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Leinster vs Connacht Saturday 7.45 tg4

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    I hope Marmion isnt involved for the 6N, let him develop at Connacht for now. His pass is still a bit floaty for test level IMO where your 10 has less time. Its improved massively since the JWC though where I thought it was a major weakness of his game. Great prospect and looks like a real natural decision maker which very few of our 9's are.

    My preferred scrumhalfs for the 6N would be Murray and Boss.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ouncer


    shuffol wrote: »
    I hope Marmion isnt involved for the 6N, let him develop at Connacht for now. His pass is still a bit floaty for test level IMO where your 10 has less time. Its improved massively since the JWC though where I thought it was a major weakness of his game. Great prospect and looks like a real natural decision maker which very few of our 9's are.

    My preferred scrumhalfs for the 6N would be Murray and Boss.


    totally agree. was at the game in the rds and boss was ten times better than marmion. i do believe that marmion has a lot to learn but has huge potential. he is nowhere near international standard just yet. i do think that boss is far better than reddan and murray for that matter.

    there are some really interesting decisions being made by irish management of recent times though which leads one to think that anything is possible. to put gilroy in front of mcfadden is totally weird. mcfadden imo is simply leaps and bounds ahead of gilroy. and again I am not trying to knock gilroy, he simply isn't up to international standard yet. for those that will argue that he has scored a bag of tries for the international team, the obvious answer is that he did that against two very poor teams. he would be totally exposed in the 6 nations.

    the one young player that has shown true international ability is simon zebo. watched this guy at u-20 level and it was obvious he could make the step. the others simply need more time to develop


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    ouncer wrote: »
    to put gilroy in front of mcfadden is totally weird. mcfadden imo is simply leaps and bounds ahead of gilroy. and again I am not trying to knock gilroy, he simply isn't up to international standard yet. for those that will argue that he has scored a bag of tries for the international team, the obvious answer is that he did that against two very poor teams. he would be totally exposed in the 6 nations.

    Gilroy gets a chance for the Leinster/Ulster v Munster/Connacht game - scores the opening try and plays brilliantly.
    Gilroy gets an opportunity for the u20s, one of the best players.
    Gilroy gets an opportunity for Ulster, scores 8 tries in his first season, a try in every game for his first 5? games.
    Gilroy gets an opportunity for the Wolfhounds against the Barbarians, is the best Irish player of the day, scoring a brace.
    Gilroy gets an opportunity again for the Wolfhounds against Fiji and gets a hat-trick and MOM.
    Gilroy gets an opportunity for Ireland against Argentina, scores a try and puts in a magnificent performance.

    As far as I'm concerned, Gilroy has nothing to prove. Every time he's given an opportunity at any level, he delivers in spades. McFadden is in storming form, but he's not as good a winger as either Gilroy or Zebo imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ouncer


    hagz, great answer :-). I don't for one second say that gilroy is not a really good player. him i also watched at u-20 level and he has a huge future. but if i were to put another ulster player in the international backline luke marshall is my man. 15 to 9 I go
    15 kearney
    14 bowe
    13 marshall
    12 mcsharry
    11 mcfadden
    10 sexton
    9 boss

    but like anybody its just an opinion :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    If the Irish team is to be picked on form, then McFadden must start on the wing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    tolosenc wrote: »
    If the Irish team is to be picked on form, then McFadden must start on the wing.

    He's been really excellent in the last few weeks but I just don't think he's ever going to be a starter for Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ouncer


    danthefan wrote: »
    He's been really excellent in the last few weeks but I just don't think he's ever going to be a starter for Ireland.

    since mcfadden has moved from centre to wing the guy has been a revelation. leinster have always had the problem of unavailability of players due to international reasons so mcfadden has been shoved into positions he simply was unsuitable for. now he has found his space 2013 is going to be a very good year for him.

    and truth be said mcfadden has been sensational for a lot more than the last 3 games


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    ouncer wrote: »
    since mcfadden has moved from centre to wing the guy has been a revelation. leinster have always had the problem of unavailability of players due to international reasons so mcfadden has been shoved into positions he simply was unsuitable for. now he has found his space 2013 is going to be a very good year for him.

    and truth be said mcfadden has been sensational for a lot more than the last 3 games

    He's been played on the wing a lot, going back several seasons. This isn't new.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    As great as he has been, he'll struggle to hold his place when Luke returns.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    ouncer wrote: »
    totally agree. was at the game in the rds and boss was ten times better than marmion. i do believe that marmion has a lot to learn but has huge potential. he is nowhere near international standard just yet. i do think that boss is far better than reddan and murray for that matter.

    I'm a Boss fan, but he makes big mistakes in games aswell. That crazy tap penalty against Connacht in his own half and a shocking box kick in Clermont come to mind.

    The Reddan/Boss axis works perfectly for Leinster though, and Boss in particular links very well with the likes of Ruddock and SOB around the fringes.

    I would have actually started Boss at home to Clermont too.

    For me, Marshall is the perfect bench option for Ireland though.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I think if Marshall has a strong summer tour he could take the bench spot. Until then id be very surprised if it wasnt Reddan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    I'm a huge fan of McFadden, and he's ideal for the 22/23 shirt, and I'd like to see him tried at 12 for Ireland. But I don't think he's got the same ability at test level as our other options on the wing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ouncer


    please specify other options that you feel he is not comparable to?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    ouncer wrote: »
    please specify other options that you feel he is not comparable to?

    Earls, Gilroy, Zebo, Bowe, Luke Fitz, would have a bit more about them at test level than McFadden on the wing..

    I think he could make a test level twelve, just a pity he hasn't been played there for Leinster in a while


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    I'm a huge fan of McFadden, and he's ideal for the 22/23 shirt, and I'd like to see him tried at 12 for Ireland. But I don't think he's got the same ability at test level as our other options on the wing

    Yeah I'd definitely agree with that, though he makes up for the lack of an X factor which the likes of Zebo, Gilroy, Fitz etc have with pure graft and intelligence.

    Personally I still think his position is 12, but I'd probably play the likes of the above three guys and Earls ahead of him.

    Not so sure on Trimble.

    An Irish bench (with POC fit) of:
    Kilcoyne, Strauss/Best, Bent, McCarthy, Henry, Marshall, Madigan, McFadden

    would give us some serious options.

    Will never happen in a million years though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Fishooks13


    Mcfadden has a leg drive like David Wallace, he's a solid defender and he's got great hands and pace to burn when he gets into space. He's got the tools to be a brilliant 12


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Fishooks13 wrote: »
    Mcfadden has a leg drive like David Wallace, he's a solid defender and he's got great hands and pace to burn when he gets into space. He's got the tools to be a brilliant 12

    Not so sure about the great hands, his passing isn't great tbh, though this is more telegraphed when he's at 13.

    Him and Darcy don't really work because of this, him and EOM could certainly work though.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    His hands are actually very good. He's good at both pop passes and longer passes. It was him who set Fitz free down the touchline against Bath with a lovely long pass. His awareness just sucks and he often doesn't see support runners. He's far too quick to put his head down. I had hoped that he would improve in that regard with consistent game time but that doesn't seem to be happening and that is what will always restrict him to being cover at international level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ouncer


    Not so sure about the great hands, his passing isn't great tbh, though this is more telegraphed when he's at 13.

    Him and Darcy don't really work because of this, him and EOM could certainly work though.


    really have to disagree. mcfadden was never a centre. this is my point . for you to compare him to other centre's makes no sense. he has proved himself as a winger and that is what he is


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    ouncer wrote: »
    really have to disagree. mcfadden was never a centre. this is my point . for you to compare him to other centre's makes no sense. he has proved himself as a winger and that is what he is

    He's a centre by trade, has been all the way up.
    More of a stand in winger than anything. Many see him as Darcy's ready made successor and he's played more at 12/13 than anywhere else.

    He was excellent at 12 in Cheika's last year with EOM at 13, and also had a few good cameos last year at 13, notably Bath.

    He won't be a winger when Fitz, Isa, DK and RK are back.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I thought Leinster played some awful dirge in the group stages last year with Madden at 13. They looked a lot better with McF at 12 and EOM at 13 (who I'm a big fan of).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    McFadden is wasted at 13 imo. He's all about running directly (which is kind of why Gilroy, Zebo and co. are better wingers). At 12 he can do what McSharry has been doing for Connacht this season. Get over the gainline.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I thought Leinster played some awful dirge in the group stages last year with Madden at 13. They looked a lot better with McF at 12 and EOM at 13 (who I'm a big fan of).

    Yeah I'd agree there, as I say him and Darcy don't really work, though for an away game in The Rec or Glasgow they were certainly solid. Thought he played well away in Bath iirc, and had a great game as you said at home in the Aviva. Think he was at 12 that day wasn't he?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He played 12 in all the home games. I think the difference in performance between home and away was partly McF moving to 12 and partly EOM moving to 13. EOM is a much better 13 - runs better lines and has much better distribution. McFadden is a good heads down, truck the ball up centre. With playmakers around him he can be very effective at 12.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He played 12 in all the home games. I think the difference in performance between home and away was partly McF moving to 12 and partly EOM moving to 13. EOM is a much better 13 - runs better lines and has much better distribution. McFadden is a good heads down, truck the ball up centre. With playmakers around him he can be very effective at 12.

    Definitely played wing against Montpellier at home anyway, and it was D'arcy that was 12 against Glasgow at home too iirc.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I thought Leinster played some awful dirge in the group stages last year with Madden at 13. They looked a lot better with McF at 12 and EOM at 13 (who I'm a big fan of).
    They looked far more organised with D'Arcy and McFadden at 12/13 than they did this season. And EOM was able to do so much damage coming into the game.

    They certainly werent playing dirge. They were just setting themselves up to play smart rugby in a way they couldnt this season.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Definitely played wing against Montpellier at home anyway, and it was D'arcy that was 12 against Glasgow at home too iirc.

    Ah yes you're right. I knew he didn't play 13 but wasn't really sure where he played.

    Perhaps dirge is a bit harsh, but D'Arcy/McFadden just kills any ball. I know what they were going for in terms of keeping things tight and just winning the game but they were a completely different team with EOM at 13.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    ouncer wrote: »
    really have to disagree. mcfadden was never a centre. this is my point . for you to compare him to other centre's makes no sense. he has proved himself as a winger and that is what he is

    Couldn't disagree more to be honest. He is in good form but still isn't a natural winger and it shows. Looks for contact and puts his head down far too often. He is a 12 all day long, and in a fully fit squad will not be starting wing for either Leinster or Ireland.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭Higher


    Excited to have EOM back, I reckon hes BOD successor. Maybe I'm being too kind but hes probably the only Irish player currently who can actually step like BOD in his heydey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Higher wrote: »
    Excited to have EOM back, I reckon hes BOD successor. Maybe I'm being too kind but hes probably the only Irish player currently who can actually step like BOD in his heydey.

    Craig Gilroy is more elusive than O'Malley.

    But you could be talking about 13s


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Craig Gilroy is more elusive than O'Malley.

    But you could be talking about 13s

    I dunno. Defenders seem to get to Gilroy, and then he just appears the other side of the tackle, like he's covered in oil or something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    They looked far more organised with D'Arcy and McFadden at 12/13 than they did this season. And EOM was able to do so much damage coming into the game.

    They certainly werent playing dirge. They were just setting themselves up to play smart rugby in a way they couldnt this season.

    We were also far more free flowing in attack when playing at home, in some of the home games we were really, really incisive.

    Not saying O'Malley the only reason why we played better at home, the likes of Healy and Reddan helped us going forward, and obviously we were at home, but I think he was a significant factor in why our attacking play was better those games.

    You could also say the gameplan was different, but one of the main reasons why it was different is that we had a very good distributor at 13.


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