The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

The Woodcock

ormond lad wrote: »

It may be an unwholesome trait of Tipperary hurling recently but its not a lack of passion. How do you define who is more passionate????

Passion, will to win, desire, heart, team spirit or whatever you want to call it, can be measured first and foremost by the attitude and work rate of the team, individually and collectively. To be more specific, you can measure it by the following - players making hooks, blocks and tackles (90% of games are won by the team who wins the hook/block/tackle count), players chasing lost causes, players winning 50/50 balls, a player's ability to do something inspirational when needed in a game, particularly a close game. Lack of passion is indicated by players giving up and general laziness on the field. Any player can be coached in the skills of the game but passion can't be coached, it comes down to individual and collective attitude and team spirit. The teams were pretty evenly matched in terms of skill this evening, but it was certainly Limerick's greater passion that won it for them and I think anyone at the game would agree with that analysis.

The Woodcock

The Woodcock wrote: »

Minors beaten 1-17 to 0-17. They fell away badly in the last 15 minutes when Limerick came from four points down to win by three. Same problems as their senior counterparts, plenty of skill and talent but lacking in bottle and passion.

Its disappointing but i dont agree that this minor team lack bottle. In fact im heartened by the warrior instinct of one or two of the lads in the ranks such as Tom Kirwan, Ronan Maher and the wonderful Colm O'Riordan. Dont forget the injuries we had also as well as the fact we had a good few lads just 16 years of age like Peters.

Josh Keane is also a good physical hurler but admittedly didnt have his finest hour tonight. These lads are only kids and many have only got exams out of the way while others have them ahead in the next year so give them a break they are a good crop who lost 1 game in a very competitive Munster championship to a good crop of Limerick youngsters and having watched it while some of the decision making was poor (as you'd expect from 16/17 year olds) i would have no question that the boys left nothing on the field tonight.

We'll certainly see a few of these kids don the blue and gold in a couple of years

tippspur

This year just gets worse,hopefully one of our teams will get some kind of success down the line before the year is out.

GoldFour4

Davin Stand wrote: »

Very disappointing display by Tipp tonight and they certainly let their Munster and All Ireland crowns go very easily. I certainly thought that Tipp would win tonight and that they had a good chance of repeating last year's success. Limerick played far better hurling, showed more heart and determination and definitely deserved their win. Colin O'Riordan was far and away Tipp's best outfield player, but suffered from a lack of support. I also thought that Brian Hogan had a fine game in goal, but a number of the Tipp lads with big reputations failed to deliver tonight. You would not be impressed with management tonight either and I have a feeling that there was an element of complacency with them as well. Pity, but that is the end of the minor hurlers' campaign for 2013.

Hogan made a great save at one stage in the first half but his puckouts did the team no favors.

All in all we just couldn't find that extra gear to increase the gap past 4. O Riordan was outstanding, fielded some serious ball all night.

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

This year just gets worse,hopefully one of our teams will get some kind of success down the line before the year is out.

I suppose ironically our minor footballers will be boosted by tonights result. They'll have O'Riordan, Tom Kirwan and Josh Keane available to them now (thats only 3 i know off the top of my head)

Personally i think tonight will be a good learning curve for our minors in years to come.

Additionally to those on this thread who are questioning their bottle, they played Kilkenny up in Ballingarry in a challenge back in February in conditions you wouldnt put a dog out in and if you did the ISPCA would be called. These chaps have bottle, trust me

Davin Stand

Ross Mulcahy and Willie Connors are the other 2 footballers who played last night.

Moyorris

I heard on Tipp FM that this group of players had lost to Limerick at U16 and U17.It can be hard to overcome that losing sequence..How many of these would be likely to go on the U21 Panel.

Davin Stand

I would not expect any of these players to go on to the Under 21 panel. Young players need time to develop and many good players development has been slowed by being promoted at too young an age. 2 or 3 (maximum) might make next year's Under 21 panel. I never pay a lot of attention to what happened at Under 16 or Under 17. I would think that over confidence or complacency was much more of a factor last night than any hangover from Under 16 or Under 17 days. Management also need to look at their own poor performance.

premierstone

The Woodcock wrote: »

Nobody goes out to play badly or not to try their best, but the game came down to a dogfight in the last ten minutes and Limerick won the dogfight. Tipperary hurled with some passion but Limerick had far more passion and that's what got them the place in the Munster Final. It has been an unwholesome trait of Tipperary hurling for several years now and has been a major factor in a lot of defeats in tight games where Tipp have been ahead and coasting but surrendered a lead in the final quarter. We are producing skillful hurlers but when a team puts it up to us we wilt and that's what happened again tonight. There were a couple of great individual performances from Tipp but a couple of others who looked pretty lackadaisical too.

The Woodcock wrote: »

Passion, will to win, desire, heart, team spirit or whatever you want to call it, can be measured first and foremost by the attitude and work rate of the team, individually and collectively. To be more specific, you can measure it by the following - players making hooks, blocks and tackles (90% of games are won by the team who wins the hook/block/tackle count), players chasing lost causes, players winning 50/50 balls, a player's ability to do something inspirational when needed in a game, particularly a close game. Lack of passion is indicated by players giving up and general laziness on the field. Any player can be coached in the skills of the game but passion can't be coached, it comes down to individual and collective attitude and team spirit. The teams were pretty evenly matched in terms of skill this evening, but it was certainly Limerick's greater passion that won it for them and I think anyone at the game would agree with that analysis.

As usual a complete knee jerk reaction on here when Tipp are beaten, did ye ever stop and think for a second that maybe, just maybe Limerick were the better team and thats why they won, well that and a fairly dubious penalty!

Its no wonder Tipp supporters have a reputation in other counties of been arrogant going by some of the rubbish that gets posted here, fact is Limerick are last years u16 AI champs and u17 runners up, they are a bloody good team, and Eamon Cregan can pick and choose any team he wants in Limerick and beyond and decided to get involved with these lads, they knew full well in Limerick what they had and fair play to them they have a couple of smashing hurlers.

Lads here sitting behind a keyboard spouting about desire and commitment, fcuk off! Ye haven't a clue the sacrifices these guys have made and will make again they live and breed the game, and no one will be feeling as low as these guys this morning.

premierstone

Davin Stand wrote: »

Management also need to look at their own poor performance.

Yeah one Munster Tilte and One AI in two years is a pitifull return :rolleyes:

Davin Stand

Do you honestly think that the management performed well last night. Why were Tipp looking for unlikely goals in the first 20 minutes when relatively easy point chances were there for the taking. I thought that Tipp looked complacent for a lot of the game and really only started to hurl when Limerick scored the goal. Did management have the team in the correct mental attitude from the start. It did not appear so. As for the short hand passing and overplaying of the ball it looked a bit like Clare last Sunday and we know how that worked out. The Tipp management are highly regarded and rightly so, bit IMO yesterday was a bad day at the office for them. It happens no manager gets it right all the time.

premierstone

Davin Stand wrote: »

Do you honestly think that the management performed well last night. Why were Tipp looking for unlikely goals in the first 20 minutes when relatively easy point chances were there for the taking. I thought that Tipp looked complacent for a lot of the game and really only started to hurl when Limerick scored the goal. Did management have the team in the correct mental attitude from the start. It did not appear so. As for the short hand passing and overplaying of the ball it looked a bit like Clare last Sunday and we know how that worked out. The Tipp management are highly regarded and rightly so, bit IMO yesterday was a bad day at the office for them. It happens no manager gets it right all the time.

Apologies, I thought you meant in general and not just in relation to last night, which yes I agree was not their finest hour, a number of things were bizzare last night - over playing the ball at times rather than more direct hurling, forwards trying to walk it into the net when a simple point was on, moving O'Riordan in to FF and then proceeding to hit every ball low into the corners, leaving Heffernan on the field (fine hurler but was having a stinker), trying Mark McCarthy in about 5 different positions when the bench seemed the obvious place, taking young Peters off after one small mistake in 50 mins, and repclacing him with an injured player.

But other than that they did fine on the sideline lol :P

ormond lad

Davin Stand wrote: »

I would not expect any of these players to go on to the Under 21 panel. Young players need time to develop and many good players development has been slowed by being promoted at too young an age. 2 or 3 (maximum) might make next year's Under 21 panel. I never pay a lot of attention to what happened at Under 16 or Under 17. I would think that over confidence or complacency was much more of a factor last night than any hangover from Under 16 or Under 17 days. Management also need to look at their own poor performance.

Really?? Again without having seen the game but a considerable number who played for Tipperary this week will play at 21s and above and some will play under 21 next year.
Young Players do need time to develop which is why statements like the youngsters who represented tipp this week lacked bottle are ridiculous.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

I would not expect any of these players to go on to the Under 21 panel. Young players need time to develop and many good players development has been slowed by being promoted at too young an age. 2 or 3 (maximum) might make next year's Under 21 panel. I never pay a lot of attention to what happened at Under 16 or Under 17. I would think that over confidence or complacency was much more of a factor last night than any hangover from Under 16 or Under 17 days. Management also need to look at their own poor performance.

Colm O'Riordan will definitely u21 play next year and Tom Kirwan will be on the panel at the very least. We'd be mental not to bring O'Riordan through. He has been on the minors at both codes since he was 15 and he must be 6 foot 5. As tough as they come and an almighty fielder of the ball. He nearly beat Limerick on his own last night. A huge huge talent

The Woodcock

premierstone wrote: »

As usual a complete knee jerk reaction on here when Tipp are beaten, did ye ever stop and think for a second that maybe, just maybe Limerick were the better team and thats why they won, well that and a fairly dubious penalty!

Its no wonder Tipp supporters have a reputation in other counties of been arrogant going by some of the rubbish that gets posted here, fact is Limerick are last years u16 AI champs and u17 runners up, they are a bloody good team, and Eamon Cregan can pick and choose any team he wants in Limerick and beyond and decided to get involved with these lads, they knew full well in Limerick what they had and fair play to them they have a couple of smashing hurlers.

Lads here sitting behind a keyboard spouting about desire and commitment, fcuk off! Ye haven't a clue the sacrifices these guys have made and will make again they live and breed the game, and no one will be feeling as low as these guys this morning.

The whole point of an internet discussion board is that people sitting behind a keyboard can give their views on any issue. If you can't grasp that basic fact, I'd respectfully suggest that you're the one who should **** off.

This bull**** line about 'ye haven't a clue about the sacrifices these lads make' being trotted out ... the implication is, of course, that you are the man who knows it all about commitment and everyone else is blind to what inter-county players put in. Rubbish.

Saying Limerick were simply 'the better team' is glossing over last night's defeat. The question 'why were Limerick the better team?' is a legitimate one. And it was apparent to anyone who was at the game that when the game was there to be won, Limerick showed greater mettle and that's the reason they came out on top.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i think its incredibly harsh to question the bottle of kids tbh and very unjust as well. If they got hammered it would be bad enough to do it but we are doing it despite only losing by a goal ffs. A solitary score.

And Limerick were outstanding to their credit. They took some lovely scores and never let us out of their sight. Hell 2005, Paidi and Brendan Maher, etc were part of a minor side who were stuffed by Limerick. In 2002, Conor O'Mahony was a minor in a Tipp team who were trounced by Kilkenny in the minor All Ireland final. To suggest that some of our lads wont progress based on one close defeat is a lazy idiotic suggestion in my opinion.

I can understand the current slating that some of the seniors are getting because quite frankly its evident from their inabiltiy to win primary possession that for all their experience they are lacking aggression and desire greatly. Ive been one the critics on this site and quite frankly i stand by everything i said.

Though i wont join in in any criticising of teenagers. You could put the same two teams against each other at minor level in ten consecutive occasions and it could produce ten different results and that has the way minor hurling has always been

ReacherCreature

People questioning minors "bottle" and "passion" is silly. These are 16, 17, 18 year olds, they don't deserve withering criticism that the seniors get.

For what its worth it, I thought the lads showed "bottle" and "passion" in good amounts. We lost to a very sharp Limerick team. Let it be.

premierstone

The Woodcock wrote: »

The whole point of an internet discussion board is that people sitting behind a keyboard can give their views on any issue. If you can't grasp that basic fact, I'd respectfully suggest that you're the one who should **** off.

You have 8 posts in this thread in 13 months each one of them more negative that the previous, and you call that having a discussion, looks more like an agenda to me. Where were you for all the victories we had in this time, must have been killing you to see us actually win??

I think I will take your suggestion on board because I'm sick of the muck that gets posted on here by lads dying to stick the knife in, if you want to know whats wrong with Tipp hurling take a good long look in the mirror.

Slan agus Beannacht.

ReacherCreature

premierstone wrote: »

Slan agus Beannacht.

Don't be hasty to leave, premierstone. Stick around. For what it's worth you're one of the more valued and deeply informative posters on this thread.

Paddico

Does anyone have any thoughts on th Football tomorrow?

Paddico

Paddico wrote: »

Does anyone have any thoughts on th Football tomorrow?

Cant see Galway being so bad this time around in front of their home crowd tbh especially after the fallout of their defeat to bitter rivals Mayo....They'll have a handy time getting back on the road to redemption tomorrow.

I hope im wrong but I have little faith in us this year as we've been dross and have taken considerable steps backwards. Defeat at home to Carlow really fúcked up our whole league campaign and the performance and attitude that we took down to Killarney was abysmal to say the least.

Paddico

I have to agree with everything you said, Carlow was the beginning of disaster for the season. I will be a great achievement if we win tomorrow but cant see it happening.
Havent seen the team sheet but whats in our favour is Galways confidence is very low and they maybe without Meehan, their best player against Mayo.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

You have 8 posts in this thread in 13 months each one of them more negative that the previous, and you call that having a discussion, looks more like an agenda to me. Where were you for all the victories we had in this time, must have been killing you to see us actually win??

I think I will take your suggestion on board because I'm sick of the muck that gets posted on here by lads dying to stick the knife in, if you want to know whats wrong with Tipp hurling take a good long look in the mirror.

Slan agus Beannacht.

The lads dying to stick the knife in are in a minority. Most of the posters here are making a legitimate complaint as to why a team who looked set to be all an conquering force from winning the 2010 title, have regressed at such an alarming rate and i think its a fair query especially as this seems to be happening nearly after each time we win an All Ireland.
Why does another county a few miles east possess such hunger and we cant at the very least match it every year? I could take losing but seeing lads back down and wimp out of a challenge, 12 months after beating the same team by 8 points, its very disheartening altogether

I dont see anything wrong with at least posing the question and if you had to live on the Kilkenny border watching the neighbours win title after title while a few of our lads it would appear are still dining off one medal, then maybe you could get a sense of the frustration also.

As much as i hate to criticise O'Shea, its worth noting that last night both Colin Fennelly and Lester Ryan were dropped off the Kilkenny 15, whereas under-performing players will probably continue to captain this county.

And quite frankly i dont think Tipp supporters are unique in criticising the team. You frequent the Arsenal forum enough to know that fans are fans and live vicariously through the fortunes of their team. Might be fickle but its the reality of the situation. Hell even Cody and Alex Ferguson has often had question marks over their head from time whether they had taken Kilkenny or Man United as far as they respectively could.

Sport is judged on the legacy of results.

digzy

Deleted User wrote: »

the performance and attitude that we took down to Killarney was abysmal to say the least.

I have this little tale from one of the footballers from just after the final whistle.
Two players were having a pop at each other after the Kerry game.just verbals.
Another player intervened stating "ah lads relax, no need for that. It's only a game".

The lad I know was disgusted. He'd bust his balls training all year and was gutted.

While you've to appreciate the 'peacemaker' here, it also shows a poor mentality I think. It's a little harsh to criticise the whole team. They're not all hopeless.

the player

Lads we need to get real here. These guys senior or minor love to play hurling. sure what the sacrifices club hurlers make. Lots of players would die to wear the blue and gold at any level. We know they make sacrifices, but thats their choice. Supporters have every right to be critical. With regard to the seniors, there are a good few that could do with dying for the jersey.
I just dont see the point of training five nights a week, not to leave everything on the field. Your wasting your time if you are not giving 100 per cent at senior level. When's the last time we could honestly say Tipperary were at their very best. 2010 is three years ago, thats a long time to be trying to re-discover your appetite. Stop making excuses for them, if they were that sick about losing, their attitude would be very different indeed. They were slammed all last year for a shambolic display against Kilkenny. What response have they given? Limping out of munster in the first match. They can shut me and every critic in the country up, if they really want too.
Wheres their passion? time for them to let their hurling do the talking, instead of those sound bites we hear about, Hurt, and disappointed etc. Its time for Tipperary to stand up and be counted. No excuses from players, managers, or supporters anymore.

Moyorris

Minor teams,by nature,lose very important players year to year because of age(i.e Thomas Hamill and Tadgh Gallagher,to name two.)It's never easy to put two together.

Moyorris

I would expect Galway to win fairly easily,with home advantage and having a good Tradition in football.

Davin Stand

Team to play Galway announced. Paul Fitzgerald, Andrew Morrissey, Paddy Codd, Donal Lynch, Brian Fox, John Coghlan, Donagh Leahy, Lorcan Egan, Stephen O'Brien, Philip Austin, Peter Acheson, Ian Fahey, Conor Sweeney, Philip Quirke, George Hannigan. Badly hit by injuries with Ciaran McDonald a huge loss.

the player

Agreed, I think Galway will win. Our senior football team has become a major dissopointment. The performance against kerry was dismal to be honest.

tippspur

the player wrote: »

Agreed, I think Galway will win. Our senior football team has become a major dissopointment. The performance against kerry was dismal to be honest.

True,if we lose to Galway at least go down with a fight.