liffey valley and there was loads of people there and that means no recession......4 years ago 5 years ago every weekend up to Christmas you couldn't get near a shopping center car park


Living beside blanchardstown sc IMO this was the quietest year I've seen since it opened

FREETV

If people pay the preposterous Property Tax then retail sales will dwindle accordingly and will have a knock on effect, they will have less to spend and tightening of their belts/budgeting will occur. Most of the good stuff is gone in the first days of the sales.

ardmacha

If people pay the preposterous Property Tax then retail sales will dwindle accordingly and will have a knock on effect, they will have less to spend and tightening of their belts/budgeting will occur.

Everyone pretty much knows how much property tax they will have to pay. The point is that as sustainable taxation system approaches people can see the end in sight and while a boom will not result, a modest increase in confidence can support spending levels while the public finances are balanced.

FREETV

ardmacha wrote: »

Everyone pretty much knows how much property tax they will have to pay. The point is that as sustainable taxation system approaches people can see the end in sight and while a boom will not result, a modest increase in confidence can support spending levels while the public finances are balanced.

A qualified Economist from a different country told me that there was no way back with the present monetary system in place. It is a debt based economy con. That tax is immoral and crazy. It should be avoided at all costs.

beaner88

You'd be in favour of a straight ten billion of spending cuts then? Probably need another 5 the next year after the economy contracts.

liammur

FREETV wrote: »

A qualified Economist from a different country told me that there was no way back with the present monetary system in place. It is a debt based economy con. That tax is immoral and crazy. It should be avoided at all costs.

Car tax is higher than property tax! In fairness, we are getting off the hook very lightly with property tax.

Sand

beaner88 wrote: »

You'd be in favour of a straight ten billion of spending cuts then? Probably need another 5 the next year after the economy contracts.

For a tiny open economy with negative government spending multipliers - yes of course. Ireland tried spending itself out of the 1980s in the 1980s. That's why your parents shudder when they recall the 1980s. We got a decade of massive economic failure and emigration. A lot like the current era...

Nobody learns from empirical evidence of course. Economics is apparently not a science.

As for a "straight" ten billion of spending cuts...its practically 2013. Almost 6 years since the bottom fell out of the global bubble and people are still talking about *sudden* adjustments. There's nothing rash about cutting your cloth to measure when you have no more cloth. When you ran out of cloth 6 fricking years ago.

FREETV

beaner88 wrote: »

You'd be in favour of a straight ten billion of spending cuts then? Probably need another 5 the next year after the economy contracts.

No, the system is rigged and the Economist even said it. It happens in cycles on purpose. It was designed to bring all but the wealthiest of elites down on their knees. We are all monetary debt slaves. That is why there are booms then bust and Wall St didn't help either or speculating. Some day in the next 500 years money and credit will be no more or sooner if most people waken up to reality. Multinational take over worldwide by Corporations is the plan. For one man to succeed another will fail at his expense.

tippspur

liammur wrote: »

Car tax is higher than property tax! In fairness, we are getting off the hook very lightly with property tax.

Getting off lightly? this tax will balloon upwards in the next few years,of that you can be certain.

liammur

tippspur wrote: »

Getting off lightly? this tax will balloon upwards in the next few years,of that you can be certain.

You are probably right in that. But at the moment, I don't think we can complain.

FREETV

liammur wrote: »

You are probably right in that. But at the moment, I don't think we can complain.

I think that we should do a heck of a lot more than complain in my opinion, democratically oppose it and force its abolition for good. I am telling you it will make it even more difficult and unattractive to buy property in this country. Landlords will keep increasing their rents. The insane tax will rise and rise and become a cancer. Time for people to look after themselves and their families, form local opposition groups and take to the streets in protest and never vote again for the likes of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. I don't think the words debt based economy con have ever been mentioned on Irish mainstream media?

FREETV

tippspur wrote: »

Getting off lightly? this tax will balloon upwards in the next few years,of that you can be certain.

Yes and the rich will get richer and the poor poorer, politics hasn't worked for ages, only the Big Pharma, Multinationals, Bond Holders ,Economists who write books, make tv appearances,W****r Bankers profit from these so called Celtic Tiger booms. I can't see why we as a people are so afraid to say no, take action and stand up for ourselves. We never seem to learn. Politicians are mostly in cahoots with the above mentioned. A radical new system is needed worldwide. I can see some Politicians being escorted by men on both arms out of Leinster House with the words, you are all sacked and surplus to requirement. That is what it would take and no violence will be necessary. Why listen, watch or put up with these gob*****s anymore, they are mostly all the same and are out for their own benefit. Labour/Fine Gael have lied to the public and broken all of their promises. Liars in suits! With their fat cat expenses and their high salaries they couldn't give a s**t if the average man and his/her family suffers as long as they protect the Elite of society.

Good loser

FREETV wrote: »

I think that we should do a heck of a lot more than complain in my opinion, democratically oppose it and force its abolition for good. I am telling you it will make it even more difficult and unattractive to buy property in this country. Landlords will keep increasing their rents. The insane tax will rise and rise and become a cancer. Time for people to look after themselves and their families, form local opposition groups and take to the streets in protest and never vote again for the likes of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. I don't think the words debt based economy con have ever been mentioned on Irish mainstream media?

That's a load of horse manure.

The property tax operated in this country for 125 years before an idiotic FF abolished it in 1978.

Quite correctly the Troika are insisting it be re introduced - every (adult) country in Europe has one.

It's a done deal by now.

Scofflaw

Sand wrote: »

For a tiny open economy with negative government spending multipliers - yes of course. Ireland tried spending itself out of the 1980s in the 1980s. That's why your parents shudder when they recall the 1980s. We got a decade of massive economic failure and emigration. A lot like the current era...

Nobody learns from empirical evidence of course. Economics is apparently not a science.

As for a "straight" ten billion of spending cuts...its practically 2013. Almost 6 years since the bottom fell out of the global bubble and people are still talking about *sudden* adjustments. There's nothing rash about cutting your cloth to measure when you have no more cloth. When you ran out of cloth 6 fricking years ago.

Not disagreeing with the thrust of that, but "negative government spending multipliers"? Should that not be fractional government spending multipliers, as in less than 1?

cordially,
Scofflaw

BuzzFish

thebman wrote: »

You get offers for companies with poor working conditions hence the high staff turn over and why they are online headhunting or recruitment agencies fishing to get experienced cvs on their system regardless of roles available.

If your struggling to attract people with experience to your company, they have probably blackened their name. Either that or the job descriptions need review or perhaps HR isn't doing their job.

I've worked for job sites in the past, there are reasons companies struggle to hire and it isn't lack of people willing to work.

The good places never struggle to find people and I've seen the statistics that prove it directly off the database. The only reason a good place to work, doesn't get the applicants is bad advertising.

What a complete load of crap. How you can make such comments based on nothing?!

"You get offers for companies with poor working conditions" - I certainly do not. I know and work with many individuals in these companies and they have great reputations.

"If your struggling to attract people with experience to your company, they have probably blackened their name." - Again, complete rubbish. In fact I work for a multinational which is one of the driving forces behind the whole cloud era and which had a great reputation, worldwide. I fact we are listed in the top 10 glasdoor companies consistently. We struggle to get the "right" people with the correct qualifications and/or experience.

Next time maybe take a more open approach to your posts and make a few less assumptions.

Boskowski

Scortho wrote: »

Fairly optimistic from someone who's family had been waiting close to 100 Years to get onto grafton st.

If you waited 100 years to get onto Grafton Street a minor blip like a temporary recession is really only that and should play no role in the decision.

donkey balls

I work in the transport&logistic industry and over the last few years while companies would be ramping up the deliveries to the stores from September onwards,This has not been the case with some stores taking smaller deliveries were as before they would be getting extra loads delivered.
I was talking to a guy I know who works for a supply chain company and he was telling me that two of the companies they do logistics for are are going merge the transport together,The reason for this is that the trucks are not going out with full loads were as pre recession they were normally chockers.
The transport&logistic industries are normally a good indicator on how a country is doing exports/imports etc along with domestic transport.

Bullseye1

Good loser wrote: »

That's a load of horse manure.

The property tax operated in this country for 125 years before an idiotic FF abolished it in 1978.

Quite correctly the Troika are insisting it be re introduced - every (adult) country in Europe has one.

It's a done deal by now.

So those who don't have a property tax are not Adult? What sort of nonsense is this? The only people who want a property tax are those who rely on tax for their income.

avalon68

Bullseye1 wrote: »

So those who don't have a property tax are not Adult? What sort of nonsense is this? The only people who want a property tax are those who rely on tax for their income.

Ummmm.....like the nation? Don't know about you, but I quite like having roads to drive on, police, hospitals, schools.......pretty sure they all run off taxes! Like most people, i would like to see these run more efficiently, and thats something everyone should hassles their local politicians about until it changes, but It's a sustainable tax that needs to be brought back, it should never have been removed in the first place. And I think someone already pointed out on this thread - it probably will be less than car tax for many people.

devasativa

ulyssescohen wrote: »

The recession is a myth. I went to Liffey valley a while ago, and not only was there a queue to get into the car park - there was a queue to get out. It was choc-a-block. I recall a similar situation in Kildare Village a year ago. In fact, it is very difficult to get parking in Kildare Village after 2pm

There is no recession in this domestic economy. And I don't care what stats you provide - the car park barometer is accurate.

And I welcome the property tax - those who can afford subscriptions to Sky can well afford it. Well done Mr Noonan. Middle Ireland has lots more to give.

wow i cant believe there are actually people that think like this in Ireland
what you have just said is complete nonsense

so hundreds of thousands of people that have had to go else where to find work. and all the people in negative equity. and all the business that have let people go in construction . and quinn direct 5000 people gone no there is no recession but you must be right because it came from you

devasativa

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

At the click of a button, I will magic those 500k down to 325k:

http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasequarterlynationalhouseholdsurveyquarter32012/

Still a lot of unemployed though.

that's only because they have been forced to look for work in Australia and Canada

gbee

ulyssescohen wrote: »

The recession is a myth. .

Yes the Santa buying public drop their guard each and every year, no posts about Santa not bringing presents this year, was there? Very few at any rate.

devasativa

green123 wrote: »

82 % of people can afford to pay for sky or upc for television subscriptions.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/noonan-if-they-can-pay-for-sky-tv-they-can-pay-my-property-tax-3334471.html

noonan is right.

people want sky and upc so they dont have to watch the pure propaganda that irish station feeds the people
and anyway what has it got to do with noonan what goes on inside some ones home. most people share tv bills

Bullseye1

avalon68 wrote: »

Ummmm.....like the nation? Don't know about you, but I quite like having roads to drive on, police, hospitals, schools.......pretty sure they all run off taxes! Like most people, i would like to see these run more efficiently, and thats something everyone should hassles their local politicians about until it changes, but It's a sustainable tax that needs to be brought back, it should never have been removed in the first place. And I think someone already pointed out on this thread - it probably will be less than car tax for many people.

When you say the nation I hope you realise your not talking for everyone. Not everyone believes in big government, some of us believe in smaller more efficient government and less interference in the everyday running of ones business. Let the private sector provide jobs, not the public sector.

Just back from visiting my local authority. All closed for business at 3.30pm. This is the level of service we get currently. Can you see any improvement when this property tax kicks in? I cannot.

avalon68

Bullseye1 wrote: »

When you say the nation I hope you realise your not talking for everyone. Not everyone believes in big government, some of us believe in smaller more efficient government and less interference in the everyday running of ones business. Let the private sector provide jobs, not the public sector.

Just back from visiting my local authority. All closed for business at 3.30pm. This is the level of service we get currently. Can you see any improvement when this property tax kicks in? I cannot.

I completely agree we get poor services, and I dont for a second think this property tax will change that. Like I said - its up to the Irish people to pressure their local politicians to effect change. You want less government interference; I for one would like to see less Union interference. Sick to the teeth of seeing union heads on the news as if they were elected to run the country. I want to see accountability in the system, whereby underachievers are removed and good employees are rewarded. No point moaning about services on the internet (and I totally agree, being closed at 3.30 is ridiculous!) - get into the local council office and complain. Still doesnt change the fact we need a sustainable tax such as a property tax into the future. My hope is that eventually when all the dust settles, we might have better leaner, more efficient services in the long term ( One can dream ).

Godge

devasativa wrote: »

people want sky and upc so they dont have to watch the pure propaganda that irish station feeds the people
and anyway what has it got to do with noonan what goes on inside some ones home. most people share tv bills

Come on, you are not trying to defend that statistic are you?

82% of Irish people have pay television. That means they have the money to pay for something better than the free service.

Even the cheapest package over 12 months would cover 2013 property tax on an average house. That means lack of money is not an argument against property tax. Basically, if you can't afford the property tax, there are at least two options for most. Either sell the property or give up pay television.

Zonda999

Having read effectively none of the seven pages in this thread, my response to the opening post is that yes, you go out shopping and the streets are still crowded, you go to a shopping centre and the car park is still full up. That doesn't mean we are not in a recession or a "downturn" as its been officially for the last few years.

Economic activity is all relative. Did the OP expect such places to be empty and the shopping centre to be boarded up? If that were the case, there would be no economy, not as we know it anyway. Let me put it this way, in the context of that shopping centre. Lets say the car park was full every day of last year and the average spend per person per day in the the centre was 100€, but this year, the car park was full every day also, but the average spend per person was €95, that would still be akin to a very deep recession as regards the shopping centre. It would equate to a drop of 5% year on year. The point being, everything may appear fine, as the car park is full, but the 5% drop in sales might be far less apparent. The same is true for the economy as a whole, everything may appear fine at times, but there is the constant knowledge that we are supposedly in a recession..

Tbh, I don;t like when I hear people saying the "what recession" quote when they see somwhere is busy. I always look at it as some form of begrudgery or ignorance or something. As in the underlaying though is that nobody should be spending or flaunting like that in a recession, when the polar opposite of itis true by way that people have to spend money for an economy to go anywhere other than contraction...

RainyDay

devasativa wrote: »

people want sky and upc so they dont have to watch the pure propaganda that irish station feeds the people

So they prefer the pure propaganda produced by Sky and other UK stations then?

rasper

Noonan is some twat with his let them eat cake analogy , fact is hes yet taking another weeks wages out of every house in the state and comes
Out with a well if paddy can pay for tv / booze / bread well then we must have too much

Janedoe10

What recession ? Pah !! Healy Rae wedding Killarney =750 guests http://www.independent.ie/national-news/its-the-kingdoms-own-royal-wedding-as-healyrae-ties-knot-3339457.html

Scortho

Boskowski wrote: »

If you waited 100 years to get onto Grafton Street a minor blip like a temporary recession is really only that and should play no role in the decision.

Oh most certainly. And thats what this is. Its a blip in the economy. If we compare the standard of living now to the standard of living 20-30 years ago, we've came a long way.

He did however pay 5 million for the building. Could be seen as the steal of the decade in years to come.

FREETV

rasper wrote: »

Noonan is some twat with his let them eat cake analogy , fact is hes yet taking another weeks wages out of every house in the state and comes
Out with a well if paddy can pay for tv / booze / bread well then we must have too much

I agree and he spouts bull all the time, he is two faced, ignorant and arrogant and is out of touch with the reality of things for the Joe Bloggs on the street. Do you remember his appearance on the Late Late before being elected as part of the government? What Politicians have done for everyone in this country is to bring it and the economy back almost twenty years. The Property Tax will most likely lead to a decline in Retail sales this year. Vat at 23% is way too high also. Fifteen percent in any country is more than enough.
He isn't short of food either by the looks of him while the poor are. Lots of homeless people still living on the streets and people unable to pay mortgages.

mfceiling

green123 wrote: »

82 % of people can afford to pay for sky or upc for television subscriptions.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/noonan-if-they-can-pay-for-sky-tv-they-can-pay-my-property-tax-3334471.html

noonan is right.

Mine is €23 a month - other than that i would have next to no channels.

But the government is right - fcuk anybody having the nerve to have anything - the gamblers in europe need paying for the gambles that backfired on them so let's go to the people for it.

Only so many times you can go to the well or "you can't take knickers off a bare arse"

Dynamo Roller1

ulyssescohen wrote: »

The recession is a myth. I went to Liffey valley a while ago, and not only was there a queue to get into the car park - there was a queue to get out. It was choc-a-block. I recall a similar situation in Kildare Village a year ago. In fact, it is very difficult to get parking in Kildare Village after 2pm

There is no recession in this domestic economy. And I don't care what stats you provide - the car park barometer is accurate.

And I welcome the property tax - those who can afford subscriptions to Sky can well afford it. Well done Mr Noonan. Middle Ireland has lots more to give.

Have you left the PALE lately :mad:

FREETV

mfceiling wrote: »

Mine is €23 a month - other than that i would have next to no channels.

But the government is right - fcuk anybody having the nerve to have anything - the gamblers in europe need paying for the gambles that backfired on them so let's go to the people for it.

Only so many times you can go to the well or "you can't take knickers off a bare arse"

I couldn't afford to pay for subscription tv and wouldn't either even if I could as there isn't much on any of the channels apart from reality rubbish, cooking programmes, repeats, thrashy American shows and negative depressing news. They have a better choice of television to watch FTA in the Middle East. More and more people are going the Freesat /Saorview/Freeview route out of sheer necessity and cutting back on bills, clothes,footwear and food shopping as a result of these gamblers. The Politicians need to take a further salary cut, not the other public servants in my opinion. We the people have already given far too much in taxes. We are pushovers as a nation.

maninasia

Scortho wrote: »

Oh most certainly. And thats what this is. Its a blip in the economy. If we compare the standard of living now to the standard of living 20-30 years ago, we've came a long way.

He did however pay 5 million for the building. Could be seen as the steal of the decade in years to come.

Some blip.

Good loser

I didn't vote FG in the election but I consider Noonan an excellent Minister for Finance.

A good debater, experienced, on top of his brief, a steady pair of hands and hitting the targets he has been given. Yesterday's figures for VAT receipts, services orders and manufacturing have all been excellent.

They say he only wants to serve for two years for health etc reasons; I think it would not be a good day for the economy if he left. A good result in the away game in March would be a fitting send off.

djpbarry

mogrady14 wrote: »

Small locally owned businesses are in recession. Go to towns and see the lack of people shopping in their local towns, they are shopping in large foreign owned retailers e.g. Kildare Outlet Centre, Swords Pavillions.

That’s hardly a recent development though, is it? I lived in Lucan from around about 1990 - 2004 and the idea that someone would shop in Lucan Village, rather than Liffey Valley (post-1998) or the City Centre, would have been thought of as ridiculous.

Godge

mfceiling wrote: »

Mine is €23 a month - other than that i would have next to no channels.

But the government is right - fcuk anybody having the nerve to have anything - the gamblers in europe need paying for the gambles that backfired on them so let's go to the people for it.

Only so many times you can go to the well or "you can't take knickers off a bare arse"

23 euro per month is €276 per year.

In 2013 we are only paying half the property tax. A house worth more than €300,000 would have a bill in 2013 of around €270. So noonan's point is valid.

flutered

i have noticed for years when some item of nation interest is making headlines new posters arrive taking a particular side.

bk

Noonan is off his head if he thinks people having Sky/UPC is a sign of their ability to pay property tax.

While I believe Sky is overly expensive for what it offers, it is the cheapest form of entertainment available. Sky is the last refuge for people who can no longer afford to go to the pub to watch a match or the cinema to watch a movie, etc.

For people who still have a job, but disposable income is very tight, it is one of their few comforts.

Of course if you are unemployed you probably can't afford it, but then maybe you are sharing in a house with 4 or 5 other people, so between all of you, you can afford a Sky subscription.

It is when people stop their Sky subs is when you really have to worry. I see Sky as the modern day Roman Colosseum. In Rome, the rich financed the games in the Colosseum to keep the unemployed and just getting by entertained. They knew that if they were feed (the word dole comes from Rome where they used to hand out bread to the poor) and kept them entertained, people would be too busy to think about rioting on the streets for change.

Sky is the modern day version of this. When people can't afford Sky any more, then the politicians should really start to worry, because that is when people will start to think for themselves and may end up on the streets!!

BTW I cancelled my Sky sub this week.

flutered

liammur wrote: »

You are probably right in that. But at the moment, I don't think we can complain.

liam you are young and lively, you have a pretty good job, i assume that you are been renumerated accordanly, i am old and disabled, mt income is getting shafted regulary, i still have to pay roughly the same amount as you, where will it come from.

flutered

bk wrote: »

Noonan is off his head if he thinks people having Sky/UPC is a sign of their ability to pay property tax.

While I believe Sky is overly expensive for what it offers, it is the cheapest form of entertainment available. Sky is the last refuge for people who can no longer afford to go to the pub to watch a match or the cinema to watch a movie, etc.

For people who still have a job, but disposable income is very tight, it is one of their few comforts.

Of course if you are unemployed you probably can't afford it, but then maybe you are sharing in a house with 4 or 5 other people, so between all of you, you can afford a Sky subscription.

It is when people stop their Sky subs is when you really have to worry. I see Sky as the modern day Roman Colosseum. In Rome, the rich financed the games in the Colosseum to keep the unemployed and just getting by entertained. They knew that if they were feed (the word dole comes from Rome where they used to hand out bread to the poor) and kept them entertained, people would be too busy to think about rioting on the streets for change.

Sky is the modern day version of this. When people can't afford Sky any more, then the politicians should really start to worry, because that is when people will start to think for themselves and may end up on the streets!!

BTW I cancelled my Sky sub this week.

i am assuming that the greatest percentage of sky dishes are in council and corporation dewellings, they will not have to pay the household charge.

gbee

flutered wrote: »

i have noticed for years when some item of nation interest is making headlines new posters arrive taking a particular side.

Ya, they are usually government shills.

You recognise them by the way they talk, the ordinary punter scratching a living or dying a slow death would not speak in the same way or use the style or arrogance.

My country is dead, any recovery won't benefit me or my kind, there is so much damage done that even if the boom returned in 24hrs offering me €1,000 a day, I am so broken that I could not take advantage of it.

There is just too huge a queue of people waiting.

djpbarry

bk wrote: »

Sky is the last refuge for people who can no longer afford to go to the pub to watch a match...

So the definition of rock bottom in 21st century Ireland is not being able to watch Man Utd live?

Have people completely lost all sense of perspective?

gbee wrote: »

My country is dead...

Ireland has a very, very, very long way to go before it could be considered “dead”.

Godge

bk wrote: »

Noonan is off his head if he thinks people having Sky/UPC is a sign of their ability to pay property tax.

While I believe Sky is overly expensive for what it offers, it is the cheapest form of entertainment available. Sky is the last refuge for people who can no longer afford to go to the pub to watch a match or the cinema to watch a movie, etc.

For people who still have a job, but disposable income is very tight, it is one of their few comforts.

Of course if you are unemployed you probably can't afford it, but then maybe you are sharing in a house with 4 or 5 other people, so between all of you, you can afford a Sky subscription.

It is when people stop their Sky subs is when you really have to worry. I see Sky as the modern day Roman Colosseum. In Rome, the rich financed the games in the Colosseum to keep the unemployed and just getting by entertained. They knew that if they were feed (the word dole comes from Rome where they used to hand out bread to the poor) and kept them entertained, people would be too busy to think about rioting on the streets for change.

Sky is the modern day version of this. When people can't afford Sky any more, then the politicians should really start to worry, because that is when people will start to think for themselves and may end up on the streets!!

BTW I cancelled my Sky sub this week.

you are missing the point.

82% of households in Ireland have pay television. The equivalent figure for the UK is 50%. Ireland is well above the average for the EU in terms of pay tv subscribers. Yet Irish people expect pay television as part of their standard of living. It is an adjustment in that expectation that is needed.