If a new political party was formed in what policies would you like to see it have?

mogrady14

If a new political party was formed in 2013, what policies would you like to see it have? What policy would you like in relation to:
The EU; should we declare independence from it, or integrate ourselves fully or something else?
The Civil Service: Should it be jobs for life or should we let everybody into it for a while?
Border Control: Open borders or controls?
Labour market: Regulated or Anything goes?
Accountability: Something that happens in Iceland or maybe Ireland?
Healthcare: Hire Frontline staff or not?
Unemployment/Disability/Single parents/ not working:What to do about the huge number on these payments?
NAMA and the Banks: Transparent investigation or nods and winks?

Al Capwned

Tell the fu**ing truth.

mogrady14

Alproctor: Are you talking about accountability? How would you like it to be put in place?

hyperborean

mogrady14 wrote: »

If a new political party was formed in 2013, what policies would you like to see it have? Would you like to see change or would you be happy with the status quo?

Something needs to be done about citizens!
There needs to be a social contract, access to the public services only when a contribution is proven,
Credits given to younger folk who need time to get up and dance but once they run out and no proven contribution to society is forthcoming then only access to 2000 calories of food per day and a bed somewhere with the rest of the bums or let their family(the ones who brought them into the world) take care of them.

Anyone contributing need not worry, the baby making, dole scrounging, junky alcoholic deadbeats can sing.

Its time to stop the social welfare gravy train and only offer help to those who help themselves or have built up enough credits.

Basically a FG Tea Party Party

Manach

To paraphrase from Bismark, only believe what the Government officially denies.
If there were a tabula rasa for political parties, I might prefer if there was not one but four new parties reflecting the various points of the political compass. This would at least be move away from the civil war politics and doffing of the hat to the State union sectors.

Al Capwned

mogrady14 wrote: »

Alproctor: Are you talking about accountability? How would you like it to be put in place?

I'm talking about not making promises pre-election with the express intention of misleading the electorate.
I'm talking about answering a question with a straight bloody answer.
I'm talking about politicians at ALL levels doing their best for the people that elected them, not what is best for themselves, their family, their financial backers or those of whatever political party they are aligned to.

Start there.

mogrady14

Hyperborean: Tell me more about this social contract. I know its non-existent at the moment. How would you go about putting it in place?

hyperborean

mogrady14 wrote: »

Hyperborean: Tell me more about this social contract. I know its non-existent at the moment. How would you go about putting it in place?

Have to go pick the misses up from the shops, will put some meat on the bone later.

newmug

• Minumum wage for all politicians, with a bonus at the end of their term, reflective of how satisfied the people were with their performance.
• Pensions and expenses to be funded from their "spare" cash, just like everybody else.
• Rules to be set on capitalist "supply and demand" theory. Eg. if something is in such short supply that its price inflates ridiculously, put a limit on how much it can inflate, to make it fair to the less well off. Similarly, set a boundary below which it cannot drop, to make it fair for the producers.
• Everyone must do 1 year of service in the Guards or Army, free of charge, when they reach 20. And 1 weeks refresher training every year until 50.
• Tighten up sentencing. Over 3 offences, 10 years for fourth regardless of gravity of crime. That will stop little baxtars with 40 convictions for petty stuff finally killing someone some day.

Reward patriotism, frown upon un-patriotistic things. Here's a copy and paste of a previous post:

Originally Posted by newmug
Here's my solution:

1) Build a massive underground jail, the biggest jail in the world, fit to hold 1 million people.

2) Put every joyriding, junkie, fraudster, banker, paedophile, illegal immigrant, shoplifting, lying politicians, dishonest, violent scumbag in Ireland into it.

3) Take in prisoners from other countries. Charge the other countries for keeping their scum. This will keep more good people of the world safe, dilute crime levels worldwide, and help our economy.

4) Have treadmills in the jail. Make the scum run on them and generate electricity.

5) Sell the electricity, which will not only boost our economy evenfurther, but will help the global warming crisis aswell.

6) Scrap all previous laws, and start from scratch. Publish a book called "The Law". Make it available to everybody in Ireland. Teach it in schools. Leave no excuse for criminal behaviour.

7) In this book, state the sentences. Rape of children = rest of your life in jail. Not 4 years with 2 suspended, not 18 months and a donation to charity, minimum of 100 years just to be sure. Same for dealing drugs. This is both as a punishment, and to keep criminals away from normal people. Normal people dont rob, do drugs, or rape. Also, longer sentences = more electricity produced.

8) Aim to build a society which mimics that of "The Girl From Tomorrow". The only people who should be walking around freely are those responsible enough to know how to use their freedom properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVS376aIVqQ&feature=related

southsiderosie

mogrady14 wrote: »

If a new political party was formed in 2013, what policies would you like to see it have? What policy would you like in relation to:
The EU; should we declare independence from it, or integrate ourselves fully or something else?
The Civil Service: Should it be jobs for life or should we let everybody into it for a while?
Border Control: Open borders or controls?
Labour market: Regulated or Anything goes?
Accountability: Something that happens in Iceland or maybe Ireland?
Healthcare: Hire Frontline staff or not?
Unemployment/Disability/Single parents/ not working:What to do about the huge number on these payments?
NAMA and the Banks: Transparent investigation or nods and winks?

What do you think, OP?

Death and Taxes

hyperborean wrote: »

Something needs to be done about citizens!
There needs to be a social contract, access to the public services only when a contribution is proven,
Credits given to younger folk who need time to get up and dance but once they run out and no proven contribution to society is forthcoming then only access to 2000 calories of food per day and a bed somewhere with the rest of the bums or let their family(the ones who brought them into the world) take care of them.

Anyone contributing need not worry, the baby making, dole scrounging, junky alcoholic deadbeats can sing.

Its time to stop the social welfare gravy train and only offer help to those who help themselves or have built up enough credits.

Basically a FG Tea Party Party

Your post sir does for reasoned debate what a chainsaw does for keyhole surgery.:mad:

ninty9er

New contracts for all new public sector entrants. People in the private sector work at the same desk as people earning 20% more based solely on time of entry, why is a 2 tier public sector different?

I don't have private healthcare provided, people in my company hired in 2011 do.

Apart from that, political and public service pensions to be slashed and to be capped at 300% of the state contributory pension for the highest earners, with 25% of AVC paid by dept. To be DC, not DB.

Higher taxes, no income tax exemptions, adjust corporation tax based on a gross profit:employment ratio, making it lower for companies who have a higher employment to profit ratio, subject to a minimum 5% to incentivise employment. Cut standard and service VAT by 3%, domestic rating, abolish motor tax and replace with local taxation and nominal tolls.

Banks, sorry, the banks are our Hitler, the vast majority voted for it, we can't blame anyone else. It'll take decades, but negotiating a Versailles style schedule would be a priority. Investigate and prosecute where illegal actions are evidenced.

EU - No change

Frontline - continue a move to centres of excellence, recruit more nurses and doctors, make the redundancies that weren't made when the HSE was created.

Recruit more Gardaí, continue to rationalise stations, but replace with mobile patrols (increase the fleet)

Continue with rationalisation of schools, hire more teachers, continue with modularising of some subjects to allow further educational diversity. Our schools exist to further knowledge, not as induction centres for the workplace.

Abolish the free fees scheme whilst simultaneously taking state funding of third level to back to 2007 levels fixing the funding crisis and giving some chance of survival and international competitiveness to our universities. Extremely importantly: recognise not all school leavers are academic and provide practical third level education in things like motor mechanics, carpentry etc, what FÁS should have been, but with the focus on educating, not making work ready. Work ready people are not necessarily educated, nor vice versa, but it is for employers to set expectations and practices for employees, not the state.

I have more, but I'm off out and I'm running late.

sea sound

A new party should care about getting the country out of the recession rather than being populist, reduce unemployment radically and increase equality.

The EU: Ireland should try and be as independent as possible and fight against any further integration.

The Civil Service: Jobs should be for life, as long as employees fufill their duties, and are willing to move to new areas and retrain if needed.
Croagh Park agreement should be ended so that there can be further cuts in pay to high paid workers like teachers and civil servants.

Border control: Tight as possible. We have 324500 unemployed, we should make sure that all new jobs go to these workers, at least for low-medium skilled jobs.

Labour market: Tighter regulation. All industries that serve solely the domestic economy should be unionised. Severe penalties for companies employing illegal workers or paying below the minimum wage.

Healthcare: Gradually increase number of doctors and consultants. Have compulsory medical insurance for everyone to end two tier health system.

Unemployment/Disability/Single parents/ not working: Try to leave alone for unemployment, but gradually reduce age children need to be to 6to claim single parent benefits.

Education: Eliminate student contribution charge. Have an allowance of 10,000 euros per year for every student. Reduce number of third level institutes from 38 to under 20. Increase funding of universites but monitor teaching and research quality.

Taxes: Small increase of income taxes for all workers to reduce the budget deficit and to allow the government more flexibility in reducing unemployment.

BOHtox

Free market capitalism

K3lso

*Leave The European Union and say goodbye to the ECB.
*Abolish legal tender laws and allow private currencies/precious metals to circulate.
*Abolish the Seanad and the Presidency.
*Take power from national government and give it to local councils/administrations with direct democracy (as local as possible). There must be competition between councils fighting for residents.
*Abolish state departments such as Dept. of Health, Dept. Education etc.
*Businesses that fail, die. No bailouts.
*Abolish all quangos if no possibility of privatisation. (Privatise RTE).
*Allow generic medicines and abolish occupational licensing. All medicines should be over-the-counter.
*Legalise prostitution, gambling (casinos), all drugs (yes, even heroin and cocaine), nightclubs (yes, they're illegal currently), the sale of alcohol 24/7, and get the government out of marriage altogether so that it becomes nothing more than a contract i.e - the permitting of LGBT and polygamy marriages of all sorts.
*Local administrations should exist to enforce contracts, nothing more and certainly not to legislate morality.
*Abolish income taxes, inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, corporate taxes, household charges, USC and property taxes.
*Legalise gun ownership for those that wish to protect themselves and their families.
*A true separation of church and state.
*Step aside to encourage a free market to flourish and leave any international organisation that impedes free trade.
*Allow private security companies to compete with An Garda Siochana.

These are just a few things, but it's a start.

SoulandForm

hyperborean wrote: »

Anyone contributing need not worry, the baby making, dole scrounging, junky alcoholic deadbeats can sing.

Its time to stop the social welfare gravy train and only offer help to those who help themselves or have built up enough credits.

What about those who take more than they contribute at the top?

Great stuff- only there are not enough jobs to go around under the current system and long term unemployment takes its psychological tole. A government should insure full employment.

SeanW

Here's what I would like a new political party to do:

1. Decriminalise and tax all but the hardest of drugs, (i.e. exclude crack cocaine and heroin). That means cannibis, E, LSD, mushrooms etc.
2. Vastly deregulate the alcohol trade. Introduce staggered closing times for pubs and clubs so that you don't have everyone spilling out the places at the same time.
3. Loosen the gun laws so as to allow people of good character to hold small arms for self defense.
4. More jails, running more cost effectively, to lock up people who are not fit to be in a civilised society.
   • Violent crime (especially where unprovoked or aggravated) long jail sentences and you don't get out until you prove genuine remorese and a low liklihood of reoffence.
   • Crimes of so-called "anti social behaviour" i.e. joyriding, setting cars etc. on fire, threatening/abusive behaviour to automatically incur a jail sentence or other form of punishment.
   • Child molesters, rapists, murderers and human traffickers to be jailed for life.
   • An X-Strikes rule to allow jailing for life of someone who again is arrested after previously having more than a certain number of previous convictions. No more people killed/assaulted by people who were out on bail for their 135th offense.
5. Lessen the status of crimes that do not have an explicit victim, to misdemeanours with fines.
6. Radically reform the bankruptcy laws so that those who genuinely have no means to pay their debts are not held to obligations they cannot meet.
7. Fix the budget problem by tackling the 3 sacred cows: income tax, public sector pay (heavy emphasis on administrators and wasters in all sectors) and welfare rates. No more cuts to fire stations, schools and the like. and no need for increases in regressive taxes such as property taxes, motor taxes etc.
8. Find money somewhere to pay for the Dublin Metro, DART underground and further investments in roads and railways nationwide.
9. Begin buying gold for the Central Bank of Ireland and leave the Euro when we're ready to float a new Punt with a credible gold reserve standard.
10. Get the much vanted "deal" from the E.U. for having done everything they asked (not imposing losses on Anglo bondholders, not buying subordinated bonds when they were going for pennies on the euro, leaving vulture capitalists like Roman Abrahmovic to get them) or default on everything and throw the Euro into chaos. Time to stop playing nice as it has got us nothing but a mess of unnecessary soverign debt!
11. Investigate everyone connected with Anglo and the decision to guarantee its debts.
12. A constitutional ban on any further government guarantees or bailouts of banks or insurance companies or anything esle.
13. Repeal laws mandating the teaching of religion to children, and concentrate funding on non-denominational or multi-denominational schools.

fianna saor

multi functional hospitals in each county i.e. one building that houses general, maternity, childrens and specialist units etc. the sale of current out dated buildings and sites would contribute to the cost. possibly major cities like dublin/cork to have two.

four new purpose built provincial prisons. as above sale of current out dated sites like mountjoy to contribute to cost.

reduction in salaries for td's amongst others.

wave goodbye to the euro and say hello to our own currency

legalisation of cannabis, with in return severe sentencing for any other drug related crimes. also the introduction of on the spot random drug testing from gardai to anyone they deem under the influence of drugs i.e. the sleep walking junkies we see plagueing our cities. if tested positive they would be detained in a specialised unit in the fore mentioned prisons and held until such time as they have a clean bill of health. no softly softly methadone treatments jus plain cold turkey.

stricter requirements for entry to the gardai and also regular training and assessments. the setting up of a new ombudsman unit that provides regular checks on the police as a watchdog type unit.

conscription for everybody at the relevant age for maybe 12 - 18 months.

tighter border controls, lets look after this country before we start looking after everybody elses.

gradual reduction in social welfare payments after 6 months.

COYW

1. Cut social welfare for those who have been on the dole for more than X years and have been assessed as fit to work. Before anyone argues with this, there are plenty out there who refused to take up employment when we had full employment. Also, anyone on the dole who refuses work because the dole makes more financial sense should have it cut too.

2. Introduce strict performance measurement criteria in the public sector. Those who do not meet the requirements should be replaced by younger, newly qualified people in their field.

3. Stricter requirements for entry into the political classes. i.e. those with questionable financial backgrounds or links to criminal/terrorist organisations cannot run for office.

4. Build stronger links with the EU, moving us towards a USE with the aim of handing over final sign off of our affairs (budgets in particular) to such a body.

5. Build more prisons and remove luxuries such as TV from prisons. The ideal location from these prisons are smaller islands around the 26 counties.

6. End our neutrality, which is a joke, we are not neutral and build military links with the US and British forces.

7. Proceed with important public transport projects like Metro north. It is insane that we have no rail/tram links to our national airport in the year 2012.

SoulandForm

fianna saor wrote: »

gradual reduction in social welfare payments after 6 months.

I agree with everything you wrote but this.

Instead of this I would suggest some type of workfare scheme where people would have to do some work in order to get welfare.

bedrock#1

hyperborean wrote: »

Something needs to be done about citizens!
There needs to be a social contract, access to the public services only when a contribution is proven,
Credits given to younger folk who need time to get up and dance but once they run out and no proven contribution to society is forthcoming then only access to 2000 calories of food per day and a bed somewhere with the rest of the bums or let their family(the ones who brought them into the world) take care of them.

Anyone contributing need not worry, the baby making, dole scrounging, junky alcoholic deadbeats can sing.

Its time to stop the social welfare gravy train and only offer help to those who help themselves or have built up enough credits.

Basically a FG Tea Party Party

Exactly the same arguments made by eugenicists in support of Stalin's Gulags and Hitler's Camps. It's only a small step from here to sterilization of the 'undesirables' in society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvsf2MUKRQ

fianna saor

SoulandForm wrote: »

I agree with everything you wrote but this.

Instead of this I would suggest some type of workfare scheme where people would have to do some work in order to get welfare.

part of my reasoning for the reduction idea in social welfare comes from the fact we all know there are social welfare spongers in this country whether they be irish or not. there is a culture of social welfare tourism here whether people like to believe it or not, does anybody think that those welfare tourists would stick around if their payments start decreasing? also for our own spongers, i think that would be a major incentive for them to get up off their arses and actually look for work. both of these scenarios would see a huge saving in the amount of social welfare being shelled out. i do like your suggestion though where people have to earn their few bob maybe some sort of compromise of the two ideas would be a runner.

also with regard to people having to work to earn their payments, another suggestion i forgot to throw in was certain category prisoners doing manual labour to compensate for the cost of housing them i.e. cleaning graffitti or road maintenance/construction etc.

Death and Taxes

fianna saor wrote: »

part of my reasoning for the reduction idea in social welfare comes from the fact we all know there are social welfare spongers in this country whether they be irish or not. there is a culture of social welfare tourism here whether people like to believe it or not, does anybody think that those welfare tourists would stick around if their payments start decreasing? also for our own spongers, i think that would be a major incentive for them to get up off their arses and actually look for work. both of these scenarios would see a huge saving in the amount of social welfare being shelled out. i do like your suggestion though where people have to earn their few bob maybe some sort of compromise of the two ideas would be a runner.

also with regard to people having to work to earn their payments, another suggestion i forgot to throw in was certain category prisoners doing manual labour to compensate for the cost of housing them i.e. cleaning graffitti or road maintenance/construction etc.

" there is a culture of social welfare tourism here" Really, would you care to provide a link to your source evidence for that claim, particularly bearing in mind the Habitual Residency clause?

BOHtox

Privatise everything

hyperborean

BOHtox wrote: »

Privatise everything

including the word privatize.

InchicoreDude

Wow, I did not realise boards contributors were so extreme....

:
The EU; should we declare independence from it, or integrate ourselves fully or something else?

Fully integrate. As bad as Ireland is, I am pretty certain we would a lot worse off outside the EU.

The Civil Service: Should it be jobs for life or should we let everybody into it for a while?

It is not about ajob for life or a job for a while. If someone is doing a job well, they should be retained. Where is the logic of replacing someone who is doing a good job with someone less abled?
The Civil Service should be staffed by people that are able to do their jobs satisfactorily.


Border Control: Open borders or controls?

Ireland has been more generous to immigrants than most countries in recent years. It is time to tighten up on this for a while to get things in order (For example social welfare payments that end up going abroad)

Labour market: Regulated or Anything goes?
Accountability: Something that happens in Iceland or maybe Ireland?
Healthcare: Hire Frontline staff or not?
An overhaul of the medical training in this country that encourages doctors to stay within the Irish system rather than leave it. Recent graduates who have qualfied who have left Ireland / consider leaving should be used to improve the system. It would be cheaper to keep the doctors we train rather than having to import doctors from other countries which happened in the last year.
I cant see how any party could oppose frontline hiring on principle at all.

Unemployment/Disability/Single parents/ not working:What to do about the huge number on these payments?

Payments should continue but stricter guidelines on who qualifies should be enforced.

Endless Nameless

I'd like a new party to advocate the reduction in the size of the Government and replace the displaced power with competition-based Free Market Capitalism.
I'd also like them to insist that the Government stay out of the personal lives of the populace.

The EU; should we declare independence from it, or integrate ourselves fully or something else?

We should stay inside the European trading zone for ease of the movement of products, services and people.
However, Brussels should stay out of the way of our law-making and never make our laws for us.
Indigenous sovereignty is important for efficiency and transparency.

The Civil Service: Should it be jobs for life or should we let everybody into it for a while?

Anybody who isn't good at their job should be fired, however there shouldn't be too many of these jobs anyway.

Labour market: Regulated or Anything goes?

A small amount of regulation.
The age you start working should be reduced, simultaneously to give more liberty in the life choices of teenagers and so that college degrees are actually worthwhile.

Minimum wage should be reduced greatly or gotten rid of altogether.

Government subsidisation of Private Companies should be abolished.

Unemployment/Disability/Single parents/ not working:What to do about the huge number on these payments?

Dole money should not be something you can live comfortably on.
Maybe replace it with food stamps and a small amount of rent allowance.

The disabled (who can't take care of themselves) could either be taken care of by the Government or by Private Charities.

Einhard

Judging by the broad tone of comments on boards, and on other fora, I think most people would demand a policy of tackling our massive budget deficit in a direct, committed manner...without any tax increases...or further charges...or cuts to pensioners...or to child benefit...or reducations in carers' allowance...or disability benefit...or the dole...or single parents' allowance...or anything that might impact on me...or my family...or anyone...

hyperborean

Einhard wrote: »

Judging by the broad tone of comments on boards, and on other fora, I think most people would demand a policy of tackling our massive budget deficit in a direct, committed manner...without any tax increases...or further charges...or cuts to pensioners...or to child benefit...or reducations in carers' allowance...or disability benefit...or the dole...or single parents' allowance...or anything that might impact on me...or my family...or anyone...

nail -head.

I am waiting with baited breath for the unseen solution to our massive defeicit without cutiing expenditure, Maybe a SF economic document for a bit of a laugh.

enda1

I'd like a party that would try to take the unions in the PS head on and eliminate a lot of the waste inherent.
I'd like a sharp reduction in SW payments.
I'd like a more balanced tax system without this top loading as is going on.
I would like a VAT reduction.
I'd like a party which would prioritise education by ensuring universities get adequate funding.
I'd eliminate all faith schools from being allowed practice - Sunday school should suffice for this hobby.

These for a starter.

calm_bull

hyperborean wrote: »

Something needs to be done about citizens!
There needs to be a social contract, access to the public services only when a contribution is proven,
Credits given to younger folk who need time to get up and dance but once they run out and no proven contribution to society is forthcoming then only access to 2000 calories of food per day and a bed somewhere with the rest of the bums or let their family(the ones who brought them into the world) take care of them.

Anyone contributing need not worry, the baby making, dole scrounging, junky alcoholic deadbeats can sing.

Its time to stop the social welfare gravy train and only offer help to those who help themselves or have built up enough credits.

Basically a FG Tea Party Party

it makes me laugh that you assume us young folk don't want to work (i do) but i had difficulty during this recession in finding a job. maybe you are basing people on your own laziness when you were younger?

Fighting Irish

legalise cannabis

get rid of all ramps except for near schools

no speed limits on motorways

johnnyskeleton

I would vote for a party that would bring the deficit under control in a realistic manner. While I am of the view that taxes have probably been pushed as far as they can go for the moment (others say that welfare/ps pay has been pared to the bone) if such involves lots of tax increases and savage cuts to current expenditure then so be it. So far, the policies have been acceptable to the electorate and people put up with them but the signs of the long term degeneration of our country are clear.

We are spending far more than we take in tax, spending more than an Irish state has ever spent, in the midst of the worst recession we have had. While the deficit is decreasing, it is doing so for all the wrong reasons - cuts to the capital budget and a system where employment and innovation are discouraged. The growing industry of craft beers and whiskies could be damaged by the increase in already high excise rates on alcohol. Increasing the prsi minimum payment for the self employed discourages setting up ones own business. Jobbridge and a high minimum wage make it hard to take someone on in a full time starter position. Perpetual welfare benefits and supplimental payments to the long trrm unrmployed that make it harder to get back into the workforce the longer you are unemployed. Paying for health case twice - once for the public apparatus and again because it is so inefficient you either get private health insurance or you wait and wait and wait. Free education - not just in areas we want to incentivise eg top quality engineering and computer science, but for second rate business/law/marketing courses. Dealing with ps workers en bloc instead of fixing budgets for departments/quangos according to priority and letting them cut their cloth accordingly. These are just a few of the simple but important changes that could get the government finances back in order and get people back to work.

We need people to be selfless, and that means accepting that the reduction in your personal circumstances is necessary for the long term prosperity of the nation. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country, as JFK once said.

Eggy Baby!

Everyone must do 1 year of service in the Guards or Army, free of charge, when they reach 20. And 1 weeks refresher training every year until 50.

Tighten up sentencing. Over 3 offences, 10 years for fourth regardless of gravity of crime. That will stop little baxtars with 40 convictions for petty stuff finally killing someone some day.

Why is national service necessary in a neutral country? I'm nearly twenty, and the idea of national service is not appealing.

I respect your opinions, but the second suggestion is obscene. It would lead to an explosion in the prison population, and fill the prisons with innocent people. So, by and large, not only would it be morally reprehensible (justice is called justice for a reason) but it would not be pragmatic either.

thebman

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Why is national service necessary in a neutral country? I'm nearly twenty, and the idea of national service is not appealing.

We aren't really neutral but anyway if we were neutral like we sometimes like to claim we are then we would need national service since few would come to the rescue of a neutral country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality#Ireland.27s_concept_of_neutrality

I'd be in favor of it because it makes people more responsible and mature IMO.

ardmacha

The one attribute required of a new party is a commitment to transparency, in that it should be possible to see how money is spent and proper statistics should be produced to allow informed debate and proper management. The standard of debate in this country is woeful with everyone producing off the cuff unsubstantiated comments, a culture of fact based decision making is needed.

Cookie_Monster

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

I respect your opinions, but the second suggestion is obscene. It would lead to an explosion in the prison population, and fill the prisons with innocent people. So, by and large, not only would it be morally reprehensible (justice is called justice for a reason) but it would not be pragmatic either.

how is someone with 3 criminal convictions still an innocent
it's a great idea IMO

Eggy Baby!

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how is someone with 3 criminal convictions still an innocent
it's a great idea IMO

So if a guy shoplifts a can of coke on three different occasions then he should be shacked up with rapists and murderers? The punishment must fit the crime- a central tenet of justice. Without it, justice is not just.

We aren't really neutral but anyway if we were neutral like we sometimes like to claim we are then we would need national service since few would come to the rescue of a neutral country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_n..._of_neutrality

I'd be in favor of it because it makes people more responsible and mature IMO.

Actually, neutral countries are the ones which tend to be the most protected. Besides, who is going to attack Ireland, and why? For our vast oil reserves? Because of our expansionist foreign policy?

And so what if we are not really neutral? We don't need an army anyway. We should keep the Rangers for duties abroad but thats it.

Even then, conscript armies are not modern. It would simply fill our army up with bored student cannon fodder- an army to conquer the world, surely!

On the contrary, education and work makes people more mature and responsible. Drafting people into the Guards or the army would simply make them hate the government even more.

Cookie_Monster

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

So if a guy shoplifts a can of coke on three different occasions then he should be shacked up with rapists and murderers? The punishment must fit the crime- a central tenet of justice. Without it, justice is not just.

it does fit the crime. he gets whatever the standard punishment for stealing a coke the first two times, a chance to learn his mistakes, a chance to change his ways. if he doesn't take that chance he deserves to be locked up.

Eggy Baby!

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it does fit the crime. he gets whatever the standard punishment for stealing a coke the first two times, a chance to learn his mistakes, a chance to change his ways. if he doesn't take that chance he deserves to be locked up.

Wrong. He suffers his punishment each time for stealing on the three occasions. Apply proportional punishment to those who wrong the law for each offence. If society wants to reduce recidivism then it should rehabilitate criminals, not put them in jail more.

What has been suggested here is this "multiplier" effect, where even though the individual has served time or been punished for his previous crimes, he should be punished for them again. Such logic has led to the ballooning prison population in the USA....so honestly, I can't see it being implemented here.

And what happens if (a can of coke is too trivial a thing to steal for this example) the man stole out of necessity? What use is it if the government continually stomps on him?

how is someone with 3 criminal convictions still an innocent

If someone has gotten punished for 3 offences and served their time, they are technically an innocent person (maybe a free man would be a better term). If you have served your time you are basically redeemed in the eyes of the law and cannot serve any more for the same offences.

a chance to learn his mistakes, a chance to change his ways. if he doesn't take that chance he deserves to be locked up.

Repeating an offence is not a crime. The offence is a crime, if that makes any sense? Its kind of difficult to explain.

If a person steals a can of coke for the third time, they are guilty of stealing a can of coke. There is no such thing as an offence for recidivism. You may think it is okay to lock up a person in that instance, but the law doesn't.

TomRooney

A new political party has been formed, www.directdemocracyireland.ie The fundamental policy of the party is the re-introduction of a direct democratic system so the people of Ireland will really have a say in how our country is run.

Representative democracy is a sham.

enda1

TomRooney wrote: »

A new political party has been formed, www.directdemocracyireland.ie The fundamental policy of the party is the re-introduction of a direct democratic system so the people of Ireland will really have a say in how our country is run.

Representative democracy is a sham.

There is no possible way to run a country with direct democracy. That would imply that the country votes on every single decision the state must make.

Maybe you want a more direct form of democracy?

TomRooney

enda1 wrote: »

There is no possible way to run a country with direct democracy. That would imply that the country votes on every single decision the state must make.

Maybe you want a more direct form of democracy?

Your premise is wrong, it does not imply any such thing.
Direct democracy would allow for the majority of people to control the important decisions that face the people of Ireland, such as the bank bail out, immigration or any other important issue that might effect the people of Ireland directly.

Status quo politicians fear Direct democracy.

As for it not being possible, it works just fine in Switzerland.

oscarBravo

TomRooney wrote: »

Direct democracy would allow for the majority of people to control the important decisions that face the people of Ireland...

More accurately, it would allow the people to veto the government's decisions.

Referendums are inherently binary yes/no questions. Running a country tends to be more complicated than that, and few of the decisions a government has to make are as simple as a yes/no answer.

todolist

Reduce government.Withdraw from EU.End welfare culture.

fianna saor

TomRooney wrote: »

A new political party has been formed, www.directdemocracyireland.ie The fundamental policy of the party is the re-introduction of a direct democratic system so the people of Ireland will really have a say in how our country is run.

Representative democracy is a sham.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cant see that happening