The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

sterling10

Another is that somehow Buggy O'Meara is the answer to our problems. He cannot run and is very immobile, no use in modern hurling

Powerhouse

sterling10 wrote: »

Another is that somehow Buggy O'Meara is the answer to our problems. He cannot run and is very immobile, no use in modern hurling

Surely this is at best a niche belief, if it's out there at all? It's hardly a widely enough held idea to be considered a 'generalisation' at least based in the people I talk to anyway.

premierstone

The Woodcock wrote: »

Another 'lazy generalisation' about this Tipp team is that Darren Gleeson deserves a starting place due to his supposedly superior puckouts. In the league game against KK in Thurles his puckouts were quite poor and he gifted Kilkenny at least two scores while also pucking the ball to players who were under pressure. Cummins still deserves to be there in my view.

I agree Cummins deserves to keep he's place I never said otherwise, and ''supposedly superior puckouts''?? Are you really suggesting otherwise?

sterling10

sterling10 wrote: »

Another is that somehow Buggy O'Meara is the answer to our problems. He cannot run and is very immobile, no use in modern hurling

I disagree. Buggy is brilliant to lay off a ball and by right a teammate should be ready to take the breaks from him immediately when he breaks it but here in lies the problem.

The Woodcock

premierstone wrote: »

I agree Cummins deserves to keep he's place I never said otherwise, and ''supposedly superior puckouts''?? Are you really suggesting otherwise?

Were you at the league game v KK in Thurles? On the evidence of that game you couldn't say that Gleeson's puckouts are better.

premierstone

The Woodcock wrote: »

Were you at the league game v KK in Thurles? On the evidence of that game you couldn't say that Gleeson's puckouts are better.

I was and I was at the other 3 league games he played, I have also seen him playing with Portroe for the last 15 years and have watched Brendan for the last 20 years or so. To base your judgement on one isolated match where the blame lay with the recipients as much as the keeper would seem very short sighted to me??

premierstone

Good news, according to Tony Delaney just now on Tipp FM Johnno's injury not as bad as first feared and he will be back for Sat week!!

ReacherCreature

Just thinking aloud here, IF Dublin beat Kilkenny, will Kilkenny play Shefflin against us in the qualifier? That's a nightmare scenario.

the player

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh Ill be worried whoever we get and wouldnt rule elimination out by any team especially after Laois giving Galway such a run. I half wonder if they had met us on the day instead what would have happened. Willie Hyland who is arguably their best player had an off day on that occasion so if he had hit form perhaps Laois might'nt be in tomorrows draw.

We're so fragile at the moment i wouldn't take anyone for granted. If we end up in a dogfight I fear that we won't have the men to battle through it and will therefore come second.

On top of that there seems to be a pretentiousness and cockiness that still remains with this side despite all the disasters we've encountered the last 2 years

Hi, I read the forum a lot but this is my first post. However I noticed that you were very unhappy about someone saying, that a Tipp player was swanning around Thurles. That poster seem to be very negative, about Tipp hurling and the players in general. You now seem to be now repeating a lot of what he said. perhaps like most fans your posts are fueled by emotion, and reason sometimes takes a back seat. From outside Tipperary where I live, there is a different view of Tipp hurling, that despite their undoubted talent,they are very flaky, and fold when the pressure comes on.
If you are going to slag one person for voicing their honest opinion, perhaps you should now admit you were wrong about this group of players. That in fact they are not as good as you perceived them to be, and they have been very disappointing since winning the 2010 All Ireland.
That said,I like your posts they generally very insightful and interesting.

the player

the player wrote: »

Hi, I read the forum a lot but this is my first post. However I noticed that you were very unhappy about someone saying, that a Tipp player was swanning around Thurles. That poster seem to be very negative, about Tipp hurling and the players in general. You now seem to be now repeating a lot of what he said. perhaps like most fans your posts are fueled by emotion, and reason sometimes takes a back seat. From outside Tipperary where I live, there is a different view of Tipp hurling, that despite their undoubted talent,they are very flaky, and fold when the pressure comes on.
If you are going to slag one person for voicing their honest opinion, perhaps you should now admit you were wrong about this group of players. That in fact they are not as good as you perceived them to be, and they have been very disappointing since winning the 2010 All Ireland.
That said,I like your posts they generally very insightful and interesting.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Sorry, can you explain this? I'm just wondering what you have seen that would bring you to this conlusion. I am always wary of these sort of 'soft' attributions when it comes to Tipp as they usually suit the propaganda of those outside the county. I often wonder are such conclusions a sign of Tipp finally becoming house-trained by the other counties and just not liking themselves very much either or if there are genuine grounds for such an opinion.

Firstly Padraic Maher is the player that poster was referring to back in February and considering he is a fairly consistent performer for both club and county then yes, i felt it was harsh for him to be one of those singled out for Thurles Sarsfields defeat to Kilcormac so that is why i took exception to that particular comment on that occasion. That poster back in February was predicting crisis after the league defeat to Cork which i felt was way too early to make a judgement as piss poor as the performance was and at the same time they were commenting on Thurles Sars as if they had a devine right to win that All Ireland semi and while Sars were poor i felt K-K (like Limerick recently) deserved credit for their own mammoth performance.

Also Kilcormac are a very good side and didnt win Offaly and Leinster for nothing so i also felt that they deserved more respect by the poster you refer to, though perhaps in that respect what has become lost in the hysteria of Tipp's defeat is that Limerick are also a good crop of players.

Be that as it may, this is now Championship and not for the first time, Tipperary were outfought in a dog fight. I feel strongly that it is an unwillingness to adapt to the ever changing physical demands of the intercounty game is one of the main reasons why Tipperary regress in the aftermath of winning an All Ireland. That is why I would question the mentality of some (not all) of the current panel. Forwards that fail to win any decent amount of ball and showing no signs of grit, desire or fight. Markers getting out in front of them. Giving up the ghost easily......so many symptoms of lack of hunger.
I'm just sick of this pattern where we win an All Ireland and disappear into the shadows for another decade. i could take defeat if we could at least prove that we are at least pulling out all the stops to try and win. 2009 i couldnt have been prouder of the lads effort while 2011 i couldnt have been more ashamed.

Ill admit that i would have laid 90% of the blame firmly on the door of the outgoing management for the collapse of both our 11 and 12 challenges but having watched the league final where forwards failed to win a ball in Nowlan Park, and now the collapse against Limerick, i have had to rethink my stance and have grown more and more disillusioned with the crop of players we have.

I still maintain though that last years management were the wrong men at the right time and that we needed continuity going into 2011 but as we now know that wasnt to be, unfortunately and understandably

In hindsight, the terms pretentious and cocky were probably OTT considering i dont know some of these forwards personally who im referring to and it wasnt a reference to their personalities, but to their approach to the game. We have a few big men with loads of experience, who give the winter in the gym and yet they will spectate on the field and wont get stuck into rucks. Also they arent prepared to break hurleys. Yes ill admit this year has been such a disappointment that in my own head there is a sense of 'whats the use?!' about everything. In my own head i have them written off and they've broken my spirit. I defended Lar Corbett for a long time now but the league final was the eye opener for me that he is just not prepared to get involved in a dog fight and thats not the type of hurler Tipp need right now.

Seamie Callanan gave an interview on one of the papers recently before the Limerick game and hinted that the county needed to do more to get them jobs in order for them to maintain commitment. Fair enough, but to be honest Seamie is barely warranting his own place on the panel with his inconsistent and erratic performances to be calling any shots. I wish him well with his job hunting all the same but there just was a sense about his comments that its all about what the county should be doing for him and considering his undoubted ability, were not seeing the full extent (or at times not even 50%) of what he can do in return.

Minor team named to play Limerick in the stadium tomorrow night

Brian Hogan (Lorrha and Dorrha); Ross Mulcahy (Moyle Rovers), Jason Ryan (Toomevara), Darragh Peters (Kilruane MacDonaghs); Tom Fox (Éire Óg Annacarty), Ronan Maher (Thurles Sarsfields), Barry Heffernan (Nenagh Éire Óg); Willie Connors (Kildangan), Tom Kirwan (Ballybacon Grange); Sean Ryan (Sean Treacys), Colin O'Riordan (JK Brackens), Mark McCarthy (Toomevara); Sam Conlon (Roscrea), Josh Keane (Golden Kilfeacle), Conor Lanigan (Thurles Sarsfields). -

http://www.hoganstand.com/Tipperary/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=195188#sthash.btEWHeEM.dpuf

the player

great post,I suppose its the hardest thing in the world sometimes being a supporter. you can only offer your support, your frustrations are very hard to contain, as you want to see them doing their best. really there are very few more excuses we can offer for this current crop of players. Gifted undoubtedly, and they are slowly letting their talents, and their time in the blue and gold; fade into a kind of mediocrity.
I suppose they could have been a golden generation so to speak, certainly the road opened up in 2010, now they seem happy to have had their day in the sun.

sterling10

Did Lar Corbett, Padraig Maher and Conor O'Mahoney not go on the Late Late Show looking for jobs tipp_gunner???

premierstone

the player wrote: »

great post,I suppose its the hardest thing in the world sometimes being a supporter. you can only offer your support, your frustrations are very hard to contain, as you want to see them doing their best. really there are very few more excuses we can offer for this current crop of players. Gifted undoubtedly, and they are slowly letting their talents, and their time in the blue and gold; fade into a kind of mediocrity.
I suppose they could have been a golden generation so to speak, certainly the road opened up in 2010, now they seem happy to have had their day in the sun.

I think its a bit OTT to say these players are fading into mediocrity, they have played in three of the last 4 AI's and won 3 of the last 4 Munster Finals, infact the only team to beat them in a knockout match since 2008 is KK a team widely recognised as the greatest of all time, I think we need a little perspective here lads, yes it is dissapointing that they have not progressed from 2010, there are a lot of factors at play here other than just attitude and arrogance.

Don't write these lads off just yet is all I will say!

premierstone

sterling10 wrote: »

Did Lar Corbett, Padraig Maher and Conor O'Mahoney not go on the Late Late Show looking for jobs tipp_gunner???

The GPA asked them to appear on the show as they were three of the most high profile unemployed players at the time, and quite frankly all three have alot more credibility that Seamie Callinan, who has yet to really deliver on he's undoubted talent, he is currently probably the best club hurler in the county but repeatedly dissapoints in the blue and gold.

Tipperary animal lover

Lads this forum is turning into a bit*h fest, if you want to destory a good forum and bit*h at each other will ye head over to the tipp hoganstand page, that forum has been ruined by like minded people cheers.

igorbiscan

Judging by the negativity on here I think some Tipp supporters could be accused of being flaky too.
Maybe they needed this boot up the hole.If they have any aspirations for September they probably need a run of tough games to build up the belief again rather than pissing through Munster,then getting a shock in the semi or final.
Anyways let try a bit more positivity,eh.

ReacherCreature

I'm heading to the minor match tonight. Any talented/good players to look out for on the Tipp side?

Tipperary animal lover

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I'm heading to the minor match tonight. Any talented/good players to look out for on the Tipp side?[/willie Connors he's 16 playing midfield and josh keane FF some mover... Limerick have to lynch's in the forward line and are very good players, it'll be a great tussle between tipp no3 and lim no14.

bellybuster12

Anyone know how the minors went? they were a couple points up at half time.


EDIT; uggh lost by a goal i see.

The Woodcock

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Anyone know how the minors went? they were a couple points up at half time.


EDIT; uggh lost by a goal i see.

Minors beaten 1-17 to 0-17. They fell away badly in the last 15 minutes when Limerick came from four points down to win by three. Same problems as their senior counterparts, plenty of skill and talent but lacking in bottle and passion.

buggy beag

dont know much about attendances but over 3000 looks a very good crowd for a midweek minor game

ormond lad

The Woodcock wrote: »

Minors beaten 1-17 to 0-17. They fell away badly in the last 15 minutes when Limerick came from four points down to win by three. Same problems as their senior counterparts, plenty of skill and talent but lacking in bottle and passion.

Harsh to say 16/17 year olds were lacking bottle and how can you say they lacked passion? Not at game but im sure all gave their all and did their best and to say otherwise about such young players is ridiculous to the extreme

The Woodcock

ormond lad wrote: »

Harsh to say 16/17 year olds were lacking bottle and how can you say they lacked passion? Not at game but im sure all gave their all and did their best and to say otherwise about such young players is ridiculous to the extreme

The scoreline tells its own story. The fact is that when the fat was in the fire Limerick showed more desire and will to win. They outscored Tipp by 1-7 to 0-3 in the last twenty minutes of the game to come from four points down and win by three. The Limerick hurlers are also 16/17 year old lads and they took a leaf out of the book of their own seniors.
Tipperary teams at all levels get the best of everything in terms of preparation, gear, resources etc. They are rightly praised when they deliver wins and by the same token their defeats should be subject to critical comment. It's a lesson that these young minors need to learn now if they want to go on and hurl for Tipp at u21 and senior. There's nothing personal against any player here, but if we start to accept mediocrity and below-par performances then why bother competing at all?
You are of course entitled to your view but I wouldn't dream of commenting on a game I wasn't at.

ormond lad

The Woodcock wrote: »

The scoreline tells its own story. The fact is that when the fat was in the fire Limerick showed more desire and will to win. They outscored Tipp by 1-7 to 0-3 in the last twenty minutes of the game to come from four points down and win by three. The Limerick hurlers are also 16/17 year old lads and they took a leaf out of the book of their own seniors.
Tipperary teams at all levels get the best of everything in terms of preparation, gear, resources etc. They are rightly praised when they deliver wins and by the same token their defeats should be subject to critical comment. It's a lesson that these young minors need to learn now if they want to go on and hurl for Tipp at u21 and senior. There's nothing personal against any player here, but if we start to accept mediocrity and below-par performances then why bother competing at all?
You are of course entitled to your view but I wouldn't dream of commenting on a game I wasn't at.

That's fine but to question kids willingness to compete and their desire to win is ridiculous especially when for many it will be their final time representing their county in hurling.
I know you are not being personal but to say they lacked passion is ridiculous. How exactly did the players who did their best representing tipp tonight lack passion?

slegs

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

After watching all the candidates for Liam this year I've only one thing to say ..... Hurling is in a bad place in the country, there hasn't been one decent championship game so far they've all been way below the standard of the years gone by, it's great to see limerick cork Laois Clare etc coming but the standard of hurling is pure sh.te .... Paying top € to go watch this no wonder the stadiums are empty.

Funny how when Tipp and Kilkenny arent going well that hurling is sh1te and when they are on top of everyone we are to wonder at the glory of it all.

Maybe the gap is closing in a positive way rather than the reverse

The Woodcock

ormond lad wrote: »

That's fine but to question kids willingness to compete and their desire to win is ridiculous especially when for many it will be their final time representing their county in hurling.
I know you are not being personal but to say they lacked passion is ridiculous. How exactly did the players who did their best representing tipp tonight lack passion?

Nobody goes out to play badly or not to try their best, but the game came down to a dogfight in the last ten minutes and Limerick won the dogfight. Tipperary hurled with some passion but Limerick had far more passion and that's what got them the place in the Munster Final. It has been an unwholesome trait of Tipperary hurling for several years now and has been a major factor in a lot of defeats in tight games where Tipp have been ahead and coasting but surrendered a lead in the final quarter. We are producing skillful hurlers but when a team puts it up to us we wilt and that's what happened again tonight. There were a couple of great individual performances from Tipp but a couple of others who looked pretty lackadaisical too.

ormond lad

The Woodcock wrote: »

Nobody goes out to play badly or not to try their best, but the game came down to a dogfight in the last ten minutes and Limerick won the dogfight. Tipperary hurled with some passion but Limerick had far more passion and that's what got them the place in the Munster Final. It has been an unwholesome trait of Tipperary hurling for several years now and has been a major factor in a lot of defeats in tight games where Tipp have been ahead and coasting but surrendered a lead in the final quarter. We are producing skillful hurlers but when a team puts it up to us we wilt and that's what happened again tonight. There were a couple of great individual performances from Tipp but a couple of others who looked pretty lackadaisical too.

It may be an unwholesome trait of Tipperary hurling recently but its not a lack of passion. How do you define who is more passionate????
Going by vast majority of reports ive seen of game Limerick won as they were much superior in defence and much stronger than us in the 2nd half and talking about passion is hiding from the fact that tipp were not strong enough to win.
Limerick won as they were cleverer and played much better in the 2nd half compared to a first half where Tipperary were much more efficient when in possession

Davin Stand

Very disappointing display by Tipp tonight and they certainly let their Munster and All Ireland crowns go very easily. I certainly thought that Tipp would win tonight and that they had a good chance of repeating last year's success. Limerick played far better hurling, showed more heart and determination and definitely deserved their win. Colin O'Riordan was far and away Tipp's best outfield player, but suffered from a lack of support. I also thought that Brian Hogan had a fine game in goal, but a number of the Tipp lads with big reputations failed to deliver tonight. You would not be impressed with management tonight either and I have a feeling that there was an element of complacency with them as well. Pity, but that is the end of the minor hurlers' campaign for 2013.

Alpha Dog 1

Beaten twice by limerick in the one year and within a couple of weeks.
Painful stuff.