The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

Tipperary animal lover

I'm still gutted just watch the replay, we're gutless spinless leaderless and have to much baggage. At least 3 forwards and 1midfielder have to go. Don't want to name them as I'm no expert and they've given over so much of there time and effort to the county. We made limerick look like superstars. I'm so disheartened at the moment didn't feel this bad walking out of pairc ui chaoimh 2010.
With what we witnessed yesterday no county will fear us and know our GAME PLAN ..... Short tip tapping of the ball or long high balls into the non existing forwards and ruff up our players and you have the beaten of us!!!
Sorry for the rant but I'm really sickened.... We've a long long road ahead of us.

galtee mountain boy

Some really big calls need to be made from management now, really feel it was a big mistake appointing Shane McGrath as captain. He hasn’t made a decent contribution from the past 3 or 4 years.

We simply can’t afford to carry him any longer. What sickens me is the total lack of fight and hunger from the likes of Pa and Shane Burke, Callinan and Noel, they wouldn’t go in to a dark room. When the going gets tough as it did yesterday, these guys are always found wanting.

At least JohnO will put up his hand and try win or contest his own ball.
Make no mistake about it, Limerick were totally the better team yesterday and deserved their win. From a Tipp point of view it’s back to the drawing board again, you wouldn’t mind being beaten if the lads showed all the signs needed at this level, courage guts determination, Limerick had it in spades, sadly this is where Tipp were lacking.


No doubt some of them will be on twitter and heads in the paper telling us where it all went wrong, we bloody know where it went wrong, do something about it for a change.
Management need to have a look at themselves after yesterday also, how they stayed looking at Shane McGrath for 65 minutes took the biscuit, did his usual bit of fist pumping but that was his total contribution.

No real game plan either which was a real surprise, I though Eamonn O Shea was a hurling genius when it came to game plans, no sign of one yesterday.

premierstone

Eli Manning wrote: »

Too many lads beyond the half back line today were rubbish. Bubbles did well when he came on but faded with the team shortly after. Shane Bourke, Callanan, Bonnar, Noel McGrath and JOB were really poor.

Seriously?? Johnno was the best forward on the field yesterday, no question.

looder

looder wrote: »

We're lacking leaders all over the field. Our decision making was very poor and it's a long road back but we'll get there. We'll be playing Kilkenny in an All Ireland Semi in August now.

Pa Bourke in fairness to him has been Tipp's best player for the past 18 months.

Shane McGrath has brought his recent league and challenge matches form into the Championship and it's nearly time to start looking at alternatives.

Personally I think Gleeson should start the next day. His puckouts are far superior to Brendan's at this stage.

I also think Noel McGrath needs to be dropped. We've too many nice hurlers. We need lads who'll go in and win the dirty ball and at the moment we've very few who'll do that.

Your optimistic. As poor as Dublin and Wexford were Saturday i think we'd just cave in if we had to meet them and they got a run on us like Limerick did. Its no longer a case of being better then 10 other counties. We've come full cycle since the Babs era and we are right back to where we began in Winter 2007.

I would have my criticism of O'Shea yesterday and felt he persisted with the 3 man midfield far too long but i still think Management are the right men for the job going forward. If they cant get it right, no one can.

Some of these forwards are at the end of the line though. There was a man behind me yesterday and the whole game he was shouting 'watch for the breaks' and they never did once. 2 men going for a ball with no communication. I dont blame the man but it just goes to show how we continously make the same mistakes.

Red Crow

premierstone wrote: »

Seriously?? Johnno was the best forward on the field yesterday, no question.

We're you at the game? He was awful yesterday. His positioning on the field was dreadful. He hadn't a clue where he was half the time and was caught out in the middle. Limerick targeted his side early on and it worked as he offered very little in work rate.

He took one or two nice points but he missed one or two awful ones too. Being the best forward in this team isn't anything of merit.

What Bubbles done is 5 minutes was more than 'Johno' did in 70. Stop being so obtuse.

tiger21

ah stop, Johno is our only forward who can win ball in the air, and has been for the last few yrs. Won his fair share yesterday too

premierstone

Eli Manning wrote: »

We're you at the game? He was awful yesterday. His positioning on the field was dreadful. He hadn't a clue where he was half the time and was caught out in the middle. Limerick targeted his side early on and it worked as he offered very little in work rate.

He took one or two nice points but he missed one or two awful ones too. Being the best forward in this team isn't anything of merit.

What Bubbles done is 5 minutes was more than 'Johno' did in 70. Stop being so obtuse.

lol your funny, seriously you are talking rubbish Johnno was head and shoulders above anything we had from the half back line up, the only aerial threat we had, scored, and distributed the ball excellently.

Tell me how does a team target the opposition wing forward? Were they pucking the ball backwards at him or what?

And I didnt say he was our best forward, I said he was the best forward on the pitch.

Red Crow

I'm sure TV3 gave you a decent view of the game all right.

Nice to know the Toomevara men are out. He probably wasn't the worst forward but he was awful yesterday. Particularly his positioning was dreadful.

premierstone

Eli Manning wrote: »

I'm sure TV3 gave you a decent view of the game all right.

Nice to know the Toomevara men are out. He probably wasn't the worst forward but he was awful yesterday. Particularly his positioning was dreadful.

Nice and mature good man :rolleyes:

Hidalgo

ye're taking the fall out from yesterday very heavy lads.
Remember 2010 V Cork. Bad loss, but ye got ye're sh*t together and everyone knows what happened after that. Did Tipp fans believe then what would transpire The end of the world isn't necessarily on the horizon.

Too many of ye're forwards are excellent when given time and space, or when brought into a game that has opened up in the 2nd half. But you can't carry too many 'nice' hurlers. In the same way as you can't carry too many 'dirty ball winners'.
It's all about finding the right balance.

For all the disappointment of yesterday, at least ye created very good goal chances, just they didn't go in. Better create and miss than create none at all.
Tight championship games are won and lost on very fine margins. The move involving McGraths ball into space, Bonnar's whip across which resulted in a brilliant save from Nicky Quaid was excellent forward build-up play. That goes in, Tipp probably win. They're the fine margins.

From an outside pov, if Tipp pull it together, it'll be a Tipp KK final.

Hidalgo

Hidalgo wrote: »

ye're taking the fall out from yesterday very heavy lads.
Remember 2010 V Cork. Bad loss, but ye got ye're sh*t together and everyone knows what happened after that. Did Tipp fans believe then what would transpire The end of the world isn't necessarily on the horizon.

Too many of ye're forwards are excellent when given time and space, or when brought into a game that has opened up in the 2nd half. But you can't carry too many 'nice' hurlers. In the same way as you can't carry too many 'dirty ball winners'.
It's all about finding the right balance.

For all the disappointment of yesterday, at least ye created very good goal chances, just they didn't go in. Better create and miss than create none at all.
Tight championship games are won and lost on very fine margins. The move involving McGraths ball into space, Bonnar's whip across which resulted in a brilliant save from Nicky Quaid was excellent forward build-up play. That goes in, Tipp probably win. They're the fine margins.

From an outside pov, if Tipp pull it together, it'll be a Tipp KK final.

I honestly don't think this team can go back to the well a second time and one could argue that we got a soft draw the last occasion. Wexford, Offaly, Waterford and Galway are all better and wiser since whereas Tipp have much the same personnel 3 years on and we have gone backwards at an especially rapid rate since the 11 final.
If we were keeping the scoreboard ticking over consistently throughout the match then fair enough id have some faith but we only played in dribs and drabs and now teams know that if they get at us and run at us, we have absolutely no answer for them.

We were toothless and not one of those forwards stepped up to the mark. Johno took his points but seemed off the pace on occasion. Bubbles was a threat but doesn't get out in front of his man enough as a good few of the rest are very guilty of. We made it far too easy for Limerick at times. The men they had in acres of space was shameful. Kilkenny would have walloped us out the gate by at least 25+, perhaps 30+ with a performance like that.

We've become an absolute joke shop since we won the All Ireland and this has been a theme since we last completed a back to back in 1965. Win an all ireland every now and then and we dine on it for years while Kilkenny are famishing for more. Too many individuals with the attitude of what the county can do for them tbh. Callanan doesnt justify his place on the panel yet stated that he feels the county should be doing more to get him and others jobs. I can guarantee on Noreside there is lads who are more worried about keeping their place on the panel to begin with and anything else is a bonus.

looder

Deleted User wrote: »

Your optimistic. As poor as Dublin and Wexford were Saturday i think we'd just cave in if we had to meet them and they got a run on us like Limerick did. Its no longer a case of being better then 10 other counties. We've come full cycle since the Babs era and we are right back to where we began in Winter 2007.

I would have my criticism of O'Shea yesterday and felt he persisted with the 3 man midfield far too long but i still think Management are the right men for the job going forward. If they cant get it right, no one can.

Some of these forwards are at the end of the line though. There was a man behind me yesterday and the whole game he was shouting 'watch for the breaks' and they never did once. 2 men going for a ball with no communication. I dont blame the man but it just goes to show how we continously make the same mistakes.

Maybe I am. Only time will tell though.

I feel Limerick caught us on the hop yesterday and it won't happen again this year. We reached a League Final after Cork handed us our arses last Februray in Pairc Ui Rinn.

Yes it's worrying that we don't seem to have enough lads to win dirty ball and it's very worrying looking at Bonner's drop in form (mainly due to lack of hurling with his work commitments) and even more worrying that some of our lads looked like they wouldn't go into a dark room yesterday never mind stick their head in where it hurts but we were missing Jason Forde who's in great form with the u21s, Lar was missing, Bubble's is only back from an injury and didn't start and three or four of our players didn't perform on the day. That's 3 of our starting forwards missing so it's no real surprise we struggled slightly.


It was also O' Shea's first game as manager and no matter how good a coach he is, it was a real learning experience for him yesterday. He'll learn from it though and we'll regroup and beat the Leinster Semi Final losers on July 6th and move on from there.

We put it up to Kilkenny a few weeks back and absolutely annihilated a Dublin team that beat Limerick in a league final. With the back door there we've a real chance to redeem ourselves. Tipperary hurling is in a lot better place now than it was when Sheedy came in in the winter of '07. Although I don't believe we'll win the All Ireland this year I would be shocked if we don't reach a semi final.

H'on The Premier.

buggy beag

Hidalgo wrote: »

ye're taking the fall out from yesterday very heavy lads.
Remember 2010 V Cork. Bad loss, but ye got ye're sh*t together and everyone knows what happened after that. Did Tipp fans believe then what would transpire The end of the world isn't necessarily on the horizon.

Too many of ye're forwards are excellent when given time and space, or when brought into a game that has opened up in the 2nd half. But you can't carry too many 'nice' hurlers. In the same way as you can't carry too many 'dirty ball winners'.
It's all about finding the right balance.

For all the disappointment of yesterday, at least ye created very good goal chances, just they didn't go in. Better create and miss than create none at all.
Tight championship games are won and lost on very fine margins. The move involving McGraths ball into space, Bonnar's whip across which resulted in a brilliant save from Nicky Quaid was excellent forward build-up play. That goes in, Tipp probably win. They're the fine margins.

From an outside pov, if Tipp pull it together, it'll be a Tipp KK final.

the difference being back then most of the team hadnt won an all ireland so it least they had sum bit of hunger to win one back then

tonyduggan

Eli Manning wrote: »

I'm sure TV3 gave you a decent view of the game all right.

Nice to know the Toomevara men are out. He probably wasn't the worst forward but he was awful yesterday. Particularly his positioning was dreadful.

haha another bandwagoner with a high opinion of himself by the sounds of it. up on a high horse cos you went to a match. how many were you at between 2003 and 2007?

he was by far our best forward yesterday. hes a great player, the courage he showed by playing last august, jesus if only a grain of it rubbed off on the few lads around him yesterday. pa bourke wouldnt go out in the wind. shane bourke id say would be best used as an impact sub. callinan... jesus after last year i dunno what kind of a kick up the hole he needs. noel can be hot and cold, and he was very cold yesterday. johno, a fighter as usual. bonner, great workrate and set up the goal but he seems to spend more time running after the ball than on it.

my forwards from next time out would be

buggy bonner johno
bubbles lar forde/kelly.

shake it up a bit cos theres too many wasters out there im afraid

tonyduggan

when is gar ryan due back aswell lads? id throw him in beside brendan midfield, shane hasnt been up to much this year, no room for baggage if we went to get a run at liam this year

Xenophile

galtee mountain boy wrote: »

Please don't be too upset, but it seems that all the Galtee Mountain Boys came from the Limerick side of the Galtees yesterday! Slievenamon abu!

Xenophile

Pity we did not get a chance to see if Jason Forde would have made a difference yesterday. Sincere thanks to Eoin Kelly for the service he has rendered, I don't want to see him on the team again. Better for him to pack it in now before he loses credibility as a future manager. He should have taken a leaf out of Declan Fanning's book and know how to go when the time was right. Let's now look to our younger players for our future!

tonyduggan

Xenophile wrote: »

Pity we did not get a chance to see if Jason Forde would have made a difference yesterday. Sincere thanks to Eoin Kelly for the service he has rendered, I don't want to see him on the team again. Better for him to pack it in now before he loses credibility as a future manager. He should have taken a leaf out of Declan Fanning's book and know how to go when the time was right. Let's now look to our younger players for our future!

id start him ahead of at least 3 of the forwards from yesterday the next day out, maybe 4. heart above all else is needed, by god does he have it.

Alpha Dog 1

What's the story with Jason Forde?

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Pity we did not get a chance to see if Jason Forde would have made a difference yesterday. Sincere thanks to Eoin Kelly for the service he has rendered, I don't want to see him on the team again. Better for him to pack it in now before he loses credibility as a future manager. He should have taken a leaf out of Declan Fanning's book and know how to go when the time was right. Let's now look to our younger players for our future!

That's a pretty harsh comment. Eoin Kelly will and always will be an absolute legend and knowing him i can honestly say there is few players in Tipperary with a greater will to win. His medal haul by ratio to his ability and contribution over the years is criminal and sinful. For years he carried Tipp forwards on his back and stood up while many others were indisciplined and not brave enough.

If he was living 5 or 6 miles in an Easterly direction he'd have as many medals as Shefflin and would deserve every single one of them.
The reason Eoin was introduced into the game yesterday is because the guys on the pitch werent up to it and its the same reason he is on the panel. As if that night in Cork in late February wasnt bad enough, we would have been humiliated beyond belief had Eoin not come on and made such an impact.

Perhaps your right about him not having the ability to make his mark for Tipp these times but please put it more tactfully then you put it.

Fact is that until the minors and u21s come through in a couple of years we have little options in the forwards so i wouldnt have any complaints that Eoin is worthy of his place on the panel at the very least. Put it like this if Tipperary went to war in the morning id rather have Eoin Kelly beside me in the trenches than Seamus Callanan or our captain

Alpha Dog 1

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

What's the story with Jason Forde?

Stomach bug.

tonyduggan

tonyduggan wrote: »

when is gar ryan due back aswell lads? id throw him in beside brendan midfield, shane hasnt been up to much this year, no room for baggage if we went to get a run at liam this year

What about Foxy for midfield? Plays there for Eire Og Annacarthy. Very good little battler in the rucks in my opinion. Lacks a bit under the high ball though.

Gar i think is best suited to wing forward as if he is beaten to it he'll bottle his man up best as he can. Might be too loose for midfield. Think he was on the bench yesterday but he could well be projected into the starting line up next day.

Xenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a pretty harsh comment. Eoin Kelly

This year and maybe last year as well Eoin has been playing the man when he was not able to play the ball. I agree he would be a great comrade in any war. This is sport not war.........give youth a chance as many teams are doing right now...........it's not all about winning but playing the game in its true spirit. Rather than be hungry for success let's decide to win with honour.

Alpha Dog 1

Lads, the half forward line is the second most important line on a team after the half back line.
Can't remember the last decent half forward line we have had. Probably have to go back to 2001 mark o leary and Dec Ryan.

What team has the best half forward line in Ireland and why?
What exactly does a modern half forward line need?

For me the centre forward is critical and needs to be a 6 foot + and very effective under the high ball, good vision, good passing skills and an ability to stop the centre back from hurling. A good centre forward can make an average wing forward look immense, ie mark o leary 2001.

Surely we have a player somewhere in the county who possesses such attributes and can make an impact at this level?

Hidalgo

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Lads, the half forward line is the second most important line on a team after the half back line.
Can't remember the last decent half forward line we have had. Probably have to go back to 2001 mark o leary and Dec Ryan.

What team has the best half forward line in Ireland and why?
What exactly does a modern half forward line need?

For me the centre forward is critical and needs to be a 6 foot + and very effective under the high ball, good vision, good passing skills and an ability to stop the centre back from hurling. A good centre forward can make an average wing forward look immense, ie mark o leary 2001.

Surely we have a player somewhere in the county who possesses such attributes and can make an impact at this level?

The ability to win your own puck outs.
Doing so means more ball in areas where you can score, more ball to your inside line and the opposing HB line has less ball to launch attacks on your defence

Alpha Dog 1

Hidalgo wrote: »

The ability to win your own puck outs.
Doing so means more ball in areas where you can score, more ball to your inside line and the opposing HB line has less ball to launch attacks on your defence

JOB is decent in the air, lar on his day also, can't think of too many more though!

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

This year and maybe last year as well Eoin has been playing the man when he was not able to play the ball. I agree he would be a great comrade in any war. This is sport not war.........give youth a chance as many teams are doing right now...........it's not all about winning but playing the game in its true spirit. Rather than be hungry for success let's decide to win with honour.

I half agree with you. I think we need to give youth a chance BECAUSE WE WANT TO WIN THINGS.

Id call up a few hungry u21s to training matches the next few weeks and leave some of the poster boys who think they are undroppable earn their place.

And my point would be that the likes of Eoin around would be a much better influence to have around on these young lads then some of the others who have flattered to deceive in the last 2 years

tonyduggan

Deleted User wrote: »

What about Foxy for midfield? Plays there for Eire Og Annacarthy. Very good little battler in the rucks in my opinion. Lacks a bit under the high ball though.

Gar i think is best suited to wing forward as if he is beaten to it he'll bottle his man up best as he can. Might be too loose for midfield. Think he was on the bench yesterday but he could well be projected into the starting line up next day.

This is it though, it mightnt be the way to look at things but youd have to compare ourselves to KK when deciding these things, they set the standard, we have to match it. Fennelly would have a field day on COB. It would be worth a shot though, you cant deny foxy gives it his all.

I'd have to agree with what people are saying about u21s getting the nod. We have two games as far as I know before an ai qf, theres should be big changes for those 2 at least. has anyone worked out who we'll be playing yet? I think its the loser of kk v dublin/wexford. Time for a change in that game. Nothing drastic, but the fancy lads up front need to go

tonyduggan

Xenophile wrote: »

This year and maybe last year as well Eoin has been playing the man when he was not able to play the ball. I agree he would be a great comrade in any war. This is sport not war.........give youth a chance as many teams are doing right now...........it's not all about winning but playing the game in its true spirit. Rather than be hungry for success let's decide to win with honour.

ah here. its mostly about winning in fairness.

Xenophile

tonyduggan wrote: »

winning in fairness.

For me yes winning in fairness! With apologies for fairness!