Do people enjoy their own weddings?

Whispered

lazygal wrote: »

I won't care either. But I'd hate my loved ones left behind to have to sit through a sham sendoff ceremony just because its seen as 'how things are done'.

And what if the sham ceremony was something that would bring comfort to your family?

lazygal

Whispered wrote: »

And what if the sham ceremony was something that would bring comfort to your family?

Well I won't be there to care. But I know most of my close friends and much of my family would wonder why my sendoff was done by the representative of an institution I had no respect for in life. And I'd hate to think of my loved ones having to sit through a boring mass. Luckily my husband and/or child (ren) know my wishes and won't be having such a sham ceremony.

meeeeh

I've been to some non religious funerals and I found them a bit short and lacking in atmosphere. In the same way it's perfectly understandable why people decide for church wedding. They have more sense of occasion.

tomthetank

lazygal wrote: »

just because its seen as 'how things are done'.

That's how I feel about church weddings.

I'm late 20s and it's like the dawn of the 'wedding years' in my life with the amount of friends getting hitched, and it just irks me that no thought, consideration or creativity is put into deciding on the venue, location or how to insert personal meaning into the ceremony that aligns itself with each of the respective couples. It's just 'church wedding' - which means a religious ceremony, something that many of them have dismissed and bemoaned and mocked for as long as I've known them.

I just find it so hypocritical and disrespectful, to feel the right to lambast the church and its teachings, frown upon it as an institution and then cherry-pick which traditions fit your needs and which don't when it comes down to it.

OF COURSE it's easier to get married in a church, it's a crowd pleaser, it doesn't put any family noses out of joint...yada yada. But, now call me naive, but shouldn't the wedding day be primarily about the couple's vows to each other and what they actually mean, and not about doing the simplest thing for the sake of an easy life?

Sleepy

pwurple wrote: »

Keep an open mind and maybe understand that faith means different things to different people.

Catholicism disagrees: one of it's central tenets is that Catholics believe what their clergy tell them to, adherents don't have the right to have their own version of faith.

A la carte Catholics are realistically some form of Protestant but try explain that to them and see what kind of reaction you get!

Squ

People go on about church weddings as if its the be all and end all..

Its 45mins out of the whole day..

confusticated

Squ wrote: »

People go on about church weddings as if its the be all and end all..

Its 45mins out of the whole day..

But it's the point of the whole day, whether in a church or not.

Whispered

I'm actually going to bow out of this conversation now because it's upsetting me more than a chat with a bunch of internet ppl should!

I'll just finish by saying that we had our wedding planned, abroad, just the two of us. In the space of a few months we lost a few close family members. Because of this we changed our plans to include a ceremony at home in our parish, in a way which we knew would bring some happiness to our families. It was NOT doing things for an easy life (as I said everything was already booked), it was not a "sham wedding", it was not doing things because that "is how they are usually done".

I am not an athiest nor am I a strict catholic. However, I was very very grateful to the church and the community based around the church for the help and comfort some members of my family got when we were going through a horrible phase of our lives.

While you might think that my way was a sham, I think saying that a wedding is just about the bride and groom is selfish. You have the rest of your life to be married, your wedding is one day. Is there anything wrong with taking other people into consideration?

Squ

confusticated wrote: »

But it's the point of the whole day, whether in a church or not.

Suppose it depends on your perspective, but the point of our day was not the church, Im in it for the marriage, not the wedding.

lazygal

Whispered wrote: »

I think saying that a wedding is just about the bride and groom is selfish. You have the rest of your life to be married, your wedding is one day. Is there anything wrong with taking other people into consideration?

I totally disagree. A wedding, much like a marriage, is about the two people marrying eachother. I think planning a wedding is like a trial run for a marriage. I've seen people give into pressure from parents about aspects of their wedding, only to then give in on things like where they should live, where they should spend Christmas, where the children should go to school and other things a couple should be deciding themselves. I've seen this happen to a very close relative and we decided, having seen what happened in that case where they were expected to give in to avoid a row or sending an adult aged in their 60s into a sulk, there was no way our parents were going to dictate to us, their adult children, about our wedding or indeed any other aspect of our lives together. We do take other people into account, but we're not a pushover. I also expect my views to be taken into account by our extended families. Respect and consideration is a two way street, despite the emotional pressure often applied by parents.

Whispered

lazygal wrote: »

A wedding, much like a marriage, is about the two people marrying eachother. I think planning a wedding is like a trial run for a marriage.

That is where we differ then. For me my wedding was nothing more than a means to an end. 2 years on and my husband is my husband and my wedding is a distant memory.

pwurple

Whispered wrote: »

While you might think that my way was a sham, I think saying that a wedding is just about the bride and groom is selfish. You have the rest of your life to be married, your wedding is one day. Is there anything wrong with taking other people into consideration?

I am exactly on the same page as you Whispered. Other people's opinions and feelings, especially your family, do matter.

I'm delighted you have a respectful relationship with the people around you. It means they probably have the same respect for you.

confusticated

Squ wrote: »

Suppose it depends on your perspective, but the point of our day was not the church, Im in it for the marriage, not the wedding.

I meant that actually getting married was the point, it's what makes it different to just having a big party. Whether that was in the church or not makes no difference to me at all. I think we might be saying the same thing here, that getting married is the point rather than having a big day out? Sorry if I'm off on that!

The Big Red Button

pwurple wrote: »

I am exactly on the same page as you Whispered. Other people's opinions and feelings, especially your family, do matter.

I'm delighted you have a respectful relationship with the people around you. It means they probably have the same respect for you.

I respect the beliefs of my friends and my family members. If they choose to get married in a Catholic church, I will always respect this, I will attend. It's not my place to judge whether they're 'real' or 'a la carte' Catholics; honestly, I don't even care. I really don't.

If I ever get married, it'll be a non-religious ceremony, as I am not religious.

I respect others' beliefs; I expect the same respect in return.

My parents are Catholics (real Catholics, who attend mass every Sunday.) They will be disappointed in my decision to have a non-religious wedding.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should partake in a Catholic ceremony for the sake of my parents, out of respect for them, even though I think it's all a load of bollocks?

Surely, if anything, that shows absolute disrespect for everything they believe in?

Whispered

chatterpillar wrote: »

I respect the beliefs of my friends and my family members. If they choose to get married in a Catholic church, I will always respect this, I will attend. It's not my place to judge whether they're 'real' or 'a la carte' Catholics; honestly, I don't even care. I really don't.

I think it is covered in your quote. You should get married in any way you want, of course, and you should respect the decision of others to do the same. Which based on your above quote you do.

It is quite insulting to have people say your wedding is a sham, was planned because it was the easiest thing to do, was done because of pressure put on by others, was done because it is how things are usually done etc. All this said by people who don't know the first thing about the circumstances involved or reasons for the decisions.

Even if the decision is based on something as superficial as "I've always wanted a big white wedding in a pretty church". Well that is their decision to make and it's not for anybody else to judge that. (as you said chatterpillar)

tomthetank

Whispered wrote: »

It is quite insulting to have people say your wedding is a sham,

I don't think anyone here has said that though?

As far as I'm concerned, no marriage based on love is a sham. A sham marriage would be one committed for the wrong reasons; money, fear, obtaining a visa, etc.

I'm just coming from the perspective of a frequent wedding-goer who is finding herself increasingly frustrated with the same weddings in the same churches with the same religious ceremonies that I know for a fact none of the brides or grooms have believed in or attended or worshipped at or respected for most of their adult lives and have been quite vocal about that, up until the Big White Wedding Day.

I'm just challenging a notion that seems to be typical of many facets of Irish life, 'ah sure don't want to upset the neighbours', that I personally think is quite dangerous when it comes to important parts of society that may be in need of reform - politics, or yes, religion.

Following tradition for the sake of it despite a belief to the contrary of where that tradition was born seems to me to not be true to oneself, maybe comparable to voting for a particular political party without exercising any critical thinking because that's the way your family always voted.

Whispered

tomthetank wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, no marriage based on love is a sham. A sham marriage would be one committed for the wrong reasons; money, fear, obtaining a visa, etc.

I specifically said wedding rather than marriage because I totally agree with you. A wedding does not make the marriage, yet it's been said on the thread that the wedding is a trial run for marriage and people keep on suggesting that someone would choose to have a wedding in a church (with no strong beliefs) simply due to pressure from family or for an easy life etc. This is not always the case. Even if it is the case, well so be it.

tomthetank wrote: »

I'm just coming from the perspective of a frequent wedding-goer who is finding herself increasingly frustrated with the same weddings in the same churches with the same religious ceremonies that I know for a fact none of the brides or grooms have believed in or attended or worshipped at or respected for most of their adult lives and have been quite vocal about that, up until the Big White Wedding Day.

But why do you care enough for other peoples weddings to frustrate you? You don't get any say in how they plan their weddings so maybe just relax and enjoy the day, or if it so frustrating to you, make your excuses and don't go. I wouldn't like to think of a guest sitting at my wedding feeling frustrated and looking at us thinking bad things rather than wishing us well on our wedding day.

tomthetank wrote: »

Following tradition for the sake of it despite a belief to the contrary of where that tradition was born seems to me to not be true to oneself, maybe comparable to voting for a particular political party without exercising any critical thinking because that's the way your family always voted.

You don't know why people made the decision to have their weddings as they did in the majority of cases. Maybe they have thought about it, discussed it and decided to have it a certain way for reasons half the guests don't know about. Maybe the bride wants a big white wedding in a pretty church and that's as far as their thinking goes. That's fair enough, it's up to them to make that decision.

You can of course employ all the critical thinking you want for your own wedding, I'm sure it would be different, unique and special and I genuinely hope your guests are happy for you to have you wedding day as you want to have it.

pwurple

chatterpillar wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that I should partake in a Catholic ceremony for the sake of my parents, out of respect for them, even though I think it's all a load of bollocks?

Of course not. But I hope you would also not insult another couples wedding by saying that it makes you "SICK" if they were not regular enough church goers for your standards.

That is what I was addressing in this thread... It's only 15 or 20 posts back. I wouldn't give two hoots about whatever choice you made, or for whatever reason. But to turn up to someones wedding and then say it made you sick. yikes. Maybe they wanted to make their recently widowed dad happy by having it in a church? Maybe they actually are a bit religious, and were just fitting in with a gang of mates saying they were not. who knows, who cares, it is personal and none of our business.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Eviledna

Whispered wrote: »

Even if the decision is based on something as superficial as "I've always wanted a big white wedding in a pretty church". Well that is their decision to make and it's not for anybody else to judge that. (as you said chatterpillar)

This. One thing that really is the height of hypocrisy is non-religious people getting on their high horse about other people's diluted, half baked, ala carte [insert derogatory name here] approaches to a wedding. To me dictating to others on how they should therefore declare their stance in a non-religious ceremony is as bad as fundamentalist religious people saying they'll go to hell for it! IMO, it's neither Christian if that applies, or secular if that applies, to judge either way. If you don't care about the religon, why should you care if someone takes a wholly half assed approach to it? Not everyone needs to fight to be recognised as atheist/agnostic/non religious.

There are many people, like me, who are very conflicted about how the feel about the church. On one hand, they grew up with it and their notion of a wedding day involves it, as it is all they ever knew and is baked into their expectations/dreams of the day. On the other hand, they are disgusted and appalled by the scandals in the church, their attitude to women, etc. But they still feel connected to some/most of the Christian teachings, and possibly even the buildings from their childhood. An alternate wedding e.g. Humanist would not be quite the same, civil ceremony too secular etc. There are many people who feel this way. So they put up with the parts they disagree with because there is no other option to make real what they really want for their wedding day.

It's far too simplistic to say if you don't believe then don't sign up, because there is no 50/50 option, it's all or nothing, no supply to match this demand. There should be, but there isn't. So to judge conflicted people in that way, particularly if you aren't even frigging religious yourself, is just, well, ridiculous.

beks101

The most beautiful wedding I ever went to was last summer in Colorado.

We all stayed overnight in one of the bridesmaid's cabins in the mountains and the wedding took place in front of a beautiful lake on the foothills of Colorado Springs in blistering 35 degree heat. The bride and groom spent many summers at the lakehouse so it had a really personal meaning to them, as well as being just breathtakingly beautiful.

They set out deck chairs for the guests, played a song by The Cure as the bride walked down the makeshift little aisle towards the lake (the song that was playing in the bar the night they first kissed), they read self-penned memories and vows to each other and the bride's brother married them. There wasn't a dry eye in the house!

That's the sort of wedding I'd like to envisage for myself (if I ever get married, which right now seems like a hilarious idea, being single and all ) - a deeply personal celebration of our relationship, a ceremony riddled with personal songs and memories and people that we love at a location that is special to the both of us. That might be the local church in Galway where I was raised; his local parish church; a local registry office; nearby beach; who knows. I'm not religious but the church where I grew up in Salthill holds a lot of sentimental value, with all the time I spent there as a child, I grew up there in a sense so I'd never rule it, or any church out.

Live and let live really. You wedding should really be about you and your partner and what makes you both comfortable and happy, and of course the reality of budget restrictions is going to play a role too.

I think the stress of a wedding in unavoidable really, but you'll get that when you're organizing any big event. If I felt like that pressure was going to override my happiness and the specialness of the day, I think the whole event would begin to seem a bit futile and self-defeating. I want to be smiling widely on the 'happiest day of my life', I want to feel loved and overjoyed and excited and special. If inviting 200 people was going to stress me unduly, I think I'd have to reconsider that guest list and go with something a bit more manageable.

lazygal

pwurple wrote: »

Of course not. But I hope you would also not insult another couples wedding by saying that it makes you "SICK" if they were not regular enough church goers for your standards.

That is what I was addressing in this thread... It's only 15 or 20 posts back. I wouldn't give two hoots about whatever choice you made, or for whatever reason. But to turn up to someones wedding and then say it made you sick. yikes. Maybe they wanted to make their recently widowed dad happy by having it in a church? Maybe they actually are a bit religious, and were just fitting in with a gang of mates saying they were not. who knows, who cares, it is personal and none of our business.

I didn't say such weddings made me sick, I said I'm sick of such weddings, its an entirely different thing. I've been to loads of weddings over the past few years, most of which were religious, and none of the couples were in any way religious. One groom had done count me out, but still went ahead with a church wedding. Another couple married on the sly in Vegas but their parents kicked up such a fuss they had a full white church wedding when they got home.

My parents are as a la carte Catholics as most Irish people. They like the nice building and the ceremonial bits, but don't want to think about the church's stance on women, abortion, gay rights or contraception. So I've little or no time for people like them who say they are 'spiritual' or want something 'meaningful' for life's big events and then ask a man from a church they don't follow to preside over such ceremonies.

krudler

lazygal wrote: »

I didn't say such weddings made me sick, I said I'm sick of such weddings, its an entirely different thing. I've been to loads of weddings over the past few years, most of which were religious, and none of the couples were in any way religious. One groom had done count me out, but still went ahead with a church wedding. Another couple married on the sly in Vegas but their parents kicked up such a fuss they had a full white church wedding when they got home.

My parents are as a la carte Catholics as most Irish people. They like the nice building and the ceremonial bits, but don't want to think about the church's stance on women, abortion, gay rights or contraception. So I've little or no time for people like them who say they are 'spiritual' or want something 'meaningful' for life's big events and then ask a man from a church they don't follow to preside over such ceremonies.

I didn't think you could if you had done the count me out thing, I tried to do it but since they changed the canon law you can't anymore, sneaky feckers.

username123

I had a civil ceremony only, no religious aspects. The vows were handwritten and really meant a lot to both of us. It would have diminished my wedding vows to be making promises to a god I dont believe exists and making promises to raise children in a religion that I dont agree with. For me, in my wedding ceremony, to promise things in the eyes of god would have had no meaning.

I know plenty of people who are non religious who have had religious ceremonies. I dont know how they can take their vows seriously given that they are saying them in the eyes of a god they have previously purported not to believe in. Perhaps they had conversions, perhaps they never didnt believe, but certainly, for anyone who really doesnt believe, it doesnt make sense. It was a solemn occasion for me where I spoke words I truly meant and made promises I truly and wholeheartedly meant. For me, it would have tarnished it all to add in non meaningful bits. But thats just me.

username123

krudler wrote: »

I didn't think you could if you had done the count me out thing....

Ah you can yeah, sure they marry non catholics to catholics in religious ceremonies, so long as you promise the children to the catholic god youre laughing.

angeldelight

Yes! I got married a few months ago and I had so much fun, I would do it all again in a heartbeat. I generally hate having attention on myself, so didn't have an 18th/21st etc but we had an engagement party as our wedding was going to be >2 years from our engagement and I loved it because the attention was on us, rather than just me. It was great as it meant I could look forward to the wedding rather than be dreading that aspect of it.

We chose not to have a catholic service, we got married in the Unitarian Church after attending quite a few of their Sunday services and making sure we were comfortable with their ethos. It was a beautiful service and really touched us both on the day.

I have never enjoyed 24 hours of my life so much

Sleepy

Whispered wrote: »

Even if the decision is based on something as superficial as "I've always wanted a big white wedding in a pretty church". Well that is their decision to make and it's not for anybody else to judge that. (as you said chatterpillar)

As much as I don't believe the organisation deserves any respect do you not think such behavior makes an absolute mockery of those present who do believe in the religion?

Eviledna wrote: »

There are many people who feel this way. So they put up with the parts they disagree with because there is no other option to make real what they really want for their wedding day.

It's far too simplistic to say if you don't believe then don't sign up, because there is no 50/50 option, it's all or nothing, no supply to match this demand. There should be, but there isn't. So to judge conflicted people in that way, particularly if you aren't even frigging religious yourself, is just, well, ridiculous.

I'll answer that one with a picture:


The Unitarian Church in Dublin. IMO, it's the perfect place for those who still hold Christian beliefs but disagree with Catholic homophobia, sexism, defense of pedophiles etc. to be married in a beautiful church.

As an atheist, it wouldn't be for me but I suspect we'll see far more of these churches popping up around the country as Irish "Catholics" come to realise they're nothing of the sort.

angeldelight

Sleepy wrote: »

The Unitarian Church in Dublin. IMO, it's the perfect place for those who still hold Christian beliefs but disagree with Catholic homophobia, sexism, defense of pedophiles etc. to be married in a beautiful church.

As an atheist, it wouldn't be for me but I suspect we'll see far more of these churches popping up around the country as Irish "Catholics" come to realise they're nothing of the sort.

My husband is an atheist, and the Unitarian Church suited him perfectly. I'm not turning into one of those people who believes the choice they made is the best one (although it was for us) and everyone else HAS to go there but for anyone reading the thread I wouldn't discount it without going to one or two of their services. Their ethos is that it's for people who believe in any God or none, and everything is done on an intellectual level rather than any sort of blind faith system. We were also able to customise our service to our liking, and there was no religious aspect to it - it was all about love, friendship and living life as good people

pwurple

Sleepy wrote: »

As much as I don't believe the organisation deserves any respect do you not think such behavior makes an absolute mockery of those present who do believe in the religion?

I don't think so. I think catholicism in Ireland (and mexico, and various other parts of the world) is approaching what being jewish has become for some. Cultural, part of our heritage. Do you think Woody Allen goes to temple? Yet he is seen almost as a prototypical jewish man.

krudler

pwurple wrote: »

I don't think so. I think catholicism in Ireland (and mexico, and various other parts of the world) is approaching what being jewish has become for some. Cultural, part of our heritage. Do you think Woody Allen goes to temple? Yet he is seen almost as a prototypical jewish man.

I was raised Catholic, baptised, communion, confirmation, all that guff, and dont consider myself a Catholic, havent for years. I dont go to mass, think the church is archaic and spews some vile stuff about certain groups of society, definitely wouldn't tick Catholic on a census, yet some people who feel the same do. People do need to realise that being a Catholic does require you believe and follow in specific things, its not purely cultural.

If, and its a massive if, I ever got married (if anyone would have me :pac: ) It wouldn't be in a catholic church, I couldn't justify standing there pledging myself to someone in front of a god I don't believe in before a man I have nothing but contempt for the organisation he works for.

pwurple

People don't "need to realise" anything of the sort. Live and let live my friend.

Whispered

username123 wrote: »

I dont know how they can take their vows seriously given that they are saying them in the eyes of a god they have previously purported not to believe in. Perhaps they had conversions, perhaps they never didnt believe, but certainly, for anyone who really doesnt believe, it doesnt make sense. It was a solemn occasion for me where I spoke words I truly meant and made promises I truly and wholeheartedly meant. For me, it would have tarnished it all to add in non meaningful bits. But thats just me.

You know you don't have to include things about children in your vows? At least we didn't. We also made our vows in front of our family and friends, this was part of the vows. For the record my husband and I take our vows very seriously. Although I don't think you were suggesting otherwise?

Obviously if it means nothing to you it would be a terrible idea to go ahead and do it. We are both incredibly private about things and writing our own vows would be both of our idea of hell.

Sleepy wrote: »

As much as I don't believe the organisation deserves any respect do you not think such behavior makes an absolute mockery of those present who do believe in the religion?

Honestly I don't think so. It's none of anybodies business in my opinion. Although we were honest with the priest about everything.

I did feel very sorry for the priest. He's on call 24/7 with very little support. I can only imagine how lonely a life it is.

Anyway, to get back on topic, yes I enjoyed my wedding day, although I was on medication and don't remember a lot of it. :rolleyes: I do remember my husband accidently putting his hand on my ass while standing at the alter and me getting really embarrassed.

krudler

pwurple wrote: »

People don't "need to realise" anything of the sort. Live and let live my friend.

do you even know the tenets of Catholicism?

meeeeh

username123 wrote: »

I had a civil ceremony only, no religious aspects. The vows were handwritten and really meant a lot to both of us. It would have diminished my wedding vows to be making promises to a god I dont believe exists and making promises to raise children in a religion that I dont agree with. For me, in my wedding ceremony, to promise things in the eyes of god would have had no meaning.

I know plenty of people who are non religious who have had religious ceremonies. I dont know how they can take their vows seriously given that they are saying them in the eyes of a god they have previously purported not to believe in. Perhaps they had conversions, perhaps they never didnt believe, but certainly, for anyone who really doesnt believe, it doesnt make sense. It was a solemn occasion for me where I spoke words I truly meant and made promises I truly and wholeheartedly meant. For me, it would have tarnished it all to add in non meaningful bits. But thats just me.

I take my commitment to my partner as seriously without being married. I don't need a piece of paper to confirm my love. I'd do whatever ceremony would be the handiest, would make me and my partner and possibly even others happy. I actually think that people who need a ceremony to cement their relationship probably shouldn't get married. Wedding should be celebration of love (+ additional administrative benefits) and not a safety net or a contract with set of wovs to tie somebody to you. And celebration really can be done in whatever way you want.

username123

meeeeh wrote: »

I take my commitment to my partner as seriously without being married. I don't need a piece of paper to confirm my love. I'd do whatever ceremony would be the handiest, would make me and my partner and possibly even others happy. I actually think that people who need a ceremony to cement their relationship probably shouldn't get married. Wedding should be celebration of love (+ additional administrative benefits) and not a safety net or a contract with set of wovs to tie somebody to you. And celebration really can be done in whatever way you want.

You seem to be missing my point. I totally agree that commitment can be taken seriously without being married, and celebrations can be done in whatever way one chooses. But we did decide to marry and to have a legally binding ceremony, it is a legal and moral contract. And there is no way I would have done that ceremony making false promises. Thats all. I took it seriously. I am delighted for people for whom the promises about raising children catholic and doing things in the face of god are not false, but for me it would have been a sham to say words I didnt mean in front of a man representing an organisation I despise and a god I dont believe in.

I celebrate my love everyday and dont need a wedding to prove it, we eloped and married with just us and two strangers as legal witnesses, I didnt need a party to prove my love. But seeing as we are discussing weddings, my 2 cents is that if the words are false people are making a mockery of what I consider to be a serious ceremony to stand there in front of a priest and say them - if they are not true catholics.

username123

Whispered wrote: »

You know you don't have to include things about children in your vows? At least we didn't. We also made our vows in front of our family and friends, this was part of the vows. For the record my husband and I take our vows very seriously. Although I don't think you were suggesting otherwise?

Obviously if it means nothing to you it would be a terrible idea to go ahead and do it. We are both incredibly private about things and writing our own vows would be both of our idea of hell.

Ive never heard of a catholic marriage that didnt include the promise to raise children catholic actually - thats interesting.

I am not disputing anyone taking their own vows seriously, simply that I personally wouldnt have been able to say non meaningless words during my own ceremony because it would have cheapened it for me. I do not understand how people who have previously stated they do not believe in god square the circle of saying their vows in the face of a god they said they didnt believe in, but thats their own business. I just wouldnt do it.

Vojera

meeeeh wrote: »

I take my commitment to my partner as seriously without being married. I don't need a piece of paper to confirm my love. I'd do whatever ceremony would be the handiest, would make me and my partner and possibly even others happy. I actually think that people who need a ceremony to cement their relationship probably shouldn't get married. Wedding should be celebration of love (+ additional administrative benefits) and not a safety net or a contract with set of wovs to tie somebody to you.

I feel that getting married is very important to me. I don't feel that it will "cement" my relationship with my partner; I already feel completely secure with her. I don't think that being married is any more of a guarantee of being together forever than any informal commitment we've already made to each other. In that way, we don't "need" a wedding.

However, marriage has some very important practical aspects that make it a priority for us. The ability to make medical decisions for each other and guaranteed inheritance rights if one of us dies (wills can be challenged) are just two things that cannot be overlooked. And when kids come into the equation it will become even more complex (although as a lesbian couple we'll have to make quite a few more arrangements to make up for the lack of legal recognition of our family unit).

So for many people, getting married isn't a sign of a lack of confidence, it's a very practical decision. I do understand where you're coming from, though, that there are some people who think that getting married will somehow magically keep them together where they have doubts, and in that case they need to look at why they feel that way, rather than slapping on bandage in the form of a wedding.

Whispered

username123 wrote: »

Ive never heard of a catholic marriage that didnt include the promise to raise children catholic actually - thats interesting.

I am not disputing anyone taking their own vows seriously, simply that I personally wouldnt have been able to say non meaningless words during my own ceremony because it would have cheapened it for me. I do not understand how people who have previously stated they do not believe in god square the circle of saying their vows in the face of a god they said they didnt believe in, but thats their own business. I just wouldnt do it.

Yep, we've decided that we're not having kids, so the idea of including kids in our vows didn't sit right with us, so we left it out. I don't remember the vows exactly, and with us both being quite shy, we only did the "I do" bit. But our vows were to each other, as in the questions asked were about promises to each other. We were given a list and told we could choose the vows, we could add some if we wanted too (we didn't want to).

We were also told by the priest that Marriage is the only sacrament given by a person to another. He explained that every other sacrament (christening, funeral, communion etc) is a gift given from god, where as marriage is a gift given from one person to the other. I thought that was a nice thing and that meant a lot to us.

We also appreciated the fact that getting married in a church would make our families happy and the priest made a mention of our family members whom we had lost and I know it meant a lot to their spouses and kids. It may have meant little to some friends, but for us it was important. (It is important to point out that at no stage were we expected or asked to have it in a church, we made that decision ourselves).

meeeeh

I'm not opposed to wedding, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be used to make people to stick to the vows they already should be sticking too anyway. I just think that the partner you love and plan to spend your life with should deserves the same commitment married or not. Wedding for me is just to confirm officially what you already have. As for wovs I should clarify that I dislike making grand or even personal speaches but that diesn't mean I am any less serious about the relationship. And sometimes words can be very cheap and it's actions that matter. So no I don't overly pay attention to actual wording of the ceremony.

Whispered

meeeeh wrote: »

. As for wovs I should clarify that I dislike making grand or even personal speaches but that diesn't mean I am any less serious about the relationship.

Same. I spent my poor husbands entire speech beetroot red

eviltwin

I planned my wedding round what myself and himself wanted. The wishes of our family never came into it.

My family in particular are devout Catholics so it was assumed I would get married in a church despite being atheist. I had my wedding in the registry office in Dublin and because of that my mother chose not to go which hurt but ultimately my husband is my family now and I need to put him and us first.

I would have felt like a fool having a church wedding anyway with our daughter standing there.

But I have been to many a church wedding where the couple never go to mass and while I can understand the way some people feel about it being "hypocritical" to me its just a venue so no harm. I would just be wary of people doing it for a quiet life re old fashioned parents because I think it sets up a precedent if you have kids. You do need to find the balance between trying to make people happy with being true to yourself.

username123

meeeeh wrote: »

And sometimes words can be very cheap and it's actions that matter.

This is also very true and probably yet another reason I wouldnt have had a catholic wedding, I simply wouldnt want to give support to the organisation through my actions of getting married under their roof, paying for use of the building, having other people come and sit there etc.... Even if I was ok with meaningless words - I wouldnt be ok with the action of marrying in a catholic church.

I find it more and more difficult to attend weddings/funerals/christenings tbh, the older I get the more the entire organisation fills me with disgust. I have skipped a couple of church wedding ceremonies and just gone directly to the reception, once by accident (simply delayed), but another time deliberately (I didnt know the couple, they wouldnt have noticed - it was the grooms father invited us). I am just not comfortable giving the catholic church any support by my presence anymore. Sorry, going a bit off topic, but I am coming round to just not attending things in churches at all - I think maybe funerals are what stops me making a full withdrawal.

username123

Whispered wrote: »

Same. I spent my poor husbands entire speech beetroot red

I found the vows exchange difficult as well. Very personal words to speak aloud in the daylight as it were!!! Lots of tears. Luckily no audience bar 2 stranger witnesses!!!

confuseddotcom

krudler wrote: »

do you even know the tenets of Catholicism?

Still and all, knowledge or lack-there-of, live and let live!

Sleepy

confuseddotcom wrote: »

Still and all, knowledge or lack-there-of, live and let live!

It's hard to live and let live when the other person is having a negative impact on your life.

Catholicism has a virtual stranglehold on the education system in this country. My daughter ended up playing Mary in the Nativity this year. We were invited to a "Christmas Concert" by her (non religious affiliated) Playschool, not a religious re-enactment. By the time we found out what was going on it was too late to do anything about it.

She'll be attending a COI primary school because there's no Educate Together within walking distance or public transport link of our home (my fianceé doesn't drive and work prevents me from being able to do the school runs) and I find members of that church to be less ignorant of their own faith than Catholics and (possibly as a result of this?) more tolerant of those who don't share it.

Catholics are, very clearly from what I can, a very small minority in this country and as a group they are quite literally dying out. A la carte or Cultural Catholics make up the majority of those checking the box on the census and their lie (to themselves as well as to the census taker) is the reason my daughter's education will be contaminated by indoctrination.

I'll be quite happy to live and let live when our country is secular: when religion is, correctly, treated as the personal belief that it is and the indoctrination of children is done in their parents own time. I'd still probably have an issue with child cruelty due to their parents religious beliefs (mutilation of male children, denial of essential blood transfusions etc.) but these aren't really charges that can be levied at the Catholic Church.

pwurple

Sleepy wrote: »

My daughter ended up playing Mary in the Nativity this year.

The Horror!

We were invited to a "Christmas Concert" by her (non religious affiliated) Playschool

And at a christian festival celebration no less... I can't get over my shock, how could they.

You are making my argument for me here. It is part of our culture.

awec

This post has been deleted.

eviltwin

pwurple wrote: »

The Horror!

And at a christian festival celebration no less... I can't get over my shock, how could they.

You are making my argument for me here. It is part of our culture.

Thats the problem right there. Religion should never be part of a countries culture, it should be something that is private.

meeeeh

Sleepy wrote: »

Catholics are, very clearly from what I can, a very small minority in this country and as a group they are quite literally dying out. A la carte or Cultural Catholics make up the majority of those checking the box on the census and their lie (to themselves as well as to the census taker) is the reason my daughter's education will be contaminated by indoctrination.

I'll be quite happy to live and let live when our country is secular: when religion is, correctly, treated as the personal belief that it is and the indoctrination of children is done in their parents own time. I'd still probably have an issue with child cruelty due to their parents religious beliefs (mutilation of male children, denial of essential blood transfusions etc.) but these aren't really charges that can be levied at the Catholic Church.

Blame the government ad people electing them. Besides it also seems the matter of supply and demand. If you feel strongly enough about the issue then your wife should learn to drive. But it's easier to blame those who go to mass every so often.

krudler

pwurple wrote: »

The Horror!

And at a christian festival celebration no less... I can't get over my shock, how could they.

You are making my argument for me here. It is part of our culture.

Well if you're gonna get pedantic its a pagan festival. Dec 25th was celebrated long before Christians adapted it to fit in with Jesus's supposed birthday.