Water Softeners

Dtp79

water2buy wrote: »

Hi

The shower element is a common victim - the limescale cakes it, it's a wonder how it heats the water at all.
A water softener will eventually flush out your entire system, pipes, cylinder, appliances etc...
A water softener will flush out existing limescale over 2-3 months, in bad cases it takes 5-6 months to be come lime free.

Hope this answers your questions.

Would it be that quick??
I always thought it takes years?
Any thoughts on these new combimates that are in all the suppliers?

ronaneire

water2buy wrote: »

Hi Lewis

The most common practice is install an inexpensive water filter tap after the water softener. They literally clip onto your water supply line with a 'saddle valve' which is a self tapping valve. They come with a small filter tap which you can mount on your kitchen sink. These are available anywhere from €30-€150, if your water is otherwise ok then the cheap one will be fine. Essentially this provides drinking water by filtering the water post softening (just at 1 tap)

I read a good article recently for those concerned about using water softener water for drinking. Here's the link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertyadvice/jeffhowell/9924702/Jeff-Howell-is-it-dangerous-to-drink-soft-water.html

All the best

An inexpensive filter will not remove salt/sodium from the water. The only way to remove is to install an R/O system and by doing so you then remove all minerals from the water.

jasgrif11

What's involved in servicing this unit? Is it something I can do myself?
I'm currently going through 12 bags of salt per year.

dingdong1234567

jasgrif11 wrote: »

What's involved in servicing this unit? Is it something I can do myself?
I'm currently going through 12 bags of salt per year.

That would not be unusual depending on your water quality etc.
However I would also like to know how to service this also as I have the same.

sarenka

Any experience with EWT?

I'm just about to book the installation as they run half price promotion plus free water filter.

ronaneire

sarenka wrote: »

Any experience with EWT?

I'm just about to book the installation as they run half price promotion plus free water filter.

Their "half price offer" is just a sales ploy. It is going on since they started and you shouldn't think just because you're getting a free filter that it seems like a bargain. There are plenty of other companies offering the same others better.

Have you shopped around?

sarenka

No I haven't really properly shopped around. I looked at few different softeners but to be honest I don't see anything better for the same price... I'm very open to ideas if you have other recommendations.
I just want modern metered unit that use none or very little electricity and it's water and salt efficient.
EWT is just close by to where I live...

Thanks

ronaneire

sarenka wrote: »

No I haven't really properly shopped around. I looked at few different softeners but to be honest I don't see anything better for the same price... I'm very open to ideas if you have other recommendations.
I just want modern metered unit that use none or very little electricity and it's water and salt efficient.
EWT is just close by to where I live...

Thanks

Google is your answer. They all use very little electricity and usage of salt comes down to the hardness of the water and how much water you actually use not the actual unit.

TMC99

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

That would not be unusual depending on your water quality etc.
However I would also like to know how to service this also as I have the same.

Bit late but quite easy to service if you're handy - have a look here

mona.lisa

I'm thinking about going ahead with this crowd http://www.ewtechnologies.ie/
Does anyone have any experience with them?
They have a fantastic offer at the moment of €649 for softener & drinking water filter supplied and fitted.

mona.lisa

Hi ronaneire can you PM me the other companies please?

sarenka

mona.lisa wrote: »

I'm thinking about going ahead with this crowd http://www.ewtechnologies.ie/
Does anyone have any experience with them?
They have a fantastic offer at the moment of €649 for softener & drinking water filter supplied and fitted.

I'm having mine fitted on Monday. I went for one model up, so it's slightly more expensive...

ronaneire

mona.lisa wrote: »

Hi ronaneire can you PM me the other companies please?

GOOGLE

mona.lisa

sarenka wrote: »

I'm having mine fitted on Monday. I went for one model up, so it's slightly more expensive...

Hi Sarenka

How much did you pay for the upgrade and what made you go for it?
Our household comprises of 2 adults and 2 kids.

mona.lisa

ronaneire wrote: »

GOOGLE

ha ha

mona.lisa

Hi Sarenka
How did you get on or is it too early to tell?

sarenka

mona.lisa wrote: »

Hi Sarenka
How did you get on or is it too early to tell?

I ended up going for a more expensive model so I paid 734 in total. It's tall but slim and takes less than a half of my kitchen unit. I also went for a larger water filter unit as it's connected to my cold water (water softener bypass cold water for drinking).
I imagine they all work more less the same, I'm in a new build so won't see any difference in terms of de-scaling etc. But I have been living in area for a while and I have seen and experienced damaged caused by lime scale in a period as short as 6 months! I won't have to worry about it now...

As for fitting service - it was excellent! Polite, friendly, professional and CLEAN! Our units were remodelled/rebuild inside to fit the water softener unit and still serve as kitchen units with necessary shelving for storage.

If you need any more details or would like to take advantage of a "referred by friend" offer just PM me.

Panrich

Jebus, This whole area is a minefield to navigate. I have been looking at several of these solutions using google (thanks ronaneire) and I'm not really any the wiser. It seems very difficult to compare the offerings from different companies in any meaningful way.
You have metered/timered, electric/non-electric, manufactured/packaged solutions. There are double tanks, block salt, package salt, special offers, water filters and reverse osmosis etc. etc.

I live in a hard water area (Meath) and was leaning towards the Kinetico (again ronaneire) but then I read this that indicates that the Kinetico is very expensive on running costs:

http://purechoice.co.uk/the-best-water-softener/

Shane732

ronaneire wrote: »

GOOGLE

Ronaneire,

Perhaps you could help me (us) a bit more....

You mention the Kinetico as being a system you would recommend. How does it compare to Clack systems?

Thinking of getting the Clack water softener from The Water Treatment Centre installed for €670, including free drinking water tap for kitchen.

Anybody got this one? Happy with it, worth it?

Thanks.

grousedogtom

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

Thinking of getting the Clack water softener from The Water Treatment Centre installed for €670, including free drinking water tap for kitchen.

Anybody got this one? Happy with it, worth it?

Thanks.

Clack valves are excellent valves on water softeners, just ensure its the Clack ci value as oppose to the Clack tc valve

Its Clack TC, what wrong with this one?

grousedogtom

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

Its Clack TC, what wrong with this one?

Noting wrong with the tc but the ci will be more economical on salt as it works on a volume of water used basis over the tc works on a timed basis. The ci should be only about 50 euro more expensive, but will safe money on salt in the future

grousedogtom

grousedogtom wrote: »

Noting wrong with the tc but the ci will be more economical on salt as it works on a volume of water used basis over the tc works on a timed basis. The ci should be only about 50 euro more expensive, but will safe money on salt in the future

OK thanks, will enquire about that.

Now how about the salt content of the water, as these softeners use salt to filter.. Do the softeners add much salt to the water?

grousedogtom

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

OK thanks, will enquire about that.

Now how about the salt content of the water, as these softeners use salt to filter.. Do the softeners add much salt to the water?

They don't actually use salt to filter the water, the softening resin in the fibreglass vessel softens the water as the hard water passes through the resin bed the hard ions attach themselves to the resin which in turn needs to be washed periodically with the salt/water solution known as brime, the treated water will increase sodium levels, how much depends on various factors. Besides a drinking water tap taken direct from the incoming supply is usually fitted to cater for drinking purposes

dathi

the water softener replaces the calcium ion in hard water with a sodium ion and its the sodium ion which causes problems for anyone with high blood pressure . it makes little difference if you eat it as salt on food or drink it in softened water , the body still processes it as sodium.that's why softeners must be installed with the cold water tap in the kitchen sink bypassed

aah yes

dathi wrote: »

the water softener replaces the calcium ion in hard water with a sodium ion and its the sodium ion which causes problems for anyone with high blood pressure . it makes little difference if you eat it as salt on food or drink it in softened water , the body still processes it as sodium.that's why softeners must be installed with the cold water tap in the kitchen sink bypassed

Its a common misconception about sodium levels in softened water and the need for a hard tap ...

[from one of my previous postings last year] ..


There is no sodium chloride imparted into softened water, only a trace sodium level of around 100 ppm / mg/l
depending on original water hardness and background raw water sodium levels.

The strict EU, HSE and EPA sodium concentration in tap water is 200 ppm / mg/l

Bottled waters like the popular San Pellegrino have 130 ppm / mg/l

Supermarket milk has around 300 to 500 ppm / mg/l

Also there are zero chlorides in softened water, though the safe EU level is 250 ppm / mg/l


So if you want to adjust your blood pressure either up or down which elevated sodium in diets can do, not necessarily upwards as it has a nominal causal effect, then you want to increase dietary sodium above the daily 2,400 mg/l to above the national average of 3,200 mg/L.

To gain an increase of 800 mg/l in daily dietary sodium and risk blood pressure variations up or down, you would need to focus on drinking about 8 litres of softened water per day, and avoid all other beverages.

If you drink 50% of your daily water intake straight from the softened water tap, say 1 litre, then you would increase dietary sodium by around 100 mg which would be a higher than the average daily intake for potable water of 2 litres, and higher than we typically drink from the soft water tap, as most people drink a variety of beverages, so this scenario would only therefore increase your dietary sodium intake by about 4%.

Doctors are more concerned about adding salt to your food, the average we put on food is about 15% through the salt shaker daily.

Doctors are even more concerned about the level of sodium ingested through processed foods which make up a large part of the remaining 85% we consume from salty foods like popular cereals, cornflakes, soups, bread, ham, bacon etc.

Regular softened water drinkers, taking an average of maybe 1/2 a litre (2% daily sodium intake) compared to the high sodium levels in milk, and the range of other beverages such as carbonated drinks which contain much more, also lesser sodium beverages such as tea, coffee, fruit juice, wine, beer, etc, etc, means that softened water is a tiny proportion or on average of 50 mg as part of the 2,400 mg we are aiming for, or 50 mg as part of the average 3,200 mg we generally tend to take in.

Of course if you are not getting enough of the daily 2,400 mg sodium intake we need, and instead take in below, 2,000 mg, then even drinking 2 or 3 litres of softened water a day, will not be enough to make up the deficit we need, so you will have to eat more cornflakes !

Pixie Chief

Hi guys, we are considering this too as water is very hard. Not so concerned about drinking water as that is easily fixed with a filter but last house had a salt water softener and despite claims about a low level of salt, you could strongly and clearly taste it in the water and it caused some fairly serious skin issues for me (to be fair, have underlying issue) and so while we need a water softener as lime is so heavy am keen to get one which won't cause skin problems. Any ideas?

aah yes

Pixie Chief wrote: »

Hi guys, we are considering this too as water is very hard. Not so concerned about drinking water as that is easily fixed with a filter but last house had a salt water softener and despite claims about a low level of salt, you could strongly and clearly taste it in the water and it caused some fairly serious skin issues for me (to be fair, have underlying issue) and so while we need a water softener as lime is so heavy am keen to get one which won't cause skin problems. Any ideas?

Hard water is known to aggravate skin conditions like psoriasis and eczema, and skin generally as limescale gets into clothing during the wash process precipitating into hard scaly deposits within clothing fibres causing them to wear clothing out more prematurely and cause potential itching to the more delicate skin.

"A Purdue University study found that fabrics washed in hard water tend to wear out as much as 15 percent faster than fabrics washed in soft water." (They cite a paper entitled, "Benefits of Using Soft vs. Hard Water in Laundering Operations," Water Quality Research Council, Purdue University.)

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=472

"A study carried out in a Chicago YMCA laundry, found that softening the water supply increased the life of frequently washed household items such as sheets, pillow slips and bath towels by 20-40%."

http://saltassociation.co.uk/edible-salt/water-softening/water-softening-environment/


However soft water is clearly very soft and gentle on skin as it contains zero levels of sodium chloride (salt) and of course the hard water that was causing skin aggravation has also gone by softening water.

If a water softener (usually an older or cheaper brand) develops a fault and allows actual sodium chloride into the softened water stream then there is clearly a fault with the machine.

Check my previous post above and you should see that trace sodium levels harmless both to skin and for potability are at virtually none existent levels in softened water, i.e. trace level, or below 0.1% concentration.

Of course never anywhere near 1% concentrations or the 10% level found in brine solutions, and somewhere in-between (5% - 10%) - for sea water levels, (which of course you can bathe in without problems - but maybe you would not want to drink !)


also see

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

Pixie Chief

Thanks GWS, amazing post! Will have to do some more thinking about it and some pricing. Interesting that the clothes etc last so much longer with softened water as well as the appliances so obviously an appreciable saving over time there too. I don't have an skin disorder per se, I have an autoimmune disorder that affects skin so it is more of a systemic thing but I would imagine that similar rules apply?

I really, really want fancy fridge with filtered water and ice maker (I know, I know but just want it) and to achieve that will have to run filtered water to it as will otherwise destroy fridge over time and had been dead set against salt because of experiences. Will have to think again.....