Water Softeners

grousedogtom

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

Thinking of getting the Clack water softener from The Water Treatment Centre installed for €670, including free drinking water tap for kitchen.

Anybody got this one? Happy with it, worth it?

Thanks.

Clack valves are excellent valves on water softeners, just ensure its the Clack ci value as oppose to the Clack tc valve

Its Clack TC, what wrong with this one?

grousedogtom

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

Its Clack TC, what wrong with this one?

Noting wrong with the tc but the ci will be more economical on salt as it works on a volume of water used basis over the tc works on a timed basis. The ci should be only about 50 euro more expensive, but will safe money on salt in the future

grousedogtom

grousedogtom wrote: »

Noting wrong with the tc but the ci will be more economical on salt as it works on a volume of water used basis over the tc works on a timed basis. The ci should be only about 50 euro more expensive, but will safe money on salt in the future

OK thanks, will enquire about that.

Now how about the salt content of the water, as these softeners use salt to filter.. Do the softeners add much salt to the water?

grousedogtom

rockdrummer4 wrote: »

OK thanks, will enquire about that.

Now how about the salt content of the water, as these softeners use salt to filter.. Do the softeners add much salt to the water?

They don't actually use salt to filter the water, the softening resin in the fibreglass vessel softens the water as the hard water passes through the resin bed the hard ions attach themselves to the resin which in turn needs to be washed periodically with the salt/water solution known as brime, the treated water will increase sodium levels, how much depends on various factors. Besides a drinking water tap taken direct from the incoming supply is usually fitted to cater for drinking purposes

dathi

the water softener replaces the calcium ion in hard water with a sodium ion and its the sodium ion which causes problems for anyone with high blood pressure . it makes little difference if you eat it as salt on food or drink it in softened water , the body still processes it as sodium.that's why softeners must be installed with the cold water tap in the kitchen sink bypassed

aah yes

dathi wrote: »

the water softener replaces the calcium ion in hard water with a sodium ion and its the sodium ion which causes problems for anyone with high blood pressure . it makes little difference if you eat it as salt on food or drink it in softened water , the body still processes it as sodium.that's why softeners must be installed with the cold water tap in the kitchen sink bypassed

Its a common misconception about sodium levels in softened water and the need for a hard tap ...

[from one of my previous postings last year] ..


There is no sodium chloride imparted into softened water, only a trace sodium level of around 100 ppm / mg/l
depending on original water hardness and background raw water sodium levels.

The strict EU, HSE and EPA sodium concentration in tap water is 200 ppm / mg/l

Bottled waters like the popular San Pellegrino have 130 ppm / mg/l

Supermarket milk has around 300 to 500 ppm / mg/l

Also there are zero chlorides in softened water, though the safe EU level is 250 ppm / mg/l


So if you want to adjust your blood pressure either up or down which elevated sodium in diets can do, not necessarily upwards as it has a nominal causal effect, then you want to increase dietary sodium above the daily 2,400 mg/l to above the national average of 3,200 mg/L.

To gain an increase of 800 mg/l in daily dietary sodium and risk blood pressure variations up or down, you would need to focus on drinking about 8 litres of softened water per day, and avoid all other beverages.

If you drink 50% of your daily water intake straight from the softened water tap, say 1 litre, then you would increase dietary sodium by around 100 mg which would be a higher than the average daily intake for potable water of 2 litres, and higher than we typically drink from the soft water tap, as most people drink a variety of beverages, so this scenario would only therefore increase your dietary sodium intake by about 4%.

Doctors are more concerned about adding salt to your food, the average we put on food is about 15% through the salt shaker daily.

Doctors are even more concerned about the level of sodium ingested through processed foods which make up a large part of the remaining 85% we consume from salty foods like popular cereals, cornflakes, soups, bread, ham, bacon etc.

Regular softened water drinkers, taking an average of maybe 1/2 a litre (2% daily sodium intake) compared to the high sodium levels in milk, and the range of other beverages such as carbonated drinks which contain much more, also lesser sodium beverages such as tea, coffee, fruit juice, wine, beer, etc, etc, means that softened water is a tiny proportion or on average of 50 mg as part of the 2,400 mg we are aiming for, or 50 mg as part of the average 3,200 mg we generally tend to take in.

Of course if you are not getting enough of the daily 2,400 mg sodium intake we need, and instead take in below, 2,000 mg, then even drinking 2 or 3 litres of softened water a day, will not be enough to make up the deficit we need, so you will have to eat more cornflakes !

Pixie Chief

Hi guys, we are considering this too as water is very hard. Not so concerned about drinking water as that is easily fixed with a filter but last house had a salt water softener and despite claims about a low level of salt, you could strongly and clearly taste it in the water and it caused some fairly serious skin issues for me (to be fair, have underlying issue) and so while we need a water softener as lime is so heavy am keen to get one which won't cause skin problems. Any ideas?

aah yes

Pixie Chief wrote: »

Hi guys, we are considering this too as water is very hard. Not so concerned about drinking water as that is easily fixed with a filter but last house had a salt water softener and despite claims about a low level of salt, you could strongly and clearly taste it in the water and it caused some fairly serious skin issues for me (to be fair, have underlying issue) and so while we need a water softener as lime is so heavy am keen to get one which won't cause skin problems. Any ideas?

Hard water is known to aggravate skin conditions like psoriasis and eczema, and skin generally as limescale gets into clothing during the wash process precipitating into hard scaly deposits within clothing fibres causing them to wear clothing out more prematurely and cause potential itching to the more delicate skin.

"A Purdue University study found that fabrics washed in hard water tend to wear out as much as 15 percent faster than fabrics washed in soft water." (They cite a paper entitled, "Benefits of Using Soft vs. Hard Water in Laundering Operations," Water Quality Research Council, Purdue University.)

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=472

"A study carried out in a Chicago YMCA laundry, found that softening the water supply increased the life of frequently washed household items such as sheets, pillow slips and bath towels by 20-40%."

http://saltassociation.co.uk/edible-salt/water-softening/water-softening-environment/


However soft water is clearly very soft and gentle on skin as it contains zero levels of sodium chloride (salt) and of course the hard water that was causing skin aggravation has also gone by softening water.

If a water softener (usually an older or cheaper brand) develops a fault and allows actual sodium chloride into the softened water stream then there is clearly a fault with the machine.

Check my previous post above and you should see that trace sodium levels harmless both to skin and for potability are at virtually none existent levels in softened water, i.e. trace level, or below 0.1% concentration.

Of course never anywhere near 1% concentrations or the 10% level found in brine solutions, and somewhere in-between (5% - 10%) - for sea water levels, (which of course you can bathe in without problems - but maybe you would not want to drink !)


also see

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

Pixie Chief

Thanks GWS, amazing post! Will have to do some more thinking about it and some pricing. Interesting that the clothes etc last so much longer with softened water as well as the appliances so obviously an appreciable saving over time there too. I don't have an skin disorder per se, I have an autoimmune disorder that affects skin so it is more of a systemic thing but I would imagine that similar rules apply?

I really, really want fancy fridge with filtered water and ice maker (I know, I know but just want it) and to achieve that will have to run filtered water to it as will otherwise destroy fridge over time and had been dead set against salt because of experiences. Will have to think again.....

Mr.Fred

Any opinions on these they seem to be very cheap.

http://www.water2buy.ie/water-softeners

aah yes

Looks like the starting pricing from €369 for a timer mini softener in the 10 litre + resin range with not an original Fleck 5600 timer valve but timer asian copy of the Fleck seems a bit steep, even with a filter set comprising of what looks like a $3 dollar caravan tap, and again what looks like a $5 dollar carbon cartridge with a bit of tubing.

I certainly would not recommend paying more than €199 for that wee collection, or really using a copy timer valve based mini system, especially on hard water long term.

There are metered original design / brand control valve operated softeners starting from €299 onwards, that would be light years better value, still patchy ground the mini softener market for harder waters nearer 400 ppm hardness for longer term use.

Going from bottom end low entry level timer mini, up to the highest branded system Clack metered softeners from 10 litre resin 8x17 units, you could expect to get a Clack from €399 or as low as €350 on sale from time to time.


When paying over €400 to €500 for a meter version of the Fleck 5600 asian copy meter valve mini cabinets, then really that looks like heavy pricing, again I expect these would be €199 to €299 at a push if sold at reasonable value, even then basic stuff.

damanloox

Does anybody know if any Irish installers do whole house salt-free systems...?

NIMAN

Celtic Water in Galway

Edit:sorry, I only noticed you asked for salt free. Do they not have to have salt?