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Ante post Cheltenham
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Deleted User wrote: »But isn't the point that the turn around has happened in conditions that are completely different?
You say conditions, i say improvement
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Hurricane Fly has been my favourite horse in training since I had him at the festival in 2011..just love his style. It pains me to say, however, that I think Cheltenham does not suit him, that he won a poor Champion Hurdle in 2011 and that I don't think he will win this years. Lets look at the result of the 2011 Champion Hurdle he won:
2nd: Peddlers Cross: Who did this horse really beat of quality before or since? If you look through his form before it he was beating average hurdlers at the 2m distance, and flopped at Aintree subsquently before ill-fated stint over fences. Don't think McCain would of risked fences if he thought he was a top 2m hurdler. Now being aimed for long distance hurdles race.
3rd: Oscar Whiskey: Trip obviously too short on good ground as we now know.
4th: Thousand Stars: Needs further as we now know. Hurricane Fly beat him by the same distance as he always does in Ireland highlighting the lack of depth in race in my opinion.
5th: Menorah: Never a top class hurdler. Always a chaser.
6th: Clerks Choice: Poor animal by CH standards.
I know Overturn finished down the field too but his job that day was obviously to set a nice pace for stablemate Peddlers.
I love Hurricane Fly but really feel that he cleans up in Ireland due to the slower pace of our races on usually soft ground, against the same exposed opposition. I just can't forget the old stat about a Montjeu never winning at Cheltenham (before Hurricane Fly) and as I think the race he won was poor, couldn't go near him at current odds of 7/2.
I rate last years race much stronger than the one a 7yr old Fly won (last years was run in faster time) and although Rock on Ruby is not a horse that captures the imagination like The Fly, the gap in prices of both doesn't make sense. Most believe that Ruby had Hurricane Fly too far off the pace last year but if the horse was good enough, he would of eased up to the winner between 3 and 2 out!
For those buying into 'Mullins saying he was never happy with him last year and is much happier this year', I'd be careful.
Although there was obviously problems with the horse early doors last year (hence the alarming drift towards evens before Irish Champion Hurdle at end of Jan) the horse still hacked up in Leopardstown with Mullins stating "I was a bit anxious about the ground and he was very quiet beforehand, but maybe he's just maturing. Normally it takes two lads to lead him as he can be a bit tight. We had been worried before Cheltenham last year how he would handle everything, including the parade, but he went round like a handicapper today."
Mulllins then went on to say at a preview night that he was settling much better and that it would be a huge advantage that he could now swith off.
Now suddenly, he was never happy with him last year....
Not sure who I'll be backing this year but if asked to choose between Hurricane Fly and ROR, it'd go for the latter as much as it hurts me to say!
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Very good post.Hurricane Fly has been my favourite horse in training since I had him at the festival in 2011..just love his style. It pains me to say, however, that I think Cheltenham does not suit him, that he won a poor Champion Hurdle in 2011 and that I don't think he will win this years. Lets look at the result of the 2011 Champion Hurdle he won:
2nd: Peddlers Cross: Who did this horse really beat of quality before or since? If you look through his form before it he was beating average hurdlers at the 2m distance, and flopped at Aintree subsquently before ill-fated stint over fences. Don't think McCain would of risked fences if he thought he was a top 2m hurdler. Now being aimed for long distance hurdles race.
3rd: Oscar Whiskey: Trip obviously too short on good ground as we now know.
4th: Thousand Stars: Needs further as we now know. Hurricane Fly beat him by the same distance as he always does in Ireland highlighting the lack of depth in race in my opinion.
5th: Menorah: Never a top class hurdler. Always a chaser.
6th: Clerks Choice: Poor animal by CH standards.
I know Overturn finished down the field too but his job that day was obviously to set a nice pace for stablemate Peddlers.
I love Hurricane Fly but really feel that he cleans up in Ireland due to the slower pace of our races on usually soft ground, against the same exposed opposition. I just can't forget the old stat about a Montjeu never winning at Cheltenham (before Hurricane Fly) and as I think the race he won was poor, couldn't go near him at current odds of 7/2.
I rate last years race much stronger than the one a 7yr old Fly won (last years was run in faster time) and although Rock on Ruby is not a horse that captures the imagination like The Fly, the gap in prices of both doesn't make sense. Most believe that Ruby had Hurricane Fly too far off the pace last year but if the horse was good enough, he would of eased up to the winner between 3 and 2 out!
For those buying into 'Mullins saying he was never happy with him last year and is much happier this year', I'd be careful.
Although there was obviously problems with the horse early doors last year (hence the alarming drift towards evens before Irish Champion Hurdle at end of Jan) the horse still hacked up in Leopardstown with Mullins stating "I was a bit anxious about the ground and he was very quiet beforehand, but maybe he's just maturing. Normally it takes two lads to lead him as he can be a bit tight. We had been worried before Cheltenham last year how he would handle everything, including the parade, but he went round like a handicapper today."
Mulllins then went on to say at a preview night that he was settling much better and that it would be a huge advantage that he could now swith off.
Now suddenly, he was never happy with him last year....
Not sure who I'll be backing this year but if asked to choose between Hurricane Fly and ROR, it'd go for the latter as much as it hurts me to say!0 -
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Hurricane Fly has been my favourite horse in training since I had him at the festival in 2011..just love his style. It pains me to say, however, that I think Cheltenham does not suit him, that he won a poor Champion Hurdle in 2011 and that I don't think he will win this years. Lets look at the result of the 2011 Champion Hurdle he won:
2nd: Peddlers Cross: Who did this horse really beat of quality before or since? If you look through his form before it he was beating average hurdlers at the 2m distance, and flopped at Aintree subsquently before ill-fated stint over fences. Don't think McCain would of risked fences if he thought he was a top 2m hurdler. Now being aimed for long distance hurdles race.
3rd: Oscar Whiskey: Trip obviously too short on good ground as we now know.
4th: Thousand Stars: Needs further as we now know. Hurricane Fly beat him by the same distance as he always does in Ireland highlighting the lack of depth in race in my opinion.
5th: Menorah: Never a top class hurdler. Always a chaser.
6th: Clerks Choice: Poor animal by CH standards.
I know Overturn finished down the field too but his job that day was obviously to set a nice pace for stablemate Peddlers.
I love Hurricane Fly but really feel that he cleans up in Ireland due to the slower pace of our races on usually soft ground, against the same exposed opposition. I just can't forget the old stat about a Montjeu never winning at Cheltenham (before Hurricane Fly) and as I think the race he won was poor, couldn't go near him at current odds of 7/2.
I rate last years race much stronger than the one a 7yr old Fly won (last years was run in faster time) and although Rock on Ruby is not a horse that captures the imagination like The Fly, the gap in prices of both doesn't make sense. Most believe that Ruby had Hurricane Fly too far off the pace last year but if the horse was good enough, he would of eased up to the winner between 3 and 2 out!
For those buying into 'Mullins saying he was never happy with him last year and is much happier this year', I'd be careful.
Although there was obviously problems with the horse early doors last year (hence the alarming drift towards evens before Irish Champion Hurdle at end of Jan) the horse still hacked up in Leopardstown with Mullins stating "I was a bit anxious about the ground and he was very quiet beforehand, but maybe he's just maturing. Normally it takes two lads to lead him as he can be a bit tight. We had been worried before Cheltenham last year how he would handle everything, including the parade, but he went round like a handicapper today."
Mulllins then went on to say at a preview night that he was settling much better and that it would be a huge advantage that he could now swith off.
Now suddenly, he was never happy with him last year....
Not sure who I'll be backing this year but if asked to choose between Hurricane Fly and ROR, it'd go for the latter as much as it hurts me to say!
I don't usually say things like this ... but are you on hardcore drugs or have you even watched any of the races in the past years from some of these horses?! Is this honestly a wind up for someone on the site? I can't believe what I'm reading..
The best one "menorah always a chaser" or comments peddlers cross...
We're you born in 2011 or is it possible you didn't have a TV to watch racing before this period?!
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I don't usually say things like this ... but are you on hardcore drugs or have you even watched any of the races in the past years from some of these horses?! Is this honestly a wind up for someone on the site? I can't believe what I'm reading..
The best one "menorah always a chaser" or comments peddlers cross...
We're you born in 2011 or is it possible you didn't have a TV to watch racing before this period?!
Afraid not pal. By "Menorah always a chaser" I meant he was always going to be a chaser. Obviously. Agree? What do you not agree with about Peddlers? What horse of note has he ever beaten? You are hardly rating him on ONE good Champion Hurdle run? 0 -
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Menorah did a fine job of winning the supreme a race I think knocked the life out of him...
Peddlers cross..see below
http://www.irishracing.com/result?prn=Cheltenham&prc=009&prd=201003171405
The weakest champion hurdle I can recall in memory was punjabis
Do you honestly think that that was a good Neptune won by Peddlers? If you do it's you who needs drugs fella! :pac:
Do you think Peddlers beating stayers such as Reve de Sivola, Rite Of Passage and a bunch of chasers over 2.5m is proof of a brilliant Champion Hurdle horse? Almost all his rivals wanted further. He was never even near the the class of a Hardy Eustace, Istabraq or even Simonsig when it comes to being a true CH horse out of that race. If he was, he'd be aimed for it this year!
Dont even know where to start on you thinking that the supreme "knocked the life out of Menorah as he has won a Grade 1 Chase beating Al Ferof at Aintree last year. I'd forgotten that he'd won the Supreme if that helps your arguement at all though pal! 0 -
Yep HF champion hurdle form is weak alright Peddlars cross hes useless alright neptune winner aintree grade 2 not to mention grade 1 fighting fifth winner had the likes of reve de sivola,rite of passage,finnians rainbow ghizao quel esprit all behind him in his runs leading up to the 2011 CH
Oscar whiskey - won 10 of his 14 races 2 grade ones and 3 grade 3's
Thousand stars - County hurdle winner,2 grade one wins over hurdles including the french champion hurdle and grade 2 french hurdle not to mention placed in 5 grade one's
Menorah - grade 1 supreme novice's hurdle winner,grade one winning chaser and winner of 2 grade two's
Overturn - the pacemaking grade one winning front runner,galway hurdle winner,chester cup winner and northumberland plate winner
Dunguib - twice grade one winner over hurdles,grade one and grade 2 bumper winner
Khyber kim - grade one and grade two winner over hurdles
Millie chief - tailed of last the grade 2 winner over hurdles
Looked a pretty strong champion hurdle to me :rolleyes:
Game of opinions mate. When it comes to judging a 2 mile hurdle race I tend to look at hurdles form over the distance of 2 miles! :rolleyes: On reflection I'd forgotten about Menorahs Supreme win, fair enough. But you cannot argue that the likes of Oscar Whiskey and Thousand Stars (2 brilliant horses!) were and are much better over the 2.5 trip in all fairness? Just look at Aintree every year! As for all this quoting County Hurdles, Galway Hurdles, Bumpers, Grade 2's and Grade 3's of yours... this is the feckin Cheltenham Champion Hurdle for Gods sake. Those sort of achievements should be a given for any horse lining up in the race, not proof of it's quality! :eek:
P.S Peddlers ran a good race, no doubt about it, just not as good as some of you think!
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To rubbish oscar whiskey as no good at 2mile is ridiclious the thing is an aeroplane same with thousand stars both admirable horses not top the top of the tree at 2 mile but seriously they're no slouch's over the 2
Hurricane fly is not to be laid at 7/2 imo this beast has won 13 grade one's or something like that beaten twice since coming to willie mullins yard once when sick an second when placed in a champion hurdle weather he was sick or not was still an admirable performance giving the 10 length head start he gave the winner.
Never "rubbished" Oscar Whiskey as "no good" at 2 mile (you writing fiction now?) but... the facts remain Oscar Whiskey has no 'Grade 1 winning' form over 2 mile where he's beaten top horses AFAIK. Stand corrected if I'm wrong. All his best form is over 2m 4f. Same with Thousand Stars. Sure in last 2 years Thousand Stars has been beaten by Unaccompanied in a 2m Grade 1 and came 3rd behind Hurricane Fly and Zaidpour in a Punchestown CH. Are Unaccompanied and Zaidpour top notch 2 milers and Champion Hurdle class?
Take this year...
Ran in Tiperary first time out...4th behind Miley Shah, Rebel Fitz and Captain Cee Bee. Know it was only first time out.
Istabraq Hurdle (Grade 1) ...3rd with Unaccompanied 2nd and Hurricane Fly easy winner.
If you're one of those punters that watches through rose tinted glasses when analysing races and doesn't think logically then fair enough. You're probably right...horses preferred distances are irrelevant when judging their credentials in a particular race.
Anyway...all the best with your Hurricane Fly flutter, I'll be delighted if he wins...just a super super horse! Can hear your excuses already somehow though..
Oh and if you're claiming I'm a 19 year old, just think about how old you're acting before throwing a stupid insult another members way on this next time eh? G'luck! 0 -
Never "rubbished" Oscar Whiskey as "no good" at 2 mile (you writing fiction now?) but... the facts remain Oscar Whiskey has no 'Grade 1 winning' form over 2 mile where he's beaten top horses AFAIK. Stand corrected if I'm wrong. All his best form is over 2m 4f. Same with Thousand Stars. Sure in last 2 years Thousand Stars has been beaten by Unaccompanied in a 2m Grade 1 and came 3rd behind Hurricane Fly and Zaidpour in a Punchestown CH. Are Unaccompanied and Zaidpour top notch 2 milers and Champion Hurdle class?
Take this year...
Ran in Tiperary first time out...4th behind Miley Shah, Rebel Fitz and Captain Cee Bee. Know it was only first time out.
Istabraq Hurdle (Grade 1) ...3rd with Unaccompanied 2nd and Hurricane Fly easy winner.
If you're one of those punters that watches through rose tinted glasses when analysing races and doesn't think logically then fair enough. You're probably right...horses preferred distances are irrelevant when judging their credentials in a particular race.
Anyway...all the best with your Hurricane Fly flutter, I'll be delighted if he wins...just a super super horse! Can hear your excuses already somehow though..
Oh and if you're claiming I'm a 19 year old, just think about how old you're acting before throwing a stupid insult another members way on this next time eh? G'luck!
4th in a supreme novice at 2mile beaten 3 lengths and placed in a champion hurdle behind 13 time grade one winner HF is pretty effective over 2mile imo,not saying its his best but that was a good champion hurdle imo
to use the race in tipperary is silly the horse wasnt 50% fit that day and ran respectably behind hf at christmas staying on nicely,he is more of a spring horse I think.
What excuses for HF if he loses are you talking about if he's beaten fairly then ill be happy I got a run for my money if he falls at the last when clear then ill have an excuse why he lost and I dont know what you're talking about being 19 or something dont know if thats aimed at me but im bamboozled with that comment I havent mention any ages or insulted anyone 0 -
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Do you really think that was a true showing by al ferof? Do you not think he was over the top in any way and still possibly feeling the effects of the dose in te nicholls yard..(well aware both are intangible)
Dont even know where to start on you thinking that the supreme "knocked the life out of Menorah as he has won a Grade 1 Chase beating Al Ferof at Aintree last year. I'd forgotten that he'd won the Supreme if that helps your arguement at all though pal!0 -
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4th in a supreme novice at 2mile beaten 3 lengths and placed in a champion hurdle behind 13 time grade one winner HF is pretty effective over 2mile imo,not saying its his best but that was a good champion hurdle imo
to use the race in tipperary is silly the horse wasnt 50% fit that day and ran respectably behind hf at christmas staying on nicely,he is more of a spring horse I think.
What excuses for HF if he loses are you talking about if he's beaten fairly then ill be happy I got a run for my money if he falls at the last when clear then ill have an excuse why he lost and I dont know what you're talking about being 19 or something dont know if thats aimed at me but im bamboozled with that comment I havent mention any ages or insulted anyone
Sorry got you mixed up with Ste regarding the insults! Apologies!0 -
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